From: "Yuhang Ng" Save Address Block Sender To: kof-ml@umich.edu Cc: neogeo@dhp.com Subject: Athena Infinite against CPU ONLY. Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:13:00 PDT Apologies if this has already been posted, or most ppl know this, but I know that I would like someone to inform me of such tactics, so don't flame me guys & gals. Jump D, Close Standing C, Psycho Grab (is that the name? HCF + P), (Fast) Jump C, Down C, Psycho Grab..... {In affect you'll jump after them slapping the opponant with a strong punch in the air, and if executed properly, you'll land first and the enemy will eat your down punch, in which you continue the combo...} One of the following will/should happen 1/ The opponant may get dizzy (I haven't confirmed that but maybe) 2/ The opponant dies halfway before you've completed a cycle of the combo (heheheh) 3/ You finish the combo with a special move. 4/ You finish the combo with a super move (DM). <===== My favorite. Terry's one was similar too. BTW, what was his infinite (against players too) combo again? Yuhang Ng. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Athena is DEFINITELY top-tier!!! From: AMANO Save Address Block Sender To: kof-ml@umich.edu Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:58:37 +0100 >Hokay, for those of you gamers who think Athena is a lousy character, think >again. Today I played a reeeaaaally good Athena who kicked my @$$ with a >strategy I have NEVER seen before or read on this ML. > >Before I get into details, let me tell my little narrative first. > >Went to the arcades, trying to take a break from HW. Weellll...here was >this guy playing Kensou, Athena, and Kyo 94 who defeated my Japanese friend >(who's pretty good). So I challenged him...using my Fatal Fury team. As >usual, I lost (my Fatal Fury team is usually for warm-up and first good >impressions). > >Let me describe his Kensou: knows all the tricks, and is a bloody turtle. >He would fireball over and over again from the distance (slow, fast, slow, >fast, fast, slow, etc. he'd mix it up). If I roll throw he'd play more >cautious and he'd d+A all day if I'm too close and then link up into some >combo ending with the FB to push me away...once I'm far away he'd do the FB >thing again. If I block, he'd run up and either do the overhead or d+D...a >simulation of Athena's old FB trap. And then he'd to Kensou's 3-hit thing >all day when I'm close...of course, it has no lag time so I can't punish >him afterwards but I do receive some nice tick damage. In fact, the only >way I actually hit the damn guy was one he FBed and I jumped at the same >time (if you jump too late, Kensou can counter you). This guy was GOOD too >because he knew how to use Kensou's DMs (especially his hit/throw DM)...in >short, I had a lot of trouble beating him. Whoever said that Kensou was >not strong is wrong wrong wrong... huh!, it has always been generally known here that Kensou is strong in KOF97, I usually play him effectivly by running away from my opponants and repeat throw QCB+A/C if opponant rolls then I HCF+A, if opponant jumps then I HCF+C, both moves have autoguard qualities, if opponant somehow gets near I usually do Dn+D into QCB+C to make him back up. Roll behind buffered QCF,QCF+A work pretty good as well. Though after Kensous HCF+A it IS possible to throw him (command throw) if Sie starts it deep, but if Kensou does crouch A/B's after it will knock you out of the command throw and Sie can combo Dn+A/B into HCF+A (pretty solid huh!). >But after 3 losses I got used to his Kensou and defeated him with Yama. >His Kyo wasn't a real problem...tricky though. He used a lot of cross-ups >and d+B, d+A, d/f+D. In fact, my Yash killed his Kyo pretty convincingly. >I thought: heh heh, victory is mine...and it was going great 'cause I was >killing his Athena with my "Yash Rush" before...he pulled out his #$%^& >Athena tactic. > >Before I describe this tactic, let's get this clear...command throws have >incredible priority and will beat almost all moves...and Athena's standing >C (I think that's what it was) is fast, has high-priority, and can be >cancelled into her throw. > >This is what he'd do: The toss-up throw, high jump D; Athena lands first, >usually on the other side of what you'd expect (ie if she did the throw on >the left she'd land on the right), however, sometimes she does end up on >the left side. But when she lands she'd immediately C --> command throw >again. The thing about this pattern is that you don't know which way to >block!!! Even if you block the C, you'd still get thrown anyway since it >recovers so quickly. I tried doing As and Bs which I hoped were faster >than Athena's C...but nope, no cigar. He'd also mix it up and do the throw >immediately w/o the C, beating out whatever DP or move I tried to pull off. > Sometimes, instead of jump D after the throw, he'd teleport, and >immediately throw me when I land (the timing is exact...he'd finish >teleporting