Jim Morrison...Speaking Live
In May 1970, while awaiting the Simon & Schuster publication of The Lords & The New Creatures, and attracted by the chance to talk intelligently about something other than the music scene, Jim Morrison agreed to a "literary" interview with Tony Thomas of the Canadian Broadcasting Company. The interview took place at The Doors office in Los Angeles on May 27, 1970 and was partially aired on radio in Canada, but was never published.
Tony Thomas: Jim, the very first line of your new book of poems reads "Look where we worship." What do young people worship today? What do they believe? What do they hang onto; what do they hope for?
Jim Morrison: Well, I can't speak for young people, but probably a guess would be the same things they've always celebrated, a joy of existence, self-discovery, freedom, that kind of thing.
TT: But politically and philosophically, the young people now seem to feel very definite ideas about the establishment, old systems of governing people and moral attitudes.
Jim: When I was in high school and college, the kind of protest that's going on now was totally unheard of. At that time, to be a teenager, to be young, was really nothing, it was kind of a limbo state, and I think it's amazing, just in the last five years. What's happened is young people have become increasingly aware of the power and the influence that they have as a group. It's really amazing.
TT: The standards of patriotism have changed. This was once a very fervently patriotic nation, flag followers. Now that has undergone a tremendous, dramatic change.
Jim: The young people in this country still do feel an identity as Americans, but it's a different kind of patriotism. It's...they're thinking of a different kind of America than what was thought of in the past, but I think that they still think of themselves as Americans. I know I identify with that word. I don't know whether it's just been indoctrinated in me for so long or what, but I feel like an American.
TT: A different concept of patriotism, isn't there?
Jim: This country is very young, and it has gone through a lot of changes and will go through a lot of changes, but probably the main difference would be that the idea of America somehow dominating the rest of the world is beginning to lose favor, and the people I know are just content to be one country in a whole sea of nations, rather than trying to force one way of life on a lot of other people.
TT: When you look at young people today do you feel very optimistic about the future?
Jim: Well, I try not to be... I always try and keep a kind of enlightened pessimism about things, because then you don't get too disappointed when things don't turn out the way you wanted. But, as for revolution, I think it would be a mistake because, as far as I can see, all a revolution does is change the power from one faction to another. It doesn't really change anything, it's just a switch of power. I think a revolution in this country would be a disaster. The democratic ideals are fairly worthwhile and all we need is to change a few leaders and change a few laws. But I think the basic ideals of democracy are fairly worthwhile.
TT: Life does seem to become more and more involved and complex. You know we're becoming computerized and dehumanized in that process.
Jim: There does seem to be a trend toward, a return to, a kind of primitive, more tribal attitude, and I think it's a natural reaction to industrialization. But unfortunately, I think it's kind of naïve because I think the future is going to become increasingly mechanized, computerized as you called it, and I don't think there's any turning back. It's just figuring out a way to survive and thrive in that kind of society. But I don't think there's any chance of going back.
TT: So you interpret the Hippie/Yippie movement as a reaction to the modernization?
Jim: Oh, definitely. Kind of a Dionysiac reaction, but very naïve and fruitless, I think. Look at it this way. The hippie lifestyle is really a middle class phenomenon. And it could not exist in any other society except ours where there's such an incredible surfeit of goods, products and leisure time. The generations immediately preceding ours had world wars and depressions to contend with, and for the last 10 or 15 years in this country there's time enough and money enough to live a kind of a flagrant, outrageous lifestyle, which was impossible before.
TT: Jim, there's a line in your book of poems which reads, "The cleavage of men into actor and spectators is the central fact of our time." I think that's undeniable, but I wonder, hasn't it always been that way with society?
Jim: I suppose it has, but...with mass media and all today, it becomes more immediately apparent. I think what I was concerned with in that book was the fact that most people feel completely void and helpless in controlling their own destinies, controlling the destiny of human life. And I think it's sad. More people should be involved, rather than designating all these powers to a few individuals. I think the average person, whatever that is...should be a part of it somehow. I think everyone feels that events are just going on without their knowledge or control. I think it's one of the tragedies of our time. I suppose it has always been that way, but now it's just become so obvious, you know. Decisions are made for you in which you have no part of at all. That's what I was trying to discuss.
