I just want to make a couple of quick points first: -Billy's Flame Finisher (qcf + P) works only on the end of his Pole Extend (hcf + P). It does *NOT* work after either of his tap + P moves, or after either of his command attacks. -Neither of Billy's command attacks (fwd + A, fwd + B) is at all bufferable, not even the fwd + A into tap + C. -Neither of Billy's Super Club Blows (f, d, df + K) knocks down. -Neither of Billy's Reversals seems to have much priority, and will get stuffed by 2-hit normals or tick-throw-into- command-throw tactics. -The Fire Wheel DM does not seem to be in any way combo-able; not even the SDM version. [Billy's Only Combo] >>At 06:41 PM 8/28/97 +0100, you wrote: >>>> >>>> I tend to rely mainly on his low/close standing C + Pole Extend + >>>> Flame Finisher >>> >>>The only combo you need, >> >> The only combo he has, it seems like. >> >Well there's the low damage shady feeling, C in to tap C *shiver* that >move feels really unsecure. Yeah, the damage sucks, and it does sort of leave you open, in addition to the fact that you may [like me] feel like an idiot whilst mashing the punch button. His most reliable combo seems to be low C + Pole Extend + Flame Finisher. [Billy's Jump-ins] >>>occationally tack a jumping C or D on the front >>>to punish a fireballer (e.g. Iori) >> >> That's kind of hard. His jump C has so much forward reach >> (a lot like SS Jubei's jump B) that it often hits too >> early to connect a ground hit afterwards. His jump D might >> be a little better. >> >That's the point though. You are constantly jabbing with low A, NNNNNNOOOOoooooooooooooo........!!!!! >The fireballer gets pissed off and backs away to throw fireballs, wait for >him to start then as he is just starting to throw one, hyper jump in >with C in to the ducking C, pole + flame. Jump-in with C? I have yet to connect a ground hit after a jump C. The Jump D seems to be a lot better for jump-in combos. A lot better. A shadow jump will get you in close enough. >Jump D is better if they are closer, but you're going for reach on this >occation. The Jump D has plenty of reach, and will actually cross up sometimes. It seems like one of the better jump-ins in the game (up there with Mai's jump D and Mary's jump C). You should use it more often if you're going for combos. [DM combos] >>>> and close standing C + Swat DM (qcf x 2 + P). >>> >>>I've done this once by mistake, it ruled though :) >> >> It's a DM combo, so at least Billy has one. >> >The fire wheel seems not to combo at all. I tried twice and they are >pushed out too far for the fire to hit. :( It doesn't combo because it has startup lag and no reach. If you actually hit someone on the ground with it, they barely get pushed back at all, so they'll eat several hits (which is actually quite a lot, if you get them with all of it). >>>A sound Billy Tactic is to power up at the beggining (AM Billy) of a >>>round, then as the power bar is about to go away, use the swat DM on >>>your opponent, even if they are blocking, most players will only >>>blockhis first 2 swings, then drop their block and get hit by his next 2 >>>spins, the SDM gets forgotten about by most opponents. Try it :) >> >> I'll remember that. However, the SDM Swat looks terrifying >> when it's comboed. >> >I'll have to check it out. I hate comboing QCF x2 in Kof games. Use it after a close standing C. Billy's close C is slow enough to give you plenty of time to buffer it. Try it out next time. [Fire Wheel DM] >>>Oh yes Fire Wheel DM is excellent defence against any roll and grab, >>>happy opponent. >> >> Yeah, but it's pretty much useless besides. Is the SDM >> version any different? >> >Well it hurts a lot more (of course) and it has a full screen range on >the flame chucking bit, the fire wheel becomes a fire ball, it will push >a close opponent to the opposite side of the screen. Both DM and SDM are >great anti air moves but won't hurt much if used for that purpose. Yeah, the thing is pretty much there for stuffing roll-behinds. It does shit damage otherwise. I wonder if Athena can still reflect the wheel (I'll bet she can). [Air Defense] >>>> The Spinning Pole Uppercut is a joke, as far as combo-ing it goes; >>> >>>It's DEFINATELY not for combo's, it is great for those who try to jump >> >> I'm not so sure I like Billy having a normal uppercut >> as air defense, and it sucks that it doesn't knock down. >> The Sparrow Drop was a little more interesting, anyway. >> >It's priority is also not the best. :( Yeah, but, you know, at least Billy looks cool. Maybe it knocks down off a crossup combo, or something. [Poking] >>>expecting a ducking A though. >> >> I can't believe they gave him that shit. At least >> his low C is different (not the '95 low C, which >> was ridiculous). >> >What makes you say that? Was 95 low C bad or good? I didn't like Billy >in 95 and didn't see much of him. Billy's low C is the same frames of animation as his low A. Except that it was slightly slower and did a C's worth of damage. Wasn't bufferable either. A long, fast, poke that did a C's worth of damage. A turtle's dream