Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Advice on Learning PCB Design

[Bob Fearon <bfearon@crosslinkinc.com>]

Jim,
    I hear you, loud and clear. the main problem that you have right now is
that the
    "People that make decsions, shouldn't and people that buy software,
shouldn't."

    If the people that have to use the software had a choice, most would
choose a
    different software to work in.
    Sorry, I needed to sound off.
    Bob Fearon


"Hood, Jim" wrote:

> Just a comment on your first sentence, Charlie.  But first, some
> background on myself and Protel.  I worked for Protel in 93-94 as their
> manager of tech support.  I had to defend the product countless times in
> conversations with disgruntled users, prospective customers, inquiring
> minds at trade shows, and our counterparts working for other EDA
> software companies.  The perception then, and to many still, is that
> Protel wasn't/isn't a serious tool for professional use.  It's true,
> that at a point in time (Advanced PCB V.1 to V.2) the product wasn't
> very sophisticated, but by '94 and V. 2.5, it was starting to get pretty
> good.  In fact, we won the Benchmark contest at the '94 PCB Design
> conference for our price/platform division, beating products like PADS,
> OrCAD, and Tango.  They were so mad, PADS accused us of cheating, saying
> Protel didn't have the features the Benchmark judges confirmed that it
> did have.  We had a pretty good laugh over that one.  The point is, I
> agree with you that Protel is great for beginners, because it's
> user-friendly.  But I also think it's at least as good as any other
> software because it has an available high level of sophistication that
> allows users to do almost any kind of board.  Right now, I'm contracting
> at a company that's training me on PADS, and Protel can do anything PADS
> does, plus has FAR fewer limitations.  It's also much easier to learn,
> since PADS is NOT intuitive.  There are many things in PADS that are not
> apparent and can only be found if someone that knows the system tells
> you how to do it.  I call this the "PADS Secret Handshake".  Also,
> consider the fact that a full seat of PADS goes for about $35K.  They
> charge you for things that should be a part of the software, like being
> able to handle large files, complete DRC, among others.  Anyway, I'm
> kind of venting, since I'm under pressure to produce a board while
> trying to learn PADS,  which has some odd, flaky quirks.  But I hope I'm
> not coming across as being "emotionally attached" to Protel.  I tell
> people all the time, that no matter what software you use, remember -
>
> "It's just a tool".
>
> Thanks everyone for letting me vent (and maybe to let you know you've
> made a good choice in Protel).
>
> Jim Hood
> South Bay CAD
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jenkins, Charlie [SMTP:JENKINSC@PIOS.COM]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:52 AM
> > To:   Multiple recipients of list proteledausers
> > Subject:      RE: [PROTEL EDA USERS]:  Advice on Learning PCB Design
> >
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > Welcome to one of the best programs for the beginner. I hope I speak
> > for all
> > those that contribute to this list...feel free to ask any question on
> > this
> > list. If the response is wordy we will reply to you directly. Some of
> > us
> > (myself included) have contemplated publishing a book, paper or web
> > site
> > devoted to getting started.
> >
> > The first rule is everyone has different rules!  When you bought
> > Protel it
> > came with components and footprints.  The footprints may have been
> > laid out
> > according to some standards group like IEEE. Or they may have been
> > generated
> > based on an individual that had success with a particular footprint on
> > his
> > manufacturing process. In any case the goal is to produce artwork that
> > a
> > chosen PCB mfr. can reproduce in copper with quality, quantity and
> > economy.
> >
> > Someone else said it and I agree, start with a manufacturer that has
> > prepared a guide book for clients with suggestions for Design for
> > Manufacturing.  The guide book will give you a feel for what
> > capabilities
> > this manufacturer has and is comfortable with.  There should be
> > spacing
> > recomendations here as well as suggested pad layouts. It should
> > discuss
> > clearance issues between types of components, component skylines and
> > spacing
> > on boards.  These all have to do with making a board that is
> > compatible with
> > the manufacturer's automatic assembly equipment. They are also living
> > documents, changing to get the most out of new technologies and
> > equipment.
> >
> > I have one from Kodak. It is 3 inches thick.
> >
> > If you have other questions please shoot me an email.
> >
> > Charlie Jenkins
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:       Andy Lintz [SMTP:al@ppsystems.com]
> > > Sent:       Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers
> > > Subject:    [PROTEL EDA USERS]:  Advice on Learning PCB Design
> > >
> > > I am new to printed circuit board design (but have 20 years in
> > > systems/electronics engineering).
> > >
> > > Most of the questions in this newsgroup are of the type
> > > I-know-what-I-want-to-do, but-I-can't-get-Protel- to-do-it.  My
> > problem is
> > > that I don't know what I want to do.  How can I teach myself the
> > concepts,
> > > general practices, and common conventions of printed circuit board
> > design
> > > (besides sitting next to an experienced designer for several years)?
> >
> > >
> > > I have purchased a couple of books, but I didn't seem to pick the
> > right
> > > ones (who can tell from Amazon.com descriptions?)
> > >
> > > I understand Protel training is available, but I worry that it would
> > be
> > > more about how to get the software to do things rather than the
> > basics of
> > > pcb design.
> > >
> > > I have a brochure on some short courses associated with PCB Design
> > > Conference East in Sept, but I don't know if these are worth the
> > time (and
> > > $).
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any recommendations, or experiences on how they
> > learned
> > > pcb design?
> > >
> > > Andy Lintz
> > > PP Systems
> > > Development Engineer
> >
> >
> >
>