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Welcome back gang to our third and final show honoring Sal Buscema. In this show, we are answering your written questions from our message board. And we pick up with artist Ron Frenz commenting on the current state of the comic book industry.

Before we continue Brad, if I may, because nobody asked me what I thought about the last question and the last question, because I’m invisible (Laughter) but anyway…

That’s because Tom talks so damn much…(Laughter) God…I thought he would never shut up (Laughter)

I think Tom’s answer was very politic in that, not to criticize what’s going on today, because I think that’s very valid. I do think that some of the long time readers, I think what they are noticing is the real difference is the complete lack of mass-market thinking. Comics are very very different animal now from what they were in the seventies, eighties and even the nineties, when we had newsstands presence and we were more of a mass-market media. Now, we’re very…you know, we’re right up there with poetry as a cottage industry.

Yeah, that nobody reads.

Yeah, we’re a vanity press now and we have a very limited potential market because we are not really doing enough to expand it so the thinking that goes into comics and the approach that goes into the characters, and everything from the ground up is very different from what it was in what people consider the hayday of comics, and some of those long-time readers are remembering. It’s like comparing apples and oranges to a large degree. I’m finding it challenging to consider the differences and especially looking down the barrel of possibly moving beyond Spider-Girl because I’m more interested in experimenting in different ways, in mass-market ways and I have to catch myself and say, you’re going to have to find the market for that, if you’re thinking mass-market, because comics is just art and it’s a very very different animal and I think that has a lot to do with what people are reacting to when they make comments like that last caller, they make observations like that last caller, is that it has really become an issue of comparing apples and oranges. And because, I came in in the eighties and I’ve been doing this for like what, twenty-five, twenty-six years now and just in the time I’ve been in the industry, there’s been a shift. I thank God I got in while there was still mass market because those are the comics I remember, you know, I grew up on mass market and I got to get in on mass market, I got to enjoy the mass market on Thor, and I got to enjoy the mass market to a large degree on some other titles. Now, it is a very different animal, there is no denying that, but it doesn’t make it any less valid if you just need to recognize that you are entertaining a slightly different audience and a more…

(Interrupts) A much smaller audience.

Yeah, it’s a smaller and more laser-pointed audience, you know, and that’s what the editors have to understand now and they’re reacting to a different demand that we had back in the day, and that’s all I have to say about that.

I thought Tom was bad…(Laughter). I didn’t think that was ever gonna end.

Well, Sal, as if you didn’t have enough fans, we have some that have written you questions on the message board. We have Capple2000, is his handle and he’s from Brazil.

Oh my gosh.

He says: “how do you feel about Spider-Girl’s cancellation? I loved your collaboration with Ron and Tom and I’ll miss it a lot”.

I’m sick. I gonna throw up because of the cancellation. I think it’s unfortunate because I think it’s just a wonderful book. Luckily we’re going to be continuing in the Spider-Man Family book. When is our first issue coming out, do you guys know?

Spider-Man Family. It’s gonna be…our last issue comes out in March and the first issue of Spider-Man Family comes out in April.

In April okay. Luckily, we’re continuing there but I am really upset that the book has been cancelled because I think that’s a phenomenal book.

And his other question is: “do you have any new projects that you will draw? I really hope so.” I’ve noticed that you did some variant covers on Amazing and the Hulk recently.

Well that was…I’m really gratified to say that was kind of a celebration of my fortieth anniversary with Marvel. They ask me to do those four covers, which personally I wasn’t thrilled with…I mean the covers that I did…I was thrilled with the fact that they asked me to do it. That was the reason for it and I’m not gonna be doing any penciling. If anyone wants me to ink, I’m more than happy to do it, but I’m not gonna do anymore penciling, because as I’ve said so many times, penciling is work and inking is a lot of fun, and inking is not work, it’s a joy. I’m at a point in my life where I don’t want to do stuff that is hard anymore…I want to do stuff that’s easy. (Laughter)

Spidermanhero12, he doesn’t say where he’s from but he wants to asks your opinion about the Spider-Man movies. What did you think of them?

