The Failure of our Great Society

Yes, failure



America is not the Kingdom of God, but it is the next best thing, and there is always hope...

And by “hope” I mean that the American people can live by its principles (that is: God’s kingdom principles), to such a point that America can - perhaps - someday become a mirror image of its reality. ‘As in heaven so on earth’ so to speak. And yes, the kingdom of God is a reality and does exist. “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will (not ours) be done on earth as it is in heaven




The Poor Among Us


The world is a fallen place. It is not paradise, it is not the garden of Eden. When man sinned everything changed and the world he lived in became imperfect. God has redeemed the world through Christ and has shown us the way back to Him. All who come to Christ have the Kingdom of God within them and strive to make their own little corner of the world (that is the corner that they have influence over), a reflection of that kingdom reality.

As said before the problem is this world is fallen - really fallen, and everyone is not dealt the same hand in life. Some are born into families that seemingly have every advantage in the world, while most are not, and the vast majority of the world lives in poverty. Sure “Poverty” can be a relative word, but you know it when you see it.




Who Are The Poor?


The poor are everywhere. Get off the main roads and take a ride into the back parts of any city or town and you’ll see them. They are not rich, nor are they middle class, but are obviously in some kind of basic needs and living in hardship. Most have learned to just settle in their condition; some try to get out, but get beaten back in a variety of ways (racism, classism etc.); others do get out , but definitely need a helping hand (from government programs, court ordered remedies, or some basic human understanding and kindness from employers); while others are able to get out solely on their own. A lot do not get out of it, for the gap between the “haves” and the “have nots” is ever increasing in this world. Once again, the term “poverty” can be a relative term, but you know it when you see it.




What God’s Word Says About the Poor


The poor exist. They’re here.

God - who sees everything - sees the poor and has pity on them. The world and its system disregards them and what the world discards God redeems. God loves the poor. The Apostle Paul says that God chooses the poor things of the world to shame the wise. Paul tells Christians to reflect on their past. Not many of you were “wise,” “mighty,” “nobel,” “strong”, but were “foolish,” and “weak”, the “base things” of the world, and “despised” (1 Corinthians 1:26-28)

Most Christians start off either in poverty, or middle class. Most Christians - according to God’s word - are not the upper crust of society (that is “mighty,” “nobel,” “strong”), (though some obviously are, since Paul uses the phrase “not many”). But since God does love the world (which includes the rich), God, in His wisdom chooses the poor and does things in them that the rich will stand up and take notice of, so perhaps they too will come to God and be saved (like in, “wow!” look at the difference in him or her, I want what they have).

The poor exist. Christians of ALL races are among the poor, but not all poor are Christians. Poverty is a fact of life in THIS world.

[And yes, there is a very SPIRITUAL side of poverty too... Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT for theirs is the kingdom of God. But given the fact that the final judgment of the world has more to do with just ones treatment of the Spiritual side of poverty (that is, it also has to do with ones dealing with the Physical side of poverty), one must be careful NOT to down play any responsibility, or obligation one has toward the PHYSICAL aspect of fighting poverty.

Having said that is there a connection - as many TV preachers will tell you - between ones Spiritual condition, and ones Physical reality? Sure, but is there always a connection? Of course not, for example, is it the rich that are entering heaven? Jesus - the author of our salvation - said it’s pretty hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom (it’s easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle). Riches are no guarantee of salvation, nor an accurate measure of ones spiritual condition.

Also, the LACK of riches is no barometer of ones spiritual condition either. Remember Jesus’s story of Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), how Lazarus longed to eat the scraps from the rich man’s table and dogs licked his sores. MOST Christians I know would say something negative about Lazarus’s spiritual condition, yet it was he that went to heaven in the story.





The Reasons for Poverty


Yes, sin can very well be a reason for poverty. Personal sin as well as sin against ones neighbor. The focus of this essay is not to focus on personal sin as the reason for personal poverty (although that is something that needs to be consider), but sin against ones neighbor is the sin I am going to focus on here.

