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Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > Loyalty |
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| Simple Unregistered User (8/15/01 6:14:26 am) Reply |
Loyalty
I believe being a loyal devotee of Master’s means getting involved in the difficult work of helping to fix his organization. Writing letters, calling, staying involved in service activities, and not putting up with their poor behavior when we see it. If you don't work there, get a job there. If you don't volunteer at your temple or center, then start doing so. Then act with character guided by Master's principles. But when you see improper behavior done in behalf of Master by Mother Center, agitate agitate agitate! Lets look at how we train children as an example of how to help this. They need discipline to learn. Up to now the power-ladies (many of the nun department heads) have worked in the dark with no review or feedback. Lets give them some feedback on how they are doing. |
| KS Unregistered User (8/17/01 2:38:42 pm) Reply |
Feedback
I agree, give them some feedback. Part of the reason they are able to get away with the things they do to people is that they live in a closed little world, cut off from reality and criticism. Once their behavior is brought out into the public's view, it will be forced to change. It will be a bloodbath of course. Management will resist change with all the power their lawyers and millions of dollars can muster. But the membership will not put up with their behavior once they know about it. In fact, once a mirror is setup at the Mother Center gate to allow these people to see themselves, and the membership to see them, I suspect they may just crush each other with the finger pointing and “cover your behinding” that will go on. Then maybe a real leader will emerge. What we can do to help is let the membership know what is going on. If we are honest it will help. |
| Imagine Unregistered User (8/20/01 1:53:01 pm) Reply |
Loyalty
Do you in all honesty think that agitating will solve anything? Isn't there even a slight possibility that some of the statements made here could be mistaken interpretations of individuals who are making wrong assumptions because of their bitterness? Remember anyone can say anything whether it's the truth or not as long as it's on an anonymous webpage. How to help? Let us all pray for each other that Guruji lift our consciousness and open our hearts to what he is saying to us - that only love can take his place. Meditate, read his writings, listen to the talks at Convocation and absorb the wonderful spiritual vibrations there. And then ask ourselves - are we honestly practicing Master's teachings? Or just venting anger on an anonymous web page, hoping everyone will believe it is really the truth? Why don't you spend all that time and energy concentrating on the good instead of the negation you think you perceive? You might find you like it! Bottom line: If those who are so disenchanted by SRF and Mother Center can't find it in their hearts to follow the advice of St. Francis, of Sr. Gyanamata and, above all, our own Gurus, then why waste your lives living in darkness trying to change something that doesn't need changing - and seek God in some other organization that better suits your needs - and go in peace and knowledge, if not the understanding, that Master loves you unconditionally even though you are hurting him through all this negative gossip. Imagine! |
| No
BS Unregistered User (8/20/01 2:51:08 pm) Reply |
Imagine's
comments
Gee, thanks, Imagine. I never thought of that. |
| KS Unregistered User (8/20/01 3:58:23 pm) Reply |
Imagine?