I thought they were phenomenal. Not only did they capture the characters beautifully, especially in number one, and also number two. I thought number three was a little bit of a thumb down, although I still think it was a pretty good film. But the first two, I thought, were just phenomenal. I just enjoyed them immensely and I thought they were just flat-out good movie making. They really did a good job.

Matthisleanheart and his location, he says, through the doors to the darkness. (Laughter) How weird.

Oh my gosh…(Laughter)

That’s where he’s from. (Laughter)

I hate to hear the question. (Laughter)

I know, get ready. (Laughter) He says: “first off, congratulations on forty wonderful years”.

(Interrupts) Well, thank you very much.

Do you have any great convention stories you can tell us? Do you have any funny ones from conventions that you’ve been through?

One that comes to mind and one that I’ve never forgotten. There are always something happening at conventions. You meet so many wonderful people but then you meet a weirdo or two. The one that comes to mind, I believe this may have been in Lansing Michigan, a young man came up, and I was doing my free head sketches for everybody and he asked me to do a head sketch of Mary Jane Watson. And I said: “Sure, I’ll be happy do it”. And then he kept telling me that: “I’m so in love with Mary Jane; I would love to marry her”. And I just kept my head down and I thought to myself: “huh, excuse me, she’s a comic book character, you can’t marry a comic book character”. And this kid was very strange and I did the sketch very quickly and I said: “here, I hope you like it”. He said: “Oh, I love it, I’m gonna go home and frame it”. I said: “Oh my gosh”. This was very strange.

Did he say frame it or did he say laminate it? (Laughter)

Oh God…(Laughter)

I know he wanted to do something else with it. (Laughter)

Sal, do you go to many conventions anymore?

The last one I did was, I’m happy to say was the Pittsburgh convention…was that last year guys?

Yeah. I did it like two or three years ago and you did last year.

Yeah.

I know I had done it earlier. That was the last one that I did and happily both Ron and Tom were there and we spent a lot, I hope, quality time together. It was as far as I was concerned; they would probably disagree. I’m kind of cutting that out, here again, because I’m at that point in my life where – conventions are hard work, they really are; you’re really under the gun, you’re trying to get as many people in as possible, you’re autographing books and doing sketches and it’s really tough to do and I just gotten to that point where I think I’ve done very many of them and I kind of want to end it now. Nothing lasts forever, so that’s where we are.

You could do a convention like we’re doing right now, talking to the fans. That’s…(inaudible)

As long as I get time to eat. (Laughter)

You know Sal, you know what might help the convention go a little easier for you is, like the first time we met, is just do it hopped up on goofballs like I did the first time you came into Pittsburgh.

Oh…(Laughter) (inaudible) …reason for that though…

I was passing the kidney stones and I was doped up on painkillers.

The poor guy was…(inaudible)

It was quite a weekend! It was quite a weekend!

And he wanted a frame picture of Mary Jane didn’t he? (Laughter)

Yeah, and I got this great picture of Mary Jane from Sal, and I laminated it and I married it. (Laughter)

And he married her right! (Laughter).

And occasionally, she cuts me just like some of her writers. (Laughter)

And the person that married them said: “I now pronounced you husband and cartoon right”.

Man and Sal Buscema sketch.

And Sal Buscema sketch right! (Laughter)

We’re going to Scotland for the next one. FunnyK says…

(Interrupts) You should have to do the accents Brad.

(Making Scottish Accent) We’re going to bloody Scotland and his bloody question is: “What is your favorite artist from the current flock?”.

The current flock?

Ooh…

The current flock…the new kids.

To be very honest to you, I don’t have the foggiest clue about the current flock. I don’t know who is doing what so I can’t answer that question intelligently. I really don’t know.

Ron, who do you like from the current flock?

