ID'ing the Tiger, Goat or Heart of the Beast
Subject: [gto2] Dealer number question
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 20:21:12 +0200
From: erix
Got a question; my GP was sold in California, in the surroundings of Truckee, dealer code is
23/379. Have looked at Sean's code page, no luck...anyone out there got a clue?
BTW, did ride some GTO today. The guy who bought my parts car got it running. Everything went
nice, except some ticking sound from right side head. Turned out to be a broken valve spring,
otherwise it ran great. This is his first "real" car, and if it wasn't for the fact that he got
ears, I'll think his would crack in two parts;-).
Hmmm, got to get up to speed with my own goat, full-size is nice and all, but it is to slow....
Erik
Subject: [gto2] [gto] Re: Dealer number question
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:11:53 EDT
From: Framair
<< Got a question; my GP was sold in California, in the surroundings of Truckee, dealer code is
23/379. Have looked at Sean's code page, no luck...anyone out there got a clue? >>
...Supposedly, PHS has a 'Master List' of all Pontiac Dealers/Zones/Codes.
Once upon a time there was talk of 'Dealer/Zone Decoding' being included with the Billing
History Package ($35). Now it seems, the only way to get the Dealer/Zone Decoded is to pay
another $20 for the 'New and Improved' Triple AAA Enterprises/PHS Window Sticker Reproduction.
(Gee, I sorta like the FREE on-line Listing that Sean Mattingly is doing better)
Subject: [gto2] [gto] Re: [Re: Dealer number question]
Date: 24 Jul 99 19:31:20 PDT
From: Scott Holten
Can anyone confirm that this dealer info is provided with the PHS window sticker reproductions?
I will be able to provide some more Zone/Dealer info when I send for it on the LeMans because I
have the original purchase agreement from the dealership....just need the PHS billing history
now.
I have been trying to find out dealer code info from the "Older" local Pontiac Dealers. They
have not been any help with the exception of one of them giving me a number for GM customer
service. I found out from them that they could not provide this info any longer because the
dealer codes changed from 3 digit to a 5 digit code in '70 or '71 and they simply can’t go back
that far.
I happen to have (or will have soon) all this info on both my Pontiacs and I think that it is
neat info to know but, I was just curious why it is as important as it is to the rest of you
fellow car nuts?
Scott
'67 GTO
'72 Luxury LeMans 2dr
Subject: [gto2] Engine ID?
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 17:32:32 PDT
From: "Joshua Scholfield"
Hey everyone....
I got my 455 back from the builder's a few days ago, and am just now getting around to
building it up from a short block. In the course of looking for torque specs, I noticed my
Chilton's says it might be an SD motor.
The guy who gave me the motor said he thought it was from a '73 Grandville. It is
definitely a 455 (cast on side of block). Date code, by the distributor hole, is F083. This
should be June 08, '73 AFIK. Now the interesting part: code on the front right of the block is
874620 over XA, near the deck, and there is what looks like 23p413873 stamped vertically by the
crank gear. Any clues what the real origin of this motor is? At this point, it doesn’t really
matter whether it is an SD block or not, but I'm kind of curious to find out. My
Chilton's manual lists the "X" code for '73 455's as being Super Duty, so now my curiosity has
definitely been piqued.
Josh the StreetRod God
Subject: [gto2] [gto] Re: GTO Identification Help!!
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:38:30 EDT
From: Framair
<< From: (Bruce Jackson)
I am in the process of purchasing a 1965 GTO Convertible...and I am trying to confirm that it
is in fact a GTO.
VIN 23767P301111
Body Tag 05C
ST 65-23767 PON10762
TR 213-B N-2
W 2LP
4F 5NW
Bruce J
Michigan >>
....Bruce, based on the research I was involved with several years ago while working on the '64
GTO REGISTRY, I can assure you that the "5N" code on the Trim Tag does in fact denote the GTO
option for ALL 64-65 GTOs built at the PON or KAN Assembly Plant. Exactly what it means, no one
knows for sure.
Speculation is that it was for body related modifications for the GTO option.
I've yet to come across a fully documented GTO in this category that does NOT have the "5N" nor
have I seen a LeMans with this Accessory Code.
John Schuh
GENERATION-1
Firebird Registry
64 GTO Registry
Subject: [gto2] RE: 455 HO
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:00:14 CST
From: Oliver Twisted
<< Hey, what's the difference between a 1970 455 and a 455 HO? I'm
Is this a round port engine - the same one used in the '70 Judge? >>
I don't have my references in front of me but the '70 "H.O." is different than the '71-72 "HO".
One big difference is that it's a D-port (#64) engine; the only round-port heads available in
'70 were the RA IVs.
<< Am I alone in thinking that the '69-'72 GPs are cool? Don'tcha just >>
There are several '69-72 owners on the Pontiac list.
<< Now I just have to convince the wife that I need another Pontiac. >>
Always the hardest part!!
Brad
Subject: [gto2] Re: 455 HO
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:33:23 PDT
From: "Joshua Scholfield"
The 455 HO in the '70 GP's was a D-port. If it has round port heads on it, I'd say snap it
up for the motor and figure out whether it's original later. Either way you end up with a set
of round port heads, if not a RA-IV or (unlikely) some type of factory freak. If it is an SJ,
then it could have come with the 455, but AFIK they only put 400's in the model J. If it is the
original motor it will have the displacement (400 or 455) cast into the driver side of the block
towards the front. You may be able to see it from under the car, or you can feel for it from
above. If it does end up being round port heads on a 455 motor, I'd be really careful about
trusting the internal condition of the motor, because as far as I can recall they only made the
round port heads for the 400, so compression would be through the roof.
In any case, I would recommend getting the car if it's in good shape.
These cars were WAY under appreciated, performance-wise. I had a '70 GP a few years back with
the 400 (model J), and it was the best driver I have ever owned. With a shift kit, B&M
converter, a little head work, and lots of Edelbrock and aftermarket parts I had it running in
the high 11's and still used it as a daily driver. I wish I could get another. Or better yet, a
'69 with 390 hp 428 and a 4-speed. I think most of the mechanical parts, suspension, etc. are
directly interchangeable with the A-body, too. But, as I know from experience, replacement body,
trim, and some interior stuff is next to impossible to find, so watch out for rust and bondo.
Gotta love the fact that as of 1970 it had the longest hood of any production automobile ever
(according to the magazine ads). Cool wrap-around dash and "aircraft-style cockpit" too.
Josh the StreetRod God
<< Is this a round port engine - the same one used in the '70 Judge? (only without the Ram Air
induction)
Is this a pretty rare motor?
My info shows that the '70 GPs came with a 400 4bbl and the SJ models got the 455. Optional was
the 370 hp 455 HO.
Am I alone in thinking that the '69-'72 GPs are cool? Don'tcha just love that jet cockpit and
the hood as long as an aircraft carrier? >>
Kinda like a deluxe stretched GTO.
<< Now I just have to convince the wife that I need another Pontiac.
Any info/help will be appreciated.
