Jon wrote:

>Riot Grrl was an entirely >fictitious "scene" as well.

Hmm, not really. Riot Grrl wasn't fictional, but merely one strand of the American DIY/International Pop Underground, which wasn't and isn't a scene as such but more about small indie labels networking without a central power base.



Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Jul 13 10:59:30 BST 2001:

It was also a scene in that bands shared members, equipment, tours, gigs, networks of fans, split singles, and, most importantly, had a unified philosophy.

Sounds like a scene to me - though the actual term may have been invented by the inkies. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Fri Jul 13 11:32:01 BST 2001:

According to:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1436000/1436715.stm

AOL are poised to buy IPC. I wonder what the consequences for the NME will be. Probably not good, I'm thinking. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Ian' on Fri Jul 13 13:23:04 BST 2001:

AOL? And here was me thinking that the NME caouldn't possibly get worse. At least IPC got shot of Fleetway years ago... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bongofury' on Fri Jul 13 13:54:29 BST 2001:

>The music selection is immaterial. The writing is the problem.

Too right! Quality's dropped so far that this weeks issue hasn't bothered with the usual staff/writers list.

As well as those who disappeared during Sutherland's dumbing down/corporate ass-licking exercise (MaConie, Collins & Quantick)what's happened to Keith Cameron (great in NME & on XFM), Swells (seems to have been marginalised to the odd singles review) & Dele Fadele (although he did crop up this weeks reviewing compilations)?

Seem to have been replaced by media studes (all ex-MM) angling for a job with the Grauniad, or clueless failed muso twats like James Oldham (if anyone out there knows him, tell him you used to go to the Morning Star in High Wycombe, & that The Glass Needle sucked even harder than his writing).

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Jul 13 14:04:52 BST 2001:

>As well as those who disappeared during Sutherland's dumbing down/corporate ass-licking exercise (MaConie, Collins & Quantick)

Collins and Maconie left in 1992 (Sutho induction), I think. Andrew certainly did. Quantick stayed till Winter 1995, when his workload at Q and on BBC Radio meant that it his move was overdue. He was also sick of interviewing dull indie bands for a living.

>what's happened to Keith Cameron (great in NME & on XFM)

I *think* he's moved to the monthlies for good.

>Swells (seems to have been marginalised to the odd singles review)

He's always made infrequent contributions. He's a freelancer. He does have a choice in the matter.

>Dele Fadele (although he did crop up this weeks reviewing compilations)?

He's been a lot more active recently. He's been prominent in the live section for the last month or so. Met him whilst I was on my NME visits. Lovely bloke, if a little tired of the office.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Jul 13 14:06:03 BST 2001:

>Too right! Quality's dropped so far that this weeks issue hasn't bothered with the usual staff/writers list.

It's frequently missing from the pages, from time immemorial. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Fri Jul 13 15:06:55 BST 2001:

> Lovely bloke, if a little tired of the office.

Is he still convinced that the French poisoned Ronaldo so that they could win the world cup? At the time there was no way to stop him ranting about this. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'The Lord Privy Toast Rack' on Fri Jul 13 22:02:29 BST 2001:

>According to:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1436000/1436715.stm
>
>AOL are poised to buy IPC. I wonder what the consequences for the NME will be. Probably not good, I'm thinking.

Now Angst will be full of letters from people asking how to work their CD players. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Fri Jul 13 23:29:25 BST 2001:

>Collins and Maconie left in 1992 (Sutho induction), I think. Andrew certainly did.

I think Collins addresses this somewhere above; Collins went to Select and secured Maconie a place, so he left soon afterwards.

>I *think* he's moved to the monthlies for good.

Yes, Cameron is now reviews editor of Mojo and also contributes to Q/Guardian/others (probably).

>He's always made infrequent contributions. He's a freelancer. He does have a choice in the matter.

No, he is winding down his involvement. He spoke to the NUS Media conference a few weeks back and said he was 'moving away' from the NME to concentrate on novels, so interpret that as you wish.

>He's been a lot more active recently. He's been prominent in the live section for the last month or so. Met him whilst I was on my NME visits. Lovely bloke, if a little tired of the office.
>

He also 'moved away' a few years back, and certainly contributes a lot less than the early 90s (reputedly - I wasn't reading it back then, but I think he was one of the main writers whereas even now he's no more than peripheral)

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Fri Jul 13 23:57:11 BST 2001:

i used to love the mark radcliffe 10 till 12 show and listened to it every night religiously. they introduced me to a lot of the music that i love now. i was very proud when they read my name and address out after i had won one of mark kermodes film competitions (henry:portrait of a serial killer). i was even more proud when they took the piss out of my address.

no-one i speak to nowadays remembers the show and when i mention mark or lard they go on about the watered-down breakfast or afternoon shows and i can never explain how much better the late show was.

highlights for me were; collins and maconie, mark lamarr, the bloke out of orange juice who lived in america, their edinburgh shows, some of the poets whose names i forget and just the general excellence of most of the guest and banter.

i see this time as a 'golden age' of radio one, certainly in my life. i remember listening to the chris morris show, fist of fun, alan parkers show and many others at 9.00 and then listening to m&l, often falling asleep to 'little star' by stina nordenstam or some other fantastic record that would never get played elsewhere.

i vaguely remember listening to the last few 'out on blue six' programs that radcliffe used to do before the graveyard shift, on a monday night if memory serves me correct.

im sorry for the length and ramble factor of this post but seeing people talk about this show brought back loads of memories and i felt the urge to splurge them out to people who may actually remember and understand what im talking about. i would also be eternally grateful if anyone who mentioned they were compiling an mp3 cd of the shows would burn me a copy, if they are still reading this far. my email is dadlyborndroy@aol.com if anyone can help Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By '8Ace' on Sat Jul 14 00:09:48 BST 2001:

It was the best radio show I've ever heard (although I could have done without Mark Kermode's ridiculously opinionated, um opinions). There will always be a place in my heart for Mark and Lard whatever they're up to, but that show was incandescent, luminous, magnetic. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Sat Jul 14 12:21:14 BST 2001:

Did anyone think that when M&L finished their show ten minutes early a couple of weeks ago, contained some great banter when they pretended to be off air? I believe they could improve the show immensely by not pre-recording stuff, and not scripting so strictly. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'ollie' on Sat Jul 14 14:05:21 BST 2001:

i agree with everything rich said. there have been some great shows on radio 1 but mark and lard's graveyard slot was one of the best ever. i can't listen to the afternoon show because the drop in quality is so obvious, although i'm sure they are better than any thing else on the station at the moment. i particularly miss the poetry, if only Simon Armitage and Ian MacMillan had gone to the afternoon show. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Tom Adams on Sat Jul 14 14:52:30 BST 2001:

I always used to wish that Nigel would not appear with Hegley.

