RP: A little bit. I'm not as excited about new music as I used to be. I think it's got something to do with the fact that we're involved in it, so I'm a little bit jaded. But there's some stuff that I hear is good - I had a 45 by a band called The Multiple Cat that was really good. And I picked up a thing by a band called Elephant Factory that was pretty decent, a Portland band. I like a lot of darker, singer/ songwriter-type stuff, like Cat Power and Will Oldham. I like the new Smog album.

LH: Yeah, he just played here a couple of weeks ago.

RP: And I've heard the new Pavement album, although no one else is allowed to because I'm a friend of Scott in Pavement - he let me hear it, and it sounds really good.

LH: I've heard it's described as some sort of metal or something. I wondered if that was just B.S. or what.

RP: It's almost prog-rock. It's not really metal - it's kind of heavy, but it's really interesting and kind of all over the place. You can't really describe it as any kind of genre because it's all in there - it's kind of like our stuff at times, although we're a little more straightforward and pop and rock. There's a lot of influences - those guys, you can tell they've listened to some records. But that's really good ... I've got the new Sebadoh record. It's pretty decent.

LH: Yeah, I just listened to most of that last night. I thought it was pretty cool - better than the last one.

RP: There's a guy named R. Pollard in that band.

LH: Oh - Russ Pollard?

RP: Yeah ...

LH: Yeah, every time someone writes a review (of Sebadoh) now, they say something like, "Well, I don't think he's related to Robert Pollard, but you couldn't tell" - because apparently, maybe he writes some songs.

RP: He wrote one. It's a good song, the one he wrote. It's kind of weird, it's kind of funny, because you know, there was that earlier, a few years back, a feud between Sebadoh and Guided by Voices. I think that's kind of ironic a little bit.

LH: I like the time you said, "Yeah, I think Lou Barlow's lyrics are boring; they're all about relationships."

RP: I think he's put out some really good songs, though. It gets to be a complicated game, man - the more popular you become, the more interested a label is, the more you get involved in the industry and you have people who are really on your side, pushing for you to do well and to sell records, songs played on the radio - it gets tougher, more difficult, especially as a songwriter. It makes you start to understand why people go, "What happened to those guys? They used to be great, but what the fuck, you know?" Some people see it as like a sell-out, some people see it as ... well, you see it in bands that become huge, like R.E.M. and those kind of bands, and you think, "Man, I wanna hear the old R.E.M.!" It's just a complicated game - it's more involved and it's harder for them to do that. First of all, when there's money behind them, and people, they want to hear something that they can move, that they can play on the radio, that they can market, so ... You couldn't play something, if R.E.M. did a song like something from Murmur or Chronic Town, it's just not radio-friendly anymore. You hear what kind of shit they play on the radio. It's gotta be big, and it's gotta be somewhat slick, without the slightest bit of noise or distraction. That's the thing with any band involved in our situation, even like Pavement or Sebadoh - they're dealing with trying to stay alive and make records and try to advance themselves somehow, step it up a notch, you know? Pavement - they've kind of given up on that shit, which I think is admirable. Their new record is really good, really kind of experimental. With us, we're kind of going for it a little bit on this record, and at the same time, I'm still doing my Robert Pollard thing, which is about not going for it.

LH: Have you heard any of the Elephant 6 bands?

RP: Yeah, I like some of those bands. We've played with some of those bands - we've played with Apples In Stereo. We played with a band in San Francisco - they're an Elephant 6 band, and I can't think of ...

LH: Oh, I read that too ... Beulah?

RP: Yeah, Beulah. They were good. Some of it is interesting, some of it's a little boring to me, but I think the whole concept of having this collective of people that live together and make music is a really great idea. It's just fascinating - makes you wanna hang out with them and listen to their music. Like I said, some of it's really good, other's a little too folky for me or something, I don't know. But I appreciate it, and I think that artistically, it's a really good thing.

LH: Yeah. If you came onto somebody that was new to GbV, what record would you tell them to go out and buy first of GbV's to get into the band?