The question is “Who is my neighbor?” Jesus told a story concerning this question in Luke 10. A person was beat up by robbers (a good name for a perpetrator) and a priest walked by, saw him, and left him there (maybe he thought the person deserved it), a Levite walked by too and left him there (religious people are always so busy). A Samaritan then walks by, sees the mans condition - does not judge the man but takes care of him. The question then becomes who was a neighbor to this man? and it’s obvious, the Samaritan. THE MAN WHO SHOWED MERCY. Notice there is nothing in the story as to why this bad thing came upon the victim, that is not the point (maybe he did something, maybe he did nothing). The point is that a non judgmental person came by, saw someone who needed something and met the need.

Remember THIS STORY was in response to the question of what does a person have to do to have eternal life.


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As said before, most poor have learned to just settle in their condition; some try to get out, but get beaten back in a variety of ways (racism, classism etc.) It’s this area of racism and classism I wish to address next.




The Effects of Racism in our Society


I have heard more than once in my life the argument that its been almost 150 years since slavery ended and black people need to ‘get over it’. First let me say that the ONLY THING that ended 150 years ago was slavery, and as recently as 40 years ago Martin Luther King was still fighting for basic human rights for black people. Still today the disproportionate (Yes, disproportionate), number of the poor among the Black population speaks volumes to me as to how much further society needs to go.






The Disproportionate (Yes, Disproportionate),
number of the poor among the Black population.


Number don’t lie, and there’s much documented evidence concerning the truth behind this statement. No matter how you measure it there are MORE THAN twice as many blacks PERCENTAGE WISE below the poverty line as there are then whites. (Click Here for U.S. Census data on Poverty).That is a huge difference and can only be accounted for by one thing.




Case Study, Arcadia Florida

2005



One can go back and forth forever concerning who’s to blame for the poor area of town, but the point remains that such a jaw dropping area should not exist in our society. When I first saw this area of the city (Arcadia is the County Seat of DeSoto County), I was in utter shock that such a place still exists in our great society. I honestly thought this type of poverty “went out with the 60’s.”

The area is still called “The Quarters” by the local white population. Most of the people that live within “The Quarters” are black and live in shacks. An active railroad runs through peoples front yards. Walls from the old black High School still stand (probably 30 years after it was abandoned). Houses (shacks really), that you might think are abandoned... well think again. People do in fact live in them. If you want to see what the south looked like before the civil rights movement come and visit “the Quarters” in Arcadia. It’s a step back in time.


Two Quotes Found on the Internet Concerning Arcadia

After moving from a northern city, Green Bay Wis, to a city near Arcadia of the same population 8 years ago, all I can say is, yes, racism and good ol boy mentality still rule. We go to Arcadia antique shopping with visitors and other than some shabby houses on the way in from the south, outsiders don’t see the bad if they don’t choose to look. In this area workers make a third of the wage for the same work as I saw elsewhere in the country... the prison outside of town (It’s actually within the city limits - ed) has some of the best paying jobs around... this place only has that cool named river (The Peace River - ed) and nature going for it. This a horrible place to raise a family unless you are wealthy...(and if you are not - ed) your children will be exposed to racism, sexism and mostly classism to a degree like blatant Hollywood stereotypeing. This is still the backwords ol' south and I wouldn't have believed, it if I didnt see it.


and another comment found on the net...



My gosh, I thought _I_ had the worst rural Florida address here in bucolic Suwannee County (that's right, folks, the same one Stephen Foster wrote about)! I should have known that somewhere else there was a little southern town and county to knock mine straight out of the box. In a strange way, though, it's comforting -- at least we didn't pick the WORST town and county. I am reminded, though, that a small town in Suwannee County (Branford, population around 700) STILL refers to the all-black section of town as "The Quarters." Yes, indeed, we are STILL antebellum here! When the local (Arcadian - ed) person who told me this first uttered these words ("The Quarters" - ed) , I actually thought she must be kidding ... then I found out she was serious!


Now don’t get me wrong, there are nice parts in the town, and some very nice people, however since the towns adopted motto is “The Best Small Town in Florida” one wonders that if this town is Florida’s BEST small town, what in God’s name do the rest of Florida’s small towns look like? Do native Floridians agree and think that this is what a great small town should look like?

and P.S. Don’t forget to check out De Soto County’s responsibility to its people outside the city limits toward the east (It may still be within Arcadia’s jurisdiction though).





