(This interview took place on May 4, 2002 outside the El-N-Gee Club, across the street on the bench)
Josh:
I’m prepared, I have questions...
Sarah: Excellent.
Josh: At home. (laughs) I have a couple of things I know I’m going
to mention, so I’m good.
Sarah: Ok.
Josh: First, I’m gonna hit this question up because it’s a dumb question
and I want to get it out of the way. Rather than hearing gloating about
Espo, I’d ask you what your relationship is like with them and how you hooked
up as a band with Shred, and just what you think of them because you know every
band on every label always says that they hate their fucking label.
Sarah: Oh, we love them though. We have the best relationship with
Espo Records, so it’s really good.
Josh: I literally did like, thirty interviews and I kept asking bands what they
thought of their label and every band is like, “Oh, we love our label”.
Who is going to say they hate their label?
Sarah: That’s true, I suppose. We really do like our label
though.
Josh: No one’s going to say they hate their label even if they secretly
do.
Sarah: I think the one thing about Espo Records and Shred imparticular is that
he doesn’t say something is going to happen if it’s not going to. He
doesn’t make you promises he can’t keep and that’s so rare in the music
industry or whatever. I’m very excited about that. He’s always been
level with us.
Josh: Well, everyone knows that Espo is great, and if they don’t, then
that’s their problem because they’re missing out on some great music. But
this is my idea, and I’m going to give it to you and then you tell me what you
think.
Sarah: Ok.
Josh: I think that you should go on tour with Moment, the Lot Six and
Rose of Sharon. It should be an Espo tour. Even if you just
play Boston and then here.
(Sarah laughs)
Josh: A two date mini-tour. I mean, don’t you think it’d be... I
don’t want to say more beneficial but, don’t you think it’d be kind of more
beneficial for all of the bands to pool their energy together because it’s not
like you’re on a label with bands that suck.
Sarah: Right, it’s true. Yeah, I’m not really sure why that
hasn’t ever happened. Shred really promotes each band very
seperately. Which is strange because when it comes to Moment, the
Lot Six, us, and he has the Jaded Salingers now, we all would be compatible
enough on a bill, there’s always little things to connect
everybody. But I think the only thing that would be a problem is
that if we went on the road with these bands and not just for two days, it’d be
thirty different people’s schedules to figure out instead of just
five. And that’s usually it, even for us it’s still hard to go on
the road because everybody has jobs and school. But it would
probably be better because there’d be more people to fight with from driving in
the car if you got cranky. It would be excellent.
Josh: There was supposed to be a show in CT once where you were playing
with Moment, and then it got cancelled. It was close. I had two
Espo bands on the same show. But then it got cancelled and I was
like, “No!!!!”.
Sarah: We do play with Moment once in a while because Moment plays every show
in Boston, any d.i.y. show, you see “and Moment”. But I’m not
really sure what’s going on with them right now.
Josh: But I guess my question was- why was that show cancelled? It was
going to be a good show! (laughing)
Sarah: (laughing) I don’t know. Every show we have in
CT gets cancelled. This is like, the second tme we’ve ever played in
CT.
Josh: Because every time you’re supposed to come play in CT, I try to
come see you but you never play.
Sarah: It’s a conspiracy.
Josh: I find out the day before that the show’s cancelled or
something.
Sarah: It could be worse. You could show up wearing a Moment
sweatshirt and no one’s here.
Josh: That’s not funny though because I show up at shows thinking bands
are playing but then they don’t.
Sarah: It’s so disappointing.
Josh: There’s no worse feeling in the world than going to a show psyched
to see a band and then realizing they’re not playing.
Sarah: But then there’s always when you go to a show to see a specific
band and then that band sucks, but then there’s a band you’ve never heard of
and love. I went to see the Owls the other week at the Middle East
and this band called Need New Body opened up-- my new favorite band.
They’re on File 13 Records and they’re amazing. It’s like watching a circus, a
jam band and all of the best musicians you’ve ever seen all at once. I
love it. And then they have a song like, “Everybody’s at the
beach!”. Yeah. Everybody’s dancing around. The singer
was wearing a cape and a mask. And the Owls set was a train
wreck. They couldn’t get through one song, they were breaking
things.
Josh: This is going to be so about nothing.
Sarah: Yeah, where are the probing questions?
Josh: Ok- do you feel it’s difficult to be a female in a male dominated
music scene? No, I don’t wanna ask that.