I don’t know what you’d consider a current flock because a lot of the guys that stuff I enjoy have been around for a while. I think Ed McGuiness does some really nice stuff. I’m a big Mike Mignola fan. You know, Sal would consider me the current flock and I’ve been doing this for…

(Interrupts) Mike is, how old is Mike?

He’s been around for like forever. And Ed McGuiness has been around for quite a while now too.

Yeah, yeah.

But those are the kind of guys that I look out for. I’m probably in the same kind of boat with Sal as far as like the new crop of guys. I don’t know them by name and probably can’t tell them apart as well as I could with people I grew up with, that kind of thing.

His next question is: “Have you ever been to Scotland, Sal?”

(Feigning a Scottish Accent) No, I’ve never been to Scotland. (Laughter)

Now, there’s an accent. (Laughter)

(Inaudible) …fake my accent. (Laughter)

Okay, I’m gonna do an accent now…this guy is from Illinois.

It’s the (Inaudible) coming out in me here.

I’m gonna do an accent now…this guy is from Illinois. Just kidding. Lockdown from Illinois asks: “What’s your favorite Avenger or your favorite MC-2 to work on Sal?”

Huh…my favorite Avenger…good grief…I don’t know…I loved them all…I hated them all.

Scare everybody and say the Thing.

You don’t like the Thing?

Well, yeah, was he an Avenger though? He’s Fantastic Four.

(Hard to hear) He was a West Coast Avenger.

That’s what I was saying…scare everybody!

He was a West Coast Avenger.

I love the Thing!! (Laughter)

He was a West Coast Avenger.

I’m sorry. (Laughter) It went right over my head there Ron.

Tom is saying that he was a West Coast Avenger.

Oh stop it Tom…Reed and Sue were Avengers too Chico. (Laughter)

(Inaudible) …Walt Simonson…

They were? When did this happen? Nobody told me about this.

This was years ago. Walt Simonson brought them in.

1988, Issue 300, Avengers.

Oh my God. Fantastic.

Crazy Chris…

Thank you Brad.

I’m not here just for looks. (Laughter) Just kidding…that’s why it’s a radio show. (Laughter) Crazy Chris from Boulder, Colorado: “What was the last comic book you read, other than those you personally worked on, and what did you think about it?”

Oh Sal, that’s loaded.

The last book I read was probably Spectacular Spider-Girl number…whatever is the latest issue…I can’t remember what number I’ve got.

He said: “besides the ones you worked on”.

That I did not work on?

That you did not work on

Oh my Gosh, it was probably an EC comic back in the fifties, sometimes.

(Laughing) Oh man!

I have a question for you Sal: when you did those four covers, did they send you issues, did you read the issues that they sent you for reference or did you just look at reference?

I think they send me one comic, one issue, I think it was a Captain America; I’d rather not comment on it. Otherwise, I got single pages of references for the other characters.

So EC comics, Crazy Chris, that was his last comics.

Believe it or not, as best I can recall, that’s probably the last comic that I read that I did not work on. And as I said, it was probably when I was a young teenager back in the fifties sometimes.

We don’t get comps anymore so you gotta go by what you go by these days.

That’s right…that’s right

Viper, from Johannesburg, South Africa, has a question for you.

Wow.

Was there much of a challenge drawing Spider-Man in the Romita style to changing to a more McFarlane style in Spectacular Spider-Man in the late eighties and early nineties?

Was it more of a challenge? Well, I will admit to the fact that I was definitely influenced by John Romita (Sr.), no question about it. John had, well I guess he had done Amazing for quite a few years, I loved his Spider-Man, and I considered John Romita Sr., Junior is a phenomenal artist too, but John Romita Sr., to my mind, is probably one of the most underrated artists in the business, he was a terrific draftsman, he was a wonderful storytelling, drew absolutely gorgeous women. And, when I first started doing Spider-Man, yes, I was definitely influenced by John and I learned an awful lot just by looking at his work. However, I have say this, anybody that sees any familiarities between my work and Todd MacFarlane’s, huh, I don’t know what to say because I’ve never been influenced by Todd MacFarlane and I don’t think there was anything remotely resembling working in the Todd MacFarlane style.