Case Study, Boston

It’s Not Just a Southern Problem



You would think a liberal northern city like Boston (home town of the Kennedy’s), would have been a haven for the black population which was migrating (really fleeing), from the south and its racial attitude. Far from it. The Boston housing authority segregated black people to the point that the forced desegration of the local school system was necessary. In 1974 (which, by the way, was twenty years after Brown vs. Board of Education!), schools were ordered to desegregate (through busing).

And was this practice accepted by liberal northerners? Not at all. Violence and white flight were the order of the day.


Paterson, New Jersey

My own Experience with the Poor Black

Something White People Need to Hear



The worst thing society every did - as far as housing is concerned - was to stack people on top of each other in “projects.”... but this is not my point in this section.

I was born in 1957 in Paterson NJ (a large racially mixed city about 12 miles west from New York City). I grew up in a town called East Paterson (whose name was later changed to Elmwood Park in 1975). East Paterson was a white town separated by a river from Paterson. My High School class was almost all white (a couple of Hispanics and Indians, but that was about it). I myself am white. When I went off to the local college, between semesters (the summer of 1976), I was able to get a federally funded summer job from their job office. The position was as a counselor in a program that was helping the poor children catch up or reinforce what they learned in school the previous year. (More like a camp counselor where part of the morning was dedicated toward education and the rest of the day was dedicated to doing fun things, and going on an occasional trip somewhere).

The job was in Paterson, the city across the river where I grew up.

When I arrived, I honestly felt like I took a plane somewhere - outside this country - and landed in some far away - land locked - isolated - section of the world. Everything was different. Peoples goals were not centered on trying to get ahead, but on survival. Physical survival. Everyone deserves a fair chance of making it in life, but for these poor people (and I do mean poor) they hardly had a chance. Everything was against them. Most of the kids came from broken homes,.... there was... and....

And the homes they lived in were old, very old, and some kids came from the local projects (high rise buildings which actually destroy any sense of community).

It was a horrible situation. You had to see it to believe it, and you know what the worst thing about it was? A lot of these kids were never going to make it out of there, and if they did they probably wouldn’t get very far. And even if, by the grace of God they made it through high school, or learned a trade, or even went to college and got a degree. Would they be accepted in society and be able to get a good paying, livable wage job? (a job necessary to help sustain a whole family?)

Fifteen years after this summer job, in 1991, my wife and I bought a house in a town that is actually about a half a mile - north - from where I used to work as a “camp counselor” (The town is called Prospect Park) . And guess what, in 1991 the town was still - as it had always had been - basically white (and this was just a half a mile north from this area)......

Now Prospect Park’s white makeup is declining . In the 2000 census its racial makeup was about 61% White, 38% Hispanic but only 13% African American (which to me is so surprising since most of the Prospect Park side of the town that borders Paterson is the Black section of Paterson). Five years after this census, in 2005 my wife and I moved to Florida and it seemed to me that no new white people were moving into the Prospect Park anymore. White flight was once again on the move.

And remember, this is Northern New Jersey (and by the way, the racial makeup of the town was not why we left).








Other Minorities


The problem that was exposed in New Orleans is NOT a local New Orleans problem , but a NATIONAL one. There are low income minorities in every city that are basically trapped there by - as George Bush said in his speech at the national cathedral on 9/16/05 “...generations of segregation and discrimination that closed many doors of opportunity

This is so sad, and the fact that “White Flight” is still taking place in this country is further evidence that the racial situation has a long LONG way to go.

Hispanics, are another major group that has been discriminated against in this country. Granted they have not been discriminated against as long as blacks have, but the prejudice is still there. If you need evidence look at the existence of Spanish barrios and ghettos in our major cities. Hispanics are another group that has a large percentage of its people trapped in poverty. According to U.S. Census data almost TWICE as many Hispanics PERCENTAGE WISE live below the poverty line then there are whites. (Click Here for U.S. Census data on Poverty).That is another huge difference.

Also, the sad plight of migrant workers in this country is another thing you might want to look at. All Hispanic, mostly Mexican. Sure many of them are probably here illegally (or maybe not), but how many whites, historically, have entered this country without proper documentation too? If you look you’ll find that a lot of whites grandfathers, and great grandfathers came here without papers - and stayed, hoping for a better life. These workers need help just as any other group of people below the poverty line, especially since many of them have their children with them.

