A Review of Previous Fylosofers
To give a partial outline on my own fylosofi, here is a list of some famous fylosofers and fylosofical concepts that I agree or disagree with:
Thales/Anaximenes: "Everything is made of water" vs. "everything is made of air." What baloney.
Pythagoras: Vegetarian with slightly out-there beliefs on the number 4 being Justice, reincarnation existing, and eating beans being a sin. Interesting, but since the guy once drowned a student for talking to friends about Pi, it'd be hard to like the fella.
Zeno: Real motion and change are impossible. Perhaps. However, Achilles will eventually catch up with the tortoise because Achilles does happen to run a hell of a lot faster anyway.
Protagoras: No objective truths? Eh, you'll have Rand up in arms against you, sonny. Though... who needs Rand, anyway?
Socrates: Virtue is knowledge. Know thyself. ~claps~ How against rhetoric he was, although rhetoric is so much a part of his philosophy. Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
Plato: The Republic certainly sounds nice, but even the smartest rulers can be assholes. However, the Forms make sense, especially in connecting them to Orson Scott Card's philotic theory. ~nudges her friend An~
Aristotle: Deductive logic works all right, but the guy clearly never saw a frog that couldn't swim. And induction's even worse. Ugh. Secondly, he had a pretty limited mind if he figured there had to be a Prime Mover. The universe has the capability to have existed forever.
Stoics: Bah. Humbug.
Skeptics/Cynics: Cheaters. You're dogmatic about one thing, and that's your own dogma.
St. Anselm: What a poor sorry fool.
Thomas Aquinas: ~shudders~
Ockham's Razor: It is foolish to do with more what can be done with less. True, in a left-brained sense.
Machiavelli: A successful ruler will often be required to cheat, lie, break promises, and even murder. Bravo for admitting it, Niccolò! Though, I have to ask, do you think that's morally right?
Hobbes: Let's... erm... not get into that. Has a nice name for a tiger, though.
Descartes: Cogito ergo sum. Any questions? The Matrix has you.
Voltaire: No comment, as I know surprisingly little about him.
Locke: If you liked metaphysics a little better, I'd like you a little better.
Hume: Causation is no more than a human belief based on past experiences. Oh, you are so RIGHT!
Rousseau: Ah, oui, oui, qu'est-ce que c'est belle, la retourne à nature! Sadly, impossible to happen now.
Kant: An a priori mental structure? Yes, but a highly vulnerable one.
Hegel: He didn't know the Absolute Idea was 42.
Nietzsche: Yes, God as we knew him is indeed dead. As for übermensch, it sounds great. Too bad the Hitler plagiarized you. Thirdly, eternal recurrence sounds a bit... boring.
Kierkegaard: I choose the moral, aesthetic, and religious life. Got a problem with that?
Marx: Nice ideas going, but two issues. One, he didn't listen enough to Locke. Two, he warped Rousseau.
Thoreau: Must've been an Elf in a past life. Simplicity, simplicity. How joyous. ~smiles~
Emerson: Very good. I approve of his ideas, especially since through a certain epiphany of mine I experienced something akin to the "over-soul." Whoso would be a man must be a non-conformist.
Pragmatism: Ew. Yucky.
Semiotics: Where would Freud and Jung have been without 'em? Great deep stuff.
Sartre: I partially agree with him. Existence does precede essence. But that does not mean divine essence itself does not exist. Essence can change after the initial act of existence.
Frege: Wish I knew more about him, but I don't.
Wittgenstein: Of what we cannot speak we must remain silent. I suppose I could agree. But I prefer the way Ursula K. Le Guin puts it: to know which questions have no answers, and then to not ask them.
Freud: A horny old fogey. Though the "unconscious" bit works. Hail id.
Jung: Collective unconsciousness? It makes sense. My friend and I are attempting to prove its existence analytically.
Kuhn: I need to read up more on him.