And the sessions were smashing. and they played music that they liked. I think it's a little easier to perform well in those circumstances. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Sat Jul 14 23:43:43 BST 2001:

>i particularly miss the poetry, if only Simon Armitage and Ian MacMillan had gone to the afternoon show.

thats the buggers, been trying to remember their names all day. i wasnt that big a fan of armitages poems but he was an amusing guest. could have done without jools though (or was it joolz), bit too sixth-form sylvia plath.

i missed john hegley off my list of great guests, and lee and herring, as well as many others i expect.

i also remembered earlier that i still have compilation tapes of stuff recorded off the radio with bits from the show on them, as well as a few songs from the chris morris shows (most memorable is rock the casbah with morris playing along on a stylophone or something).

as for kermodes opinionated views; yes they were a bit too much sometimes but at least you could see he was passionate about his subject and all his opinions were his own. i would take that over most of the film critics around today. and i won a video and t-shirt in one of his competitions, so i cant diss him

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Mr Thingbubble' on Sat Jul 14 23:50:16 BST 2001:

Say what you like about Uncut, but some of the stuff on their CD's is/was ace. 'Mirror, Mirror' by Whiskeytown is the best song I've heard in ages (apart from possibly Sex Life, though that might well be just because it features Sarah Nixey singing about climaxing. Mmm....)

Their reviews are shite though - They gave Love Honour & Obey four stars when it was first released, as I remember.... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Drucius' on Sun Jul 15 23:03:54 BST 2001:

Just to keep the NME kettle boiling, I seem to remember SWells being the asistant ed. for a while....and thus there were endless rantings about Fuzzbox and "Pure Pop". Could the rot have started there? In my younger days I always liked SWells's nonsense
but it did seem to become more formulaic as time passed. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Mon Jul 16 08:30:52 BST 2001:

>Just to keep the NME kettle boiling, I seem to remember SWells being the asistant ed. for a while....

Swells was never assistant anything. He's never been on the staff. Not a team player etc. The management (by which I really mean the editor and senior editorial team) always kept him at arm's length, but were too scared not to give him work. He'd just make such a fuss if you don't throw him the odd bone now and again. Most people burn themselvs out at the NME after about five years. Swells has been writing for the NME for about 16 years. And he too burnt himself out after five. Quite a funny bloke though when he's not showing off. Legend has it that - just before my time - the tracksuit trousers Swells was wearing day in day out were so rank, fetid and stained that James Brown threatened to call in the enviornmental health if he didn't go home and wash/change them. he was also nicknamed "Earthquake Wells" after a photographer in the next room on a foreign trip was unfortunate enough to hear him having noisy sexual intercourse.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Jul 16 12:39:23 BST 2001:

He was on "Top 10:1981", which makes him the new Stuart Maconie. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Drucius' on Mon Jul 16 21:57:27 BST 2001:

I stand corrected...must've read the writers credits wrong.

Still, keeps the thread going, eh? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Tue Jul 17 10:37:43 BST 2001:

http://www.nme.com/NME/External/News/News_Story/0,1004,36518,00.html

Fuck the NME. Fuck 'em with a fucking baseball bat. Stupid, stupid, STUPID bastards. I hope they choke on their fucking Ibiza compilations. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Tue Jul 17 11:02:18 BST 2001:

"Music personalities" seems a bit rich. Phil Collins, yes, the all-purpose he's-shit target. (He is, but that's neither here nor there.) Richard Blackwood, who had a novelty hit. The others listed are not music personalities. And anyway, at least if they'd lured Ian Brown, Crispian Mills and Bobby Gillespie into doing something (not difficult, as they are all gibbering idiots), maybe it would have been rather more useful.

The self-importance of that piece is unbelievable. OK, so someone at C4 or Talkback sent them a tape. Big fucking deal. I don't care if the special is never shown. I really don't. Channel 4's face is not going to be saved by a one-off show. And similarly, the NME isn't going to be saved by running hysterical stories like this one. It's irresponsible, empty toss. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Tue Jul 17 11:49:17 BST 2001:

That link's not working right now. What's the gist of the story? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'kip saunders' on Tue Jul 17 11:50:36 BST 2001:

Does anyone recall their 'Gorillaz World Exclusive' of a few weeks back? It consisted of one still, seemingly taken at random from the new video.The best Thrills piece ever was Jarvis Cocker's DIY column: 'This Is Hardboard'. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Tue Jul 17 13:20:38 BST 2001:

"And anyway, at least if they'd lured Ian Brown, Crispian Mills and Bobby Gillespie into doing something (not difficult, as they are all gibbering idiots), maybe it would have been rather more useful."

Gillespie was last spotted attacking a gig-goer with a mike stand at a J Mascis gig he was guesting at. He really doesn't need anyone else's help to make a tit of himself. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Wed Jul 18 19:45:35 BST 2001:

Anyone else disappointed by the language and terminology that they used to 'preview' the Brass Eye special? "Sickest stunt yet" indeed. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'The Lord Privy Toast Rack' on Wed Jul 18 19:50:06 BST 2001:

Pretty normal for the "news" section of the NME, which has always been written in a curiously detached way. The headlines sometimes have puns, but the main body of each story assumes no intelligence on the part of the reader and never had much in common with the style of the rest of the paper. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Wed Jul 18 19:52:33 BST 2001:

Didn't enjoy the description of Morris as a 'rock n roll comedian'. I said 'ouch!' out loud when I read that bit.