TT: Well, it does take courage to live your own style.
Jim: Style's part of it. Style is very important, but I just lament the fact that so many people are content with living a very quiet, well-mannered, orderly life, when so many obvious--I'm not sure of the right word--injustices, I guess, are going on. And they just seem to ignore it somehow, or not care at all, just let it happen, without ever becoming involved. I think that's sad.
TT: Jim, how do you enjoy life? What do you do?
Jim: Ah, well I'm hung up in the art game. My great joy is to try and give form to reality, and I think I've always been into that. Music is a great release and a great enjoyment for me, and eventually I'd like to write something of some importance. That's my ambition, to write something worthwhile.
TT: What would you say in this writing that would be worthwhile? Would it be philosophical?
Jim: You know, philosophy doesn't interest me as much as it used to. I think the day I finally was forced to realize that no one in the world really knows any more about what's going on than any other person, I kind of lost interest in philosophy as a study of ideas, but philosophy appreciated from the standpoint of how men in the past have used words, have used language. That's why for me poetry is the ultimate art form, because what defines us as human beings is language. The way we talk is the way we think, and the way we think is the way we act, and the way we act is what we are. And so I appreciate philosophy these days from the standpoint of poetry, the use of one word next to another word next to another word. So, philosophy is semantics, I guess.
TT: Well society has always needed, apparently, to worship heroes. Now where are young people today looking for heroes? What type of heroes?
Jim: Well, no heroes have come out of the Viet Nam conflict. I think the new heroes will probably be political activists. In the 20s it was sports figures, 30s and 40s it was movie stars and World War II aces and all that kind of thing, then the music figures became new heros. I think the next heroes will probably be a more intellectual sort: political activists and perhaps scientists and computer experts, people like that. People that have an understanding, an intellectual awareness and a knowledge of how things run, how modern society runs, will probably be the new heroes.
TT: Jim, relevant to your theory that people should get more involved in life and thus enjoy it more, you have written a line of poetry which reads, "The spectator is a dying animal." Isn't that a little bit contradictory to what you said previously?
Jim: No, it's concerned with that same split between the actor and the audience. To me there's something incredibly sad about a bunch of human beings sitting down watching something take place. Of course, in that context I was thinking a lot about film. I love movies as much as anyone else, but the spectacle of millions and millions of people sitting in movie theaters and in front of television sets every night, watching a second, or third-hand reproduction of reality going on, when the real world is right there in their living room, or right outside on the street or down the block somewhere... I think it's a tool to sonombulize or hypnotize people into kind of a waking sleep.
I think the major influence in the next decade or so is going to be the people--I don't know what you'd call them except maybe the connectors--the people who are able to assemble masses, huge masses of people into one spot, as we witnessed in pop festivals in the last two or three years. The kind of people that can assemble huge crowds in one spot, I think, will be the major influences on mass culture in the next decade.
TT:The Woodstock gathering suggested what to you?
Jim:Yeah, I think the Woodstock phenomenon was a metaphor, in a way, a crystallization. You could see it all right there. It was these spoon-fed, young people, you know, wallowing in their own limbo. Being fed by the townspeople outside, being catered to and pampered, and the only beautiful thing I found about it was the performers, I thought they were incredible. I think the rock music enthusiasts have created probably some of the most exciting music and theatrical events on the planet. I think they're fantastic.
TT: Well, you know part of the generation gap is the difference in what people like in terms of music.
Jim: In adolescence and early youth, the fires are burning fastest and your energy level is probably at its highest, and so it demands a kind of raucous, screaming type of music. And I'm 26 now and I'm getting more interested in jazz, to tell you the truth. I can't even listen to the radio anymore. I like old blues cats, and early rock-'n-roll and some other things, but frankly I find most of it really boring. The major radio stations, rock stations, only play 30 songs, over and over and over, 24 hours a day. And it's been proven that what you hear the most is what you like the most, so there's really no choice involved. Someone is programming it.
TT: So we are the victims of media. What's that, "The message is the medium, or the medium is the message." That's distressing.
Jim: What everyone should say is: the medium is the message, and the message is me. Well, that's the answer, if you're asking for an answer. The answer is for everyone to stand up and say, "I'm me," and be fully aware of that fact and let everyone else know it. That you are yourself. And express it!