RP: That's a tough question because everything's different - I would first ask them what kind of music they liked. If they were a total lo-fi guy, someone who's really into lo-fi or really poorly recorded music, I would tell them to get Vampire On Titus or Bee Thousand. Because we've had different phases - we had the whole phase where no one had ever heard of us and did stuff in the studio, but it wasn't very good. Then we had the four-track phase, and now we've got this, the big studio thing. I'd tell them to get two - I'd tell them to get Bee Thousand, and I'd tell them to get Mag Earwhig! maybe. Because then you've kind of got the whole scope - you've got the lo-fi stuff, and you've got the semi-big studio stuff. And obviously, when this new record comes out, it's going to be another level, it's like another big step up. That's what's good about us - that was the plan from the beginning, to go gradually, to do things gradually, from the way we recorded things, to do it slowly and gradually. People expected us, right after we got signed, right after Bee Thousand, to immediately jump into the big studio, and we didn't, we did it slowly and gradually. I think that helps with our staying power a little bit, you know?

LH: What do you think are five records, just in general, that every discerning rock fan should own?

RP: Five records that every rock fan should own? They should own Who's Next. I think everybody should own Who's Next. One should definitely own The White Album. You should have Big Star's Radio City, I think. Let's see ... it could almost be all Beatles records, all five of them. Let's see ... I always want to say The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway by Genesis - that weirds people out. But I love that record. I think Quadrophenia ... Wire's 154, you have to have that. That's a definite. There's four or five there for ya.

LH: At the Southgate House, the fans kind of rushed the stage during "Smothered In Hugs", and it was pretty chaotic - do you like that kind of thing?

RP: If it's at the end, I don't care. It was like, "We're ready to go, it's our last song, so come on up. Let's dance."

LH: Your album cover collages, I really like a lot. I was wondering if you ever thought of doing an art show or anything like that.

RP: We did at one time.

LH: You and Tobin (Sprout, ex-GbV guitarist and photorealist painter) or something.

RP: Yeah, someone asked us ... Matt Sweeney - do you know Matt Sweeney from Chavez?

LH: Just from playing with you and Chavez.

RP: Yeah, he and a couple of guys said that we should - they have shows up in New York all the time, exhibits, and they thought that we should do a show together. Toby could do his photo-realism, and I could do my collages. And we actually thought about it for awhile - for some reason we just didn't do it. I don't know - I don't really consider myself to be ... it'd be weird for me, "Check this piece out." I do the collages, basically, to come up with a cover. Actually, I got out a lot of my collages and covers and stuff that I haven't put as covers, and it would be fairly interesting to see them all mounted on a wall. People come and analyze them and stuff. So I don't know - I won't put that totally out of the question - I may do that. I don't know - now Toby lives pretty far away. But he does - he has shows. But I just never considered myself to be a visual artist. A lot of people have suggested that I do stuff with my collages. It's flattering, but I don't know.

LH: Yeah. You guys are going to be in a movie, right?

RP: Yeah. We were flown out to LA to be in a movie called "Dean Quixote". There's some kind of subtitle for it, but I can't recall. It was done by the producers of "Swingers" - did you see that movie, "Swingers"?

LH: Yeah.

RP: So, it should - I saw the stills; I didn't really see or meet anyone. I met a few people - I met the director. The director is Ryan Walker; he's on Postal Blowfish (GbV's Internet discussion group), I think. But, I saw stills from it. It looks cool - it looks kind of Lynchian a little bit, you know. But we were in the bar scene, which is supposedly a pivotal scene in the movie.

LH: Really?

RP: I guess it is. That's what they said. But we did three songs, and we were fucking hammered.

LH: The photos look good, on the web page.

RP: I haven't seen that.

LH: Yeah, on the GbV page, they have a bunch of really nice, glossy color photos from it, and you guys look good, actually.

RP: Oh, cool!

LH: You don't look any more hammered than normal.

RP: Oh, good. The first song we did, we did "Hot Freaks", and we fucked it up in the middle. We had to do take two. It was kind of embarrassing. "All right, take two. Come on guys, relax." You know, we were relaxed, just too relaxed.

LH: It's only independent film anyway.

RP: Yeah, I'm kinda looking forward to it. It's gonna be interesting; it's gonna be fun to tell people, "Hey, go down to Blockbuster and rent this video; we're in it."

