Programme No: 2157
Transmission: 11 May 1998
Segment 2: Terry Gilliam and Johnny Depp discuss 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas'
Running time: 20 minutes
Transcript by: Irene

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CR [to camera]: For more than 25 years, filmmakers have been trying to make the movie of Hunter S Thompson's 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas'. Actor Johnny Depp and director Terry Gilliam have succeeded. Here is a trailer from the film.

Full trailer of FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS. Raoul Duke: "They want me to go to Las Vegas at once." Dr Gonzo: "As your attorney I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top...."

CR [to camera]: Depp - known for taking projects with distinctive filmmakers: Tim Burton's 'Edward Scissorhands' and 'Ed Wood'; Jim Jarmusch's 'Dead Man'; and John Waters' 'Cry Baby' - got the chance to work with yet another in Terry Gilliam. The former member of 'Monty Python' had directed such films as 'Brazil', 'The Fisher King' and 'Twelve Monkeys'. I'm pleased to have Johnny Depp and Terry Gilliam on this programme.

CR [addressing them both]: Welcome. Great to have you. Ah... How is it that the two of you got together at long last on this film? Not the fact that you two came together, but that you got to direct this film, and you got to do this film? Because everybody's been trying to do it for, what, 25 years? [turning to TG] Jack Nicholson had an option on it at one time --

TG: Scorcese was involved in it... Mmm, yeah... Larry McMurtry wrote the first script --

CR: Is that right??

TG: Yeah, yeah -- which I've never read!

CR: Really?

TG: Yeah, yeah. No, I think it took another director, Alex Cox, to do it. [TG glances conspiritorially at JD and they both burst out laughing]

CR: What happened with Alex Cox?

TG [still laughing]: It's actually the truth! He was involved; he was brought in to do it. He wrote a script; Johnny joined in; Benicio del Toro joined in. And then Alex managed to alienate everybody and he was... joined out!

CR: He was gone. And the idea for you came from...?

TG: I don't know. [looking towards JD] Was it...? Were you involved in this one?

JD: We've...er... Tracey Jacobs and I sat talking about, y'know, possible guys and we thought: "Oh, my god, let's try Gilliam!", you know? But it was such a long shot, y'know? I just thought, well, he's working on something --

CR: A long shot that you could GET him, or a long shot that anybody... that the studios would BUY him? [CR and TG start laughing]

JD: Oh, no, no! [laughing] -- No, the long shot was that any studio would buy ME! [CR and TG laugh] No... That we would be able to get him. I just figured that he was... unavailable, working on something...

TG: But suddenly I became available, because the 'something I was working on' fell on its face! And then this script turned up!

CR: That's Hollywood.

TG: Yeah, it's typical: it just happens when you least expect it. And this thing turned up and I read it and I didn't like it. [JD waves away his cigarette smoke] But it brought back old memories of the book. And so I came out, met Johnny, Benicio, Hunter... and said we'll go back and we'll try writing a script and see if we can do it. And so we just leapt in and it was great, because we had to work incredibly fast. I mean, from beginning to end, as far as my involvement, it's been a year. From, you know, starting writing a script, shooting the thing, editing it, and then, er, selling it.

CR [turning to JD]: Did you want to do this because you liked the script [laughs], because you liked the book, or because the idea of doing and telling Hunter's story was rather intriguing?

JD: Well, this has been one of my favourite books since I was a kid. I mean, I remember reading this at 17 and just, you know, cackling like a banshee. [smiling] And loving it! I love it! And then, y'know, going on to read the majority of Hunter's writings. So, when the idea came to me to do it as a film, I was...er...Well, sure, I was going to jump at the chance.

CR: Roll tape. [to camera] Here it is. "How about some ether?" This is a clip in which Depp and del Toro [laughing] pick up a hitchhiker on their way to Vegas. Here it is.

FILM CLIP from F&L: Raoul Duke: "I want you to understand that this man at the wheel is my attorney. He's not just some dingbat that I found on the Strip, man...."

CR [to JD]: The voice! You've GOT the voice!

JD: I worked like a bastard. I mean, I worked and worked and watched him like a hawk. I spent the better part of four months with him.

CR: Just hanging out?

JD: Just hanging out and, er... studying his habits, y'know? [CR starts laughing] I even went on the road with him. I became his road manager. His head of security.

CR: Oh, that's right: you were with him when he was doing --

JD [nodding]: His book tour, yes.

CR: -- his book tour?

JD: Yeah...

CR: Head of Security was your role?

JD: My name was Ray, yeah. [laughs]

CR [laughing]: Were you here when he came here? Do you remember that?

JD: Yes.

CR: You were here? [laughing incredulously] Is that right??

JD [smiling]: I was here.

CR: And he went peering... I remember the first thing he wanted was: Did we have Chevas in the Green Room. [laughing]

JD [nodding in remembrance]: Bottle of Chevas...

