Interview with JOHNNY DEPP, done by CHIARA MASTROIANNI (actress and daughter of Marcello Mastroianni and Catherine Deneuve (?); aired on Canal + (France) in November 1998

In order to convey at least some of the relaxed mood of this interview here's a description of its setting: The view is into a fairly big lounge or sitting-room, equipped with several comfortable armchairs and a big sofa at the wall on the right. Johnny and Chiara are sitting on the carpeted floor, facing each other, leaning their backs against armchair and sofa seats. Both are sitting cross-legged, Johnny with an ashtray and a glass of wine next to him, both are happily smoking away...
Also, I typed out everything exactly the way he put it, so if you find ever so many 'em's or 'you know's, and '(hesitates)' that's to give you the real experience, as much as that's possible in a transcript. So, here goes:

Chiara (in a sweet, soft French accent and therefore occasionally strange phrasing): How does it feel to be away from home? Where IS your home? LA?
Johnny: Yeah, it's Los Angeles, that's where I - it's basically just a place where I keep all my stuff. But it's not - it's difficult to consider it home because I travel like a gipsy, you know, always on location...
Chiara: Do you think you chose LA or LA chose you, because the work was there?
Johnny (scratching his head): No, I chose LA when I was a kid, I was about twenty when I moved out there. At the time I was a musician, I was in a band, and we moved out because it was an easier place to get a record deal.
Chiara: Then LA chose you - in a way...
Johnny: Maybe...(sipping some wine).
Chiara: So now that you're doing the Polanski thing, it's like you're doing again an auteur film, it's the kind - I'm thinking of Polanski, Kusturica, people like that you like working with, it's the kind of cinema you feel closer to...
Johnny: Yeah, it's certainly - I feel closer to that kind of cinema than what is the normal kind of accepted formula that comes out of the machine of Hollywood. I'm not a big fan of formula, I'm not a big fan of anything like Titanic, you know.
Chiara: Big productions...
Johnny: Yeah, I find that all hideous.
Chiara: But I guess it's difficult, being an American actor, and with the status you have, to avoid that kind of cinema too, at some point, non?
Johnny: Well, in the business you have to maintain some sort of value, which is really terrible to say about a person, a guy who really is just trying to do his job, but you have to maintain a certain value in the industry you know. - You know, the films I've made, and make, are not huge box office bonanzas, so it's a kind of a miracle that I'm still around, in fact. I'm always shocked when I get another job.
Chiara: You are?
Johnny: Yeah, because you figure, it could go away so easily. - And if it does, it's alright. I did a few things...

Break: here short clips from each of his major movies are shown, starting with The Brave; voices are mute, the drums from the beginning of The Brave can be heard, accompanying the clips.

Johnny: Hollywood is really a big machine that churns out people as product and makes a shit lot of money on it. In a weird way, you know, the Oscars and stuff, it's like a kind of Junior High School and the prom, and who's gonna be named Prom Queen and Prom King and all that stuff, it's a popularity contest - I couldn't be less interested! (laughs, takes another sip from his glass)
Chiara: I guess they asked you many times, but I haven't read anything about it: at what moment - like, for example, when they ask me „at what moment did you want to become an actress?" it's very difficult for me to answer that question; I guess, I can say when I started, but I don't know when I wanted to become one, so...
Johnny (interrupting): Did you feel discouraged to become an actress, though, because of your parents? Or did it help? I mean...in terms of wanting it?
Chiara: Em, no, in terms of wanting it, no; I felt more discouraged in the beginning and mostly because I was raised by my mother, and she was very much against it for me to become an actress, so, in a way you know, if you're not carried - if you're not secure in yourself and you're not carried by some kind of background, family, you know, it's very difficult to make that decision. But I still did it, and I don't feel like a rebel to my family because I did it - it's nothing about that. I don't feel like a rebel to my family because I did it, it's nothing about that. But maybe I wish they had sustained me a little bit more on a personal point of view, but they didn't stop me from doing it; you know, like saying we hope for you a more stable job, be a lawyer, be an archeologist, or whatever, do something serious...
Johnny: (laughing) something serious, yeah...
Chiara: (also laughing) Yes, what is serious today, you know?