Okay, no, to be fair to the questioner, did at any point when you were on those books during that period of time, did your editor come to you and asked how do you feel about going to the spaghetti webbing, and bigger eyes, and all that kind of stuff.

Oh okay, I’m sorry, I probably should have mentioned that. Who was the editor I get?

Salicrup.

Jim Salicrup.

Yeah, Jim Salicrup called me one day and I think he had also called, or was going to call Alex Saviuk, because I was doing Spectacular Spider-Man and Alex was doing Web of Spider-Man. And he asked us if we would have any objections to doing the more intricate webbing that Todd MacFarlane did and also the bigger eyes and also what Ron refers to as the spaghetti webbing. Both Alex and I said absolutely not, if it’ll help sales, we’ll draw on our heads, it doesn’t matter. If that’s the influence the questioner is referring to, then yes, I suppose I did work in the Todd MacFarlane style to that extent, but as far as the style of drawing, illustrating, there’s really no similarities. I have to keep hopping back to that. My apologies to the questioners.

Danman007…

(Interrupted) Not at all Sal. The other thing that was interesting is that it was back when they were still some concerns with consistency too.

Yeah, that’s true.

These days, it’s unheard of, that an editor would call you and say: “this is the kind of look we’re going for, we’d like to make it consistent, do you mind?”, that kind of thing, or even have that conversation. It doesn’t really happen much anymore.

Yeah, excellent point Ron. That’s true…that’s when we were still concerned with consistency. That was something that came from Stan Lee. He was an absolute nut for consistency and it followed through for very many years but evidently it no longer applies.

Danman007 is from the Grand Cayman…

(Interrupts) Where do they get these names? (Laughter)

It’s their handle Sal.

They’re handles…this is like CB radio.

Danman007

You can tell how totally ignorant I am about this stuff…go ahead.

We’re going to the Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands for this next one.

Fantastic.

He’s probably a money launderer. (Laughter)

His avatar is the Joker, so who knows? What is the most important objective when penciling or inking a comic in terms of presentation?

Oh my gosh…

What is the most important what?

Objective when penciling or inking a comic in terms of presentation?

Oh okay.

I’m not sure I understand the question. It’s to do the best job you possibly can.

I’ll take a stab at it.

Go ahead Ron.

I’ll take a stab at it.

In penciling, I think the most important objective is storytelling, clear storytelling.

But in terms of presentation…go ahead.

In terms of presentation, I think, in most cases, it’s far more important to tell the story clearly than to dazzle people with how you draw bricks, toes, or hands, or woman, or anything else.

Right.

As far as inking Sal, I mean, specifically what would you say is the most important objective of inking.

Ron, you and I have had this discussion many time and I have a very simple philosophy that governs my inking, and that is to be, especially if you have the opportunity to work with some really good pencillers, guys who can draw, and it is the inker’s job, I have always felt and will always feel, to my dying days, that it is to the inker to be as faithful to the penciller as possible. That’s what I wanted inkers to do with my work and that’s what I do with your work or anyone else I have the opportunity to ink. It’s to be as faithful to the penciller, especially if the penciller happens to be an outstanding talent such as yourself. With this caveat, for a period of time, and this also happened at Marvel, but for a period of time, for the couple of years I worked at DC, when I was working with the Batman guys, they would ask me to ink a job of, say, a new youngster that was trying to break into the business. And, a lot of times, the drawing wasn’t the best in the world, but they showed potential and showed some storytelling ability and the way the editors would put it to me, they would say: “Sal, do you think you can tweak it a little bit. That was their favorite word. Can you tweak it a little bit? In other words, improve it a little bit with the inking. That is the only time and only under those circumstances that I was specifically requested to change things without overwhelming the penciller’s pencils. It happened several times at Marvel; I won’t say who the pencillers were but it did happen there too. But those were the only circumstances under which I would do that; otherwise I remained faithful to the penciller.

