From Larry King Live on CNN
Dr. Bob Jones III Discusses the Controversy Swirling Around Bob Jones University
Aired March 3, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET
JONES: No, we have been controversial because we -- you know, we believe in the Bible and that makes you controversial today, but somehow this has been brought up into the middle of the campaign in the most inexplicable way.
[Like the JW Org who claim they are always being bagged on merely because they are followers of Jesus and he warned them because of this they would be hated]
KING: Why can't black kids date white kids?
JONES: Well, being a Bible believing institution, Larry, we try to base things on Bible principle. It wasn't the rule itself. We can't point to a verse in the Bible that says you shouldn't date or marry inter-racial.
Everytime JW's make up a rule that can NOT be bibically backed, such as banning birthdays or formal dress codes..that is what they say, "It's based on Bible 'principles."]
KING: You can't back it up?
JONES: No, we can't back it up with a verse from the Bible. We never have tried to, we have never tried to do that. But we have said there is a principle here, an overriding principle of the one world government. But let me tell you how insignificant this is. Students never hear it preached.
[Jw's org, "We never said it was a rule...it's just the Society's "Suggestions."]
KING: Do you think maybe -- I mean, you could change that, you think it is a stretch maybe? In other words, have you given thought to maybe that's taking it too far, down to two people into a whole one world concept?
JONES: As of today, we have dropped the rule. We have dropped the rule for this reason.
[ The JW Org: "As of today we will stop asking a precise price for our magazines and instead ask for a donation..."]
KING: All right, if you joined us late we have just learned as of today, this afternoon, that there is no more ban on interracial dating at Bob Jones University. The school is free of drugs, sex and alcohol. You have a dress code.
JONES: Yes, yes, yes, that's right.
[Humm..now let's see..who else has a dress code???]
KING: OK, why not movies and music, television?
JONES: Well, I think the media is very anti-God. You know, you'll never see a normal preacher. You hardly ever see a normal family on there. The values are skewed. And we say, you know, we Christians ought to feed our minds on better stuff than this, wholesome stuff, not perversity.
[Instead of enjoying yourself as worldly dances..how about reading the Watchtower?]
JONES: Well, of course, individuals at home do. When a young person comes to Bob Jones University, he's coming, as it were to a boot camp. We're trading servants of Christ for his army, if you will.
[ It's not the congergation's responsibility to entertain young people. The Kingdom Hall is not for enjoyment. It's for spiritual education. If perents take away all celebrations from their children and don't replace it with any recreation..that's NOT OUR problem]
KING: But the rules benefit them how? How is a child benefited by not seeing a movie?
JONES: OK, I believe the part of man that we feed is the part that grows strong. We feed the flesh, the flesh will grow strong. We feed the spirit, the spirit will grow strong. What we starve atrophies. Most people today have fed themselves on the entertainment media. I think it's -- we've becoming enslaved by it. I mean, a person can hardly sit down today without a movie or without music or something going on. It doesn't mean there's not a place in life for good, uplifting classical music, good music, whatever.
[Good wholesom classical music! Like those contemporary sounding and upbeat Kingdom Melodies! boy you can cut a rug to those!]
KING: Can students dance?
JONES: No.
KING: Can they hold hands?
JONES: No.
KING: Why is holding hands bad?
JONES: It's not bad in itself, but the Bible teaches us to be distrustful of flesh. It says we'll put no confidence in the flesh. The physical familiarity in a close environment of young people can get out of hand very quickly, out of control very quickly. We feel like we want to promote an atmosphere to young people -- for young people to their parents, that says we're going to do everything we can to help your young person walk with God, love God, serve God. We're going to do everything we can to keep this fleshly nature of ours from taking control of us. So that's why.
[We have to do everything in our power to make sure our children never experince joy!]
KING: OK, your criticism of the Catholic Church. Will you explain your feelings about the Catholic Church and also the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. What is the argument of the Bob Jones theory against that?
JONES: Bob Jones University believes the Bible. If there's doctrine in any other church contrary to the Bible, we can't feel good about that. I mean, the way we feel about the Catholic Church or Mormonism or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything else is that, you know, we wish these people knew the Lord Jesus Christ."
[That's right. Bob Jones University and the Southern Baptists own all the copy rights to Jesus Christ. Just like how Jehovah's organization is located at the JW's headquaders in New York. Go through THEM and they'll hook you up to Jesus and in turn Jesus will hook you up to Jehovah.]
JONES: The Lord delivers liberal Protestants, atheists, unsaved people of any faith, delivers them from the bondage of sin to Christ.
[Humm..intersting. Notice how Bob lists his liberal Protestants cousins right long side "atheists", and "unsaved people of any faith."?]
KING: So why have you called it a cult, though? I mean, what -- OK, they're entitled to their opinion. It's a different opinion than yours.
JONES: Sure.
KING: Why say that they're a cult? Why say that that's some sort of mysterious kind of thing that's bad?