Here some clips from French movies with Chiara are shown.

Chiara: Did - like your family, does it have any importance to you what they thought?
Johnny: My family was very - I mean they were shocked when called I - I mean, 'cause I was a musician for years and years and...
Chiara: (interrupting) and what happened?
Johnny: Some kind of fluke, some sort of mistake, you know... sort of stepping in dog shit (Chiara laughs) and I stepped in it. You know, I called them up and said this guy wants me to do this movie and , em, they were shocked, and I said, yeah, they're gonna pay me this much money for a week! It was a ridiculous amount, you know. 'Cause at the time, you know, I think I was selling ink pens over the telephone, I was making $30 a week or something ludicrous, you know, so it was shocking.
Chiara: So, would you say that what attracted you in the first place was (Johnny, in between: ...the job) the thing that it looked like easy money, or...
Johnny: Yeah, I just mean, I didn't decide to become an actor until I'd done probably two or three films.
Chiara: Yeah, exactly, in a way I felt a little bit the same; I felt like how can you know before you've ever done it, that you will like it. Well, you can have a certain idea of it, but until you really try and find yourself on a set, you don't know if that's something for you or that you might like to do for many years, but do you see yourself like an actor, I mean, do you see yourself like in 20 years from now, or 15 years...
Johnny: (interrupting) still plugging away at this game? (laughs; then, with conviction) No - no, I can't. I mean, it wouldn't be bad , I wouldn't mind it, it would be great to sustain a job, I can't - I don't like calling it a career, you know, but... to be able to keep a job that long, sure, that would be great; but (hesitates) I don't know, maybe... Maybe there's something else to do, you know, maybe I don't know what I'm gonna do when I grow up yet, you know... (Chiara laughs) ... not sure. I think it was Brando that said - there's a great quote - I'm pretty sure it was Brando that said, asked to describe acting or something, and he said (affecting Brando's voice) ' It's a strange job for a grown man'. I thought that was so perfect, such a great definition of it.

Here comes a short clip from The Brave with Brando.

Chiara: Hm, sometimes, has it happened that you throw yourself into a film without really working on the character before, or...?
Johnny: I think... maybe it's just a habit for me, it's like - but you wanna have some kind of history for the guy, you know, you wanna know where he's been, you know.
Chiara: So what history did you have for Edward Scissorhands?
Johnny: Scissorhands? Scissorhands for me was - when I read the script it was... it was like a - I kept getting images of dogs that I'd had as a kid, you know.
Chiara: Why?
Johnny: Because there was something, because of the... you know, how - how I felt for that dog and the way that dog would look at me, this unconditional love, and it didn't matter, you scolded the dog and it went away, freaked out, and the minute you'd say come here, it'd come back, you know, totally pure and full of love and... babies, you know, children, like my nieces, you know, when they were born, I remember how new everything was to them. - But that was a weird one, you know, 'cause Tim, at the time, you know, I didn't know Tim very well, it was our first film together; we - oh, he rehearsed everyone, you know, he rehearsed everybody, you know, the whole cast, except me. He didn't rehearse me...
Chiara: Why not?
Johnny: I think it was a very very smart move on his part, in fact, I didn't know it at the time, but - but I sort of - I get a sneaking suspicion that this is what he was doing... I think he was trying to keep me separate from everyone, to isolate me, to give me a feeling of...
Chiara: Loneliness?
Johnny: Loneliness, yes, to be alone and excluded from the... the party, and it was a very good thing to do em, it was good for me, it was good for the film. He rehearsed everyone, but he had no idea what I was gonna do. You know, the first day I walked on the set, you know, strapped up in this leather, you know, and my hair sticking up about three feet, and in - in virtual white face, you know, he had no idea what the character was gonna talk like or move like, or anything. And that was a scary moment - (they both laugh) a scary moment. Same thing with Ed Wood; he didn't know - until he said 'action' the first day...
Chiara: And you didn't rehearse for Ed Wood?
Johnny: No, we had a walk through the day before we started shooting, which was crazy, which just consisted of saying, you know, it'd be good if you stood here, and what d'you feel like then, we just walked, we didn't do any dialogue. But he had, I imagine, a vague idea; not really until he said action and then cut, you know. It's always, those - it's the first take, you know, you remember that first 'cut' really well, the action you don't remember, but that 'cut' you remember because there's complete silence again. And then, in your head, you're going, OK, now you've fucked up bad, you know. (They laugh)

Short clips from Ed Wood.