Sal, we have one more question and we have one more compliment from the board and then we’ll wrap it up. I appreciate you guys being on the line for so long. You guys are doing great.

Sure.

Sam Kirby, doesn’t list where he’s from but he says: “You’re great and long run on Spectacular Spider-Man is one of my prized possession in my collection and I wish you were still at it today on Spectacular”. That’s a compliment from Sam.

Well, thank you so much Sam. I appreciate it. If you’re listening…would he be listening right now?

Not now.

Now now, when I edit it and post it, he’ll listen.

He’ll listen, okay.

He’ll get it. My last one is from Michael Bailey and he’s from Fayetteville, Georgia, he’s a good friend from the website. He says: “Hey Sal, Happy Anniversary!”

Well, thank you Michael.

“Early happy birthday wishes as well. I have admired your work for many years and while I liked your take on Spider-Man, I was always more partial to your run on the Incredible Hulk. What did you like about drawing the Hulk and what didn’t you like about the assignment?”

There was nothing that I disliked about the assignment. I loved the character, I still love the character, and I will always love the character because he is so unique in the annals of superheroes. There is no other superhero like him. He was just so much fun to do; I just had an absolute blast working on the Hulk. If I ever had to do any penciling again, if somebody asked me to do the Hulk, I might consider it. It would take me a month or two to decide but that’s how much I love the character. That’s pretty much the best that I can do with that answer. I just love the character and it was just a joy to work on. I was also blessed with working with some terrific writers also.

Before we go, let’s give a final word to Tom and Ron and Sal you get the last word. Tom, wrap it up, what do you think of Sal’s forty years at Marvel?

Oh my gosh, I was afraid of this. (Laughter)

Here it comes. (Laughter)

Who are we talking about? (Laughter)

For the past two and a half hours Tom.

What I want to know is did you finish your pizza? (Laughter)

Oh yeah yeah, I got a calzone left if you want some. (Laughter)

Yeah, save it for me. (Laughter)

Okay.

Final words Tom, what do you think?

Like so many of the listeners and the people that have called in, and people who hear this tape, this podcast, whatever you call it. I’ve always been a big fan of Sal’s art. It is just one of the job’s perks that I get to actually work with this guy. I love the fact that, as Danny Fingeroth has stated, and Ron Frenz too, Sal is a guy that is constantly trying to get better, which I think s something all of us have to do to remain current. It is, you know, so wonderful to be able to work with a guy who is constantly pushing himself and consequently pushing you to do the best work that you can, because the readers deserve our best so we’re always trying to do it and Sal, it really has been a big pleasure.

Thank you very much Tom. I have my final words for you too buddy. (Laughter)

Ron, wrap it up, what do you think?