Yes, we honestly think that agitating will solve something. Doing nothing will certainly not solve anything. We are trying to change something that DOES need changing. I wish Mother Center could find it in their hearts to follow the advice of St. Francis, Sr. Gyanamata, and our Gurus. I really do. |
| SRFdevotee Unregistered User (8/20/01 4:14:41 pm) Reply |
Good post
Thanks for posting. I think it's good to engage in dialogue, including people with different points of view and background. All you say is true--as far as it goes. One should practice all the spiritual practices, and one should maintain the right attitude, with no personal rancor. I agree that many of the posts here appear to be bitter, and may well be, in fact, bitter. But their expression may be part of a necessary healing process. You cannot verify from an anonymous web board the truth of any statement, of course. You are free to believe what you wish. Let me just give you my reflections and personal experience, and hope that you can realize the point goes two ways: it may be that there is a reality you do not wish to face, because it requires self-reflection and difficult choices. Your own belief is well-stated in your comment about "trying to change something that doesn't need changing." If that were true, you would be fully correct. What is missing here is that you cannot verify the falsity of what people have experienced, either. You may not choose to believe that these things take place, and that there are serious problems within SRF, but you cannot claim to have any greater knowledge about those matters, either. In the end, everyone believes what they want to believe. You ask, "Isn't there even a slight possibility that some of the statements made here could be mistaken interpretations..." Yes, there is such a possibility. I would even agree that at least some of the statements fit in this category. Now: Isn't there even a slight possibility that some of the statements made here are fully correct and true? I suspect that your answer would be No--it is not possible. SRF is, and by definition has to be, perfect, so any negative experience has to be, again by definition, the problem of the person experiencing it. There is no possibility of dialogue with such a point of view. |
| xmonk Unregistered User (8/20/01 4:30:55 pm) Reply |
Imagine
For the person who wrote "Imagine", I notice that you aren't very happy with those who write in anonymity. First of all, I notice that you didn't sign your name. I don't know your reason for that. It's really your business. But, don't come down on people who have had first hand dealings with Mother Center and know how retaliatory they can be. Their battery of high paid lawyers would be on them in a second. There are real problems here which sincere people are trying to address without the repercussions that they know are waiting for them if they are identified speaking of the existing problems within SRF. The only way that these situations can be alleviated is to bring them to light. These situations have been hidden and lied about far too long. When more people are finally aware of the shenannigans that are going on and have gone on, perhaps something will change. Turning the other cheek just hasn't worked. So, I say more power to these brave souls who are shedding light on what has become a very disgusting situation over the years. |
| No
BS Unregistered User (8/21/01 9:49:06 am) Reply |
Imagine's
comments
For KS, Xmonk, etc. Just wanted to clarify that my earlier brief reaction to Imagine's posting was a little on the sarcastic side. I mention this because I wouldn't want you to feel unsupported or denigrated. I suspect you may have had years of that already. For Imagine -- I do hope you can entertain the possibility that these people are indeed sincere and motivated by their desire to see Master's organization better reflect his unconditional love, light and truth. States of pain and perhaps bitterness are a natural human reaction to having been hurt and disappointed by the people you have trusted and obeyed. Trying to ferret out which side or story is the real one is exhausting and I only hope that SRF will consider the idea that full disclosure and the straight scoop is in the best interest of Master's work. I suppose the idea of disclosing the situation with Peoplesoft would naturally give those in charge a shuddder or two! But I believe Master's devotees around the world would understand that SRF makes mistakes just like everyone else -- like they themselves do. They would probably be relieved to know this. And all can be made well. After all, the wizard of Oz managed to get Dorothy back home -- even when the curtain fell away and exposed him as just a human being like everyone else. |
| Dakota Unregistered User (8/25/01 1:13:31 am) Reply |
Imagine
For those of you who think that these people are being negative. Hog-wash. The bottom line it’s about TRUTH. Truth is neither good nor bad or up nor down, it just is. I am not an exmonk or nun. I am not associated with any other organization than SRF. I have had a web page up since Jan 1999, before fore all this happened with the monks and nuns. I have spent and enormous amount of time documenting what I see. The lies about Daya Mata being appointed to president, the forgery of Yogananda’s name for political reason, the lies about Rajasi, the lies and cover up and abuse of Durga Mata, the non publishing of the original writing. It is so oblivious to me that there is no one library of all the writings that SRF has access to so that we might all benefit from them. If you control the history, then you control most of the masses. What you see happening is not