Johnny: Tim - Tim is a very - he's a mysterious guy, he's really elusive, you know, one minute, you know, you're talkin to him, and then you sort of look at the light over here, and then he's gone and you don't see him for a year. But when I do see him, when we do get together, it's just like we've - it's just a continuation of before.
Chiara: I've read that you're going to work with him again soon, non?
Johnny: Yeah - yeah, we're gonna do The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, sort of an old American story, you know, the guy with - the Headless Horseman, no head, and he comes into town and chops people's heads off.
Chiara: So it's a freaky movie?
Johnny: Scary, it's a scary movie.

Short clips from Arizona Dream.

Chiara: I was wondering - it's a pity, what happened? How come Arizona Dream was not released in so many years in the States?
Johnny: Because it didn't fit their idea...
Chiara (interrupting): It's a good sign of their mentality but...
Johnny: I don't know. They didn't - you know what happened with - we did Arizona Dream in (thinks) 1991 we shot it. I did that right after Scissorhands, a few months after Scissorhands, and... it wasn't released until '94 or '95, and they released it in, I think, three theaters across the US.
Chiara: Like a European film.
Johnny: Yeah, basically. They just had - it was Warner Bros. who was distributing the film, and they just didn't find it (hesitates) ...
Chiara: Commercial enough?
Johnny: Certainly not commercial enough, but they didn't find it interesting. They didn't care about the story, they didn't care about the shots, they didn't care about how beautiful the cinematography was, or the poetry of Kusturica's ideas, I think they didn't give a damn.

Short clip from Arizona Dream

Johnny: That was such a great experience working with him - because it wasn't like... it wasn't like work, first of all, it was just this, em, kind of long drawn out creative collaborative effort. You know, he's a guy you can go to - I went to him in the scene where I'm seducing, em Faye Dunaway; it's right before we make love for the first time, and I'm supposed to seduce her and I - it wasn't in the script, you know, but I saw this guy as a kind of rooster, you know, becoming a rooster, you know, so I went to Emir and said, hey, you know, I think that maybe he should make some 'cluck' , like a chicken, and he said (affecting Kusturica's voice and accent) 'Dis is good idea, yes, let's trry'. And boom, it was there, you know. But there's no other director I like that - there's no - there's no other - I've never had that kind of freedom. That's ... that's very very rare. So I - yeah, anything...
Chiara (interrupting): You have to find a way to have an idea and... and convince, in a tricky way, convince the director that the idea comes from him. Sometimes it's a... (Johnny, in between: Yeah, you can do that but...)
Chiara: ...it's complicated, it takes energy, but sometimes it's the only way to get your won ideas on the screen.
Johnny: Yeah, I mean, there's that kind of manipulation, but, I mean, to go to a guy and say I wanna cluck like a chicken and...
(Chiara: ...and the guy says yes)
Johnny: ...yes - that's pretty rare. Well, I mean, if he'd say I'd like to try something, no matter how far out it is, he's fine with it! And Gilliam, Terry Gilliam. Gilliam was even - he would bring things to me and say 'Why don't we try this?' and it was so sick! Such an insane idea! You know, you feed off one another, and you feed each other...
Chiara (interrupting): But in a way you got very lucky to have - I mean - to have such good relationships with those directors and... I guess it makes you more, hm, exigeant? You know exigeant? Hm, more demanding on a relationship with other directors when you have such a good experience with some-one, non?
Johnny: Yeah, it definitely makes it hard to go to work with other guys, for sure. Because you're used to a certain, hm, well, a relationship which is collaborative and not every director is collaborative. They don't always want to - it's strange, because, I mean, you have this sort of history of characters you've done, I've played and stuff, I'm not a very good puppet, you know, and I like to bring things to the project, ideas and stuff. And when a guy hires you and he doesn't want you to do that stuff and you wonder, well, why did he hire me? Why did he want me for the job? He should have given it to somebody who could be a good puppet, you know.