Still, I know this isn't reflective of others' opinions, but I was quite glad to read some hard fact as to the content of the BE special. Sorry... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'venomcocktail@hotmail.com' on Wed Jul 18 23:33:45 BST 2001:

I am compiling a letter to IPC/NME because I want them to at least have omplaints listed, if you have constructive criticism please send to: venomcocktail@hotmail.com

Also, I've cut out bunches of posts on here, if for some reason you DON'T want your post to be copied, let me know and I will make sure to cut it out, otherwise, I would really like to send this stuff along as you folks have made some very good points.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Pat Wallace' on Wed Jul 18 23:43:23 BST 2001:

I've been reading this post for ages never felt like adding anything, but now I feel like I'm not pulling my wait.

About a year ago I started doing some freelance music writing, and at the time, I desperately wanted to get to NME-level - like all good aspiring-muso-twats. Now, though, I couldn't care less.. I'm not so old I don't enjoy dance music - the Prodigy, if they could, were the first band I ever loved - but to me (and I know this is way off-message) there is good dance music and bad dance music. And it's not neccessarily a straightforward warp/happy hardcore split. The NME has never been about music, it's about ideology, and it makes me sad that they've abandoned this in favour of covering scenes just to sell copies - a move that will never work, because to the non-readers, the NME smells like a stinky glass of cider and blackcurrant left behind after a half man half biscuit gig at the Mean Fiddler. The 'cocaine breasts' issue was a horrific low, one of only two occasions in the last five years I've left the paper on the shelf (the other being the spring hip-ho issue - maybe ten years ago, guys..)

What's my point? Who knows. The NME makes me angry because it made me who I am today, and now we don't have anything in common; I didn't change, but somewhere along the line we drifted apart..



And I blame that cunt Sutherland

(PS - James OLdham, to his credit, was so right about Primal Scream's XTRMNTR - the november before release, he interviewed Gillespie and basically wrote that he wasn't walking it like he was talking it. And watching their fucking dull live shows in the spring, Oldham was vindicated in quite some fashion) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Thu Jul 19 21:28:43 BST 2001:

>there is good dance music and bad dance music. And it's not neccessarily a straightforward warp/happy hardcore split.

And with all that Ibiza / Ayia Napa stuff NME has lodged itself firmly in the 'bad' camp. The problem is, I doubt many of the readers understands the difference between, say, Herbert or Luomo or Photek as opposed to whatever crap Ministry Of Sound CD they hear from a car stereo in the street. Admittedly, their dance coverage has always seemed pretty clueless, but at least they made a pretence towards covering interesting, leftfield stuff. But Ibiza? Pathetic.

And I find Happy Hardcore less unpleasant than the relentless rise of interchangeable, shallow superclubs fuelled on mediocre obscenely overpaid Radio 1-approved DJs knee-deep in cocaine Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Ash-23' on Fri Jul 20 21:57:27 BST 2001:

If there is a difference between Ayia Napa and Ibiza stylee music, then my ears cannot distinguish it.

And, to be honest, if there is one, I couldn't really care less as this music says nothing to me about my life. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Fri Jul 20 23:04:33 BST 2001:

>If there is a difference between Ayia Napa and Ibiza stylee music, then my ears cannot distinguish it.
>
>And, to be honest, if there is one, I couldn't really care less as this music says nothing to me about my life.

Now, if I am reading this correctly, then this is the point I was trying to make. Regardless of the relatively large gulf in sound between Ibiza and Ayia N (4/4 vs 2-step), quality-wise they are pretty much indistinguishable in their poorness. I mentioned Herbert, Photek, Luomo, because these all make 'house' music that clearly is made in a cerebral, studio-based way, not to appeal to the unthinking Saturday-night masses. They can (or should) be able to sit in the pages of both The Wire and Ministry, but clearly belong to the former first and foremost, in the same way as Detroit techno would have done. The divide of good/bad dance music is NOT Ibiza/Ayia Napa in any way - the only poor analogy I can think of is that they are akin to Velvet Soup and The Office, different from one another but both equally rubbish. But to judge and dismiss all comedy on the basis of these would be sheer foolishness.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Fri Jul 20 23:14:07 BST 2001:

>And, to be honest, if there is one, I couldn't really care less as this music says nothing to me about my life.

Assuming this is a serious point and not just a deliberate Smiths reference - although I care not one iota for Ibiza or Ayia Napa - I've never understood this idea. Probably my favourite LP I own is Social Living by Burning Spear - what does a 25 year old roots album - essentially a concept album on Garveyism and Rastafari - by a committed rastafarian say about my life as a student on the south coast of England? Would I want to listen to an album about my life of being fairly well educated, healthy, able to get work easily, having a roof over my head and having no real problems to speak of? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Ash-23' on Sat Jul 21 11:09:21 BST 2001:

It was both serious point and Smiths reference; as I was writing, the line came into my head an I thought it fitted quite well.

Whenever I hear Ibiza or Ayia Napa style music on the radio, it just does nothing at all for me. It doesn't engage me in any way. The only new music that really gets me going is the stuff by Pop Threat and Ciccone. There's plenty that I'll hum along to, but little that I really care about (apart from these two, the track that's really grabbed my attention this year is a 13 (ish) year old Pixies demo that I found on one of those file sharing sites. Just a bloke and a guitar.).

Maybe I'm just too out of touch. Subject: Everett True lives....
Posted By 'Mr Thingbubble' on Sun Jul 22 00:11:53 BST 2001:

http://www.dominorecordco.com/news/etipu/005.shtml

Is this the person you were talking about? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'SE1' on Sun Jul 22 15:47:42 BST 2001:

I wonder if he still fancies Alison Statton.

He's right, though. It's a wonderful record. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Tue Jul 24 02:44:50 BST 2001:

On a more general point, how is it that the NME (which used to take around 45 minutes to read from cover to cover) now seems to take roughly one-tenth of the time to scan? This is not my ageing process, merely a reflection of the shockingly dull writing contained within its pages. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Tue Jul 24 09:08:56 BST 2001:

And that they don't have proper articles in it anymore. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Jul 25 20:11:34 BST 2001:

Oh look, i see they've finally bothered to review Luke Haines album, only about 4 weeks too late.
Actually, that's just a distraction for me from the main 'special' issue.Riots are wrong kids. Let's ask DJ pied piper and some faceless indie people what they think. Great. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Wed Jul 25 20:14:11 BST 2001:

Is that really what they're doing this week? Jesus. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Wed Jul 25 20:19:57 BST 2001:

The flippancy with which they are treating race riots is a little infuriating. "There's a riot going on... so where are you?" is their tagline, which suggests to me that they think it's all a big game.