new, it has been going on for years, and most of the devotees refuse to see it. We can not change something we refuse to see. That is why this board is vital. Gandhi realized the necessity to use the press. Without the press it would have been impossible to change the British government, without force.. As Gandhi once said “Do you fight to punish or do you fight to change?” I suggest we do not fight at all. I suggest that we take a stand for the truth that we are and come what may, we live it. No matter who is standing in front us. Presidents, monks or nuns, we are all children of the same Creator, THERE ARE NO FAVORITES! I also suggest that we boycot any books or tapes that are not Yogananda’s till SRF finds time to finish getting the Guru’s work out first, before their own. What seems so hard for many of my reader to understand I am not angry, bitter or hurt. I am taking a stand for TRUTH. The TRUTH that I see. One does not fight the darkness, one turns on the light. From my web site: www.yogananda-dif.org/betrayal.htm "Just as it is necessary for individuals to accept and even welcome challenges to their maps of reality and modi operandi if they are to grow in wisdom and effectiveness, so it is also necessary for organizations to accept and welcome challenges if they are to be viable and progressive institutions." - The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck, M.D. The second law of Thermodynamics states that natural processes in close systems move from order to chaos. A closed system is one that does not receive energy from the outside. Applying this to a business situation we can see that if an organization does not have energy, information, or transactions from the outside it eventually gets corrupt. If one is to understand the law of Thermodynamics in a spiritual terms:” every single free choice you ever undertake arises out of one of the only two possible thoughts there are: a thought of love or a thought of fear. Fear is the energy which contracts, closes down, draws in, runs, hides, hoards, harms. Love is the energy which expands, opens up , sends out, stays, reveals, shares, heals." Conversations with God and uncommon dialogue" by Neale Walsch. With these definitions we can then see why the law of Thermodynamics works. A system goes into chaos when it closes down, draws in, hoards. The chaos is because the system is driven by a Fear based motivation. Only a system that is Loved base can thrive and grow. Unfortunately chaos is the direction SRF is headed towards today. I want to show you that it is from their misguided concepts of their own reality that SRF has basically isolated themselves from any outside input. The fear of losing control. The fear of losing the image, or to be less than your image is to lose. The fear that hoards the followers and the encouragement of the following. SRF has gotten enmeshed and trapped in their own beliefs. They have not been accountable or responsible for their words or behavior. "We promise according to our hopes, but we perform according to our fears.” What ever happened to Yogananda? I have watched over the years, the gradual disappearance of the essence of Paramhansa Yogananda. It is being replaced, subtlety with personality worship and the images and visions of what the Daya Dynasty want us to know and believe. This erosion has come under the guise of direct discipleship, training by the Guru, position, perfection, following, obedience, enlightenment, service to the "organization" and lack of historical documentation. Clearly the role the Daya Dynasty has chosen for the organization (SRF) has not been one of historian or caretaker of Yogananda's works. They have chosen rather to use the organization (SRF), to confer on themselves the position of being Yogananda's representative, channel and spokes persons. The Daya Dynasty has used lies, rumors and forgery to support their deceptions – delusions. They have controlled and manipulated the facts and the data. With their mouths they tell you of their loyalty, training and understanding of their Guru. With their action they go to great lengths to rework and redo what Yogananda was. They show very little understanding of basic principles and fail to see the manifestations of what they have done. The Daya Dynasty has been grossly incompetent and negligent and has managed to lose the copyright to many of the original writing of Paramhansa Yogananda. With their 'editing' they have mutteled many of his writings and poems. It appears that the Daya Dynasty is using Paramhansa Yogananda and his works for the perpetration of their own pursuit and self aggrandizement. Like any other corporation we see today, you must buy into the corporate belief. system if you want to maintain your position. Like employees of a tobacco company must believe against all proof that cigarette’s are not an endangerment to your health and that what they are doing is OK. If you don’t buy into the vital lie, then you will never go anywhere within the company structure, you might not even have a job. It took outside pressure to impact the tobacco companies, because change was impossible from within. It is one of the object of this web site to be part of that outside more objective source to help SRF take a look at what they have done and are doing. You can’t change something if you don’t see the problem. It is our sincere hope that SRF will see the need to become more accountable, truthful, prudent and conscientious in their maintenance of Paramhansa Yogananda’s legacy, and not their own. SRF may be so far gone as not to be able to change, and that’s OK too. At least this might help others to hold SRF in a different light so that they might respond more appropriate to the situation. "For churches are the hopes of men, varied in their hue, but I am far beyond the church, the Yeast in all you do. Do not see me and church as one for this is not the Truth. The churches come and go and burn! I AM CONSTANT TRUTH!" Excerpts from the Poem - "I AM YOGANANDA" by Rudolf Kovar 1992 |