come true. [Super Club Blow, f, d, df + K] >>>> the Super Club Blow (f, d, df + K, the pole-vault off the screen) >>>> doesn't seem too useful for combos, since it doesn't seem to >>>> knock down either; >>> >>>It does have a fair bit of air defence on it on the way up, although it >>>is not invulnerable by any means. >> >> It thought it was mainly for getting over Haohshokokens, >> Galactica Phantoms, etc. I tried using either version in >> combos; neither 'floated' the opponent with the first part, >> like in RBS (where the first part would 'float' the opponent, >> and Billy would smack the opponent on his way down). Combo-ing >> it is pretty much the same as combo-ing the Pole Uppercut: >> kill them with it or die. >> >It also has lost about 1/2 a screen of range >:( It's not even good >against fireballers anymore. Well, you can't do it from all the way across the screen, but the whole idea of it is just to get offscreen for a second, and it still works that way. At least you can still move him around and cancel the hangtime while he's up there. [Billy's Command attacks, fwd + A; fwd + B] >>>> the only other real combo he seems to have >>>> is close C + tap C. Are his command attacks worth using in combos? >>>> They didn't seem to do too much damage. >>> >>>The Fw+B pole vault will successfully clear Iori and Terry's Fireballs >>>and at the right range hit them too, very handy. >> >> Goes over sweeps to, don't it? I thought that's what the >> move is for (like Kim's fwd + A). >> >Anything low I guess. Yeah. Other than that, it's worthless, which is pretty lousy. Well, at least it comes out pretty slowly. >>>The Fw+A is fairly good at picking off close enemys by suprise. It is >>>pretty much unpunnishable too. >> >> Not much else, though. One of the hits really should have >> been bufferable. >> >Exactly my sentiments. Billy needs some combos ! Well, Billy can combo a low A into a low A, and also combo a low A into a defensive crouch, as well as a defensive crouch into a low A (and sometimes even combo another defensive crouch after that!). [Billy's close standing D, unbufferable] >> BTW MAD, have you found any use for Billy's standing D >> (where he climbs up the pole and slides down it)? >> >I forget about it a lot, but the CPU is constantly getting nailed using >it. Hmmm, now you mention it, and after my last KoF 97 session, I can >see a use for it. > >Billy frequently get's cornered and people jump in a lot due to his >Dwn+C missing jumpers overhead a lot, and his DP being shite. The pole >climb should nail people trying to come at you from above. I hope. >Otherwise it's another problem I'm gonna have to work on. It actually seems to work pretty well as air defense, at least the few times I tried it. Makes you wonder why they even bothered with the uppercut and the reversals. [RBFF chain combos that didn't make it] >>>I was also thinking maybe only Tap C works as the move to combo off the >>>command move, as it was his finish to his chain in RBS, and RBFF. >> >> Uh, I doubt it, neither of his command attacks seem >> to be bufferable (you mean his fwd + A, right?). I'll >> try it tomorrow if I get a chance. >> >Fw+A and Fw+B, but they will only stand a chance of comboing if they are >in a chain (e.g. C, fw+A , tap C *maybe*) No dice MAD, the command attacks are not bufferable. Neither hit of the fwd + A is bufferable. >>>If he has any EX Billy in him the Tap C should be interuptable with QCF >>>+ A/C too, but i've tryed none of these out. >> >> I can't believe I didn't think of this. It would be >> awesome if they put this in. You're a genius, MAD. >> >Heh I think of the most evil things but they very rarely are in the >game! :P Yeah, in this case, for example, it isn't. Which makes Billy's combos that much less interesting. [Billy's lousy Reversals, again] >> BTW beware of [fast] 2-hit normals; Billy's counters will sometimes >> get stuffed by the second hit if you counter the first (as >> in RBS). I guess they really, really wanted to depower him. >> >Yeah tell me about it :( > >Also on the subject of depowering. Unlike Mary's dragon throws, Billy's >pole counters can be beaten if he is attacked at very close range. They can be countered just about anywhere. >e.g. Billy special counters and Kyo uses a flame multi at point blank Well, those have autoguards. Kyo or Terry or Ryo or whoever just autoguards the counterhit and plows right through into Billy. >range, Billy gets hit and doesn't counter like he would at long range >>:( Omega Mad Well, it's like RBS--if Billy counters the first hit of a 2-hit normal (Kim's overhead, for example), the reversal will "trigger," but since Billy's counter-attacks have startup lag *and* shit priority, the second hit of that same normal will stuff Billy's counter! Same thing goes for jump-in command throw ticks: I Dragon Raved a Shermie player's jump B, and Billy started to counter, but the hcf + P tick throw afterwards pulled me right out of it. The Shermie player mistakenly thought that I had tried to "reverse" the throw itself. He might as well have been right. -EX Andy