Bill
'69 Judge
'87 GP >>
Subject: [gto2] RE: 455 HO
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:47:27 EDT
From: DATHOE
That 455 HO will have 4-bolt main caps, the heads are #64 and 87 cc for about 10 to 1, 9799068
intake, and a ram air style q-jet (rectangle slots cut in secondary butterflies), the block code
is either WG for manual trans, or XF for auto trans.
Subject: [GTO] 65 GTO ?
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:13:07 -0400
From: Stingray
How can I tell if I'm looking at a 65 GTO or a 65 LeMans? Is there any way to tell just by
looking at the Vin and Trim tags?
David
66 GTO & (possibly 65 GTO Convert.)
Subject: Re: [GTO] 65 GTO ?
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:57:18 -0400
From: Stingray
Gary,
Thanks for the info..... now if I can just talk the present owner into letting me take the
interior apart.
David
Gary L. Travis wrote:
<< David,
No there is not. GTO did not become a Model until '66 with designation of 242. The only way on
a '64-5 is to find either the shipping order or the build sheet. Look under the seats, carpet
or over the top of glove box. I found mine stuffed into the springs in my back seat, another
copy was under the carpet, under the pass. side bucket. Only other way is to PHS document it.
Gary T.
64 GTO Htp.
75 455 Grand Am >>
Subject: Re: [GTO] 65 GTO ?
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:38:23 -0700
From: "Gary L. Travis"
Yeah, the guys on the line stuffed the build sheets in many places. Typically the shipping
orders were under the carpet somewhere. But, build sheets wound up, on top of gas tank, in
doors, under or in seats, up in the dash, even stuffed between frame rail and fuel or brake
lines. I have heard of as many as four build sheets in one car.
If the owner doesn't want to look for them, or hasn't already found them himself, maybe
you could get him to split the cost of PHS documentation in the deal.
Gary T,
64 GTO Htp.
75 455 Grand Am
Subject: Re: [GTO] 65 GTO ?
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:38:48 EDT
From: Bobgoat67
If the car was built in the Pontiac, MI plant (PON) or Kansas City plant (KAN) there should be
a "5N" on the trim tag on the firewall. It is my understanding that these were the only two
assembly plants that used the "5N' designation.
<< No there is not. GTO did not become a Model until '66 with designation of 242. The only way
on a '64-5 is to find either the shipping order or the
build sheet. Look under the seats,
carpet or over the top of glove box. I found mine stuffed into the springs in my back seat,
another copy was under the carpet, under the pass. side bucket. Only other way is to PHS
document it. >>
Subject: [GTO] 64-5 Build & Shipping order Sheets was 65 GTO?
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:48:51 -0700
From: "Gary L. Travis"
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. On the sheets at least from the Baltimore plant, there will be a
rubber stamped GTO in block letters. I do not know if this is the same from other plants.
Gary T.
64 GTO Htp.
75 455 Grand Am
Subject: Re: [GTO] 65 GTO ?
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:07:53 -0700
From: "Chris H."
Correct! My 64 GTO was built in Pontiac and has the 5N "GTO option" code.
Chris H.
----- Original Message -----
From: be a "5N" on the trim tag on the firewall. It is my understanding that these were the only two
assembly plants that used the "5N' designation. >>
Subject: [GTO] Tracking Ownership
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 09:46:24 -0500
From: "Robert J. Smith"
I just heard on the radio about a web site that will provide an ownership record of your car
for free, but didn't catch the address. Anybody know what it is?
Bob Smith
65 Convertible
Carol Stream, IL
Subject: Re: [GTO] Tracking Ownership
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:59:20 EDT
From: LemansSport469
Hi Bob,
Two things ...first - I don't know of the website, but if you ever find out please pass it on.
When I tried to find my '65 (back quite a few years) I had to petition a software program from
the State of Illinois because VIN numbers were not used to track autos until either 66 or 67.
This program would have to be written for my serial/vin number search and back then it would
cost $600.
Needless to say I did not do it, because if the car ended up being sold out of state ... they
did not track that.
Second - and not on subject ... are you aware you are sending files out with your e-mails?
Usually a sign of a virus, if you have a checker I would run it or update it.
Bruce
Subject: Re: [GTO] Tracking Ownership
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:18:43 -0400
From: Bad64Goat
It might be http://www.carfax.com
David
Subject: Re: [GTO] Tracking Ownership
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:20:39 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Funny. A co-worker just used this service to check out used cars he wanted to buy. He gets
unlimited use for two months. The kicker is that the VIN must be 17 digits or more, which means
nothing available before
1981. It does not return owners' names, just the state title number
and date when the transfer was effected.
Terry
Subject: RE: [GTO] Tracking Ownership
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:52:21 -0500
From: "Robert J. Smith"
Bruce - I'm sure you saw the carfax posts. I always appreciate the value of this list.
Regarding attachments: I was unaware but concerned. I downloaded the most recent McAfee DAT
file, ran a scan, and sent myself an email at my work email. No attachment. Please let me know
if you see it again.
Thanks. Bob
Subject: RE: [GTO] [Fwd: 1964 GTO Engine Code]
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:16:40 -0400
From: "Hancock, Bryan" <>
Gary,
Thanks a lot for your help! It'll be a lot easier to ascertain if the car really has the
original engine.
Bryan Hancock
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary L. Travis
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 2:51 AM
Subject: Re: [GTO] [Fwd: 1964 GTO Engine Code]
Bryan,
The engine code for a 64 is in the same place. On the flat pad below pass. side front, just
below the head, on block. Should look like this: 78X or 78XW with serial # below 123654
Date code of casting is on pad, back by distributor. ex: 21D4 would be 24th of April 1964.
Gary T.
64 GTO Htp.
75 455 Grand Am
<< Dude has a question. Please reply to him directly...
--
=== Sean Mattingly, The Ultimate GTO Picture Site
featuring 1964 through 1974 Pontiac GTO cars.
=== Race over to my page at http://UltimateGTO.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Subject: 1964 GTO Engine Code
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:28:47 -0400
From: "Hancock, Bryan"
Hello,
I have a question that I can't get answered. If you could help, it would be appreciated. If
you don't know the answer, maybe you can point me in the right direction.
The question is, where exactly on the engine is the engine code located on 1964 GTOs? I am
contemplating the purchase of a 1964 GTO that supposedly has the original 78X engine, but I
don't know where to look for the 78X. I know where the code is stamped on 1965 and up engines,
but I think the '64 is different.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bryan Hancock >>
Subject: RE: [GTO] [Fwd: 1964 GTO Engine Code]
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:18:03 -0400
From: "Hancock, Bryan"
Gary,
Thanks again for the reply. I have another question that you might have the answer to. I was
considering purchasing a 1964 GTO Tri-Power, but it bogged down if it was floored at under
2500 rpm. The owner said it was typical of Tri-Powers, but I don't know enough about them to
know if he was telling the truth or not. I have heard that they don't run right unless they're
kept in tune, and that they're hard to tune. Do you know anything about them? How hard would
it be to get that car to run right?
Thanks,
Bryan Hancock
Subject: [GTO] YS engine in 75 T/A
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:50:10 +0000
From: Rick Mokris
Came across this in a junk yard today. Any chance it's a 455?