Speaking as someone who lives in a city which in some areas and some respects is *still* recovering from riots that took place twenty years ago, I don't think that the topic should be written about in such a glib and sensation-seeking manner. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Jul 25 20:22:30 BST 2001:

I think my home town (huddersfield) was possibly going to be where it all kicked off next (or so a load of panicking people who lived there would have you believe). If i see that Steven Wells round here, i kick his face in. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Wed Jul 25 21:11:55 BST 2001:

The actual item on the race riots isn't too bad by current NME standards, although the ridiculous presentation ("BRITAIN DIVIDED" screams the header; "Britain not divided at all" says the article, quietly) and the asking the bloke out of Elbow what he thinks is... well...

There's a handy preview of the repeats of H2G2 as well:

"Shown to mark the death of author Douglas Adams earlier this year, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy will thrive as long as chemistry students walk the earth. Probably only third to Monty Python and Blackadder in the League Table of Irritatingly Quotable Catchphrases, the story of Ford Prefect and Arthur Dent has endured well. Thom Yorke will probably be tuning in to this - after all, there's a character called Marvin the Paranoid Android..."

For those of you who don't read it any more. Thought you'd appreciate it. Oh, and Matthew Collings' "Hello Culture" is "excellent" and "inherently cool" and not "bilge", which is useful to know. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jack Welsby' on Wed Jul 25 22:38:27 BST 2001:

>"Thom Yorke will probably be tuning in to this - after all, there's a character called Marvin the Paranoid Android..."

I'm back working at NME again next week, by the way.

I know that the current long-term NME subs don't have a big in-depth knowledge of comedy. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Thu Jul 26 09:25:39 BST 2001:

Riots. I know what they're doing. We never did riots in my day (1988-1992) but the week we decided to "expose" Morrissey as a racist gave us all a buzz in the office - it was like being "proper journalists" for a rare couple of days as we pieced together what was, if not an actual "news" story, certainly more vital than just putting an interview with Kingmaker on the cover. Being a music journalist is not being a journalist - a painful truth we all knew - it's an easy, cossetted, spoon-fed life of Riley, so when the chance comes to do something "newsy", no matter how anodyne and forced it looks to us on the outside, the staff of pale young men will have got a real kick out of doing it. They probably all fell back and had a post-coital cigarette after sending the issue off to the printers, as if they were working for an underground Jewish paper during the first days of the Nazi era.

It's still bollocks though. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Thu Jul 26 10:27:32 BST 2001:

That's exactly the impression I came away from it with - that they were all overawed at getting the chance to try their hand at 'real' journalism instead of just making up non-stories about Radiohead all the time. The irony is that the end result was only 'real' journalism in that it reached the same depths of inconclusiveness and point-missing that you might expect if Heat were to write about race riots.

The fact is that this situation _does_ need incisive coverage, but treating it as something fashionable and placing it in a 'historical context' (which they attempt to do) will not help anyone.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Thu Jul 26 11:20:55 BST 2001:

>The irony is that the end result was only 'real' journalism in that it reached the same depths of inconclusiveness and point-missing that you might expect if Heat were to write about race riots.

I've just flicked through the issue concerned, and you've hit the nail on the head. There's something slightly sinister about the NME's love of urban disorder - a nasty love of the rebel aesthetic rather than a genuine acknowledgement of the problem. They think it's all a bit Clash, don't they?

Bobby Gillespie is a recent proponent of the same idiotic mentality. Horrible swaggering 'glamour politics' and lame attempts to create outrage with ill-thought out statements.

>The fact is that this situation _does_ need incisive coverage, but treating it as something fashionable and placing it in a 'historical context' (which they attempt to do) will not help anyone.

Exactly. The NME has always treated politics as a fashion thing since I first looked at a copy, circa 1989. Steven Wells is a perfect example.

Left-wing politics shouldn't need to be cool. They make rational sense. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Jul 26 11:50:18 BST 2001:

"We never did riots in my day (1988-1992) but the week we decided to "expose" Morrissey as a racist gave us all a buzz in the office"

Andrew, something I've wanted to point out for a long while is that your review of "Your Arsenal" (pre-Finsbury Park) did NOT say that "NF Disco" was a racist song... but you didn't say anymore once the "flirting with fascism" party line on Morrissey was established. Was there any actual debate on that?

I heard from someone who attended the gig that Morrissey got the flag out to taunt the skinheads who were heckling him, in a "look, it's my flag too, nerr" sort-of way. Madness were laughing at this offstage too, appearently.

Incidentally, I thought "Your Arsenal" was mostly cobblers (the one before it was atrocious), but the witch hunt over THAT song was a pure example of what SOTCAA call "safety in numbers" - an official line gets taken up, and everyone jumps in without thinking.

Check Select magazine's issue reviewing the album (pre-FP gig) - Steve Punt and a load of other people failed to attack it. Punt actually said he thought it was a very thoughtful anti-racist song - which it was. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Jul 26 13:18:19 BST 2001:

The initial feel of the NF onslaught from the press was surely that Morrissey was dabbling with a risky subject in a frequently innocuous way. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Jul 26 14:24:34 BST 2001:

No, the point I'm trying to make is that the press didn't mind the song when they first heard it. Then they got a picture of him with a Union Jack and immediately the official line was that it was a dangerous racist song (earlier opinions instantly wiped from history, '1984'-style). Yet the story of the flag incident was completely different from the way it was written up anyway.

Dig up Ian McCann's review of the 2nd day of Madstock, where he comments on M's non-showing: it was a silly idea of him to do the gig and he got his comeuppance by being *rejected* by the frontline audience. But that undermines the line that he was now ensconsed in NF territory.