Lacan: There is no self. Disturbing, though logical. However, if there is no self, this contradicts many many previous fylosofies and thus perhaps itself.
Now that I've thoroughly lost all non-fylosofi-heads, I think I'll post some more things. A discussion An and I had upon immortality and related subjects, on IM... It turned out our theories need some fine-tuning, however. Heh heh.
TheEternalBlood: I went off on a tangent in my notes. LoL.
QwertyElf: LOL.
TheEternalBlood: TIME/SPACE RELATIONSHIP
QwertyElf: O_o
TheEternalBlood: "Always moving through time. Can stop moving through space. Reversable? Universe still moving/growing. -All space, therefore, from some center-point Does all time come from a center? *Prove this; prove Jung's Collective Unconscious Theory."
QwertyElf: Hmmm... very interesting.
TheEternalBlood: I was looking at the sky.
QwertyElf: Time coming from a center; how does this prove collective unconscious?
TheEternalBlood: It means that time and space are directly connected. And that time moves with space. Memory is associated with time + spirit. If you prove time moves in three dimensions instead of the "fourth dimension" that is directly associated with time, then you can also prove memory moves in the same fashion. Basically, memory is a transversal cutting through the center of time, if time has a center.
QwertyElf: Aha. And would the "collective unconscious" be the point of interception of memory and time?
TheEternalBlood: ::nods::
QwertyElf: Coolness... LOL. ~needs to start a log as well~
TheEternalBlood: But I also question where human souls and love play into it. As well as "The Divine Existence."
QwertyElf: Divine Existence... God?
TheEternalBlood: ::nods::
TheEternalBlood: If he/she/it/they exist at all, it will be only in the domain of "Memory."
TheEternalBlood: So, how do you have three transversals, and then a "if...only" relationship within one of the transvesals, but not the rest?
QwertyElf: Well, as you said, memory = time + spirit. If spirit is the same as the human soul, there must be some kind of way to describe the spirit's movement in relation to 3 dimensional time and 3 dimensional memory.
TheEternalBlood: Also, if I can prove "Time" and "Space" move together, I might even be able to prove "Destiny." Especially if I can't prove free will.
TheEternalBlood: I am beginning to require some of that science I loathe so much.
QwertyElf: LOL.
TheEternalBlood: But if I can prove the existence of divinity, then maybe I can destroy science using science?
TheEternalBlood: ::is becoming the Imperial Order:: Lmao.
QwertyElf: That would probably be the funniest thing imaginable.
QwertyElf: Well... from a philosophical perspective.
TheEternalBlood: I don't know what kind of evidence I need, though.
TheEternalBlood: And how any of this works logically.
TheEternalBlood: I have a diagram showing Time, Universe (all three dimensions of "Space") and Memory in direct relationship to another, but only because they move around the same transversal.
TheEternalBlood: But they all relate more than just that... The dimensions interact with each other.
TheEternalBlood: What makes them interact?
QwertyElf: Well, here's how I proved, to myself at least, that there was a "higher power" of sorts. There are stories of many kinds of immortal or supernatural species; according to SCIENCE, they could not have existed. However, these stories could not have come from nowhere. It's back to the mythology aspect again. Elves, fairies, demons, dragons... where did they come from, if they lived forever or could not be slain?
TheEternalBlood: They could interact with the dimension of Time..
TheEternalBlood: ::bounces:: If we find one, we can prove this theory!
QwertyElf: Wait, find one what?
TheEternalBlood: If we can prove that something can move through Space, but not Time, then we can prove Jung's...
TheEternalBlood: An immortal creature.
TheEternalBlood: Sit perfectly still and don't move a muscle for a moment.
TheEternalBlood: You're constantly moving through Time. But you can stop moving through Space. Shouldn't that work the other way around, too?
QwertyElf: YES!
TheEternalBlood: The only question is how.
TheEternalBlood: And if you can stop moving through Time... You can also travel it.
QwertyElf: Ooo. Yes...