Rick M.
66 GTO Tri-power/4spd
73 GP Model J
http://www.goatsgarage.com Classic GTO Roadtests, GTO Magazine Ads, GTO Games, GTO Wallpaper/
Screenaver, My Cars and More!
Subject: Re: [GTO] YS engine in 75 T/A
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:28:29 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
YS = 389 in '65-'66, 400 from '67-'78 except: '74 = 350 GTO, no '77.
Terry
Subject: RE: [GTO] YS engine in 75 T/A
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:16:21 CST
From: "The Harper Valley P.T.A."
<< Came across this in a junk yard today. Any chance it's a 455? >>
According to McCarthy, '75 YS engines were rated at 185 HP and installed with a TH350 in
Firebirds. The 5th character in the VIN would be "S" if this is the original engine. Was the
car pretty much trashed? Or does it have salvageable parts? Send me the details off-line,
please.
Thanks!
Brad
Subject: [GTO] need help please
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:28:59 -0700
From: "Cliff and/or Linda"
Hello boys & girls.....
Started getting this digest a few weeks ago and have already learned stuff about my goat, 69
Conv. Also, have an 80 Turbo T/A. The 69 is in a thousand pieces and am just now starting to
re-assemble. As this is my first contact with you good folks, [ you can't be all bad if you
like GTO's], this may be a little lengthy.
When I bought the car a few years ago from some poor guy that didn't want his ex-wife to
get it, it came with receipts for mucho engine work, and it does go like...well....a GTO.
Problem is, none of the books I've got have any of these numbers except the intake man. which
is correct. Try the little gray cells on these please....Block...YE...Heads...GT perf 1244 ...
400...Left head...11...B180, Right head...17...D300, Dist. hole...36133, L130...
It has a 4-speed behind it with Hurst shifter.
Would sure appreciate your help and it
sounds as if you love a challenge.
Cliff
Subject: Re: [GTO] need help please
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 04:43:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brad Hill
<< Block..YE..Heads..GT perf 1244...400...Left head...11...B180, Right head...17...D300, Dist.
hole...36133, L130...
It has a 4-speed behind it with Hurst shifter. Would sure appreciate your help and it
sounds as if you love a challenge.
Cliff >>
L130= Manufacture Date, Dec 13, 1970 which would make it a 71 block YE block in 71 was a 455
out of either a A body or F body w/auto trans. The head casting number should be 197 though.
11 heads are more than likely off a low compression 350 or 400 from 1970. The 17 would be off a
1968 low compression 350. Are you sure about the head casting numbers. Check the center exhaust
ports on both heads and see what you come up with. Is one so grunged up that it can't be read?
=====
Brad '68 Ram Air GTO
Subject: Re: [GTO] need help please
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:28:42 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Check the block casting number by the distributor hole again, too. It should actually be behind
the right head. "36133" is similar to "9786133", which is a '67 400 casting, but a '71 should
be 481990 (350), 481988 (400), 483677 (455 HO-early), or 485428 (455/455 HO-late). YE was a
400 code in '67.. That "GT perf 1244" is absolutely unfamiliar. The only GM heads I ever heard
of with "perf" cast on them were big-block Chevys.
Terry
Subject: [GTO] Cliff needs and appreciates help
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:13:33 -0700
From: "Cliff and/or Linda"
<< Block...YE...Heads...GT perf 1244...400...Left head...11...B180, Right head...17...D300,
Dist. hole...36133, L130. or L156..
It has a 4-speed behind it with Hurst shifter.
Would sure appreciate your help and it
sounds as if you love a challenge.
Cliff >>
All those numbers are correct except for the dist. hole which "could" be L156 according to
my just as blind friend. Even so it sounds like a "didn't care" mis-match. I have access to a
set of 6x heads, also 4x heads. Which would you recommend? ...Thanks again...Cliff
Subject: Re: [GTO] Cliff needs and appreciates help
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:46:40 EDT
From: Bobgoat67
I was told that "I" wasn't used in the casting dates because it looked too much like a one "1".
Therefore, L156 would be November 15, 1966.
Anyone know for sure about the "I"?
Thanks,
Bob
<< Well, "L156" is December 15, SIXTY-SIX, right, guys? No brane fade today. So I think you
have a '67 400 block. The number over the engine code is the engine serial number--not recorded
anywhere except the original factory billing sheet
The heads you have seem to be 2-barrel heads with small valves, but if it was worked over, who
knows what they have now? Depending on the specific 4X or 6X set, you could gain a little
something, but it might be that you couldn't tell in the seat of your pants. Do you race? Or
does it run pretty good already? My point is that a tenth or 2 is hard to feel.
Terry >>
Subject: Re: [GTO] Cliff needs and appreciates help
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:50:15 EDT
From: ARayman
I think the "I" casting may have been used in some factories during some years.
I have had a 66 4 bbl intake that was an "I" casting, as well as a 68 4 bbl intake that was an
"I".
Subject: Re: [GTO] Cliff needs and appreciates help
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:28:25 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Well, "L156" is December 15, SIXTY-SIX, right, guys? No brane fade today. So I think you have a '67 400 block. The number over the engine code is
the engine serial number--not recorded anywhere except the original factory billing sheet. The
heads you have seem to be 2-barrel heads with small valves, but if it was worked over, who
knows what they have now? Depending on the specific 4X or 6X set, you could gain a little something, but it might be that
you couldn't tell in the seat of your pants. Do you race? Or does it run pretty good already?
My point is that a tenth or 2 is hard to feel.
Terry
Subject: Re: [GTO] Cliff needs and appreciates help
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:26:23 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Pete McCarthy's book says "A-L", although in other writings there WAS one year '66-'68 which
"I" was not used. I've forgotten which (not AGAIN)... and I'm too lazy to root through the
material.
Terry
Subject: [GTO] Cliff says thanks
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:29:10 -0700
From: "Cliff and / or Linda"
Really appreciate the help, and will take your advise on the heads. If it ain't broke, don't
fix it. It does go very well, and nope, I don't race it. I do like to show off with a little
smoke show now and then though. Keeps me young. Found the repair/build receipt finally and it
does say 400 block, bore and hone, grind crank, resize steel rods, cyl. heads .030, pistons,
Moly rings, rocker arms, main/rod bearings, lifters, Hi-perf cam, pushrods, timing chain,
balanced and assembled. It only has maybe 2500 miles on it. Poor guy spent a lot of money on
it. I almost feel guilty for taking it. Not enough to give it back though. Hope to get it back
together and cruise a few shows this year. If not, I'll certainly make the 2001 Tiger Run and
maybe meet some of youse. It's just down the hill and to the left from here.
Thanks again,
Cliff...
Victoria B.C. Canada...
Subject: [GTO] can u decode this ID tag for me ??
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:57:01 EDT
From: HottRodGTO
Can u decode this tag so I know what size motor originally came in it?
OK...I copied down the ID tag on the firewall...it reads exactly like this:
General Motor Corporation
12e 1
st 66-26267 pon 2134 body
tr 567-a n-2 paint
e2kz
5y
body By Fischer 36-2
THANX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris.
