SUZANNE SEGAL QUOTES SRI RAMANA:
Suzanne Segal (19551997), who, as a young woman, age 27, basically out of nowhere, waiting for a bus one day, Awakened to the Absolute. She spent the rest of her life seeking out others of similar ilk in an effort to understand and place her Enlightenment experience into context, for herself as well as others.
The following quote is from HER book "COLLISION WITH THE INFINITE" quoting words of Sri Ramana Maharshi. Below her quote, for your own edification, are the original quotes by Ramana and their source so they may be read in context:
"Reading more and more of Ramana's words led me to an astounding passage. When asked by a disciple if it was necessary to be associated with the wise (sat-sanga) in order for the Self to be realized, Ramana answered:
"...association with the unmanifest sat or absolute existence (is required).... The sastras say that one must serve (be associated with) the unmanifest sat for twelve years in order to attain Self-realization...but as very few can do that, they have to take second best, which is association with the manifestsat, that is, the Guru."
What astounded Segal about the passage is that she was closing in on the twelfth year of her experiencing of no-self or the unmanifest sat. She felt the "twelve year rule" was somehow important. When others read the same or similar passages such as the Wanderling's in ZEN ENLIGHTENMENT: The Path Unfolds for example, they too wonder of the importance and how or if it applies to them and any quest or search for Enlightenment. Lets explore further:
The original, citing Ramana, is from "Silent Teachings & Sat-sanga" and reads as follows:
Questioner: You say that Association with the Wise (Sat-sanga) (see) and service of them is required of the disciple.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: Yes, the first really means association with the unmanifest Sat or absolute existence, but as very few can do that, they have to take second best which is association with the manifest Sat, that is, the Guru. Association with sages should be made because thoughts are so persistent. The sage has already overcome the mind and remains in peace. Being in his proximity helps to bring about this condition in others, otherwise there is no meaning in seeking his company. The guru provides the needed strength for this, unseen by others.
Questioner: Is it necessary to serve the Guru physically?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: The Sastras (scriptures) say that one must serve a Guru for twelve years in order to attain Self-realization. What does the Guru do? Does he hand it over to the disciple? Is not the Self always realized? What does the common belief mean then? Man is always the Self and yet he does not know it. Instead he confounds it with the non-Self, the body, etc. Such confusion is due to ignorance. If ignorance is wiped out the confusion will cease to exist and the true knowledge will be unfolded. By remaining in contact with realised sages the man gradually loses the ignorance until its removal is complete. The eternal Self is thus revealed.
NOTE: In regards to "serving" the Guru for twelve years or otherwise, Sri Ramana, in the opening paragraphs of the same source relates the following:
This flow of power from the Guru can be received by anyone whose attention is focused on the Self or on the form of the Guru; distance is no impediment to its efficacy. This attention is often called Sat-sanga, which literally means association with being. Sri Ramana wholeheartedly encouraged this practice and frequently said that it was the most efficient way of bringing about a direct experience of the Self. Traditionally it involves being in the physical presence of one who has realized the Self, but Sri Ramana gave it a much wider definition. He said that the most important element in Sat-sang was the mental connection with the Guru; Sat-sang takes place not only in his presence but whenever and wherever one thinks of him.
SOURCE: Silent Teachings & Sat-sanga. Sri Ramana Maharshi as found in THE GURU with preamble by David Godman.
According to Ramana's quotes above, if ignorance is wiped out the confusion will cease to exist and the true knowledge will be unfolded. By remaining in contact with realized sages (i.e., sitting before Ramana for example) the man gradually loses the ignorance until its removal is complete. The Eternal Self is thus revealed. The above also quote Ramana as saying the Sastras say that one must serve a Guru for twelve years in order to attain Self-realization. But, what of Ramana himself or the young boy found in the link below who entered the ashram for the first time and within an hour experienced the Absolute under the grace and light of the Maharshi?
SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI: THE LAST AMERICAN DARSHAN
RECOUNTING A YOUNG BOY'S NEARLY INSTANT TRANSFORMATION INTO THE ABSOLUTE DURING HIS ONLY DARSHAN WITH THE MAHARSHI
No twelve years in either case, Ramana or the boy. Are there then exceptions?
People get all perplexed over the aforementioned " serving the guru twelve year rule" as cited by Suzanne Segal quoting Sri Ramana, et al, and any outcome thereof of either adhering to or not adhering to it...and if NOT, how would that impact a person downstream, "Enlightenment-wise," if at all.
First, although seeping over into the precepts of other religious beliefs, the concept is primarily a Hindu belief, no doubt rising originally from a long compilation of favorable results now lost to the mists of time. Secondly, Ramana is extrapolating loosely from the scriptures and, in and by doing so, has been quoted over and over so many times in so many places it has taken on a life of it's own and become "law" without the original sastra being cited or the original words quoted. Remember, as far as steadfastly adhering to the the dictums of the written word is concerned, the all-time champion of Enlightenment, the Buddha said:
"...that neither the repetition of scriptures, nor self-torture, nor sleeping on the ground, nor the repetition of prayers, penances, hymns, charms, mantras, incantations and invocations can bring the real happiness of Nirvana. Instead the Buddha emphasized the importance of making individual effort in order to achieve spiritual goals."
(source)
So, of course, the end result of Enlightenment itself, as well as Zen and any Self Realization as it is sometimes called in Hinduism, ultimately falls outside or beyond the written word of the scriptures...that is ANYBODY'S scriptures, sutras, sastras, or doctrines anyway, so in a sense any perplexity or anything else is moot. However, the question still arises, where does the "twelve year" idea come from? Again, it is basically a Hindu thing, more specifically from SAIVITE HINDUISM. Now there are going to be those that disagree when fine-tuning to a specific point, but in a general overall broadbrush view, the "twelve year rule" initial seed sprouts there. Saivite Hinduism believe Siva is God. Within the context of that belief is what has come to be called the Holy Order of Sannyasa.
Traditionally, Sannyasa Dīksha is restricted to unmarried men, though some modern orders have accepted qualified women. As a rule in most orders, if a candidate enters monastic training before age twenty-five and meets other qualifications, he may, generally after a minimum of twelve years of preparation and training, take the sannyasin's lifetime vows, called Holy Orders of Sannyasa. Only a sannyasin can bring another into the ancient order of sannyasa. However, since the purpose is God Realization, most candidates seek initiation from a spiritually advanced knower of God who can bring them into Parashiva. Sannyasa Dīksha is given in simple or most formal ways. The formal rites include the shaving of the head, conveyance of certain esoteric teachings, abjuration of the worldly life and Dharma, administration of monastic vows, conducting of the novitiate's funeral rites and the giving of the kavi vestments. (source)
FOR MORE ON THE "TWELVE YEAR RULE" SEE:
- DHARMASASTRA OF GAUTAMA: Aphorisms of the Sacred Law, Chapter II, Verse 45, 46
45. He shall remain a student for twelve years in order (to study) one (recension of the Veda),
46. Or, if (he studies) all (the Vedas) twelve years for each,
KARMA YOGA
The path of Karma Yoga, that of works or deeds, is the practice of many Hindus. Varnashrama Dharma describes the Karma Yoga model. Dharma (social and religious duty) depends on which varna (social class) one is born into and what ashrama (stage of life [student,householder, forest dweller, homeless wanderer]) one is in. The word Karma generally means action, here it means proper action and Yoga means the attaining of proper state of mind to perform proper action.
Four classes (varnas) makeup this model for the social structure:
(1) Brahmins are the guardians of spiritual values, the religious teachers and priests. A required twelve years of study acquaints practitioners with the ritual and practice of this class.
(2) Ksatriyas, rulers and warriors, oversee the land or kingdom. Eight years of study are necessary for members.