I entirely agree that Morrissey was stupid not to go out and do interviews straight away. He was stupid to do the gig in the first place. But, in so far as it was an instance of NME doing 'real' journalism, it was the 'real' journalism of a News Of The World campaign - ie. change their mind overnight, never mention previous opinions, pile on the outrage, etc. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Thu Jul 26 15:03:43 BST 2001:

I do seem to recall that the original review of "Your Arsenal" singled out 'We'll Let You Know' and 'National Front Disco' as songs that were patently comments on racism when they were listened to with the accompaniment of the lyric sheet, which inserted quotation marks in relevant and important places, but that this did not come across properly in the actual recorded songs, and advised Morrissey to proceed with caution... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Thu Jul 26 15:41:34 BST 2001:

I never said the Morrissey witch-hunt issue was real journalism, Jon. I said it was "real" journalism, ie. closer to journalism than the shit we usually did. I was at Madstock and the crowd were pretty dodgy, some of them - fat, middle-aged skins who looked like they hadn't come out of their North London pub since Madness's heyday. Whether Moz is/was a racist or not was less important than the fact that he was flirting with far right imagery - like a cultural tourist - and not going on record about his reasons, or his real feelings. He could have stopped that cover story with one statement. He chose to remain enigmatic and distant, compounding his error. There was an artificial excitement in the office over those two days (we dropped Kylie from the cover for Moz you know!) At first, as features editor, I refused to get involved, but I was ordered by my boss into the big emergency staff meeting, and once the decision was made, it was up to the senior staff (me, Danny Kelly and Stuart Maconie) to get the copy done, along with an excellent piece by Dele Fadele who is black and could therefore offer a perspective none of us NME white boys could. (Dele was furious about Moz's actions and needed no coercion to write.) All I did was compile Morrissey's faux-racist quotes from every interview he'd ever done, and collate the lyrics. My own personal opinion never appeared, but I was part of the staff and stood by the issue. It asked questions of an increasingly remote but still hugely influential artist who refused to answer them. There are very few issues of NME from that period that anybody remembers let alone still talks about. We did our job.

Then Stuart and I left and "reclaimed" the Union Jack for the Select British issue. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Steve Berry on Thu Jul 26 16:23:58 BST 2001:

>Whether Moz is/was a racist or not was less important than the fact that he was flirting with far right imagery - like a cultural tourist - and not going on record about his reasons, or his real feelings.

Didn't he just wave a Union Flag around on stage at a Madness concert? Did I miss something? Seriously.

>He could have stopped that cover story with one statement. He chose to remain enigmatic and distant, compounding his error.

I *bet* that really got everyone's backs up.

>All I did was compile Morrissey's faux-racist quotes from every interview he'd ever done, and collate the lyrics.

'Bengali In Platforms' is way racist, but that was a cock-up, according to La Moz, who reckons he made up all the lyrics on the spot for that album. 'NFD' wasn't racist at all. To accuse it of being such is clearly the mark of someone who never got past the title (and made up their own theory about what the song is about).

>Then Stuart and I left and "reclaimed" the Union Jack for the Select British issue.

Didn't Geri beat you to it? Actually, that's one of the few issues I've got left. Wasn't there an inflatable pop star gift stuck on the cover?

Cheerio Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Thu Jul 26 16:32:45 BST 2001:

>>Then Stuart and I left and "reclaimed" the Union Jack for the Select British issue.
>
>Didn't Geri beat you to it? Actually, that's one of the few issues I've got left. Wasn't there an inflatable pop star gift stuck on the cover?

I think he was probably referring to the notorious "Yanks Go Home"/"Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr. Cobain" issue from 1993.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Steve Berry on Thu Jul 26 16:50:13 BST 2001:

>I think he was probably referring to the notorious "Yanks Go Home"/"Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr. Cobain" issue from 1993.

Oh, okay. Which is funny, 'cos the one I've got (which I think had Suede on the front) actually *had* an inflatable Kurt Cobain on it!

Cheerio Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Jul 26 18:11:45 BST 2001:

Andrew,

1. You had to collate "faux-racist" past quotes from Morrissey. Quite right, there have been some... "All reggae is vile", "To get in the top 40 these days you have to be black". But they happened a long while before '92 - why didn't you have a problem? It should have been addressed and settled long before. But Moz was an NME hero, so that line was kept on the back burner. Until it gets brought back to establish a new orthodoxy. And points that challenge that new orthodoxy get glossed over in the same way (points such as what happened at Madstock, non-outraged initial reactions to "Your Arsenal", etc.) Was Sutherland the editor at that point, BTW?

2. Interesting that people here condemn the very idea of covering the topic of the NF. By the same logic, Brass Eye Special must be reprehensible, without any of us needing to see it.

3. "National Front Disco" is about a lonely teenager who gets drawn to the NF because it offers a sense of belonging. He is wrong to do that, but the song is exploring the motivation for joining such a movement. I would say the exuberance of the choruses (reflecting the excitement of being in "the movement") are equally set off with the lamenting tone of the verses that indicate that it is domestic estrangement that makes "the movement" attractive (not any clear idea of what "the cause" might mean), and so the comment is made that NF participation is a form of immaturity. It certainly isn't endorsing it as a political expression. But the original Collins review did point out that the lyric sheet (not included) made this clearer than the track itself.

4. "Bengali In Platforms" is narrated from the point of view of a liberal who is in fact a racist. The point is just that he gives himself away. But again, it works better on the page than as a pop song.

5. Most of the rest of "Your Arsenal" is pure self-obsessed twaddle, which curiously got positive reviews. I'd say NFD was the only bit that showed genuine lyrical sophistication that the author had long been lauded for. But it could have done with another draft.

7. The earlier, "faux-racist" quotes were stupid and ignorant and he should have been made to answer for them. But the claim that actual songs are racist is wrong.

8. He was allowed to get away with them because he was an NME hero. Shortly after FP there was the hoohah over Nicky Wire's Stipe/AIDS comment. Funnily enough, Rob Newman didn't get ticked off for *his* comments on Freddy Mercury during the recent Newman & Baddiel tour - but they were cover stars, they were the flavour of the month.

9. Nowadays the received wisdom (repeated, for example, in NME last December) is that Morrissey showed his true colours by trying to win favour from a far-right crowd. Which is not what happened, so I've been told. And it doesn't fit with the actual songs that were instantly villified. And were not so villified before the incident.