67 GTO Ht.
66 Bonneville Convertible
Subject: Re: [GTO] can u decode this ID tag for me ??
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:13:31 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Sorry, but the engine wasn't ever coded in the cowl tag or in the VIN until 1972. What we CAN
tell you is that it is a '66 Bonneville convertible (66-26267), was assembled the last week of
December '66 (12E), and was the 2,134th body through the assembly line in that plant for that
model year. The assembly plant code is in the VIN. The trim code (567A) is not in my list,
unless it really should be 597A, which means black "Palais cloth" bench seats for a Bonne
convertible. N-2 means burgundy with a black top. The other codes are unavailable, but they
have something to do with specific body mods on the assembly line.
If you have $35 to spare you can send the VIN to Pontiac Historical Services and get a package
all about '66 Bonnevilles and a print of the billing history sheet of your specific car. It has
all factory options the car came with, including driveline. That may be too much money for
idle curiosity, though. Check it out at http://www.phs-online.com .
Terry
Subject: Re: [GTO] can u decode this ID tag for me ??
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:00:32 EDT
From: Goats3
<< Sorry, but the engine wasn't ever coded in the cowl tag or in the VIN until 1972. What we
CAN tell you is that it is a '66 Bonneville convertible (66-26267), was assembled the last
week of December '66 (12E), >>
Curious. Wouldn’t Dec 66 assembly make it a 67?
Kenny L
Subject: Re: [GTO] can u decode this ID tag for me ??
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:18:57 CST
From: "The Harper Valley P.T.A."
><< Sorry, but the engine wasn't ever coded in the cowl tag or in the VIN until 1972. What we
CAN tell you is that it is a '66 Bonneville convertible(66-26267), was assembled the last week
of December '66 (12E), >>
>
> Curious. Wouldn’t Dec 66 assembly make it a 67?
I think Terry typo'd and meant to say December of '65. At least that's what he'll probably tell
us. ;^)
Brad
Subject: Re: [GTO] can u decode this ID tag for me ??
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:18:37 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
You're right, of course. Should be December '65. I've been wrong often enough here, but that
was an egregious error (I like that word, egregious).
Terry
Subject: Re: [GTO] '65 Engine ID Info
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 17:01:37 EDT
From: IWKBOARD
I’m new to the GTO world and I’m presently shopping for a '65-'67. I just found one that I
really like. The body’s straight, with minimal rust and original paint. The car itself is grate
but I’m holding back because I don’t know what kind of engine is in it. Normally Pontiac blocks
are blue, but this one is red/orange. The casting code on the left front of the block reads:
FI128H (possibly FII28H stamp was unclear) if any one can help me out with any info on this
engine please do. Thanks.
Subject: Re: [GTO] '65 Engine ID Info
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:29:55 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< I’m new to the GTO world and I’m presently shopping for a '65-'67. I just found one that I
really like. The body’s straight, with minimal rust and original paint. The car itself is grate
but I’m holding back because I don’t know what kind of engine is in it. Normally Pontiac blocks
are blue, but this one is red/orange. The casting code on the left front of the block reads:
FI128H (possibly FII28H stamp was unclear) if any one can help me out with any info on this
engine please do. Thanks. >>
OK, first, you need to get the 2 or 3 digit code [generally, on post 64 engines, they have 2
letters] just below or next to the number you just gave. That number means nothing to the
general public. Then you need to get the date code [4 digit code starting with 1 letter
followed by 3 numbers] from the back of the engine near the distributor hole, then we will be
able to tell you what it is. Also, get the head casting # off of the center exhaust ports.
Goatman
Subject: Re: [GTO] '65 Engine ID Info
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 20:14:19 -0700
From: rickgto
<< OK, first, you need to get the 2 or 3 digit code [generally, on post 64 engines, they have 2
letters] just below or next to the number you just gave. That number means nothing to the
general public. Then you need to get the date code [4 digit code starting with 1 letter
followed by 3 numbers] from the back of the engine near the distributor hole, then we will be
able to tell you what it is. Also, get the head casting # off of the center exhaust ports.
Goatman >>
Good advice Paul. IF it's a Pontiac engine. They all (Buick Chev Olds Caddy) will fit. Sight
identification is number 1. Any engine can be painted any color for 5 bucks. And, the swap is
very,....NO,.....way too common. The post I read sounded like a new to Pontiac guy so I'll make
this assumption;
Not a Poncho. (never used a code like that) If you (the guy with the question) can't identify
by sight, try this, eliminate Buick and Cadillac if it doesn’t have the dist in front.
Eliminate Olds if the exhaust manifold runs the full length of the head. Eliminate Pontiac if
the starter is on the passenger side. From the code I'd say you're looking at a small block
Chev.
Rick
Subject: Re: [GTO] '65 Engine ID Info
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 22:35:59 CST
From: "The Harper Valley P.T.A."
Sounds suspiciously like a small-block Chevy to me. "F" for the Flint engine plant, "1128"
for November 28, and "H" for the engine code. However, my references show "H" as a 1956 truck
265 and IIRC this block won't have provisions for side-mount motor mounts.
Brad
Subject: [GTO] ENGINE CODES
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 19:21:05 EDT
From: Tinmann727
Hello everyone, I have come across a 66 Grand Prix that was just wrecked, I am looking at
buying the motor for 300.00. What I need to know is what motor this is the code on the block
is YC and the heads are 092 The owner says that is the original motor in the car, but I come up
with YC code as being a 455.
Now could this be a 421 engine? I know the 092 heads came on those. Any help would be of help
Tom
67 goat
Subject: Re: [GTO] ENGINE CODES
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 19:37:57 EDT
From: GTOPAUL
The YC engine code and the 092 head codes are correct for a 66 389 290 hp.
Paul
Subject: Re: [GTO] ENGINE CODES
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 18:49:30 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Codes were used again and again. YC was used in '66 in big cars. They were 290 hp 389 2-barrels
with automatic and a/c. Sorry.
Terry
Subject: [GTO] Matching number Question
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 11:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: John DeFalco
Soon the restoration of my 69 GTO Judge will be finished and I would like to begin a search for
a motor that matches my car. What all does this entail and do I have a chance in hell of being
successful. I have no idea what to look for but with the internet being a useful tool I may
have a chance at finding one...Or do I...haha!
Subject: Re: [GTO] Matching number Question
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:54:11 EDT
From: JAYBAKS
If the motor isn't in the car or with it, there is probably a reason like it isn't fixable and
was scrapped long ago. Your looking for the one motor that was in it when it was built. You
might ask the previous owner if he knows what happened to it, but if its a resto, it probably
has had several owners and has gone to the Big Indian in the sky.
jay
Subject: [GTO] Matching number Question
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Petro Stephen R.”
John, I think finding the exact block that was in your actual car are slim to none! You
could find a "correct block" with the correct letter code stamped on the block. That letter
code is located just below where the head mounts on the block in the front. Looking at the
front it would be on the passenger side.