TheEternalBlood: Maybe this is the divine knowledge that the Atlanteans held.
TheEternalBlood: The logic of all the universe.
QwertyElf: Well, we can travel time already. Forwards. Just not backwards yet. The secret to making time go backwards... Aha! If you could constantly, for example, make time go backwards by one second, wouldn't that have it essentially be frozen?
QwertyElf: And yet why would the Atlanteans be destroyed? Since when has knowledge been sin?
TheEternalBlood: Hm... That's logical, but it's also very illogical.
QwertyElf: :-p
TheEternalBlood: Time goes backwards, then fowards, then backwards, then fowards again?
TheEternalBlood: To freeze time, you need to do use a friggin light-switch to keep the same second in play.
QwertyElf: But only in a one second interval. Suppose you were measuring time by "points" like on a graph. Infinitely small, with a mass of zero...
QwertyElf: Then, if it were going back and forth, it would be going nowhere.
TheEternalBlood: Hm...
QwertyElf: Dude... hang on a sec... Orson Scott Card may provide us with some answers...
QwertyElf: ~grabs one of the Ender books~
TheEternalBlood: It wouldn't be called mass.. We need a new unit of measurement.
TheEternalBlood: Heh.
TheEternalBlood: What's your last name?
QwertyElf: Why? LOL.
TheEternalBlood: ______ (edited for privacy)? Or something similar...? I forget.
TheEternalBlood: Well, I can't claim all of these theories mine.
QwertyElf: ______, yes.
TheEternalBlood: Okay. Heh.
QwertyElf: LMAO, so this new measurement for time is a ______?
QwertyElf: :-p
TheEternalBlood: No... I just had to credit the motion of time theory to you.
QwertyElf: Ah. LOL.
QwertyElf: Can you send me a copy of your notes later, please?
TheEternalBlood: As well as the Duality Truth thing... But I just wrote "________'s Musing" for that.
TheEternalBlood: Yes, all right.
QwertyElf: Okay then.
QwertyElf: Anyway, Orson Scott Card. Brb.
TheEternalBlood: Yes, all right.
QwertyElf: Okay, Card developed some theories about faster than light travel. It works on the principle of a way to make time stand still. Now if I can just find the hypothesis on that...
TheEternalBlood: Ah... I remember that... Somewhat.
TheEternalBlood: It was only briefly touched in Ender's Game, I think... Is it explained in more detail in the others?
QwertyElf: Yes.
QwertyElf: Dammit, where's the passage where they figure it out?!
TheEternalBlood: Aha...
TheEternalBlood: Anu and Uranus...
TheEternalBlood: Same god, in relation to Babylon/Rome.
QwertyElf: Ah... interesting how Uranus also has "anu" in it.
TheEternalBlood: Greek myths had a version of him as well. Who was he?
QwertyElf: Who, Uranus? In Greek he was Uranos, remember? The sky god, eventually castrated by his son Kronos.
TheEternalBlood: LoL...
TheEternalBlood: Hm... Maybe Anu was the husband before the one who called for Marduk's creation.
QwertyElf: Well, why do you think Kronos' symbol is the sickle? ;-)
QwertyElf: ~shrugs~
QwertyElf: I thought Anu was Tiamat's husband.
TheEternalBlood: She had more than one.
QwertyElf: Oh yes.
TheEternalBlood: It may have been An'Shar.
TheEternalBlood: Kingu might've been it, too.
TheEternalBlood: An'Shar was the one who created Marduk? Hm...
QwertyElf: O_o
TheEternalBlood: I need to find the website I was at last year... If it still exists...
TheEternalBlood: It told the entire story of Marduk's battle with Tiamat.
QwertyElf: Aha.
TheEternalBlood: Found it. Wheee.
TheEternalBlood: O Marduk, greater than all great gods, the honor and the fame, the will of Anu, great command, unaltering and eternal word!