An official line emerges, and suddenly there can't be any disagreement. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'The Lord Privy Toast Rack' on Thu Jul 26 21:24:58 BST 2001:

It's great to see this belated outpouring of anger at that Morrissey-racism story.

My reaction at the time was to dismiss the NME as whipping up a story out of nothing at all. What Andrew is now saying that this was basically correct. The NME was filled with juciy copy written with a terribly right-on superior tone, but it was in fact a journalistic game. "Let's get Morrissey for flirting with a dangerous symbol of nationalism" (as previously flirted with by the Jam, Slade, T Rex, The Who, etc., flagrant NAZIs, the lot of them.)

New magazine, new readers, new rules - suddenly Brett Anderson is clumsily pasted on to our nation's wonderful flag! Britain is great again because look! Echobelly!

Which use of the Union Jack would you say was the dumbest?

I hold to this day that Morrissey was practically *ridiculing* skinheads as amusing characters from old films and books.

Ignoring the NME was a perfectly valid response and proves nothing at all, does it?

Hope we can clear this up at last! Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Ignatius J Reilly on Fri Jul 27 00:15:56 BST 2001:

Hmmm... I think a lot of people here are letting Mozzer off a little lightly.

1 - Am slightly puzzled by the description of the song 'Bengali In Platforms' as being written from a racist liberal's perspective. Absolutely no indication of that in the song - and what about those vile lines about "life is hard enough when you belong here" (i.e. go home paki).

2 - Morrissey issued a press release concerning the album Maladjusted with the pseudonym Stoney Hando. Hando is the name of the lead skinhead character in the 1992 Australian film "Romper Stomper".

surely a little explanation wouldn't have been amiss? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'The Lord Privy Toast Rack' on Fri Jul 27 00:21:29 BST 2001:

>Hmmm... I think a lot of people here are letting Mozzer off a little lightly.
>
>1 - Am slightly puzzled by the description of the song 'Bengali In Platforms' as being written from a racist liberal's perspective. Absolutely no indication of that in the song - and what about those vile lines about "life is hard enough when you belong here" (i.e. go home paki).

How would you compare it to (say) Derek and Clive talking about coons and so on?

>2 - Morrissey issued a press release concerning the album Maladjusted with the pseudonym Stoney Hando. Hando is the name of the lead skinhead character in the 1992 Australian film "Romper Stomper".

An ironic reference to the previous whipped up controversy? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Pat Wallace' on Fri Jul 27 01:52:29 BST 2001:

Hey, I'm too young to talk about Morrisey..

But I do want to talk about the riot issue. I don't know if any of you ever see the Irish mag 'Hot Press', but it's always been more of a youth culture zine than a music thing, but I've always thought it did a pretty good, if slightly over earnest job of highlighting political issues that Ireland's notoriously conservative media ignore. Things like dublin's heroin problem, the role of the gay community in ireland, recent problems with racism and refugees, the obvious terrorism issues and the horrific state of Dublin's Mountjoy prison.

Now, given that, I always thought the NME was missing a beat. Remember when Diana died, and to the NME's credit it was the -only- mass media publication not to toe the party line. Even the fucking Guardian pretended for a while. That was when I really went for the NME in a big way.

But given the ill-thought out, late attempt to tackle the riots, maybe they should stick to what they.. know.



Incidentally, Wells' little digs at Radio 4 really infuriated me. Not sure why.. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Fri Jul 27 02:10:08 BST 2001:

But didn't NME run a story the immediate Tue/Wednesday after Diana died voicing trepidation that, following this 'tragic loss' (or words similar) meeja attention would now transfer to Noel G and his ilk? Whatever, I certainly don't remember it being anything other than a line-toing, 'we're all in mourning'-type piece.


The following week, of course, it had already become fashionable to state your boredom with Diana-mourning. It was only then that they published their boring anti-Candle in the Wind piece.

Radical or what? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Pat Wallace' on Fri Jul 27 02:16:46 BST 2001:

I don't remember that.. going home tomorrow, must check big pile of old NME's..

Hope I haven't been re-writing history... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Fri Jul 27 02:30:29 BST 2001:

If it's any help in finding it, I do remember Primal Scream being on the cover. And the Diana aspect was a very minor part of the story, but I certainly remember it being a fairly non-threatening, 'aren't we all shocked and saddened by this tragedy'-type one. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'The Lord Privy Toast Rack' on Fri Jul 27 10:02:20 BST 2001:

>If it's any help in finding it, I do remember Primal Scream being on the cover. And the Diana aspect was a very minor part of the story, but I certainly remember it being a fairly non-threatening, 'aren't we all shocked and saddened by this tragedy'-type one.

Yes. And then they read Private Eye and thought "Oh shit, we don't look cool at all." I bet they considered doing a cover of her head stuck on a picture of Jesus on the cross with the headline "HAPPY NOW, ELTON?" to try and make amends and look more rock'n'roll. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Fri Jul 27 13:28:40 BST 2001:

"Remember when Diana died, and to the NME's credit it was the -only- mass media publication not to toe the party line."

Apart from Private Eye. And, er, The Spectator. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Sat Jul 28 00:43:08 BST 2001:

>Now, given that, I always thought the NME was missing a beat. Remember when Diana died, and to the NME's credit it was the -only- mass media publication not to toe the party line. Even the fucking Guardian pretended for a while. That was when I really went for the NME in a big way.
>
Private Eye had no time for such sentiments either. And at least they didn't try to push The Verve's The Drugs Don't Work as some kind of 'real' alternative to Elton's Goodbye English Rose (truly embarrassing editorial about this at the time).

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Sat Jul 28 00:44:32 BST 2001:

Note to self: must read all postings in thread before posting own message. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Mon Jul 30 13:40:47 BST 2001:

Note to Andrew Collins: must look for old thread before starting new one. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Mooog' on Mon Jul 30 14:34:16 BST 2001:

"They've always done this, though..."