Let’s see, is there anything I haven’t said before. You know, like I said, what’s great for me in a situation like this and why I’m so happy to be part of it. We live in a situation today with the podcast and with people interacting with their fans a little bit more and everything. And, it was even happening when I first started in the business, that comics are popular enough in their little fan base, that people had egos about what they were doing and how they should be treated and we had prima Donnas and superstars and people who acted like complete jackasses about a job where nobody cares, like the local grocery store, that you draw “fill in the blank” character, you know. And it was always amazing to me. Sal is from a time where these guys did their work, got their paychecks, fed their families, enjoyed their lives and moved on. I’m gratified that Sal hung in there long enough, that he, getting to here, how much enjoyment his work over the years has been bought by so many different people. When he and I had conversations like this, he seems genuinely surprised and gratified that, you know, wow you guys are really paying attention to this stuff and that sort of thing. And I think it’s great for him to hear this kind of thing, because he’s the farthest thing from a Prima Donna, or, you now, having that kind of treatment, or that kind of thing. Anybody who comes into this industry and does a few issues or something and struts around like a peacock needs to take a lesson from a guy like Sal, who, you know, Sal makes it cool for me to be a journeyman. The guys that I admire, the guys that I grew up paying attention to, like the Romitas and the Buscemas, Kirby became a superstar later, you know, when people started noticing the amount of work he was doing. What made Kirby so admirable in the day was that he produced and that his books sold. And that is a very journeyman-type of an attitude to take and what we do, I often said, is a craft and there are objective standards of what’s good and bad, and you strive to do the job well. And Sal has been a continuation for me in my great luck in meeting the people whose work I admired and getting to finally meet them, and have them be incredible gentlemen, incredibly giving of whatever information they had to pass on, having no ego whatsoever, in “let me tell you something kid”, you know, that kind of thing. The craziest thing for me is that you have a conversation with Sal and he treats you like an equal because, you know, not just on a personal level, but on a professional level. And, you know, I think I’ve said once before, maybe even on your podcast, from the time I was eight years old, I wanted to grow up and be Sal Buscema and now at forty-eight I still would love to grow up and be Sal Buscema (Sal laughs at this comment). If you ever been lucky enough to meet his lovely wife, and hear him talk about his family, and everything, nobody could hope for more. It’s been a pleasure and a joy from beginning to end.

And Sal, you got the last word.

Oh my gosh.

Did I surprised you pretty good? We got some big names on today.

Wow, the whole thing has blown me away, Brad and I thank you very much for it. I’m sorry it took so long to finally getting around to doing it but that’s because of my crazy schedule. This has just been a phenomenal experience. I don’t know what else to say. First of all, to be on here with Ron and Tom, who are not only colleagues, who I consider my good friends and I hope they feel the same way and I kind of think they do. To hear the kind words that have been said about me today, Ron cuts the pie just now, when I got into the business, I did it because, as I’ve said before, it was something I really wanted to do, something that I enjoyed so much, that I wanted to do from the time I was a kid. And to be able to see it turn out the way it has turned out, the way this forty years has flown by, and I mean flown by, and then to hear all these wonderful things said about you, frankly, I find it overwhelming, I really do, and I’m not just saying that (inaudible) but the truth. It’s been a fantastic career and the thing that I’m doing now is winding down a little bit, but winding down in such a wonderful way because I have the opportunity to work with two of…two of the consummate professionals in the business. I mean, they’re two and again, this is not rhetoric, I have said this to their faces before, and I mean every word of it; they are two outstanding and extraordinary talents. And to be able to work on a book with these guys is just an absolute joy, and to have it culminate in something like this, this podcast, and hearing from friends from the past, Stan, Roy, Danny, I’m sorry we missed Mark, to be able to talk fans and answer their questions…I hope I did an adequate job. This has just been a phenomenal experience and Brad I thank you very much for it.

No problem.

I don’t know what else I can say. I’m just happy to have been here, more than you know.

Well, you really lived up to your nickname of Our Pal Sal.

(Laughter) That’s because you don’t know me!

He’s never been hustled by you anyway. (Laughter)

The way you have, huh Ron. (Laughter)

And that wraps up our two and a half hour conversation honoring Sal Buscema. I want to personally thank everyone who called in or wrote questions. Also a big thanks to Sal for so many wonderful stories he’s given us over the years. I look forward to reading his work in Amazing Spider-Man Family with his good buddies, Ron Frenz and Tom DeFalco. I have to say in my three years of this podcast, this has been my all-time favorite to do, so thanks to everyone involved. Before we go, I want to thank mailordercomics.com for sponsoring us. If you like to check out more of Sal’s work, you can pick up Essential Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man Volume 3. The cover price of $16.99 and mailordercomics.com has it for $10.53. I’m your host Brad Douglas, thanks so much for listening and visiting the Spider-Man Crawl Space Dot Com.