Sarah: Fair enough. The only thing I’d have to say is that I don’t
think people would treat you badly for being a girl in a band, unless I’m a
girl in a band. I hear people bitching about the male dominated
rock scene and I’d be like, “Whatever”. But then you go on tour and
people are really rude to you and won’t let you into shows because they don’t
believe you’re in the band and you have to have someone else in the band come
and vouch for you. When people are like “Take your shirt off”, it’s like,
where are you from? What’s going on here? (laughing) But, I don’t know, I
guess it probably happens to boys some times too.
Josh: When they tell you to take your shirt off, the best way to combat
that is to say “No, you take your shirt off” and then they get confused.
Sarah: We played with Superchunk one time at the Middle East and this guy
for the whole set was just making that oral sex thing at me, and it’s like, you
paid to come see a show just to be obscene the whole time? I don’t
understand it. But it was so funny it almost was not... I was
insulted but it was like, who are you? It’s not even a good
insult.
Josh: But really, music is music. It’s like, each band, each
CD should really be taken for what it is. You can’t just say, “Well, this
is good but it’s not as good as their first CD”. That’s Kevin from Catch
22’s theory.
Sarah: It’s true.
Josh: With that being said, “Tricked by Cleverness” took a really long
time to come out.
Sarah: Yeah, it sure did. That was partially our fault and then
partially delays within the label because we had been recording with Thom
Monahan who is in the Police Brothers and then I think maybe some other bands
as well, he worked at Slaughterhouse Studioes, so we’d be recording and he’d be
in Europe touring. And then we’d be recording and he’d have to
record some guy from Scotland. And then Thurston Moore would come in and
we’d get bumped from our slot because he’s better than we are.
(laughing) And just with everybody’s schedule, it took us so long to
record the CD, and we did it in pieces. But, really, Thom was the best
producer/engineer we ever worked with. He’s an amazing human being and I
think he really got the best out of everybody. He was patient with
everybody, and he was like, “No, you can do better than that”. And we’re
like, “We can’t”, and he’s like “Come on”. So it was a lot of fun and then by the
time we did get done Shred put out the Moment record, our record, two Lot Six
records and then there’s the Jaded Salingers. So he just like, put out a
ton of stuff at once and is just waiting for people to make money back.
(laughs) No, I could be wrong, but I think there were a few delays there
too and with the packaging... The artwork was saved to a zip disk which some
how “disappeared” and then we had to get it again and the files didn’t work so
we had to change them. It was just a billion delays. We were like,
“Just when is this record coming out?”. We thought we’d be sick of it by
the time it came out.
Josh: Did you have any kind of um... See, I’m good at writing but I suck
at talking. But then I’m going to go home and type this and I’m going to
make myself look so intelligent.
Sarah: I’m going to look really dumb.
Josh: I don’t want to admit it, but I’ll go home and I’ll change the
questions. Like, it will take me an hour just to spit them out but then
I’ll change them to just a few lines like, “Yeah, this is what I meant to
say”.
Sarah: You’re like, “I’m concise and accurate”. (laughs)
Josh: It’s like, “This is how I really speak, I swear, I am not a
dumbass”. (laughs)
Sarah: People are like, “Your interviews are so in depth”.
Josh: Ok, so how do I phrase this... I’m trying to go for the packaging
here. And I don’t want to say that “Tricked by Cleverness” is packaged
like a regular CD because it’s not...
Sarah: Right, but it’s no “Redezevenous With You”.
Josh: But it’s not the notebook. A lot of people won’t call
“Redezvenous With You” by name, they’ll call it “the notebook CD”.
So there was any kind of pressure where you felt you had to top it and make
“Tricked by Cleverness” look like a cake or something?
Sarah: (laughs) Yeah, it was tough because a lot of the attention that
“Redezevenous With You” got was because of its packaging. Radio stations
would get it and be like “What is this crazy thing?” and then play it, so it
did really well on CMJ. Well, not really well, but it was on CMJ in the
tope 200 which was really surprising to us because we were just coming out of
nowhere. With our new record, there was this big elaborate design,
but we got a quote on it, and it was going to cost $15,000 to make however many
copies and we were just like, ready to pair it down and we were all just really
satisfied with the way the record came out. It was like, “Just make it
regular packaging and deal with it”. But, Shred’s been really pushing us
to do more art related things. I go to art college. We’ve been
doing a lot of handscreen posters and we did invitations to our record release
party which was black on black silk screen envelopes with a CD single in it and
ribbon around it.
Josh: Why didn’t I get that?
Sarah: You didn’t come to the record release party.