Clip from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

Chiara: What about someone that you absolutely don't know, would you read the script first or meet the person first or...?
Johnny: I'd read the script first - just to have some kind of idea that they... you know, what they wanna do.
Chiara: Yes, because it can be tricky sometimes - I know, one time I accepted to meet the person first then I read the script, and I liked the person, and I almost engaged myself to the project, and then, when I read the script it was very difficult for me to back up because I didn't like the script, and I think it's very tricky sometimes to talk to the person - there can be something very seductive and interesting about that meeting, and then you end up not liking it, so...
Johnny: Also people can..., you know - when you meet the person - I mean, after you - even if you've read the script and you... you like the script, meet the person, he can sing a very big song, you know. He can talk all kinds of circles around you and make you think that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and, suddenly, you get on the set and - a monster, you know, a monster, or like, inept or, hm, you know.
Chiara: Has it ever happened to you to find yourself in that situation?
Johnny: You bet! Absolutely. I - I got into a situation - 'cause a great great screenplay, beautiful screenplay, really, I mean, profound, some of the dialogue, some of the things that were in it were - sections of the dialogue were profound, beautiful, poetry, you know, and we went on the set with the guy and - he believes that he's a master manipulator, but he's crap, you can see right through it.
Chiara: And then what happens?
Johnny: And he was a first-time guy, he was a first-time director, which is fine - I... I support that, you know, but he was one of those guys who would not - he refused to admit that he didn't know what he was doing, you know, and he wouldn't take advice from people, you see, he just forged ahead and it was a really awful...
Chiara (interrupting): But then, in that case, how do you motivate yourself, because it takes like two months, three months of shooting it, if you find out...
Johnny: Rum. Rum, (she laughs) , rum will motivate you at that point. No, it was - I mean, we hit a point in that film where I actually had... had to tell the guy, hey, don't... you can say action, and cut, and print, if you like, but don't say anything else to me because I wanna kill you, you know, I'd really like to have my hands around your throat - so he... he didn't bother me any more, just stayed away. He said action, cut, print - wrap, and that was it.
Chiara: And so, so - how did you arrive with the idea - how did you come up to the idea of directing? Did it come from a kind of... I don't know, the lack of good projects that other people would bring to you, than you want to...you end up thinking, well, maybe if, you know, I can bring one idea to the end and direct it and all, or...?
Johnny: The only true reason why I wanted to direct The Brave was because I was too inarticulate to tell another director what I wanted, you know. What I wanted it to look like, or be like, or what the pace should be like, or what the rhythm should be like, or what it should feel like, you know. Just because I couldn't express that, you know.
Chiara: And the fact that directing for the first time and acting in it didn't scare you?
Johnny: It didn't scare me, and I was ignorant, you know. It didn't scare me at all...
Chiara (interrupting): If you had to do it again, would you act in it?
Johnny: No!
Chiara: 'Cause I guess it takes a lot of schizophrenia to be able to...
Johnny: Yeah. There were two opposing things, you know. To be an actor, in some sense, you have to be out of control and unaware of what's going on around you because you wanna stay inside. And to be a director you have to be completely and totally aware of ... of everything that's happening on the set. So you're constantly smashing...smashing your head against a wall. Hm, yeah, you know, if I had to do it over again I would never ever act in it. I had no idea it was gonna be that much pressure - that exhausting.

Clip from The Brave.