| wiser Unregistered User (8/30/01 6:34:56 am) Reply |
The key to SRF
motives
I have been in SRF for 28 years and a monk for 15 years as well--I believe I have the key as to the cause of all actions large and small in SRF. I have mentioned it to monks and laypeople as well on occasion. It does explain everything and unlocks the why's as to everything. The real key is simple in action----- the real God in SRF is Public Relations---there is no other God, and if they mention another God, it is only because it is good P.R. I have not seen one thing done in SRF that was done that didn't have this in mind---so many have asked me---why do the directors do this or Ma do this? Every single time if you look at it from this formula everything they do makes sense and is rational. Why is this the single most concept in SRF? It is based a bit on good intentions and ignorance. Daya Ma has for years tried to build SRF, no different from Master. Letters have poured in for many years of devotees being helped, psychologically, physically, and spiritually. Because of this one gets a kind of blinder that we are special, we are a great work and you do whatever it takes to spread this work because it can help so many people. Good P.R. does this, the better the p.r. the more people will follow and contribute money, believing it can help everyone. So p.r. becomes of prime importance to spread the work. But what happens is that because of this noble desire---truth gets pushed aside because p.r. is more important---p.r. brings in the money to spread the work---so SRF will use white lies (as they see it) and manipulate people etc. etc. because they honestly believe it is good cause. Everything is put aside because of this---if people get hurt or there are lies, it is ok, it is for a noble cause (similar to religious wars for centuries, where atrocities can happen, because it is for a good cause---to save souls). But Truth doesn't care about noble causes---karma follows if any cosmic law is broken---just a matter of time before they have to answer to it all---God is not mocked. Everything is perfect and is exactly as it should be. SRF is a great cause, but so are all religions. Humans just naturally think that their religion is the best because of the ego principle. SRF is no different, they think they are the greatest, and they are if you are progressing in it---it isn't if you are not. Spiritual egotism has taken hold of the directors---and when you think about it---it is only human. For years devotees telling them and treating them as if they are gods---they are not, but it is only human to believe your own press. Rock stars, celebrities go through the same delusions---after so many tell them for years that they are great---they start to believe it. So of course the directors are never wrong about anything and so nothing will really never change until the next generation. So relax----all the gold is not in the organization ---it is in the meditation----do that and forget the outer circus. Your spiritual progress is really all that really matters---outer stuff will always be. As long as there are humans there will always be mistakes and problems. I have studied other spiritual groups as well and I have not seen one that is any different from SRF as far as problems go. Life is short, the mind loves to go to the circus atmosphere of outer things---just try and slow the mind down to see who you really are---once you do that, none of this really matters. |
| KS Unregistered User (8/30/01 11:33:46 am) Reply |
What else
matters?
What else matters is that devotees get on the path, start to work hard, then experience SRF management and quit their progress they get so discouraged. We want to prevent that. We want to set an expectation as early as possible to keep looking directly to Master. |
| FromLA Unregistered User (9/1/01 1:54:04 pm) Reply |
Who are you?
I wonder if you are still out there, Imagine. As someone else pointed out, it is interesting that you are posting anonymously. Since you clearly believe you are defending SRF, why wouldn't you want to be known? Especially since anyone who, in your eyes, might be confused or misled by what is posted here, could then contact you directly for the "truth." Wouldn't you want to make yourself available to do that? I also notice that you haven't posted again. My guess is that you feel it is a waste of time, since the people posting here are in deep delusion and there is no hope of saving them. Would you be willing to engage in dialgoue over these issues and problems? You can remain anonymous to do it. I posted a similar message on another thread, for the shill who posted the link to friendsofsrf, a phony site set up by Mother Center as a front. Let's see if anyone is willing to put their time where their claims are, and engage. People who see that the emperor has no clothes have a good reason for remaining anonymous. some of them have families. All of them know they will be mercilessly harassed by "Master's chosen" if they publicly say what they know. Many of them have already had this done to them. And you smugly sit around and preach about just practicing love and not being negative. |
| test Unregistered User (9/2/01 2:16:23 pm) Reply |
Test post
this is a test --- not life --- this post |
| widdlewaggle Unregistered User (9/21/01 7:54:28 pm) Reply |
Loyalty? To
who....