CR: Bottle of Chevas in the Green Room!!

JD [smiling]: ...Big bucket of ice...

CR: And we said "No", and he showed up nevertheless... Umm, tell me about him: how you approached this. You hang out with him; you get a chance to see him... What is it that's so appealing about him, as a character and as a writer?

JD: What's appealing about him as a MAN is that he's... I think he's one of the most important writers of the century. I mean, I think he's one of the greatest writers we've ever seen in this country. Umm... that's on THAT level. And then when you get to KNOW him, you get to sort of spend time around him; be privy to his life... He's a fascinating, FASCINATING man. I think one of the things a lot of people don't realise about Hunter is that he's sort of a... They expect this mad man! Which is, y'know... Certainly there's a part of that - but he's really a GREAT...um...'Southern gentleman' really, you know?

CR: Yeah, I think they do expect something different than the way he IS when you sit at the table and have a conversation with him... [Turning to TG] Is it a hard movie to make, though? To translate 'Fear and Loathing' into a film?

TG: It was hard in the sense that, y'know, there was a whole nation of readers out there that, you know, had grown up with that book; who have it in their head what it could or should be. And there's Hunter, who's floating around somewhere...

CR: Still alive and well!

TG [laughing]: Alive and well with a gun! So it's basically a terrible responsibility... I've been smart in the past avoiding this; trying to do things like this. But once I got interested: No - let's go! Because I really felt it was time for this thing to be re-introduced on another level to the nation. And Tony Grizoni and I - who wrote the screenplay - we just dived in, worked really fast. We tried to make the film - the writing, and the preparation, and the shooting - as fast as possible, so there was no time to look back and realise... and realise all the bits we WEREN'T getting in. [smiling] Because that's the problem: the book is so dense and rich, and you're bound to leave things behind. So the trick was to try to get the ESSENCE of the book,and the spirit of the book in every way, er... in everything we were doing. So we worked very fast and very hard. And there was a MADNESS afoot there, and I think it somehow has translated onto the celluloid.

CR: You put the script together how fast?

TG: Ahhh - eight days. [CR laughs uproariously] And we were proud ---

CR: That's how long it used to take! This is a script... Probably some variation of script has been hanging around for 20 years! And this one was eight days in the making?!

TG: It was, well, eight days. We worked like mad, like madmen at my computer, working day and night - ttttrrzzzzz! [mimes the manic typing] and Ah! Finished! We said "Dah! We've done it!" We went our separate ways with hard copies; we sat down calmly at our homes; read it; and realised it was crap! [Everyone laughs] And so we ran back together next morning and spent two days fixing it! And then we spent the rest of the film fixing it; and [gesturing towards JD] working with Johnny ad-libbing... Everybody worked; everybody added to this thing. [miming] It just kept growing in a rather organic way.

CR [to camera]: Take a look at this. Another clip from 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas'.

FILM CLIP from F&L: At the restuarant. Waiter to Raoul: " Perhaps this is the call you've been waiting for all this time, sir..."

CR [to TG]: You said there's a little edit there?

TG: Yeah, there's a little... there's a word that's been taken out; a word that is very important in the book. It's... The word is 'cocaine'. It's the fuel for the trip. I mean, there's no good going on the road if you've got a car with an empty gas tank. [JD and TG laugh] And I'm afraid [laughing] that's what the word was that was cut out!

CR: What's the controversy about the film, in terms of you can't get your commercials on certain places?

TG: Well, it's extraordinary! We just... Last week we were told by ABC-TV that the commercials - which have been approved by the MPAA which is a very conservative, respected organisation - they can't be shown on ABC at late night, because they have decided the book --

CR: Daytime's OK, but -- [Everyone laughing]

JD: Saturday morning, yeah...

TG: Exactly! Children's television; Saturday morning it's going on! But... but they won't go on because they say the book is a 'pro-drug' book. WHICH IT IS NOT. And they're saying that if the film in fact reflects the book then, y'know, we can't do this. Number One: Why would you not make a film that reflected the book? But the worst thing is: it can't be shown because it's 'politically incorrect'. That's the hypocrisy of the thing. It worries me because it's that kind of censorship which is one of the things we used to fight very hard against. And one feels it's creeping back in. I don't know how much that has to do with 'Mouse', y'know, owning ABC and things like that, but it's very worrisome.

CR: I can't imagine that goes up to the top of the 'Mouse' tree...

TG: I don't know either. But what is frightening is that they sit there saying it's a "pro-drug book", and it's NOT a pro-drug book - it's not about that. I mean, it may be the fuel of the trip, but it's not what it's about. It's a serious and very funny book about, y'know, the times. And how you confront the times, when the times are going mad.

CR: Roll tape. I want to take a look at this. [to camera] This is Hunter S Thompson on this show [laughing] when Johnny Depp was part of his security team and they came here. So... 6-13-97. Roll tape.