Also, if you look within the “Island Hispanic” population (that is the Caribbean Hispanics) you’ll see that they have a large percentage of blacks within that group who call themselves Hispanics, but are racially black. These people get the worst of both worlds

There are other poor minorities (besides Blacks and Hispanics), that are trapped in their situations too.








The Poor Whites

It’s not just minorities that are trapped in their situations


My brother lives outside Richmond Virginia. When I visit him I have to drive along side some rail road tracks on a highway that is called the “Po White” (yep, that’s its official name). I am told that this highway was where the poor whites (Po Whites), used to live [and I believe it for the poor always seem to live along side the tracks somewhere (for that’s where the cheap land is)].

Poverty that’s found within the white community (the entrenched generational kind), is usually (but certainly not always), the result of classism between the “have’s” and the “have not’s”. Depending on the area of the country you live, poor whites are usually found - not so much in the cities (because their skin color does give them an advantage in getting out, but even so they are there, but not in “white ghettos” - so to speak), but they are more than likely found in trailer parks, renting run down apartments or homes in unfavorable areas, or if they do own a home it’s usually a shabby one out in the middle of nowhere on land their family has owned for generations. Many poor whites do not finish school, and work on the bottom rung of the service industry. They generally look poor (who has money for nice clothes?), unkempt (my guess is justified depression), and can partake of government assistance just as much any poor minority.

All these things are usually picked up by rich, educated, good job whites who as a result don’t associate with them socially if at all. Sometimes middle class whites feel the same way toward them (which is a shame for the Bible says so much concerning the poor of this world).

It’s almost as if the poor whites are a race that is looked down upon by bigoted snobs.

(and let me say this... “classism” exists within EVERY race. You could take the word “White” out of the above section and substitute the word “Black” or “Hispanic” and some of the things I just wrote about the problems within the white community (in regards to class) would be true about some of the things that go on within those communities too. And while I’m at it let me say that - as far as whites blaming all their problems on minorities - every minority could leave this country and you’d still have poverty among whites because of this classism. That’s something to think about


and guess what...




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The educated almost always have an upperhand over the uneducated. Higher Education is not in the cards for a lot of poor whites for they probably don’t have the high school degree necessary to go to college. Owning a home - a great strength of any community as well as a family raising stability - is usually not in the cards either for they more than likely will never have a job capable of paying a mortgage. All the problems associated with minority poverty (drugs, alcohol, teen pregnancy, violence) exist within this segment of society too (Watch the show COPS. Do you ever see them go into a rich neighborhood? Poverty leads to all sorts of problems regardless of race).

A trailer park may be OK for a retired couple, but it is no place to raise a family. Neither is living in a shabby, run down rental or home. The poor whites are trapped, not because of race, but because of their economic situation and all the junk that usually goes with that. In some places of this country the rich have been so unwilling to help that the middle class - which is usually not part of the ‘powers that be’ - have all but disappeared because of the “squeezing” that takes place through the ‘powers that be’ legislation to help the poor (what ever happened to the private charity of the rich? The middle class should be the largest and ‘ever growing’ segment of society. A very large middle class is a sign of a healthy society).

Don’t kid yourself, if the below solution to this problem never gets enacted it could very well be because of this classism (as well as a good deal of bigotry too). Bigotry is usually obvious, but Classism is usually not. Classism is very underrated and is a very underestimated force. It’s something that - in it’s purest form - is NOT bigoted at all for it has to do with money and power - not race (for example, all the rich and powerful in the world can be at a party together and be totally, totally color blind).

When you fight a fight you have to realize that the opposing fighter has TWO hands. This country has been fighting poverty for so long and have been so focused on the opposing fighters right hand (Racism), that MANY never realized that the reason they were still getting clobbered was because the boxer had ANOTHER hand to fight with too - classism. Don’t keep focusing on his right hand, focus on his left too. (And if you’ve found yourself being part of this classism - repent and associate with the lowly).

(And PS there are not enough Blacks or Hispanics in the upper crust of society to say that classism is a reason for the difference in poverty - percentage wise - between whites and minorities. You would need a huge amount of Blacks or Hispanics in the upper part of society to account for that difference (at least double the amount of whites that are there now). Also, it’s been my experience that people coming from disadvantaged backgrounds, generally “remember where they came from” and try to HELP each other up the ladder rather than kick them back down. Yet, classism DOES exist and is still something that needs to be factored into any solution to the problem of poverty).