LH: That's neat, that your live sound is going to be in the movie, as opposed to a lip-sync kind of thing.

RP: Well, we did it live first, and then we lip-synched what we did live, cause we did a few different takes of each one. But the actual music is live, so that's pretty cool, I think.

LH: Yeah ... let's see. I'm about out of my questions that I've got written down here ... Oh, so what are your touring plans for after you put out the new GbV record?

RP: Well, we're gonna tour the way we usually do - we're gonna stay out for two or three weeks, but we'll probably do it longer. We're gonna hit some places - go to Japan and Australia for the first time ... we're gonna hit smaller markets, also. Places we've never played - West Virginia and places like that. Idaho. (Both laugh.)

LH: There's gotta be some GbV fans in Idaho.

RP: There's gotta be some, you know? There's gotta be a couple in Maine.

LH: I wanna see you guys get mobbed at the airport in Japan like every American band does; I think that'd be fun.

RP: That'd be great.

LH: You can buy a kimono and stuff to wear on stage.

RP: Wow.

LH: Maybe a striped kimono or something.

RP: That would be nuts. Like the Walker Brothers or something. But yeah - I heard Japan's really cool; I'm kind of looking forward to going there. And I know Australia is cool, it's a great place. Oh - there's an Australian band I didn't mention that's really good called You Am I. Have you heard them?

LH: UMI? No, no.

RP: On Warner Brothers.

LH: Huh ... are they around now?

RP: Yeah, they're still around - as a matter of fact, they've been around for a long time, they play really good power pop.

LH: Oh - You Am I ... Yeah, I have heard of them.

RP: They used to rock harder, but now they're a little more kind of 60sish-sounding, a little bit. They used to be kind of like a little bit heavier, and I kind of like that a little bit better. But they're still good, they still write good songs, a little poppier these days. I like pop. Like I said, you've gotta play the game a little bit.

LH: Have you heard that new XTC record?

RP: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

LH: How did Doug end up staying in the band?

RP: He was always gonna stay. I'd already had it kinda planned. I wasn't gonna tell Cobra Verde until the tour was over, cause why would I tell them before the tour was over? The guy I was talking to - I don't even know who the fuck he was, seriously. And I think I said, "Just between you and I, I don't know what's going on."

LH: And then they went ahead and printed it anyway.

RP: And I was drunk, so all of those hard feelings started, and now those guys will never like me. So I said I was sorry, and that's all I can do. But it was going to be over with anyway, after we had two more shows and that was gonna be it. I didn't like the chemistry of that lineup. I didn't think we were having any fun, I didn't think they were having any fun - you gotta have fun, you know? But Doug was having fun, so Doug got to stay. Plus Doug's a phenomenal guitar player. I think he's the best. I always wanted Doug ... I always wanted Doug to be in my band. I get what I want, ba-by.

LH: You think this is the best GbV lineup?

RP: Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. I mean, it's not necessarily the closest GbV lineup, you know, with me and Kevin and Mitch and Toby - we'd been together for awhile. We'd gone through it. We were there when we first got recognized, you know, in NYC, and we kinda like ... there's some sort of closeness to that. But, technically, this is the best band, creatively. It would be the very best if we could keep Greg, but we're not going to be able to, so it'll have to be somebody else to take his place. You know, if Greg wants to come back ... and at one point, I told him - I got to the point of "Whenever you can play, you can play. Even if we're on tour - if you can play, I can tell the guy, the bass player, to step aside." But now, I've thought about that, and that wouldn't be fair. I don't think that would be fair. So - it's just like it's a gamble, and we tour, and all of a sudden, something happens where we have a hit, and all of a sudden we start making money, and we can - you know, things are going really well for us - it's going to be hard for me to ask the bass player to leave. Cause Greg's like, "Well, if we make a million dollars, then I can be in the band." It's the gamble that you have to take. So - man, I'm kind of ragging Greg a little bit, aren't I? That's too bad; he deserves it. (Laughter) You can write that shit about Greg.

LH: Have you been to our magazine yet? Had you heard about it at all before?

RP: Yeah, uh-huh. In fact, I think I've seen some stuff - I've gotten copies before where there's stuff with us in it, I think.