The actual numbers number that would match you vins last 6 numbers would be located on a
machined pad that is located on the front face of the block directly to the left (passenger
side) of the crankshaft. BEWARE!!! This pad can be machined down and "re-stamped" to match
"your" car! You can also check the date code on the block. Usually the block or any other parts
used on a car was "date coded" with in two weeks of the build of the car. I think you would
have a better chance at hitting the LOTTO than finding the actual block!!!!
Steve Petro
1970 Orbit Orange JUDGE
http://ultimategto.com/rest01.htm
Subject: [GTO] 1967 Block identification
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:45:17 EDT
From: CLOZEM
We pulled the motor today. It was a good thing we did it now because it wasn't going to last
much longer. I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about the following casting
number found on the block: 9790077.
Thanks for the help!
Scott
67 GTO Convertible
Subject: Re: [GTO] 1967 Block identification
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 06:55:35 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
9790071 (not 9790077) should be a '68-'69 400. 9786133 is a '67 400. No idea when the numbers
were changed exactly, so I guess it COULD be the original block. If you're interested, you'd
have to match the casting dates with the build date of the car.
Terry
Subject: [GTO] Engine Identity Info needed
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:12:37 -0600
From: Tim Whiting
Guys, over the weekend I was offered a chance to trade for or buy a the engine and tranny out
of what is an approximately 1975 Pontiac Bonneville (not sure exactly, forgot to look).
Anyways, I got the codes off of the engine, and I was wondering if someone could identify the
motor for me.
0290793
YJ
5C Heads
The guy, (a Ford and Jeep guy) said he was told that it was a 350, but the tag on the radiator
support said that it was a 400...
Anyways, any help would be appreciated!
Tim
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Identity Info needed
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:07:41 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
I can't find YJ used in '75, but it's there for '74 and '76, both 400s. 5C is a '75 head. Need
the date code for the block, but my guess would be it's
the original engine, just an early or
late production. Or the short block could have been changed at some point. If it's the original
engine for the car, the partial VIN along the timing cover will match the car.
Terry
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Identity Info needed
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:03:15 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< Guys, over the weekend I was offered a chance to trade for or buy a the engine and tranny
out of what is an approximately 1975 Pontiac Bonneville (not sure exactly, forgot to look).
Anyways, I got the codes off of the engine, and I was wondering if someone could identify the
motor for me.
0290793
YJ
5C Heads
The guy, (a Ford and Jeep guy) said he was told that it was a 350, but the tag on the radiator
support said that it was a 400...
Anyways, any help would be appreciated!
Tim >>
Tim, just as Terry said, you need the year. If you go to
ENGINE CODES and at the bottom of that
page I described just how to find the year and what it is.
Goatman
Subject: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:11:19 EDT
From: PGates6804
List,
Did they make a 70 GTO Judge with a optional 455HO Ram Air? I have seen pictures of them,
but some know it all guy says that they don’t but he says he knows everything. Any info
appreciated. Thanks Adam
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 00:04:30 EDT
From: Corpkilr1
Sorry Adam, No 455 HO or Ram Air cars listed for 1970. Only 455/360 HP Available in GTO or
Judge. From the best of my math, looks like a total of 4163...........455 cars made in 70. All
w/360 HP.
-corpkilr-
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:49:14 -0500
From: "Dirk Denzin"
<< Sorry Adam, No 455 HO or Ram Air cars listed for 1970. Only 455/360 HP Available in GTO or
Judge. From the best of my math, looks like a total of 4163...........455 cars made in 70. All
w/360 HP.
-corpkilr- >>
I believe that were 455HO's in '70. They were not the same as the '71 and '72 (round port) but
were D ports. It was pretty much a HO in name only and was not a significantly different engine
as the '71 and '72 were.
Dirk
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:01:58 EDT
From: Corpkilr1
<< I believe that were 455HO's in '70. They were not the same as the '71 and '72 (round port)
but were D ports. It was pretty much a HO in name only and was not a significantly different
engine as the '71 and '72 were.
Dirk >>
Dirk,........You may be rt., all I can say, is this is what is listed in the GTO Red Book,
'64 -'74.
-Corpkilr-
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:32:45 -0500
From: "Dirk Denzin"
<< Dirk,........You may be rt., all I can say, is this is what is listed in the GTO Red Book,
'64 - '74.
-corpkilr- >>
Pete McCarthy lists a 455HO for 1970, Block Codes WA manual trans (1,979 made), 117 were 3
speeds, 1802 were 4 speeds, 158 convertibles, or block code YA or YC Automatic (2,227 made) 241
convertibles. These were available with RAM AIR, heads were #64, manual trans got 068 cam and
Auto got a 067 cam.
The #64 heads were GTO only and were 87 cc.
More Than you wanted to know I'm sure, but it clears the air.
Dirk
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:37:15 -0700
From: rickgto
<< Pete McCarthy lists a 455HO for 1970, Block Codes WA manual trans (1,979 made), 117 were 3
speeds, 1,802 were 4 speeds, 158 convertibles, or block code YA or YC Automatic (2,227 made)
241 convertibles These were available with RAM AIR, heads were #64, manual trans got 068 cam
and Auto got a 067 cam.
The #64 heads were GTO only and were 87 cc.
More Than you wanted to know I'm sure, but it clears the air.
Dirk >>
Also GP's got the 64's 370 HP 455. WG-manual w/068, XF-auto w/067.
Rick
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:58:21 CST
From: "The Harper Valley P.T.A."
<< Pete McCarthy lists a 455HO for 1970, Block Codes WA manual trans (1,979
The #64 heads were GTO only and were 87 cc. >>
The WG and XF 455s used in Grand Prixs also got the #64s and used the same cams and Q-Jets as
the GTO engines (McCarthy "55-79", p. 47). Also, on p. 36-37 of the August '00 HPP is an
article about a '70 Bonneville that was ordered with the XF-code 455 and came with the #64
heads.
Brad
Subject: Re: [GTO] 70 gto judge 455HO question[ 3 leg engine stand]
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:00:53 EDT
From: Kuchila
May I recommend a "rule of thumb" here on the three legged engine stands.
They work very well if you take this "rule of thumb" to heart and Obey it faithfully.
Rule of Thumb
"When using a three legged engine stand for engine rebuilding, DO NOT stand in its way if it
decides it wants to lay down and take a nap."
kuchila
66 & 67 GTO's
Subject: [GTO] Engine Codes
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:30:00 -0400
From: "Collingwood, Mike"
Saw a 1965 389 block last night. Can't remember the code, but it was from a full sized and the
book noted it as a "Police Engine". Anybody have any idea what this means?
mjc
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Codes
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:00:46 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< Saw a 1965 389 block last night. Can't remember the code, but it was from a full sized and
the book noted it as a "Police Engine". Anybody have any idea what this means? >>
Mike, usually it just means they have the "hottest" factory engine in them.
Probably had Tri-power or dual-quads.
Goatman
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Codes
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:01:49 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< Saw a 1965 389 block last night. Can't remember the code but it was from a full sized and
the book noted it as a "Police Engine". Anybody have any idea what this means? >>
I guess I should have added that they were only built that way for the Police cars.