They certainly have. When I spent two weeks working freelance at NME (two of the worst working weeks of my life) I remember being in a 'news' meeting with the then news editor and editor (Steve Sutherland). News Editor and Editor decided there was no news and so Steve said, "Right, we'll have to make something up then. What can we kick off?" Or words to that effect.

You see, there just aren't enough real news events happening in the UK music scene to feed a weekly. In that moment I realised half the news I'd read in my student years worshiping the NME was all bullshit. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Ignatius J Reilly on Mon Jul 30 15:01:23 BST 2001:

I heard a rumour (from a generally reliable source!!!) that NME was going monthly in September, basically giving up its weekly niche to compete against Q.

I reckon they'll be on a hiding-to-nothing (one of the only virtues of the rag is that it's at least weekly). Anyone else hear anything similar? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Mon Jul 30 15:07:32 BST 2001:

>I reckon they'll be on a hiding-to-nothing (one of the only virtues of the rag is that it's at least weekly). Anyone else hear anything similar?

Yes, on a news link a hundred-or-two posts ago.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Mon Jul 30 15:18:27 BST 2001:

>>I reckon they'll be on a hiding-to-nothing (one of the only virtues of the rag is that it's at least weekly). Anyone else hear anything similar?
>
>Yes, on a news link a hundred-or-two posts ago.

Is that the Guardian on-line article that got posted (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4211344,00.html)?

It only says there's a possibility of a design in the style of "bi-monthly music magazine, Rolling Stone", not that it's going monthly...

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Mon Jul 30 16:29:58 BST 2001:

>Note to Andrew Collins: must look for old thread before starting new one.

Where are the toilets?

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'smackdouble' on Mon Jul 30 18:56:39 BST 2001:

Is it too late to say I hate the new masthead? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Peter O'Toasterblast' on Mon Jul 30 19:03:53 BST 2001:

Andy-baby, was the Morrissey racism story a load of old bullshit or not? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Tue Jul 31 00:41:26 BST 2001:

>Andy-baby, was the Morrissey racism story a load of old bullshit or not?

We reported the facts (flag, fat skins, dodgy lyrics), added some conjecture, a dash of opinion, joined the dots and waited for a denial. None was forthcoming. Et voila! The most memorable NME of the entire 80s and 90s. (Like, which other ones are we still talking about - and don't mention the Teenage Suicide issue!)

Do you call that bullshit? I call it filling a weekly newspaper. Like, if nobody had anything to say round here for a whole week, it wouldn't matter. An empty NME would be noticed.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Peter O'Toasterblast' on Tue Jul 31 00:50:22 BST 2001:

>I call it filling a weekly newspaper. Like, if nobody had anything to say round here for a whole week, it wouldn't matter. An empty NME would be noticed.

It's okay, I understand. Gotta fill it with something, right? If there aren't enough facts, how about a little fiction? Who's gonna know? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'SE1' on Tue Jul 31 08:31:57 BST 2001:

I'm not sure i can bear reading the whole thread again to see whether it's been mentioned before – what about the "exposure" of Factory records as Fascist during the 80s sometime, including (I believe) the accusation that A Certain Ratio's name was an allusion to racial purity (whereas it's a line from The True Wheel by Eno)?

Didn't a C4 programme have Tony Wilson on to "answer" these charges (probably put together by the SWP-member office junior during a slow lunchtime)? Since the occasion was used to ttry to promote ACR, it's also possible that it was part of Wilson's macchiavellian plan.

Or something like that. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Wed Aug 1 12:53:41 BST 2001:

its good to see that this weeks NME is as up with the times as ever, lifting the lid on a hot new craze called 'bootlegging' which usually consists of mixing 2 records together and putting out on white label. you know, like they have been doing for about 15 years now

NME, down wiv da kidz Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 1 13:12:20 BST 2001:

From nme.com:

"A Woolworths spokeswoman told NME.COM: "The Strokes' album has been queried, because we are a company that promotes family values. It could be embarrassing if a child was buying Bob The Builder's single and saw The Strokes' album next to it. It is not explicit in any way but we do have to think about who our customers are - we don't want to upset any parents." "

Why would any sensible child want to buy a crappy record by The Strokes? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 2 13:21:00 BST 2001:

>its good to see that this weeks NME is as up with the times as ever, lifting the lid on a hot new craze called 'bootlegging' which usually consists of mixing 2 records together and putting out on white label. you know, like they have been doing for about 15 years now
>
>NME, down wiv da kidz

First bootleg in the 'traditional' sense sighted in the late 1960s - "The Great White Wonder", a collection of unreleased rehearsal takes of songs by Bob Dylan, who I believe is probably viewed as some kind of irrelevancy from the past by the text-message fixated music journos of today with their finger on the cultural pulse.

I'll be off to find that elusive bootleg mixing Edward VII's abdication speech over the top of 'Do The Bartman', then...
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 2 13:22:47 BST 2001:

This, I have to say, is a very disturbing development, and is tantamount to censorship on the basis of public image. Woolworths, it would seem, only stock what they would want to be seen to be selling. So how many other stores is this worrying practice in operation in? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Thu Aug 2 13:56:08 BST 2001:

A few years back, I remember reading that Woolies were only selling singles that had already been put on Radio 1's A-list. Don't know if that's still the case. Probably not, if The Strokes are on R1's A-list... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Aug 2 14:07:43 BST 2001:

Hey Justin! Urgent message in your mailbox! Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 2 15:45:47 BST 2001:

It's the Strokes' album, that features the naughty picture. Their singles actually look quite boring. And sound it, too. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 2 15:49:10 BST 2001:

I like The Strokes, and even if I didn't, I wouldn't see that as any reason to support corporate censorship. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Fri Aug 3 01:25:04 BST 2001:

As far as i remember, Woolworths only stock records that are 99% certain to enter the top 40 - as do supermarkets and places like that, and all these places of course, contribute to the figures that make up the top40. So the Strokes album should be stcoked in that case. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Peter O'Toasterblast' on Fri Aug 3 07:30:57 BST 2001:

>As far as i remember, Woolworths only stock records that are 99% certain to enter the top 40 - as do supermarkets and places like that, and all these places of course, contribute to the figures that make up the top40. So the Strokes album should be stcoked in that case.