LH: Yeah, like everything you've put out since ... well, our first issue was the review of the Metro show you guys did in Chicago; we reviewed Waved Out and Kid Marine and ... everything really.

RP: You've been really nice to us; we appreciate it.

LH: Glad to do it.

RP: If you say the things I said about Greg, put at the end that I love him and he's like my brother and that's the reason I'm ragging his ass.

LH: OK. (Both laugh.) Well, I wish I could keep asking questions, but you know how it is ... especially since I've been up all night, but I really do appreciate the chance to talk to you.

RP: I hope that I answered them in some ... semi-articulately.

LH: Definitely so.

RP: I talk too much, especially on the phone, drinking coffee and shit, and I apologize.

LH: So, are you going to be writing songs today?

RP: I was working on some things today; I think I'm done working. I put in my 8:00 to 11:00 day, and now ... I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do. I might go over to Nate's and smoke some dope.

LH: So ... how did he get in the band, then? Where did he come from?

RP: Where did Nate come from? He was in the Breeders. He was in the Amps and the Breeders with Jim. He was a roadie on our tour, and it's a good story, because Nate - when we did a West Coast tour once - we were doing a whole U.S. tour, but we got out to Seattle, and Toby's wife went into labor, so we had to fly him home from Vancouver, and we did a show the next day in Seattle, and Nate was our roadie, and Nate learned all the songs in one night, and we played the next day with Nate.

LH: Damn.

RP: Yeah, so Nate's actually been in Guided by Voices before. Actually, when Kim Deal and I came up with the idea to form Tammy & The Ants, originally, and then it became Tammy & The Amps, and then it became The Amps, and then I quit before it ever happened. I told her to get Nate to take my place. So Nate's been an Amp and a Breeder. And a Guided by Voice. A Guided by Voices. In Guided by Voices. So he's been around. He's young. He's the youngest guy in the band, he's probably only 26 or 27. But he's been in the band for a ... he was actually in a good Dayton band called The Method a few years back. He used to hang out with Mitch and those guys. They kind of had their own Elephant 6 thing going on at Mitch's house. But yeah, he's been around awhile. Both he and Jim MacPherson were in the last incarnation of the Breeders. Although the Breeders are still gonna do something, somehow.

LH: That's what I've heard. Yeah, I'd kinda like to see that happen. Seems like rock's missing something like them.

RP: I would love ... Nate's got some stuff that I've been get him to let me listen to that they've done. Last Splash was phenomenal. Jim MacPherson's got gold records hanging on his wall. Well, I don't know if he's got them on his wall ... but yeah, I was telling him, "I wanna get a gold record. You got one ..." So that's what the plan is. Gold record time ... ba-by.

LH: Well, maybe I'll go ahead and let you go then. Thanks so much for talking to us; it's really been a thrill.

RP: Thank you, Lane, and good luck to you.

LH: Yeah, maybe if you guys come and play Indianapolis again, maybe we could have a beer before the show or something if you have time.

RP: Maybe we could do that ... is that place still around in Bloomington? Is there a place to play in Bloomington?

LH: Yeah, well ... the place you guys played before, I don't know, it might even be a little too small. There's another place you might look into called the Bluebird. That's where ... well, we don't even get much here anymore. Like all the indie-rock - the Smog and the post-rock, like Tortoise played at Second Story and bands like that. So, I don't know - I would like to think that maybe you guys would draw more than them.

RP: Uh ... yeah, probably, maybe. I guess it depends, because we've got a really hardcore following. There are certain people who fly in for every show. I don't really remember the place we played, but right now, I think we'd probably need a little bigger place that doesn't seem *real* big. But yeah, so we're gonna hit smaller markets ... so we may be to Bloomington sometime next year.

LH: That would be great. Good luck with the new GbV record. I really can't wait to hear it.

RP: Thanks, man ... I think you'll like it. Everybody who's listened to it - I haven't heard anybody that's ... it's got the Guided by Voices stamp on it, I've haven't heard them be disappointed in it.

LH: I love the songs live.

RP: Thanks, man. They're even better on the record. I think you'll dig it.

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