QwertyElf: (Dammit, I still can't find the passage on faster-than-light travel. But I have a general idea of how it works.)
TheEternalBlood: Anu created him, or called for him. I know that much, at least.
QwertyElf: Then that goes in accord with the Anu/Uranus idea.
TheEternalBlood: Kingu was Tiamat's consort.
TheEternalBlood: What's consort mean?
QwertyElf: LOL.
QwertyElf: Consort... hmm... in that context, a male concubine.
TheEternalBlood: Nm. Husband. It's in the text.
QwertyElf: Not exactly a husband, though.
TheEternalBlood: Oh, they're insulting him in the text.
TheEternalBlood: He's still a husband.
QwertyElf: :-p
TheEternalBlood: An'Shar was Tiamat's husband before Kingu.
TheEternalBlood: He stretched the immensity of the firmament, he made Esharra, the Great Palace, to be its earthly image, and Anu and Enlil and Ea had each their right stations.
TheEternalBlood: Ea is also a god. Hm..
QwertyElf: Whoa... I know why "Demosthenes" rings a bell. He was a political figure, I believe; his name is Valentine's alias in Ender's Game.
TheEternalBlood: ::nods::
TheEternalBlood: But it's an allusion to some Greek guy.
QwertyElf: Yes; a Greek politician or political theorist.
TheEternalBlood: Yeah, I figured that out. Heh.
QwertyElf: Hm... anyway...
QwertyElf: Dude. This faster-than-light travel; it could indeed prove the possibility of immortal beings... wanna hear my reasoning?
TheEternalBlood: Spill. Heh.
QwertyElf: Well, Card's theory was that every individual thing in existence had a defining essence he called a philote. Sort of like Plato's idea of Forms. Anyway, these philotes are all connected to each other and this connection is represented as the universe. When philotes interact, sometimes this produces love. Other times hate, etc. (This may sound like nothing to do with anything, but I'm getting to the point, don't worry.)
QwertyElf: Suppose there was one big MASS philote, which was the philote of the connection of philotes. This philote, if sentient, could manipulate all the others at will or at their behest. It could transport philotes outside of itself; i.e. outside the universe.
QwertyElf: If something went outside the universe or "philote collection," it would be outside the effect of time, since time as a philote would be only in the universe. So once it was outside time, when it re-entered the universe it would be as if no time had passed.
TheEternalBlood: Which is what Mazer Rackham did to stay alive, isn't it?
QwertyElf: Hm?
TheEternalBlood: In Ender's Game.
QwertyElf: I haven't read it for a long time, but I think so.
QwertyElf: Well, just to finish the theory: if by being able to place oneself or one's philote outside the universe, they could achieve immortality by avoiding the passage of time. The thing, though, with such an act, is that to be outside of all the other philotes is to find it hard to define one's own philote. Therefore, only a person with a very clear image of their self would be able to do it. Hence the notion that "fairies" or what have you are very wise and introspective; they'd know themselves...
TheEternalBlood: Hm... Understood.
QwertyElf: The one key thing missing here is the mass sentient philote. Prove that this exists, and you prove the fact that things can be immortal. And vice versa.
TheEternalBlood: Now, though, according to this theory... Is Time indepedent of the Universe, or is it a part of it?
QwertyElf: A part of it. Because space and time are connected, remember?
TheEternalBlood: So far, my diagrams show Time as an independent transversal.
QwertyElf: Hmm... true...
TheEternalBlood: So, is Time just another dimension that is measured as apart of "Space" or is it its own philote?
TheEternalBlood: Hm.. Actually, with Time apart of it...
QwertyElf: It is measured as its own philote, but it interacts with Space.
TheEternalBlood: What makes the interaction possible?
TheEternalBlood: Are you sure its its own?
QwertyElf: I'm not sure; that is just how Card expresses it. I'm not saying he's right at all.
TheEternalBlood: Give me a second to draw a diagram so I can understand which would work better.