Goatman
Subject: [GTO] help with engine ID
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:43:16 EDT
From: JagginRoun
I thought I knew how to identify these things, but I'm stumped with mine.
I've got a 66 GTO. It's got a 389 (I think). Anyway, I went looking for the date code and I
can't find one. Here's what I could find:
Right hand front of the block:
429642 engine sequence number
WT 389 - 4bbl - MT (I'm guessing)
44739 ? in bigger letters
Back by the distributor:
3188 I think this is the casting number
877 ???
8789 Directly behind the distributor hole.
Looking at the restoration guide, on page 350, it shows a block with the date code right near
the edge of the block. I don't have one. Looking on page 353 it shows a picture of the casting
code. The date code might be there also, but it's kind of covered up.
Here's a couple of other things that I know.
It has "77" heads which are 1965.
It has the 524009 camshaft which is 1964.
It has the pointer instead of a scale on the timing case cover, which is pre 1966.
Any help you could offer me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Matt
Subject: RE: [GTO] help with engine ID
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:26:03 CST
From: Maxwell Edison (majoring in medicine)
<< Right hand front of the block:
429642 engine sequence number
WT 389 - 4bbl - MT (I'm guessing)
44739 ? in bigger letters
Back by the distributor:
3188 I think this is the casting number
877 ???
8789 Directly behind the distributor hole. >>
9778789 is the casting number for a 1965-66 389. In '65-66 the WT code indicated a 389/335
engine mated to a manual transmission and used in the A-Body. 44739, 3188, and 877 are all
puzzling...
Brad
Subject: Re: [GTO] help with engine ID
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:41:47 -0700
From: rickgto
<< I thought I knew how to identify these things, but I'm stumped with mine. I've got a 66 GTO.
It's got a 389 (I think). Anyway, I went looking for the date code and I can't find one. Here's
what I could find:
Right hand front of the block:
429642 engine sequence number >>
Yep.
<< WT 389 - 4bbl - MT (I'm guessing)>>
Yep
<< 44739 ? in bigger letters >>
Don't know why that's there.
<< Back by the distributor:
3188 I think this is the casting number >>
I'd bet it's a "B" "18" "5" (feb 18, 65)
<< 877 ???
8789 Directly behind the distributor hole.
These numbers (877 & 8789) if you check closer at the first digit, should be a "9"778789 which
is the correct 65-66 389 casting.
Looking at the restoration guide, on page 350, it shows a block with the date code right near
the edge of the block. I don't have one. Looking on page 353 it shows a picture of the casting
code. The date code might be there also, but it's kind of covered up.
<< Here's a couple of other things that I know.
It has "77" heads which are 1965. >>
Yep
<< It has the 524009 camshaft which is 1964. >>
That's actually a cam blank number. That # was used well into the 70's. Starting, I think, in
the late 50’s, early 60's.
<< It has the pointer instead of a scale on the timing case cover, which is pre 1966. >>
Yep
<< Any help you could offer me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Matt >>
I'd have to say you have a 65 manual trans 389 4V GTO engine there.
Rick
Subject: Re: [GTO] help with engine ID
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:44:33 CST
From: Maxwell Edison (majoring in medicine)
<< 44739 ? in bigger letters
Don't know why that's there. >>
I wonder if it's a stamp from a rebuilder. For example, the Jasper-built 400 in my '78 T/A has
a Jasper ID number on the driver-side block face. Matt, have you measured cylinder bore yet?
Brad
Subject: Re: [GTO] help with engine ID
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 19:41:03 -0700
From: rickgto
<< I wonder if it's a stamp from a rebuilder. For example, the Jasper-built 400 in my '78 T/A
has a Jasper ID number on the driver-side block face.
Matt, have you measured cylinder bore
yet?
Brad >>
Jaspers and the like you can always tell by the "heat sink" on the block and head freeze plugs.
Designed to melt away around 250 degrees. Let’s them step out of warranty graciously. Course,
they tell you allot more than the customer with the seized engine will.
Rick
Subject: Re: [GTO] help with engine ID
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 20:41:23 EDT
From: JagginRoun
Thanks for all of the help guys.
Brad, no I haven't measured the bore yet. Gotta take a run to the local machine shop tomorrow
and have them get me a replacement piston. They are stamped .060, so I know I got a 60 over
something. Based on the input from you guys, it pretty much sounds like a 65 389. You guys are
right about the casting number. It's not an 877 on my block, it's 977 which combined with the
8789 comes up with the correct casting number. Still not too sure about that date code Rick.
You might be right with the 3 being a B, but the last digit sure doesn't look like a 5, it
still looks like an 8 to me, but maybe it was just cast a little sloppy or something. Anyway,
I'm feeling pretty comfortable with what I got now.
Thanks again,
Matt Dillon
66 convt.
Subject: [GTO] Billing History Question
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:39:24 EDT
From: Green68gto
I got the documentation from PHS for my Goat today. I knew exactly what to expect, however I'm
still a little disappointed on both the info they provided and the lack of options on my car. I
guess I was expecting to learn some more obscure facts about my car rather than what I already
decoded from the Resto Guide and various other sources.
I've got my billing history all decoded with the exception of one option. I was wondering if
any of you gurus out there knew what they option for box 75 with a 4 in it is. I would imagine
it’s something like heavy duty antifreeze or floor mats, but I'd still like to know.
Thanks,
Ken
'68 GTO
Subject: Re: [GTO] Billing History Question
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:01:18 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Ken, on mine, columns 75 & 76 are the 2-letter engine code. What's in column 76, then? And by
the way, how hard was it to decode the rear end ratio? I don't seem to have all the docs for my
'67.
Terry
Subject: Re: [GTO] Billing History Question
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:20:31 -0400
From: Mark Cianfichi
Ken,
According to Car & Parts magazine's "Catalog of Pontiac GTO ID Numbers 1964-1974" option 754 is
1 pair of front shoulder belts.
Mark
Subject: Re: [GTO] Billing History Question
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:26:05 EDT
From: Green68gto
Thanks, that makes sense. I didn't think over the shoulder belts would appear on the billing
history since they were standard after Jan. 1, '68.
As far as the rear axle code goes, I don't know if it's specified directly on the billing
history. As far as I can tell, you have to cross reference the
billing history (section 36 for
axles) with your engine option (section 34) and transmission (section 35). Of course, check the
special order sheet just
in case the buyer got adventurous. Then use that information on the
power train chart to determine your axle code.
That's the long way. The quick way is to go underneath your car and search along the back side
of the rear axle tubes for the stamped 2 letter code. Then look at the corresponding chart for
your year in the Resto Guide (or email it to the GTO list) and see if it matches with your
engine and tranny.
Ken
'68 GTO
Subject: Re: [GTO] Billing History Question
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 16:44:27 -0500
From: Terry Nixon
Uh, we aren't talking about the same form, it looks like. I wouldn't think a '67 form would
differ that much from a '68, but I don't have any "sections" on mine. It's a photostat of a
punchcard or something with various fields for stuff like the VIN, the price, the dealer code
and so on, and then small boxes numbered 33 to 78, with numbers stamped inside. Boxes 34, 35,
and 36 have the radio options and air cleaner options, according to the order sheet I got also.