Chiara: The statement that people do about you is, like, you're a savage, and you want to be on your own and all. You know, and they always stick you with the image of the rebel and stuff, and... but in a way, I thought that's a very good thing because if that's the image they stick on you they'll leave you in peace, you know, in a way.
Johnny: But I mean, they stick you with those names, those labels, rebel or... whatever, whatever they like to use, because they can't - because they need a label, they need a name, they need something to put the prize tag on the back of , or, you know, they need to call you something, you know. They don't know a thing about me, they know absolutely nothing about me. There's a great quote, I think it was Jean Cocteau who wrote it - he wrote it or said it that „the more visible you make me the more invisible I become". And it's so true - it's so true because they have no idea. But they need to call the product something so... that's what you are.
Chiara: And are there some films, that's what I've been wondering, too, that you turned down and then you regretted it?
Johnny: No... there's never been anything I've - that I... that I turned down and I've regretted. No. And yet it's nice to be able ... to have done something in your life that you can leave behind, you know. You can give it to your kids or grandkids and whatever, and they can... be semi-proud, you know.
Chiara (interrupting): So you see, you project yourself, in a kind of future...
Johnny: I don't... I wouldn't say that I have ambition or ... (but I have hopes and dreams.)
Chiara: No, no, I don't mean in a kind of career point of view, but in a longevity point of view.
Johnny: Yeah. Yeah, I like the idea of kind of sticking around for a while. But to give something to your kids, or grandkids, or whatever, that, for a period of time they can say 'he didn't compromise at all, he did what he wanted to do.' Yeah... perfected.

Break. Cut.
(Ctd. on The Brave)

Johnny: The only reason that I directed it, in fact, is because I - it was a... it was a script that already existed, that I didn't like, based on a book that I'd never read.
Chiara: So that's a hard beginning.
Johnny: Right. So - but the script that I didn't like had something in it that I - that inspired ideas in my head. So I took those ideas and I tried - I put them down on paper, with my brother, and wrote the script.
Chiara: Well, because it was a big beginning, also the fact that you direct the first thing, alright, and suddenly you arrive and the thing is presented in Cannes, which is - it's tough.
Johnny: Oh yeah. I've never felt anything quite like that before... It's like you're walking into battle, you know, that's what it was like. I've walked up the steps before, you know, the carpet or whatever, as an actor. But you walk up as a filmmaker, you know, you're so... you're so exposed... I mean, you're so exposed and you feel that there's at least two or three snipers in trees somewhere, that gonna take a pot shot at you and get you. That's kind of what it felt like.
Chiara: But you was talking about the critics and saying if I can steal a little bit of their time, but do you pay a lot of attention to...?
Johnny: No, not normally. I mean, I don't really read reviews and stuff. On The Brave - it was such a..such an attack, such a vicious, vindictive move for my throat, you know, and parts below, you know. They really went for me, all out, so it was kind of difficult to avoid, you know...
Chiara (interrupting): Maybe if you hadn't been where you are they wouldn't have had - it's like something was decided before they had seen the film?
Johnny: Oh without question, yeah. Well, they didn't want - I mean, first of all, you're an actor, that is what you are as a product. If you try to do anything else, outside that, if you try to express yourself in another way they want to chop you up, and for me it was kind of... kind of - I...I definitely felt they'd written the review before they saw the film. - They don't want you to think, they don't want you to be able to think, they don't want to even begin to think that you might have some semblance of a brain. I mean, some sheds of creativity inside you. They don't want that. They... they prefer a puppet.

Clip from The Brave (?)