God’s Kingdom Principles


The treatment of the poor was something the prophets of old pointed out time and time again as a reason judgment came upon a society. In fact it wasn’t just societies treatment of the poor that got them in trouble, but its treatment of the widowed (that is: women without husbands) and the fatherless (that is: orphans), and the alien, that got them in trouble with God too.


“Thus says the Lord of hosts:

Execute true justice,
Show mercy and compassion,
Everyone to his brother.
Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
The alien or the poor.
Let none of you plan evil in his heart
Against his brother.

But they (the people) refused to heed, (and they) shrugged their shoulders, and stopped up their ears so they could not hear. Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts has sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the Lord of hosts.”
Zechariah 7:9,10)


Note the theme the former prophets spoke of ... “executing true justice,” which one may define as
Showing mercy and compassion toward 4 segments of society (the widowed; the fatherless; the alien and the poor. Actually 5 segments, for the phrase “your brother” is broad and can encompass everyone not listed in this breakdown of society, HOWEVER it’s the lowest part of society that God is very concerned with here).

One would think that the prophets centered all their words around obedience to the law, but all the laws of the Old Testament are broken down into only 2 principles in the New Testament, and that is to Love God and Love your neighbor. If do these two things you fulfill all the law in the Old Testament. If you don’t do those two things you don’t.

Again, the treatment of the poor was something the prophets of old pointed out time and time again as a reason judgment came upon a society (as the scripture said, the people refused to “hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts has sent by His Spirit through the former prophets” therefore “great wrath came from the Lord”). And again it wasn’t just societies treatment of the poor that got them in trouble, but societies treatment of the widowed (that is: women without husbands), and the fatherless (that is: orphans), and the alien, that got them in trouble with God too.

God loves the world (which includes everyone), however it’s the worlds lack of mercy and compassion toward these 4 segments of society that gets them in trouble with God time and time again. Why? for it’s these 4 levels of society that are usually the most defenseless.

If society - any society - continues on such an unmercifully path of indifference (or lack of compassion) toward these four segments of society, judgment from God may, and probably will, come upon that society.

It’s the lesson of history (and it’s certainly the lesson of biblical history).


______________________________



A Solution

Actually 4 possible solutions



As said before, most poor have learned to just settle in their condition; some try to get out, but get beaten back in a variety of ways (racism, classism etc.) (and have very poor self-esteem as a result); while others do get out , but definitely need a helping hand (from government programs, court ordered remedies). It’s this last area of a government’s, a benevolent government’s “helping hand” I wish to address.


President Lincoln once said, a good government is “of the people, by the people and FOR the people.” It’s these THREE criteria the define a good government. Take away any one of the three and you have bad government. Again, if the below proposals for fighting poverty fail, all the reasons I gave previously in this essay will enter into the “why” of the failure, but all of those reasons will fall under the failure of one of the three above categories mentioned by President Lincoln. President Lincoln was very wise for his time and went down in history as a great President. May future leaders follow his example of greatness.








Urban Homesteading



As proposed by President Bush in the New Orleans Recovery Speech of 9/15/05 (see quote below). A genus of an idea for it allows people to have all the benefits of homesteading, yet be able to live near an economically viable area where they can make a livable wage. This idea - if implemented nationally by congress - would definitely give low income families a fair start in life, (and hopefully get them out of the ghetto areas of the cities or towns where they live) Again, it’s almost impossible for low income minorities to get out of these areas simply because they are a minority and low-income.

Actually its very hard for any low-income person to get out of these areas regardless of race.

God Bless President Bush (and Congress too). A portion of President Bush’s speech the on Homesteading (from his New Orleans speech) , and what it’s all about is quoted below.

“And to help lower-income citizens in the hurricane region build new and better lives, I also propose that Congress pass an Urban Homesteading Act. Under this approach, we will identify property in the region owned by the federal government and provide building sites to low-income citizens free of charge, through a lottery. In return, they would pledge to build on the lot, with either a mortgage or help from a charitable organization like Habitat for Humanity. Home ownership is one of the great strengths of any community, and it must be a central part of our vision for the revival of this region.” (see below maps)


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Suburban Homesteading



Same reasoning as above except in a more suburban setting. (again see below maps).