Josh: I was never invited! No one invites me.
Sarah: It’s true, I was just giving them out on the street.
Josh: You were? No, come on...
Sarah: It’s true.
Josh: I thought I was on the inside. Man, Shred’s getting an
email when I get home. If I knew I would have gone.
Sarah: That would have been nice, ‘cause no one came. There was a
blizzard that night, so people were like, “I want to see you play but there’s
no way I’m leaving my house”.
Josh: See, me, I would have drove three hours in the snow ‘cause I’m a
dumbass.
Sarah: You didn’t get an invitation though.
Josh: So, basically what we get out of this is it’s not about the style
any more, it’s about the substance. It’s not about the notebook,
it’s about the music.
Sarah: I suppose. I wish we had funds to make a record look like a
cake but we don’t. So for now that’ll have to do.
Josh: I was really looking forward to the cake.
Sarah: It’s like, the band jumps out of it like a pop up book.
That’d be amazing.
Josh: I don’t know how you would do that and I don’t know why I said it’d
be a cake. Maybe it’s cause I want cake.
Sarah: And we’re running with it now. It’s about cake.
Josh: It’s all about cake. So do you like cake better with
frosting inside the cake part or fruit inside the cake part?
Sarah: Frosting. I’m a frosting girl myself.
Josh: You don’t like the fruit?
Sarah: If I wanted fruit, I’d have pie. I don’t know if that
matters at all.
Josh: What’s your favorite kind of pie?
Sarah: Well, most recently I had pumpkin pie because I hadn’t had it in
so long. And I’ve been hanging out with this boy and he has never had pie
in his life. So now it’s like, we buy pie all the time so he can always
have pie. It’s like, he never heard of the different kinds of pie
before. He’s like, “There’s no such thing as pumpkin pie”.
It’s like, you’re from Manick, it’s not like you’re from a country that doesn’t
have Thanksgiving. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
But I’m just say, that’s a pumpkin pie occasion.
Josh: I’m going to get letters from those people now. “I don’t have
Thanksgiving, what’s wrong with me?” (laughing)
Sarah: “That girl from the Warren Commission sucks because she’s giving
me shit about Thanksgiving”. But I didn’t know if that was like, a
widespread epidemic- people who don’t eat pie- ‘cause they should. ‘Cause
there are all the fruit pies, and then there’s the French meat pies, Shepard’s
pie, mincemeat pie...
Josh: I eat the little individual pies that you get in the grocery store for
like, a dollar.
Sarah: The Table Top ones maybe?
Josh: Yeah. I eat those ‘cause cherry and blueberry I like. And
then every once in a while I eat pineapple.
Sarah: I always feel like I want pineapple, but it’s like, it’s so bad,
why am I eating it... But I am.
Josh: Yeah, you think “That’s so awful, that’s such a bad idea, who would make
this crap?” (makes chomping noise) And it’s like, before you know it,
it’s gone.
Sarah: When you think about it, strawberry or rhubarb pies aren’t such a
good idea either. Like, who eats rhubarb? Nobody. It’s
not like, a staple food for anyone.
Josh: When you put something in pie form, it’s just...
Sarah: It’s good immediately. Definitely.
Josh: And it’s little, but you think of a pie and then eat the whole
thing and you just feel so accomplished. Ok, I’m done.
Sarah: Fair enough. Enough about pies. The headline is going
to read “Warren Commission likes pie”. (laughing)
Josh: But they won’t make cake.
Sarah: I like cake. Boston cream pie is actually a cake.
Josh: Now, if you get pie and ice cream, it’s pie ala mode. But
have you ever gone to a party and got cake and ice cream? Isn’t that
better than ice cream cake?
Sarah: I don’t know, I like those black things in ice cream cake. They’re
almost like chocolate Nerds. But, honestly, if it weren’t for those, ice
cream cake would suck.
Josh: Right, because otherwise it’s just ice cream. I mean,
what makes ice cream cake cake? I mean, I don’t get it, just because it’s
square and there’s writing on the top, it’s like, “Oh, it’s cake”.
Sarah: I actually worked at Harold’s last summer, so I had to make all
these ice cream cakes all the time and you’d have to bake it in this pan, and
then run hot water over the pan and the cake would drop out onto whatever you
were holding under it. Which was fine for the small cakes, but the big
cakes were actually impossible to catch so I wasted like, $70 cakes all the time.