I want to thank the person who started this board. It will bring about a lot of healing for many, many people. I know first hand what happens to people who think independently, (and by this I mean, not breaking the law, treating other people with respect, opposing politcal stupidity.) I was one of them. I was in the ashram for many years and thankfully what I experienced others, too, experienced. It is really important to bring all of these issues into the light of day. That is the only way the healing process can begin. I have friends who were in the ashram with me and have repeatedly been writing letters to MW and get no response. The problem we encountered in the ashram is endemic to the organization. How sad. I have documented some of the things I had experienced in the ashram (when I was in the ashram) and it happened to many people. The organization is far from perfect and monks do NOT like documentation. Written documentation cannot be easily changed on a whim to suit purposes of convenience or political gain. So, I'd just like to thank the person who started this forum. I am truly grateful. Thank you. I have invited other people who had to visit these forums. I think there will be many more posts soon. Many by me at least. At times I've wondered whether I was being loyal to SRF or Master. It occurred to me that SRF is not Master and Master is not SRF. We each have the teachings, the lessons. So decisions I made in the ashram were to remain loyal to Master and do my best to help SRF rectify some issues. Part of the problem is that people in charge (I noticed) support people who behave similar to them. This does not leave a lot of room for growth. I will post more later about my experiences. But I again reiterate: All of these issues need to be brought to light for healing to take place. |
| Shadowman Unregistered User (9/22/01 12:51:39 am) Reply |
Want to hear of your
experiences
Hi Widdlewaggle, Welcome to the board. I've gained immensely from the interactions here. Please do share your stories; we need to deepen the collective picture of what's happened to us. |
| 4py Unregistered User (9/22/01 1:48:48 pm) Reply |
Hey Shadowman,
Thanks for your response. I sincerely hope that my experiences will help other people to deepen their understanding of things that happen around them. Just so you know, I am using the alias '4py' because it is shorter to type. 4py |
| 4py Unregistered User (9/22/01 5:02:04 pm) Reply |
Imagine...
I am really not sure how to respond to your post but I will try. Where to begin is the question. Quote: Ahhh. Bitterness. Isn’t that a judgement or simply a projection of your own personal perceptions? Is there any truth in any of these postings? Was it not Sri Yukteswar who said "It is not a question of belief; the scientific attitude one should take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." So the question is, ‘Is there any truth to what is posted here, right’? How about, ‘how do we resolve these issues? When people go to war, don’t they sometimes come back with visible scars? Missing limbs, etc.? Sometimes people are bitter due to their experiences in wars. Sometimes this cannot be helped. Sometimes people do not know how to best express their pain so they may seem bitter. So instead of “judging” their descriptions as “bitterness”, how about showing some compassion for their pain. Just because you cannot see the scars people wear does not mean they are not there. I personally know of monks who were lied about, put down, suppressed, etc. for 10 to 15 years! What kind of scars do you think they might be carrying? Do you think anyone less than an avatar would walk away from situations like this completely unscathed? Get real. You write about the mistaken interpretations of individuals. How do you know? Have you lived their lives? Have you walked in their shoes? I feel for you because I don’t know if you’re writing for you or for someone else or for some ideal you have not personally assimilated. Quote: Yes, I agree with prayer. But prayer without action is naught. Does one simply fervently pray, “Oh Dear Lord, grant me one million dollars,” and then go sit and do nothing? I think we should pray and act. Pray and act. Pray for guidance and act on that guidance. We all need our consciousness lifted, our hearts opened, that Perfect Love. When I was in the ashram I was told that if we practiced even one-millionth of what Master taught, we would reach God. Are you practicing Master’s teachings? Why are you posting here? Are you angry? You are anonymous like most every other person here. You write of negation we think we perceive. Hmmmm…. So you have inferred by the posting on the board here that this is a negative board. It’s simply perceived. Our perceptions are wrong. Could your perceptions be wrong, perhaps? It is interesting to note that you did not say anywhere in your post how you feel about all the shared pain written in these forums. If a child came to you and expressed pain and ‘bitterness’ would you tell them to snap out of it and practice the teachings of love? Or would you hold them and show them love? There’s a big difference. One is the head in control the other is the heart in control. Quote: Bottom line, huh? I like bottom line statements. 