Elizabeth, Linda, Brenna, Don, Tina, Jill, Dave, Lenny, Ron, and Mike welcomed Kathleen, Julia, Bob and Bob to their first meeting. After a brief round of introductions, the group began listing discussion topics and questions. An agenda developed into ten items:

• What to do when others close to you are not involved (with the book) Your Money Or Your Life (YMOYL)
• Clarification of interest rates on Bonds-they're all different, why?
• "Casual Income"
• Worried about maturing/aging => will I have enough money later in life? How does money work later in life?
• Emergency Funds (ie, "cache" referred to in YMOYL)
• Christmas-coping with another round of holidays
• And what happens with New Years (new millennium)?
• Life purpose: risks of uncertainty
• Pacing myself
• Clutter

Discussion began on relating with partners who are less than enthusiastic about simplicity, and/or doing the nine steps in the book Your Money Or Your Life. Several possibilities and examples where shared. Some couples keep finances separate, which allows one partner to pursue simplification independently (up to a point) of the other. Mike knows of a couple where one spouse reached financial independence (FI) first, with the other spouse anticipating to reach independence the following year. Other examples are also in the follow-up book to YMOYL, Getting A Life.

Discussion then moved to world of investments-interest rates, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, stocks/mutual funds verses. bonds, is Chapter 9 of YMOYL out of date, once I've accumulated a nest egg what do I do with it... The group made many great observations, connections, and insights.

One member has been learning about investments by participating in a group, and recently purchased her first T-Bill. Within this group (as well as in many other areas), bonds are sort of thought of as an old, outdated investment vehicle, and are not a high discussion topic. She observes that while positioning herself in bonds may limit her participation and inclusion in the group's discussions, she none the less feels very comfortable in her decision-there is a sense of peace knowing funds you are depending on to live your new found life with, are at minimal risk and generating enough income.

A lot of good discussion, debate, observation and insight then followed, centered mainly on the tremendous returns funds, stocks, the market... have been getting in recent years, verses the minimal returns from investing in bonds during the same time period-why position yourself in bonds as outlined in Chapter 9 of YMOYL when the market is doing so well? (from ML: this was a great conversation -- where to begin to summarize... hum…)

Lenny observed that while the market has been doing good in for a long time now, a dollar invested in the market in 1965 was still only worth a dollar in 1982. There was a long period of no growth, and those periods do occur. Counterpoint was made if you are in the market for the long term, you weather those periods of no growth/loss-it's over the long term where the gains are. A counter to that was, 1965 to 1982 was 17 years-how long is long and what if you needed the money during that time?

Ron mentioned there is a point in our lives when things change. He used a home as an example. When you are very young, it seems to make a lot of sense to buy a home and pay the interest because in the long term, you'll generally make out (i.e., make a good investment). When you get a bit older though, you reach a point where you begin to notice you could rent a place for what it would cost you in interest to own. You wouldn't have any of ownership worries (i.e., time spent maintaining, big repairs...), and you'd have flexibility to move about if you'd like. Same thing applies to the market-there is a time when you're younger, when the long term makes sense (i.e., it is sooo far off, it'll never get here, right?), and another point when you don't want/can't take the ownership-just give me a simple steady income where I won't have to worry about that income stopping.

Don then mentioned it's the "core" you want to protect-you don't want to put your core at risk (which is the essence of YMOYL Chapter 9). Counterpoint; "But the market is doing so well, how can you not participate?" Don gave an example: Say you have a core of $100,000. If you put that in bonds at 6%, a year later you will have $6000 in interest. Now take that $6000 and do whatever you want with it- reinvest in bonds, go to the market and buy stocks, put it in a mutual fund, go to Europe or take a cruise-do whatever you want with the $6000 but DON'T touch the $100,000 -- that's your Core-protect your Core.

Mike observed the discussion/debate seems more rooted in the question of enoughness-how much is enough of a rate of return, how much is enough money to live on, will I have enough money? It's very analogous to the basic, "Do I have enough stuff?" question of simplicity-do I need a bigger house or is my home enough, do I need an SUV or is my current vehicle enough, do I need to start collecting Pokemon action toys or do I have enough Beannie Babies/collectibles for this lifetime? It seems many of the folks who recognize the marketing schemes and twists that generate our current consumerism boom and environmental concerns, miss the marketing twists and schemes generated by the investment world-"You'll always do well if you're in it for the long term... Mutual Funds are not as risky as individual stocks (failing to see the mutual fund as a sort of stock itself)..., The market over the long term always goes up...".

The momentum from the above led the group through the remainder of the meeting discussion items...

When discussing your new independent life, rather than use a word like, "retire", Ron suggests trying "Independent Consular/Contractor" or "Freelancer". Jill describes money received since leaving her corporate job as "casual income".

There was discussion on realities of seeking less stressful work. Several examples were given. Some who sought a simple, "fun" job were told they were over-qualified, "Why would you want to do this?". Others were offered high level management positions instead of the simple clerk job they applied for. Kathleen mentioned being told, "... you are good for this job.", to which she replied, "I may be good for the job, but the job may not be good for me."

Some of the good reading materials mentioned during the meeting were Transitions and Chop Wood/Carry Water (books), and Money Magazine (as a good source to begin learning about investments).

Time flew by, and a knock at the meeting room door by the security guard told us we were a bit past noon. We then wrapped up the meeting at 12:25, with a suggestion for a Christmas Pot Luck for our next meeting (from ML: I follow up with details when completed).

Posted by: Mike Lenich