Chiara: Do you want to direct again?
Johnny: I'd like to - I'd like to make another film, yeah. I found a couple of things that I'm interested in, and... yeah, I'd like to do it again. It would be good just to piss the critics off, you know, I'd like to do it just for that. Just to be able to steal a few hours from their life was worth it for me.
Chiara: Did you have... another project of - about the Dostoyewski book with Emir?
Johnny: Yeah, we still talk about it, talk about doing 'Crime and Punishment' and... but doing a different version, you know, sort of taking it and stretching it out a little bit, a slower version of Razkolnikov. Yeah, we still talk about it.
Chiara: Who brought up the idea? Did you bring in the idea of adapting the book, or was it his idea?
Johnny: No, it was him. It was when we were doing Arizona Dream. At the time I was reading 'Notes from the Underground', and - which was hilarious, you know - and I'd bring these passages and read to him, and we'd just laugh like children, you know, and... he said that he had a project, you know, which was, sort of, in pre-pre-production; it was Crime and Punishment, and he had a couple of actors set to it, and he came to me and he said, I changed my mind, I don't want them now, I want you to do it, so of course, I instantly said yes, you know. I mean, if Kusturica wanted to film the edge of that bookshelf, you know, and my hand come in and out of the frame for 9 months, you know, I'd do it.
Chiara: Why, at some point, some actors have to compromise themself? I guess it's because of money or... well, very often it's because of money. Many actors do a film and then they trash it when the film comes out and then they say 'well, it was because of money'.
Johnny: I haven't heard many actors say 'I did it for the money' - [Chiara: oh, yeah?] no, no... when they're gettin in those press junkets and then start doing interviews, I mean, everybody... everybody - it's a festival of lies! [ Chiara: Yeah, of course...] Lies, it's all lies. You can never say what you want to say, it's impossible.
Chiara: Yeah. And also, you know, though it's funny, I think, if you do something for the money reason, I'd rather do a commercial, because then the message is very clear. You don't do a commercial because it's artistic, you do it for the money. But it's funny, you know, even on that kind of thing, some of the actors still stand up for a commercial. I've heard an actor say: 'No, no, the director was really good, and the product, I really like that product, you know.
Johnny: If we're together and you see those guys, point them out to me, 'cause I want to stay really - really want to stay away from them. - No, nobody ever says that 'I did it for the money, what the hell'... But money, you know, money is a necessary evil, it's freedom, and in our case, because we have... because people know who we are, money buys simplicity, you know. It's very expensive to live simply and quietly and on your own. Yes, so money is necessary. I'd love to do a commercial. Especially a Japanese one. I'd sell anything, air-conditioning, Tampax, anything, I don't care.
Chiara: I'm surprised they never asked you.
Johnny: Well, they asked me to do one, but I couldn't. In fact, I was asked to... this was great - I got an offer to do a shampoo commercial, right? [Chiara: in Japan?] I can't remember where it was, but it was a lot of money. They offered me this shampoo commercial. At the time I was doing Fear and Loathing and I was completely bald! [Chiara: that is funny.] They did... So my agent calls me and says, 'listen, you've been offered this commercial, it's a ton of money, it's only going to show in this one country (I can't remember where it was), it's for shampoo'. And I said 'Tracey, I'm bald! I'm bald, I can't even...' That was a funny situation. ... I mean, I could do it now, though... what the fuck.
Chiara: You were lucky. I mean, I don't know if you can call that luck, but starting from this thing on television, that is a remarking, you know, in a way, and to be able to totally erase - it's something that in France would never ... could never happen.
Johnny: It didn't happen much in America at that time, you know. I was one of the few lucky ones who got out, you know. I was able to make the... make the jump, you know, from television into film. Television was, phew, like jail, prison. Maybe it's different now, but then it was - you just felt like a... felt like a cookie on a conveyor-belt, you know: bang, they stamp the thing, and bang, they stamp it - I just felt like one of those. Awful. I'd rather pump gas again. Or work construction again.

Clip from Cry Baby

Chiara: So, do you regret music? Do you regret - because your first thing was - you had a - your first thing was music, before acting. So...
Johnny: Yeah, but it's still my first love.
Chiara: But did you feel more free as a musician?
Johnny: As a musician? Well, yeah, I did... I did feel more free, I'd say, as a musician, because it's immediate, you know. That emotion and expressing that emotion is immediate. If you're a guitar player it goes straight from your body into the strings and out of the... amplifier, or whatever. Yeah, music is immediate. So I still play, I still play as much as I used to - for it's my first love.
Chiara: You play just for yourself?
Johnny: Oh yeah, that's what it always was, I mean, the fact that I was able to make money out of it as a kid, growing up, made a living as a musician, was terrific, but it was my passion. Always was.
Chiara: What happens when you don't work? [Johnny: What happens when you don't...?] What do you do with yourself?
Johnny: Escape - travel - run away... yeah, go places. Read - play guitar - sleep (lights a cigarette) Sleeping is my favourite hobby. It's what I'm best at... I'm very good at that. .... Was that ok? What happened? (laughing) What happened?

End of interview - they laugh and hug while Johnny congratulates her on her (interview) job.

Transcript by Mitch, proof-read by Irene.

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