People, the fact of “White Flight” can be used to show that things are just not working the way they should. The statistics are there and it’s well documented (the National Census). Well guess what. Most whites flee to the suburbs and there IS federal land in the suburbs (State land too, which is another avenue that can be explored) If Congress won’t act beyond the Urban Homesteading Act a case can be made against this type of thing (white avoidance actually) and brought before the courts. The remedy should be that land should be set aside - in the suburbs - for minorities to offset and combat this continuing problem (and I do think President Bush would be sympathetic toward this type of Homesteading too).

Parts of this country will always remain segregated (with all the baggage that goes with it), if whites keep retreating to the suburbs on their flights of fancy to avoid people of a different skin color. This movement of large segments of white population has got to stop.

But minorities, don’t forget about the Poor Whites. You’ll find that there are non poor white white people that look down on them too (their trash). It’s an economic thing as well as a racial thing. Everyone deserves a chance at making it in this country.

Suburban Homesteading is my favorite form of Homesteading for - like Urban Homesteading - one can still live in an economically viable area, yet have all the benefits of nature surrounding you. The city is really no place to raise a family.

But... you may have to buy yourself a car, ask for a ride, or walk further to the bus stop - to get to work.

Big deal.




And PS: One remedy that minorities (and poor whites) might want to entertain is the “Rent to Own” option. Under this option NO DOWN PAYMENT would be necessary and the “Rent with the Option to Buy” philosophy would be in play. I know this type of program has been suggested in the urban arena, but I for one frown on that because it usually involves housing that cities are in the process of giving up on (that is, it already costs to much money to maintain, However I don’t want to discount this plan for urban areas entirely). The “Rent with the Option to Buy” would be a perfect plan for suburban areas where there is no federal or state land, but there is more than enough private housing for sale. The government could give grants for the down payment to the working poor, and as far as minorities are concerned this would become a perfect chance for them to help stop the advancing tide of white flight. Again, this massive movement of white populations away from minorities has got to stop.


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Rural Homesteading




Same reasoning as Urban Homesteading, except in a more rural setting. Geared toward people who are more agricultural in their makeup (Cattle, crops etc.). [And by the way, what are we saving all this land for? Greenpeace? (again see below maps). This land was bought for, fought for and paid for by the American people over the last two centuries. The people own this land, Congress should give it back to them.

People who’d rather do rural homesteading should be given the necessary time to make the land productive...

Agricultural use of the land is one avenue that can be explored, “corporate” use of the land is another. People can band together to form “company towns” where they could persuade industry to ‘set up shop’ near the new towns or villages. Additional revenue would be made by our government (through taxes) rather than our government spending revenue (collected taxes) continually on programs that really don’t work well - if at all.

Also, Congress and the States should band together and find out whether the large amounts of privately owned land in this country has been obtained legally. There are individuals that own thousands upon thousands of acres. Are these people government employees who have access to information not accessible to the general public? Are they clerks, registrars, attorneys and judges who see “For Sale” information first and buy land at a huge discount? These facts are not hard to find out, and once found out the government can take appropriate measures and confiscate this land for public use.


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Wilderness Homesteading




This is the old form of homesteading where only the strong need apply. People whose makeup is geared toward this type of thing know that they are - for the most part - on their own and help can be more than a day away. Alaska is perfect for these pioneers as well as a good part of the American west. (again see below map). People, there are plenty of areas in this country that still need to be tamed and I know that there are plenty of people willing to do it if given half a chance.




(Click Here for a Good Article on This Subject)

(Click Here for an Interview on the Relationship between Poverty and Lack of Property Ownership)

(Click Here for a Chart on Federal Government Ownership of Land in The United States and Canada. NOTE: This doesn NOT include STATE Ownership of Land)


In Other Words Let's Give the American Poor (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) a Chance

Especially with Land that was Bought for, and paid for
by the American People to be used by, and given to the People.

That's why it was Bought.


Property Ownership is the Basis for Credit.
Credit brings Development, and Development brings Wealth.


Let's Solve this Problem Together































http://www.calinst.org/bulletins/b1115h.htm http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/wales/government/en/1115311668520.html