(3) Vaisyas, the merchants, control cash, agricultural produce and livestock. Vaisyas require four years of study.
(4) Sudras are serfs accorded service positions, being members of the lowest class.
ĀPASTAMBA PRASNA I, PATALA 1, KHANDA, 2.
(Such a man) shall keep for twelve years the rules prescribed for a student who is studying the three Vedas. Afterwards he may be initiated. Then he shall bathe, reciting the Pāvamānis and the other texts.
It should be noted as well Ramana himself was NOT formally initiated into sannyasa.(see) He was Awakened to the Absolute at age seventeen basically out of nowhere with little or no formal religious background, and definitely without a personal guru, so in the end none of it, serving twelve years, etc., may really be necessary. At least in the case of Sri Ramana it wasn't, so it would follow such would be the case for just about anyone. As written in the book Ramana Maharshi and his Philosophy of Existence:
"As he came out of the temple and was walking along the streets of the town, someone called out and asked whether he wanted his tuft removed. He consented readily, and was conducted to the Ayyankulam tank where a barber shaved his head. Then he stood on the steps of the tank and threw away into the water his remaining money. He also discarded the packet of sweets given by the Bhagavatar's wife. The next to go was the sacred thread he was wearing. As he was returning to the temple he was just wondering why he should give his body the luxury of a bath, when there was a downpour which drenched him." (source)
For Ramana that was about the height of it. Thus said, however, there are two forms of Sannyasa:
- sannyasa-vidvat
- vividisii-sannyasa
The first, sannyasa-vidvat(sometimes: Aparka Marg), comes upon a man of itself and, whether he likes it or not, he is seized by an inner compulsion. The light has shone so brightly within, that he has become blind to all 10,000 things of the world. As it is, probably the best known case is that of Sri Ramana Maharshi, although by no means is such an experience totally unique. Whether such a man should receive the formal initiation to sannyasa or not, matters very little. He has already become an avadhata, one who has renounced everything according to the primitive tradition which existed before any rules had even been thought of. This is that original sannyasa without the name, which was described in Brihadaranyakopanishad: "Once a man has come to know Him (the great unborn Atman), he becomes a muni. Desiring him alone as their loka, the wandering monks begin to roam." (4.4.22)** Although somewhat off topic it should be added that the aforementioned tradition of wandering monks (parivrajaka) continued from its original roots through to Buddhism and on to Zen. Traveling on foot, known as hsing chiao, is an ancient tradition with Zen wanderlings and considered the Third Stage or phase in Zen training.
The other kind of sannyasa, vividisii-sannyasa, is taken by a man in order to get jnana (wisdom) and moksa (liberation). It is a sure sign of the greatness of Indian society that its tradition encourages a man to devote the last stage of his life to the sole quest for the Self, renouncing all else as if he were dead already. Sannyasa, when genuinely lived with all its implications, is certainly a man's most direct route for becoming a jnani and finding liberation. Even then it is clear that no one would ever take sannyasa unless he had already glimpsed the light in his own depths and heard the summons within. (source)
The ambivalence of sannyasa is such that, in the last resort, when stripped of all rules and outward signs, it can no longer be differentiated from the spontaneous inner renunciation of any Awakened man. Nothing external can serve as the sign of the sannyasi. He may roam throughout the world, he may hide himself in caves and jungles, and equally he may live in the midst of the multitude and even share in the world's work without losing his solitude. The unperceptive will never notice him; only the evamvid (the one who knows thus) will recognize him, since he too abides in the depth of the Self. However, anyone who is already in the slightest degree Awakened cannot fail to experience something of his radiance--a taste, a touch, a gleam of light--which only the interior sense can perceive, and which leaves behind it a truly wonderful impression.
For comparison purposes with the above, see: Pratyeka Buddha as well as TURIYATITA: Chidakasa in Cosmic Consciousness. For more on Aparka Marge see Zen and the Transmission of Spiritual Power.