1. I am not disenchanted with SRF and MW, nor am I angry. SRF can never be a perfect organization because it is made up of imperfect people. The organization cannot exist without people. (Or maybe I’m mistaken here?) 2. I don’t care if people believe what I write or not. I know what I know. I know what I experienced. And other people know what they experienced. The connections people will make here is that SRF managers are no different than managers in any other corporation in the world. What I mean is that some are sincerely seeking God, others sincerely seeking power or position or authority, and others are clueless. Br. Anandamoy stated, “SRF has no monopoly on saints.” Think about this. If all the managers are not saints, then I guess they’re people like you and me. And I know I have to put my pants on one leg at a time. How about you? 3. Seek God in [an] organization? Whoa! Think about this statement. It is very very telling. Read it again. 4. I know that Master loves me unconditionally. Are we hurting him with negative gossip? Negative gossip? As opposed to positive gossip? Do you know how many people I have witnessed who had their credibility impunged by negative gossip with no basis in fact? A friend of mine once stated that it appeared that SRF (on the monk’s side) was using the management paradigm: MBR. Management By Rumor. What he meant by this is that when a monk in authority spoke to another monk in authority disparaging a third person not present to defend himself, it became gospel. Nothing was ever verified. No one stopped to ask “What happened?” or “Why?” or “How did this occur?” Because there is no structure, there is no accountability. People are given responsibility but no authority. This is a great way to undermine self-esteem, morale, motivation. Here are some very brief examples of MBR in action and some SRF buzzwords and phrases (which if you hear you should question): Inharmonious – Person A is inharmonious. (Reason: Person A is forcing a monk to be truthful. The only information passed up is the key phrase, ‘Person A is inharmonious’.) Under stress – Person B is under stress. (Reason: Person B is given a job the supervisor knows he has absolutely no skill in. Person B is sent to school for training to no avail. Since the superviser cannot be wrong the only information passed up is that ‘person B is under stress’.) There are other examples. Many nights I cried myself to sleep in the ashram because of things I was asked to do. Many of my friends related the same experience of crying, too. I once spent over 72 hours awake being unable to sleep or meditate because my conscious mind would not let me sleep. It was screaming at me and I wanted to ignore it. So, “Imagine”, what would you do in this situation? Huh? Any decision a person makes to go against the grain of something he believes in with his whole being is not a small undertaking. Have you been asked to break the law by your supervisor lately? What would you do? Have you been told to lie repeatedly by your supervisor? What would you do? What if you had no place to go because the issues you brought to light threatened the positions of too many people. Have you ever been asked to hide things from the Directors? What would you do in that situation? What if you did not know what you were doing was illegal or morally wrong because you did not have all the information but found out later, say, 2 months or so? What would you do? Has your supervisor asked you to risk your life lately? Imagine, have you ever had your supervisor come to you and say negative things about someone not present? Did you tell them to stop? Or did you nod, smile and agree? God be with us all. 
|
| Supportive Unregistered User (9/22/01 6:05:10 pm) Reply |
4PY's comments
Way to go, 4PY! Maybe Imagine is still around looking at the board and will have food for thought. Actually, he sounds like someone who has been trained in OP or by OP. He has the wording down. Well trained. Perhaps he is still in OP. Perhaps he thinks you have been totally overcome by Satan and is at this moment praying for you so he won't have to think at all. |
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