They also stock "classics" such as Life by Simply Red and Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Peter O'Toasterblast' on Fri Aug 3 07:32:15 BST 2001:

That reminds me, wasn't there a hilarious Radio 1 poll of the best 100 albums of all time in about 1992/93, with a Simply Red album beating Pepper to the top spot?
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Fri Aug 3 10:00:31 BST 2001:

>I like The Strokes, and even if I didn't, I wouldn't see that as any reason to support corporate censorship.

It's not corporate censorship! It's Woolworths - they have a limited shelf space and specific kind of customer. Stocking records that that kind of customer likes will increase their revenue. That is unlikely to be anything by The Strokes.

Just because The Strokes have a powerful PR machine doesn't mean they *deserve* to be stocked by Woolworths.

Oh - for the record, Woolworths do not base their record selection on the Radio 1 playlist. It's more likely to be the other way round. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Golly Blenkinsop' on Fri Aug 3 12:04:29 BST 2001:

I don't know about Woolies, but I work weekends at WH Smith and they only stock what's almost definitely going to go into the Top 40 (singles) and Top 75 (albums). Anything likely to drop straight out again or isn't really suitable for Smith's they just get a few copies of, anything likely to sell loads (i.e. the new Now 49 album at the moment) they get millions of copies of.

There are only two albums in the current Top 75, one of which being the Now album which isn't in the CIN Top 75 as it is a compilation album, available in cassette. I get grief about that from customers every weekend.

Yes, nobody who works there knows anything about music (apart from me, and I work in Books most of the time). But then nor do the people buying their records from WH Smith and Woolworths. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Sat Aug 4 02:16:07 BST 2001:

>First bootleg in the 'traditional' sense sighted in the late 1960s - "The Great White Wonder", a collection of unreleased rehearsal takes of songs by Bob Dylan, who I believe is probably viewed as some kind of irrelevancy from the past by the text-message fixated music journos of today with their finger on the cultural pulse.

to be fair they were talking about bootlegs in the sense of taking an instrumental track of one song and adding an a capella of another. but then that is still an in no way new thing, going back as far as dance music itself. but then the nme didnt start getting interested in that until it had been going a while. and they still dont fucking understand it. or hip hop Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Chet Morton' on Sat Aug 4 16:54:20 BST 2001:

Very annoying Catatonia review in this week's issue. Firstly, Jim Wirth compares their previous level of success to Robbie Williams. Even at their 'Mulder & Scully' / 'Road Rage' peak, Catatonia were never as popular as Robbie Williams, in either record sales or gig terms. I have no strong feelings on either artist, but the use of such a dubious 'fact' to bolster a review desperately seeking an angle is, well, desperate.
Secondly, how the badger's nadgers is Blur's 'Blur' album 'wilfully anti-commercial'? Yes, they moved away from their chirpy Britpop-isms, but their (well, Graham's) love of lo-fi was never a secret. 'Blur' is so 'wilfully uncommercial' that it contains the no.1 single 'Beetlebum' AND the so-successful-at-breaking-the-U.S.-it-was-even-on-The-Simpsons 'Song 2'.
Then he has the cheek to mention 'PR bullshit legend' in his conclusion. Hack, heal thyself! Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Prep Gwarlek 3b' on Sat Aug 4 19:47:02 BST 2001:

Well, you can prove anything with facts. And if you can't, make some up. Cerys Matthews provides additional vocals on the new They Might Be Giants album, y'know.

Do WH Smiths still sell that many different albums? I know that in the past I've bought such never-likely-to-dent-the-top-40 titles such as Front 242's 05:22:09:12 Off, and the sales have always been good (I remember buying REM's New Adventures In Hi-Fi cassette and a Tori Amos CD for £2 each), but lately it seems to be a mix of NOW 612, those awful Ibeeeeeefa compilations and David Gray. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Golly Blenkinsop' on Sat Aug 4 21:38:29 BST 2001:

Top 75, ex Top 75 shoved out into stock, all the works of David Gray and Simply Red, lots of cheap compilations of the sort you might find in Asda (some containing real gems, mostly just Party Hitzzzz! from various eras) and quite a good classical section.

I loathe working there. We had to play a special game of Bingo today where we were given cards with two pictures of Clubcards, two pictures of 102 Dalmatians video pre-sell forms and one picture of the Recess School's Out kids get in free if you spend over £10 in store voucher. First person to tick all of these off and prove that they have got people to fill in Clubcard forms/pay £1 to pre-order Dalmatians etc won a chart CD album (single only, not double). I couldn't be arsed and got a wrist-slapping for having an attitude problem.
>
>Do WH Smiths still sell that many different albums? I know that in the past I've bought such never-likely-to-dent-the-top-40 titles such as Front 242's 05:22:09:12 Off, and the sales have always been good (I remember buying REM's New Adventures In Hi-Fi cassette and a Tori Amos CD for £2 each), but lately it seems to be a mix of NOW 612, those awful Ibeeeeeefa compilations and David Gray.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Sat Aug 4 22:02:28 BST 2001:

I'm quite proud of the fact that I used to play Fall and Photek CDs when I worked in John Menzies. Of course, then evil WHSmith moved in for the kill and we were gone. Oh well. At least JM were in the Fist Of Fun book and WHS weren't. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'SE1' on Sun Aug 5 00:35:20 BST 2001:

Did they have an official pronunciation of "Menzies"? Was it "Menzees" like the antipodean statesman or "Mingis" like the Liberal Democrat MP?

My Scottish Granny terrorised me into being unable to pronounce it other than "Mingis", even though I knew it sounded poncey. But she's dead now. So. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Prep Gwarlek 3b' on Sun Aug 5 00:35:38 BST 2001:

What the hell is it with work and 'morale boosting excercises' that rarely crawl above lowest-common-denominator level. At where I work, we recently had an Elvis impersonator gig in the canteen FOR NO DESCERNABLE REASON WHATSOEVER. It doesn't make anyone work any harder. Just about everyone took the piss instead of being in anyway 'impressed'. And (most importantly) I could hear it (quite loudly) from the office where I work, when I was trying to get some work done so I could go home at the proper time. Aargh!

Still, the NME, eh? At least Swells was on Thrills duty this week. Otherwise, oh dear.