JONES: Well, "cult" has, I admit, a connotation, of something sinister, or...
[You admit that IS WHY YOU USE it?]
KING: It does.
JONES: ... small and underhanded. Cult also means, according to the dictionary -- I looked it up this afternoon because I figured you would ask this question -- it also has the broader meaning of strict adherence to any faith. Now...
KING: Then you're a cult.
[Right on King! Good for you! Long Live The King!]
JONES: People -- Catholics would say we are. Mormons would say we are.
[Nah, Jehovah's Witnesses would just say you are a "False Religion" that will die at Armageddon.]
In fact, I was reading a "Newsweek" article today written in 1996 about the pope's visit to South America. And he was railing against the Protestants there. And the whole article was about how strong he was. He called them a sect. So I guess what we're dealing with here is that any group calls anybody else outside of its group sect, cult, whatever, looks with suspicion upon it.
KING: The argument against the Mormons is what?
JONES: Mormonism is pantheistic -- it is a religion of -- well, it doesn't teach the same thing about Jesus Christ that we teach. Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ... that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, and that Lucifer rebelled, and Jesus sided with the father. Therefore, he had -- the Bible teaches very clearly that Jesus Christ is God. He is not a created being, he is God. He is in essence -- he is very God of very God.
[So what? Satan was also said to at one time be one of God's children. And here we go...Mormons, JW's and basically all non-trinitarians are a cult!..Because We SAID SO! That's WHY!]
KING: But you don't like Catholicism. JONES: The doctrines, the theology, I mean, we are Protestants.
KING: The idea of a pope.
JONES: No, no, and many other things. But having a difference with the beliefs of another person doesn't make us intolerant toward that person? We believe the Bible. Now we have to stand opposed to everything -- if the Bible is truth, God's eternal truth, we have to stand opposed to the false doctrine that is contrary the Bible, regardless what label it may carry. That doesn't make us haters of people.
[Judge Rutherford HAD TO protests those Protestants and Catholics churches, right? That HAD to tell everyone that every other religion other than their own was a "Racket & A Snare!" Right?]
JONES: You know, as Protestants, anybody who knows that we are Baptist Protestant people should know that we obviously don't agree with Catholic doctrine, but there is nobody that has ever accused us of hating Catholics who knows us.
[Where has he been?]
KING: Do you think homosexuality is chosen, that someone decides, hetro, homo, hetro, homo, I will be homo?
JONES: No, absolutely not. God would not call it a sin if it was something a person couldn't help. God would be cruel to send a man to Hell for something he couldn't help.
KING: The hardest thing -- I have discussed this with others in the clergy, I've never understood it, because do you know when you chose heterosexuality? I mean, if homosexuality is chosen, then heterosexuality must be chosen. Did you make a conscious decision one day to like women?
[A Logical question]
KING: But God loves the sinner, as much as he loves you, right?
JONES: Absolutely, absolutely.
KING: So he loves the gay.
JONES: Yes
KING: He loves the pope.
JONES: Yes.
KING: All right, the Mormons say that, though, don't they?
JONES: No, the Mormons believe that Christ is a created being, that he is not God. If you don't accept the Bible presentation of Jesus Christ, you have not accepted the Christ who is...
[Here we go the anti-unitarian obsession!] KING: There's not a liberal doctrine you might agree with? You might agree with health for everyone, you might agree with concepts of -- that all races are equal, that women deserve equal pay. Some of the liberals opposed first overtime. I mean, every liberal concept can't be bad. Franklin Delano Roosevelt did some good.
JONES: Well, why do Harvard and Yale have a preponderance, almost an exclusive number of liberal speakers? Why are their teachers almost all liberals? You see, they have a purpose.
[Yes the Social Justice Gospel message is very evil. It request that the Golden Rule be extended to all.]
JONES: The only gain I want is for everybody to understand that the liberals were all wrong when they said we were racist. They wall wrong when they looked at our rule and drew a conclusion about us that was so unflattering and so untrue. I just want to, you know, take this club out of their hand. That's the only thing I want to do.
[ I just want to prove that liberal and progressive Christians are unsaved cults because they dare to extend equality to both sexes instead of just one! And because they won't help us boycott Disney!]
JONES: I've learned that religious freedom, and particularly Bible-believing Christians, the -- maybe we're the most unprotected and misunderstood and maybe despised minority in America. I think some of this is frightening. I think the hostility toward Christianity that has been exhibited in all this should frighten all freedom-loving people and certainly should frighten Christians. And I believe it has. I believe that somehow the university's been allowed of God to be brought into this thing through no fault of our own, and I think as a result a lot of people have had a wake-up call that maybe we're about to lose tolerance toward religious freedom in this country. And I am really, really concerned about that.
[JW's are very concerned about Religious Freedom too! Just their own..not anyone else's]
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Back To Calling The Kettle Black
Fundamentalism
Back to Topics
Back To Main Page