My boss hated me. He was like, “You’re not allowed to do this any
more”. But we didn’t have the brown crunchy things, we had candy in the
middle. So it was like ice cream and candy, that’s it. And
the people were wild. They were like, “Decorate it with boy
animals”. Like, “I don’t want any birds or butterflies or ponies”, I’m
like, I don’t even know what your definition of a boy animal is. So I put
giraffes and pigs on it. Those are masculine animals. I was
like “Your far too concerned about the sexuality of your animals”. Kids
like animals, they don’t care. I don’t remember being a little girl and
being like, I hate animals that are tough. I just liked animals.
Josh: Except for the really scary ones.
Sarah: Right. Which, I kind of liked, but it was like, I like
them, then I’d run away. So it’s a kind of love/hate relationship
actually.
Josh: I’m afraid of clowns.
Sarah: Oh, me too.
Josh: I’ve had bad experiences with clowns.
Sarah: Me too.
Josh: How come no one likes clowns? Clowns are meant to be funny but
everyone I know is afraid of them, what’s up with that?
Sarah: Because they’re all old men who smell funny. And it’s like,
my experiences with clowns have always been that I’d be shopping for children’s
clothes with my mom and a clown would pop out from behind the rack. And
I’d fall down. That’s not funny. They’d made loud noises and yell
at you a lot, they wear make up... What’s not scary about clowns? I never
met a gentle, kind clown.
Josh: They always force stuff upon you. It’s like, “Who are you?
Let me make you a balloon animal” and it’s like, I don’t want a balloon animal,
it’s just going to pop.
Sarah: Or you’d get a big ridicuous hat you don’t want to wear because
you’re tiny and you’d hate it. Yeah, I am really not a big fan of
clowns.
Josh: The best thing was like, a year or two ago I went to this company
picnic and I didn’t even work for that company so I don’t know how I got there,
but there was this clown talking to everyone and she came over to me. I
was like, I’m older now, I’m not gonna be afraid of clowns. And I was
just like leave me alone clown, and she just walked away.
Sarah: I have trouble with clowns and mascots as well. Big animals
dressed up, I don’t like those either just because it kind of freaks me out a
little bit, they’re large and frightening. They’re not funny even.
You know, I’m not into that so much.
Josh: When I was really, really little, like five or six, I met
Spider-Man at an amusement part, and it was just a guy in a Spider-Man costume,
and I had pictures of it but they some how magically disappeared, but I was
scared to death of Spider-Man. I don’t remember any of it but my mom told
me. It’s like, I loved Spider-Man growing up, and I still do to this day,
and he’s always going to be my hero, but when he was there and I was meeting
him, I was crying and like “no!!!”.
Sarah: I have a friend who met Spider-Man and has pictures as well and
it’s almost obscene. With his tights, you can see all of his business
going on... It’s like, they let him hang out w ith kids? It was so
bad. But he was like, “Oh, I got to go to Marvel Comics and get a tour”,
which is every comic book kid’s dream.
Josh: So, other than characters in costumes, I guess you have a band.
Sarah: Oh yeah, that.
Josh: This is something that’s dumbass, but any way, is there any
signifcance behind the title “Tricked by Cleverness”? I mean, does it
have to do with grifting or maybe like the CD clubs who are like, “12 CDs for only
a penny, just buy eight more”, and then jack up the price to $16.99.
Sarah: Well, it’s actually... You know that band the Misfits... Well, you
know their character with the skull and the hands, well they got that from a
movie called “the Crimson Ghost”, which is a really funny movie that is done in
serial. My ex-roommate had a copy of this movie and it was like, fourteen
parts altogether. And it was about this crimson ghost and these guys who
were trying to beat him because he made some crazy cosmic ray machine or
something, the whole thing’s ridiculous and hysterical. Well, the crimson
ghost makes an escape at one point in the movie and the hero of the movie goes,
“Ahh, we’ve been tricked by cleverness”. So we were like, that’s pretty
funny. Because, obviously, cleverness is meant to trick people, so it’s
redundant just a little.
Josh: Well, it seems like I ask this to every band, but I just need some
clarity, so what does your name mean?
Sarah: Basically because at the time that we were forming, which is close
to five years ago now, everybody was just going through a big JFK conspiracy
phase- just reading about it. We were originally going to be called
Nickelwound because that’s what they call the wound that JFK had after being
shot by the gun man... Gun men. We couldn’t really agree on anything
else. And plus it’s just good to have a reminder that we should be
questioning the government because they do lie to all of us all of the
time.
Josh: About UFOs and aliens.
Sarah: Especially about those things. And war.