Fundamentally, our experience as experienced is not different from the Zen master's. Where
we differ is that we place a fog, a particular kind of conceptual overlay onto that experience
and then make an emotional investment in that overlay, taking it to be "real" in and of itself.
(PLEASE CLICK)
THE CODE MAKER, THE ZEN MAKER
OF SHANGRI-LA, SHAMBHALA, GYANGANJ, BUDDHISM AND ZEN
ZEN ENLIGHTENMENT IN A NUTSHELL
30 MINUTES TO ENLIGHTENMENT
CLICK
HERE FOR
ENLIGHTENMENT
ON THE RAZOR'S
EDGE
SEE:
SUZANNE SEGAL
SEE ALSO:
THE WANDERLING
(please click)
VARNASHRAMA DHARMA The earliest reference to the Varnashrama Dharma is to be found in the Rig-Veda, wherein they are represented as parts of the body of the Creator. This is a poetic image indicating the organic nature of the society of the time.
The system degenerated to an oppressive stratification which plagued India for a long time and is a vehement testimony to the failings of human nature. The dream of the sages was to organize the society into a cooperative hierarchy much like the Hindu joint family, where elders had greater freedom and responsibility, and the younger ones had greater shelter and protection. But, over the time, this idealistic agenda gave way to unforeseen circumstances under which individual genius had no scope, heredity assumed undeserved importance, and initiative was killed. What was made for order and progress made for order at the expense of progress. Even in its degenerated form, this theocratic ideal saved the Hindu society from disruption during the centuries when a strong central government was either non-existent or was frequently changing hands.
On one occasion a caste-ridden brahmin insulted the Buddha saying. "Stop, thou shaveling! Stop, thou outcast!"
The Great Bodhisattva, without any feeling of indignation, gently replied:
NAPATA SUTTA I.7 Vasala Sutta: It should be noted not all religions, cultures and spiritual beliefs buy into, back, or practice such a concept as found in the quote, in whole or in part --- not even some that fall within the boundries of Buddhism itself. Although the start or end point along the edges of mainstream Buddhism may not be clearly delineated like an escarpment rising up out of a sea of non-believers, adherents that fall under the established spectrum of Buddhism run the gamut from the Parivrajaka to the fully entrenched ritual and robe laden, with monasteries, hierarchy, and little hats. To wit:
"One of the problems faced by organized religions, or cultures that hold deep traditional beliefs that fall into the realm of things spiritual, is that they have to give the people something. People raised in that something or new people transitioning into that something, expect from that something some sort of positive spiritual results. Usually those spiritual results are motivated by some sort of trappings. If they do get positive results, at least as perceived in the mind of the devotee, parishioner, or follower, then, for them it's working. If it doesn't work then the devotee is pointed to others that it did work for. If that doesn't solve the dilemma they are encouraged to work harder."
The above quote from:
NOTE: For those who may be so interested, the source and origin for the oft cited quote below can be found by clicking HERE.
"...that neither the repetition of scriptures, nor self-torture, nor sleeping on the ground, nor the repetition of prayers, penances, hymns, charms, mantras, incantations and invocations can bring the real happiness of Nirvana. Instead the Buddha emphasized the importance of making individual effort in order to achieve spiritual goals."
Formally accepted into the Holy Order of Sannyasa or not, it should be noted that the respect, status, and full acceptance of Sri Ramana's Awakening to the Absolute as a fully Enlightened being is graphically underlined by the actions of equally revered or similar like status holy men. For example, when Bharati Krishna Tirtha, a known Enlightened being and the Sankaracharya (Pontiff) of the Govardhan Math, Puri from 1925 to 1960 AD, visited the ashram of Sri Ramana he sat on the floor like everyone else, even though Ramana had arranged for a raised seat for him to sit.
Birth makes not a man an outcast,
Birth makes not a man a brahmin;
Action makes a man an outcast,
Action makes a man a brahmin.
Discourse on Outcasts
A SHAMANIC JOURNEY OUTSIDE THE TRADITION