TheEternalBlood: We're not going off of just Card... We have our own minds, too. He's justt helping us along the way.
QwertyElf: ~nods~
TheEternalBlood: Does Memory play into this?
QwertyElf: You know... I think it does.
TheEternalBlood: Its own or apart of the universe, as well?
TheEternalBlood: I personally think memory spills outside of the Universe, since memory probably existed before.
TheEternalBlood: "God->Memory->Universe"
TheEternalBlood: Because Memory has to have the creation of the Universe with it...
QwertyElf: I think Card makes it partially synonymous to spirit/philote. Although he calls the spirit the "aiua." And supposedly outside the universe are many aiuas that have no physical representation yet.
QwertyElf: When you die, your aiua leaves the universe and seeks a new physical representation. Like reincarnation.
TheEternalBlood: If aiuas leave the universe... They'd have to stay within Memory...
QwertyElf: I guess.
TheEternalBlood: So, in this philote caste... Memory would be more higher than the universe?
QwertyElf: Yes... yes, I think so.
TheEternalBlood: Hm... This is interesting...
QwertyElf: Does this support collective unconscious, then?
QwertyElf: It seems to, in a discreet way.
TheEternalBlood: It does..
QwertyElf: O_o
TheEternalBlood: But I messed up... Do you think the Mass Philote and Memory are on the same level?
TheEternalBlood: Or does this philote have power over memory as well?
TheEternalBlood: Hm... According to Collective Unconscious, Memory is the source and the beginning of all things, right?
QwertyElf: Ah... no (to your first question). The mass philote, being the universe, would contain all aiuas that had a physical manifestation. Memory contains all aiuas, period. Thus... DUDE! Thus, if the mass philote were like God, being sentient, and if memory were like all spirits... That would prove that spirits were independent of God... FREE WILL.
TheEternalBlood: But this... Did Memory come first? Or did the MP?
TheEternalBlood: ::nods:: Heh...
QwertyElf: Oo... that does add a new dimension, doesn't it... it could be that memory and the MP are the same thing... which would support my "religious epiphany" that I had, but it wouldn't support the Card aspects of all this.
TheEternalBlood: According to Card, the MP is u and u is MP?
QwertyElf: Yes, I believe.
TheEternalBlood: So then... It'd be like the MP throwing philotes out of itself and pulling them in...
QwertyElf: Aha... suppose the MP and Memory are two separate things... but there's something even BIGGER that's above them both.
QwertyElf: Yes.
QwertyElf: <-- This "bigger" thing would be the connection between the MP and Memory, and how they interact... what would that be, though?
TheEternalBlood: If the MP is sentient... and m is not...
TheEternalBlood: Hm...
QwertyElf: I'm suggesting they could both be sentient.
QwertyElf: Like rational vs. irrational numbers. They're both NUMBERS, but the amount of one is bigger than the other.
TheEternalBlood: But if Memory is sentient, then doesn't that conflict with free will?
TheEternalBlood: As for the most potent philote... The interaction... No idea what it could be...
QwertyElf: No no no... LOL. At least with Card, he makes individual memories and aiuas the same thing. Memory = spirit. Therefore Memory is sentient. If it is sentient and the MP is sentient, but Memory can act independent of the MP, that means Spirit is free of the MP, and Man is free of God.
TheEternalBlood: But in this diagram, no philote is independent but memory.
QwertyElf: Hmm...
TheEternalBlood: Memory is the memory of all spirits.
TheEternalBlood: Not individuals.
TheEternalBlood: It'd work differently your way... Too many... little circles...
TheEternalBlood: LoL.
QwertyElf: But if all individual memories are sentient, wouldn't the whole mass of Memory be sentient, too?
QwertyElf: We'll have to discuss this more, later, though. I have to go.
TheEternalBlood: Is society a sentient creature or is it just the individuals?
TheEternalBlood: Ah.. darn. LoL.
QwertyElf: Farewell, brother.
Back to the entrance of Imladris