exactly when I land). Sometimes instead of the C --> throw >he'd do a combo that'll take up another chunk of my life. And when I was >about to die, he'd do Athena's DM (which is a bloody good anti-air DM BTW) >after the toss-up throw. This all happens very, very quickly...in about >five seconds, my Yash was dead (and he almost had full life too). Bottom >line: I couldn't do anything. > >My Yash and Joe got defeated this way! The thing was he also knew how to >play Athena w/o this tactic...turle FB and the whole deal. Maybe it's just >me but...I don't know how to defeat this (yet) w/o losing a lotta life! >Any of you guyz have any idea??? This is usually a CPU tactic, it is DEFINATLY escapable by repeated crouch A's or B's, Athena shouldn't be able to tick block grab C into HCF+C AFAIK. >Athena is DEFINITELY TOP-TIER!!! (Amano, take note!) I dunno Athena relies on landing her HCF+C, and both her teleport and HCF+C can be stopped by crouch A's or B's or by other command high priority command throws, do not try and block when you land coz you'll be up in the air again B4 you know it. (kinda fun though) You can use the same tactic for other characters who have HCF moves which launch opponants and jump+C/D to stand them back up again to repeat process. (only guarrenteed against CPU). regards -AMANO- > >Fair enough, but note that he _was_ initiating a command throw after > >landing/teleporting. Since Athena's command throw motion, like all > >others, is dependent on what side of your enemy you are on, _he_ at least > >must have known what side of you he was going to be on. > > Actually, I'm pretty sure he knew...but if he didn't, maybe that's why he > did the C hit first, since then it would give him a small window of time to > determine what the motion of the throw is. Then again, he -- He definitely know what side Athena is going on. You don't use Athena, right? Try to use her, and you'll get some idea. > -- Oh I know...which side Athena lands on is probably dependent upon her > jump D. That is, if she jump attacked earlier she'd land as expected (throw > from left, land to the left) but if she attacked later than she'd end up on > the other side...Is this possible? Or am I over-theorizing?? The timing > is must be really tight... Yup you're really too over-theorizing.... Which side Athena lands doesn't depend on the time she attack..... it depends on what type of jump Athena perform. If she perform a hyper jump to attack you after you're thrown, then you'll land to the right side normally. But this is the case that Athena doesn't move after landing....if she just walk a bit to the right, then you'll land on the left side. Since she just need to walk a very little bit to change your landing direction, you must have to guess which side she'll go to. > >Unless he was > >option selecting somehow. Therefore, there must be a way of predicting > >which side he will be on, and then you can either dwn+A/B in the correct > >direction or do a command throw of your own. Just watch very carefully > >the differences in what he does when he ends up on the left/right of you. > > > I tried! But it all happens so quickly...you get kinda confused you know? That strategy is rather safe....at least none of my opponent can counter that when I use this strategy to beat him. The only thing he can do is blocking after landing. (And if he got the wrong direction....haha) > >Also, are you absolutely sure you tried jumping backward/upward out of > >this pattern? > > Yeah...tried it before...but only like once or twice (which didn't work). > However, on retrospect I'm having doubts...was I too confused that I didn't > time the jump properly? But no, I don't think you could jump out of it, > since like I said, Athena landed first but barely.... Yeah...Athena will surely land first and so its not easy to jump away. So, again, the only thing that you can do is blocking. Good luck! :) (you need to guess the direction to block) > >I don't know of too many blocked move ticks or jump in > >whiff throws in this game that can't be jump air-blocked out of. You may > >cop a stand C as you leave the ground but at least the trap will be > >broken. > > I wish I could play this guy again but to tell you the truth that was my > first time playing him. Also, after nobody else dared challenge him (they > were all too awed as was I) and he lost to the computer (the comp. here is > really, really, really, really hard...) he played other characters (whom he > was all good with, especially Orochi Chris) and never played Athena again > (I was waiting for his Athena to come out so I could have another go with > her). I think 'cause he doesn't want his secrets to be revealed and > defeated...heh heh...;) He might even be on this ML! (He certainly knows > enough). Oh things are totally different in my place. Players who were beated by my Athena challenge me again and again, using Orochis, until they win. (I think they are very rich) Dominic Kwan