Does it sound like I need to call PHS? Can anybody else comment on model year differences in
order sheets? This is really just idle curiosity because the HO engine, M21 and high-number
rear were gone before I bought it, but I was curious which rear it was...
Terry
Subject: Re: [GTO] Billing History Question
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 04:00:17 EDT
From: Green68gto
Terry,
Maybe my terminology was too vague. It sounds to me like we are talking about the same form. I
think I was unclear that I am talking about several forms.
(1) The billing history which has
the small boxes labeled 33-78 and the dealer code, key code, etc. (2) The Options and
Accessories form which has the "sections" I referred to, and (3) The 1968 ('67 in your case)
power train chart.
The Options and Accessories form should have your options in yellow highlighter as decoded by
PHS. By deductive reasoning between the three forms, you should be able to figure out what rear
end your car has.
Hope this helps,
Ken
Subject: [GTO] Howdy from a new guy and GTO id question
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:10:02 -0500
Hi, my name is John Strauss and I live in Austin, Texas. I joined this list because I have just
become really serious about getting a goat. When I was in high school in the 70s I had a really
nice '71 LeMans Sport 350/350. My version of the "mid-life crisis" is I want to buy examples
of the cars I had in my youth and do the things I didn't have the money for back then.
To that end, I have located a really nice '72 GTO for what seems like an unreasonably low price.
What do I look for to make sure this is in fact a correct, numbers matching goat? Is there a
book that is particularly good on this info I should run out and buy?
Thanks for any help.
_
_| \~~\. John Strauss
\, *_}
\( Texas Fight!
Subject: Re: [GTO] Howdy from a new guy and GTO id question
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:10:33 -0500
Best bet still is get the VIN and pay the 35$ to Pontiac Historical (http://www.PHS-online.com)
(can do right over internet). They will provide you with build sheet listing all options (not
only will you be able to verify that it truly is a GTO' you will be able to figure out exactly
what it had for options from factory). Good protection against buying a clone(lots of them out
there - cheap!)
Mike Donahoe
64-66-69
Rochester, MInnesota
Subject: Re: [GTO] Howdy from a new guy and GTO id question
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:55:27 EDT
What is the turn around from PHS on the internet? Their ads state a 6-8 week delivery time for
regular service.
Harry
lookin' for that '71 convertible
Subject: Re: [GTO] Howdy from a new guy and GTO id question
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:18:42 -0500
I've gotten several from them - I would say more like - 3 or 4 weeks.
Subject: Re: [GTO] Howdy from a new guy and GTO id question
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:54:46 EDT
<< Best bet still is get the VIN and pay the 35$ to Pontiac Historical (http://www.PHS-online.com)
(can do right over internet) >>
That would be http://www.PHS-online.com/ . Still the best way to go to see if it is what it's
supposed to be. (did that make sense?) Also remember, 72 GTO was again an extension of the
LeMans package. Welcome Aboard!!!
Kenny L
Subject: PHS (was: RE: [GTO] Howdy from a new guy and GTO id question)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:02:17 -0400
I've heard of them faxing reports in a matter of hours. Call them...They'll work with ya.
Ron
Subject: [GTO] WW5 Package
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:37:05 EDT
What is the WW5 package for a 1972 GTO? Its not listed in the Redbook.
Harry
Subject: [GTO] WW5 Package
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:24:57 -0500
It was a combination of other parts including the 34X 445 HO engine, choice of 4-speed or auto
trans, limited slip rear, body-colored outside mirrors, Formula steering wheel, roof drip rail
moldings, power front disc brakes, custom carpets, Rally Gauge cluster including tach, and the
handling package.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_}
\( Texas Fight!
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Code
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:20:43 -0400 (EDT)
I just picked up an old long block that has #15 heads and YE stamped on the block. The casting
at the back is J187. I would appreciate if someone on the list could identify it for me. I have
looked and the closest I can come up with is the block YE - 71 455 H.O. 4 BBL Auto.
Any help would be appreciated.
Don
65 GTO
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Code
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:43:11 -0600
Don-
I come up with a late 67 400, 4 barrel, A/T; judging from the #15 heads it was destined to wind
up in an early 68 with the same configuration. YE was another common code used from 65-72 on
everything from 350, 389, 400 and 455s. There is a good engine code database at
http://www.classicalpontiac.com in the Restoration section.
Dan
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Code
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:45:53 CST
Sounds like a '68 400/340 used in big cars.
Brad
Subject: Re: [GTO] Engine Code
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:56:16 -0700
Ditto Brad,
My book shows it being a 340 HP 400 10.5:1 Comp, Automatic, Quadrajet from a B body. Block was
cast Oct.=(J) 18, 1967 for 1968 model year.
Gary T.
64 GTO Htp.
75 455 Grand Am
Subject: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:24:36 -0700
From: J Tatum
I have located a 68 GTO that I am considering buying. This car has a column shift. I know that
they offered such in 68 but did they offer a bench seat? I am told that this is a one owner 86k
mile car and that this is the way it was ordered. Does anyone know any production numbers for
GTOs so equipped?
Thanks,
Jim
Subject: Re: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:33:10 -0400
From: Jim Edmonds
Yup, I got a PHS verified one that came with radial tires and compact spare. I’ve also wondered
how many came like this.
Jim E.
Subject: Re: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:42:55 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< I have located a 68 GTO that I am considering buying. This car has a column shift. I know
that they offered such in 68 but did they offer a bench seat? I am told that this is a one
owner 86k mile car and that this is the way it was ordered. Does anyone know any production
numbers for GTOs so equipped?
Thanks,
Jim >>
There is probably no way to know how many were made but if the car was ordered without a
console, then it came with column shift. Buckets were of course standard but a bench seat could
be had at no additional cost. I once had a friend that bought a 69 RA IU Judge with a bench
seat and column shift auto and a 4:33 posi! Carousel red and all original. I bet it was the
only one made like that. They only made something like 45-50 RA IU auto GTO's and Judges
combined! Just about anything could be had back then.
Goatman
Subject: Re: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:45:44 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
Oh yeah, about the 69 Judge post I posted, you want to be sick, he paid $2500 for it and drove
it home! Body was very nice and interior OK. I was upset that the friend of mine that told him
about the car didn't tell me first since he hardly knew the other guy. Oh well, that's the
breaks!
Goatman
Subject: RE: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:07:55 -0400
From: CharlesB
I remember once seeing a '66 with a bench & column shifter. Typical basic GTO.
CB
Subject: RE: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:02:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: edraden
As a matter of fact before I bought my '68 I looked at a absolutely gorgeous Verdoro Green '68
hardtop that was a base motor, column shift Turbo 400 bench seat car. It had the original
window sticker from a local dealer and was well documented. I also know of a '67 with a 2 bbl
economy engine with column shift & bench seat, a highly loaded '67 base engine, column shift &
bench seat, another similar '67 with fewer options, a '67 base motor, column shift, buckets no
console and a '69 column shift & bench seat. My thoughts are that a lot of these cars survived
more unscathed than their 4 speed counterparts since they weren't as desirable as "performance"
cars. It also seems like '67 might have been the higher production year.
Ed Raden
Subject: Re: [GTO] 68 Question
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:27:59 -0400
From: Rick Mokris
>> As a matter of fact before I bought my '68 I looked at a absolutely gorgeous Verdoro Green
'68 hardtop that was a base motor, column shift Turbo 400 bench seat car. It had the original
window sticker from a local dealer and was well documented. I also know of a '67 with a 2 bbl
economy engine with column shift & bench seat, a highly loaded '67 base engine, column shift &
bench seat, another similar '67 with fewer options, a '67 base motor, column shift, buckets no
console and a '69 column shift & bench seat. My thoughts are that a lot of these cars survived
more unscathed than their 4 speed counterparts since they weren't as desirable as "performance"
cars. It also seems like '67 might have been the higher production year.
Ed Raden >>
Sounds logical....67 was also the first year for the bench seat option, first year for the
TH400 and first year the auto trans out sold the 4 spd.
Rick M.
66 GTO Tri-power/4spd
73 GP Model J
Subject: [GTO] Re: 68 Question
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:34:26 -0700
From: J Tatum
Thanks to all that responded to my question!
Well, the GTO I spoke of is for a friend. She has had me searching high and low for one for
about 3 months now. It is a surprise present for her husband's 50th. He had a maroon with white
top and white interior 4 speed back in 68. He has longed for another GTO all these years and
let me tell you, maroon 68s are not growing on trees.
I found this one from a dealer in SC. It has a new paint job and they are in the process of
re-dying the original white interior and replacing the carpet and window rubber before it makes
it's trek to TX. Car is to be delivered to my home by the 13th and he is getting it on the
14th!
This one is kind of a strange duck. Column shift and bench. Hope he is not disappointed.
Anybody GTO lovers in SC that might want to make a few bucks by swinging by and taking a look
at this beast "before" it is put on a truck to make sure it is worth having? We do have the
right to refuse the car and send it back if it is not as advertised when it gets here. I do not
want to do that. I want a car here by the 13th. This one is advertised to be a solid good
running and handling driver, no rust, had body panels welded in just prior to new paint,
matching numbers motor and trim codes, no bondo, one owner, 86k miles, with air, ps, pb, column
shift, bench seat, new tires, clean chrome, nice dash, nice interior, good driver, clean trunk,
as far as I know all stock equipment except for air cleaner. If so, contact me privately.
Thanks,
Jim
Subject: Re: [GTO] Re: 68 Question
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 03:11:20 GMT
From: "Jim Ozolins"
>no rust
Wha??? No rust?
What do you mean by that?
What does that mean, "no rust"?
No rust. unbelievable.
Would you like some rust?
I can spare it.
Jim O. (livin in rust belt)
I got rust on top of rust.
Subject: Re: [GTO] Re: 68 Question
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:42:12 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< Thanks to all that responded to my question!
Well, the GTO I spoke of is for a friend. She has had me searching high and low for one for
about 3 months now. It is a surprise present for her husband's 50th. He had a maroon with white
top and white interior 4 speed back in 68. He has longed for another GTO all these years and
let me tell you, maroon 68s are not growing on trees. >>
Hey Jim, glad you are getting the help you need. I told you this list is GREAT and you will get
an answer for your questions! Good Luck!
Goatman
Paul Carter: Pres. of G.O.A.T.
G.O.A.T.
OFFERINGS
Subject: Re: [GTO] Re: 68 Question
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:49:55 EDT
From: MycoPhoric
I'll second that. Minnesota is not known for it's rust free vehicles. To tell you people up
front.... it makes me sick with jealousy for all you people living in rust free areas!!!!!!
Sorry had to vent.
Steve Rautio
69 LeMans Convertible
Subject: Re: [GTO] Re: 68 Question
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 03:51:31 EDT
From: GoatmanPaulC
<< I'll second that. Minnesota is not known for it's rust free vehicles. To tell you people
up front.... it makes me sick with jealousy for all you people living in rust free areas!!!!!!
Sorry had to vent.
Steve Rautio
69 LeMans Convertible >>
Hey, don't feel bad, the quarter panels on my 64 are rusted out as well as the trunk and floor
pans and I'm in Arizona! The car has been here for a while too, just not sure how long.
Goatman
Subject: Re: [GTO] ENGINE ID
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:31:23 EST
From: Tinmann727
Could anyone tell me what size Pontiac motor this is. The code letters on the front of the
block are XV
Tom
67 gto
Subject: Re: [GTO] ENGINE ID
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 15:13:30 EST
From: Goats3
<< Could anyone tell me what size Pontiac motor this is. The code letters on the front of the
block are XV
Tom
67 gto >>
1973 350 is the only XV I see.
Kenny L
Subject: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:31:52 EST
From: R92Z28
List help needed. I have a two-speed transmission that I took out of my 66 Goat. (I'm
converting it to a 4 speed) I have a gentleman who is very interested in buying it. The numbers
& letters on the round side plate read: 68 over MS247N. Is there anybody out there in Goatland
who can tell us what we have? I would also appreciate it someone could give me an idea of what
it's worth.
TIA
Raymon
66 GTO HT
Subject: Re: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:43:13 EST
From: Cf204cf
That would be a Super Turbine 300 out of a 1969 Olds Delta "88" V8-350!
I need a 1966 ST300, thanks anyway.
Clyde.
Subject: RE: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:27:31 -0500
From: "Collingwood, Mike"
Raymon: Saw your question on the 66 tranny. I may be pulling the four speed within the next
few weeks. Are you still interested or did you find another one. I have a correct cross member
and bell housing if you need it.
Let me know. BTY I hit the big '58' today. Sixty not far away, but when I drive the GTO I am 18
again.
mjc
Subject: Re: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:52:14 -0500
From: "Phil Shaffer"
Why are you pulling the 4 speed? Are we talking 4 speed Auto or manual?
Phil
Subject: RE: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:07:43 -0500 (EST)
From: PteeCruiser
MJC, did you say you were pulling your 4 speed and putting in a power glide? Why???? Curious......Dennis......66 2 speed auto
Subject: RE: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:44:54 -0500
From: "Collingwood, Mike"
Negatory. I am pulling the 4 Speed as 3rd is wining and I am replacing it with another 4 Speed.
Raymon, my friend from Johnstown needs a 4 Speed for his 66 rebuilt. Actually, I screwed up as
I only wanted the message to go to him not the list.
One of those senior moments I guess.
Mike
Subject: Re: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:12:29 EST
From: R92Z28
Mike: ABSOLUTELY!! I definitely still want your 4-speed. And . . . I definitely agree with you
about the '18' part. I just went to see my car last Thursday and I felt young again. I'll tell
you more when I get home.
(I'm at work now.)
Raymon
Subject: RE: [GTO] Powerglide? / 2 speed ID
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:01:17 -0500 (EST)
From: PteeCruiser
To MJC or anyone else....do you have to change the xmember if you are going from a 2 speed auto
to a 4 speed manual? I think this was asked before, but cannot remember the answer.
Thanks.....Dennis
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