FILM CLIP of HST talking to CR: The important lesson I was trying to learn early was that, since I was this desperate, and this kind of...er...sick, y'know, and very limited qualifications for anything else....

CR [to JD]: I mean, I know this is an actor's craft, but you... It's DEAD ON, the impersonation of him.

JD: Well, thank you very much.

CR: Well, but - You know... How do you go about that??

JD: First you've got to get his blessing [smiling] ...which is not an easy thing to get! I had to... Yeah, that was very important, initially. Just that I wanted to make sure that Hunter was happy with the idea that I would be playing him. Maybe there was... I don't know, maybe there was another actor he wanted, so I would have sort of... you know, taken a walk and let the other actor do it, if that's what Hunter wanted. But he... I said: "Do you want me to do it?" and he said: "Yes, absolutely, you're the guy. I want you there."

CR [laughing]: He's not stupid, is he? [TG starts laughing] Was he warned?

JD: Which was...er... No, I was shocked. And, er, it was at that moment that I told him. I said: "Listen, if I do an even remotely accurate portrayal of you, you're going to hate me for the rest of your life probably." [laughs] And luckily, we're OK. He's seen it and he's OK.

CR: What does he say about it?

JD: He had the most beautiful line... It was - he said: "It's an eerie trumpet-call over a lost battlefield." Which I thought was so beautiful.

CR: Wow! That's a powerful image!

JD: It's so beautiful.

TG: That's wonderful. I mean, that's what I find with his words. They summon up images very quickly and very fast and... Yeah, that's beautiful! And it's very... It's so pleasing, and a great RELIEF that he likes it... But, I mean, it was a STRANGE project, because we were worried all the time that we wanted to please Hunter, and I found working on it you could never... Do we go this direction? Do we do that? Do I do what my instincts tell me? Hunter is still watching, and you want to be so true to it! And I think the fact that we've somehow at least pleased him, and I've been told by other people they seem to think we've captured the book on the screen. That's fantastic.

CR: But YOU did not want him anywhere around when you were filming.

TG [laughing]: Of course not, of course not!! The man's a nightmare! [Everyone laughing] I mean --

CR: Because you said it would disrupt the entire thing!

TG: Yeah. Because he's a wonderful force of chaos when he's outside of the protection of his home, which is a very pleasant place to be, but --

JD: Everybody felt a deep sense of responsibility. You know, we were very, very true to the book, and true to... y'know... In ways that other people wouldn't have been. [JD smiles and TG starts laughing] Certainly not... So, I mean: to have him around all the time...! It would have made HIM crazy; it would have made Terry crazy --

CR [to TG]: He knew of your commitment to...

TG [nodding]: Yeah, that's right. You can't be pedantic about making this book. I mean, that's the... If you're trying to please somebody all of the time, it's going to constrict you, so you just absorb it and try to be as truthful... And then you run!

CR: And you also had more reason to trust your actor in this case because he'd spent all the time --

TG: Yes, because he had stolen Hunter's soul! [CR laughs] He WAS Hunter! Hunter was probably just laying down somewhere resting [everyone laughing] 'til it was all over and then he could have his essence back!!

CR [laughing]: "Here's my soul. Go be me! Check back in later."

JD [smiling]: It was frightening.

CR: It was frightening?

JD [nodding]: It was frightening.

CR: Did he ever talk about that with you?

JD: Erm, yeah... He used to call me 'the termite in the basement', you know. [smiling] "God, if I'd realised what the termite in the basement was up to - that he was stealing bits of my personality! - I would have thought twice!" [Everyone laughing]

TG: It was quite wonderful. [looking across at JD] Because every time that Johnny would return from spending time with Hunter, he'd have more of his clothing! And eventually he came down from Aspen driving his car!! Which actually is in the film: the red Shark in the film is actually Hunter's car. So it's quite...it's quite extraordinary...! I mean, Hunter was going along with us. He loved the idea.

JD: He was great. He was very supportive, very generous.

CR [to TG]: This is the movie you wanted to make.

TG [looking puzzled]: You mean, the final...?

CR: What I mean... In other words, you got on screen, on film, what you wanted to put on film.

TG: Oh, yeah, no question about it.

CR: No question that this is the story you wanted to tell?

TG: Oh, yeah yeah. [pause] I'm not sure of the movie! [everyone laughing] But we got the book up there! That's the important thing! We were true to that! Which... And that was really the way one was working. That's what was both exciting and worrisome. It wasn't so much "Are we going to make, y'know, a 'commercial' movie?"; it's "CAN we translate this book, that everybody says CAN'T be made into a film, into a film?"

CR: You've clearly done that.

TG: Yeah.

CR [turning to JD]: When you look at the films that you have done, is any character more 'you' than anyone else?

JD: More me...?

CR: Is Edward Scissorhands more 'you' in terms of attitude, in terms of...

JD: I'd say, in terms of the way I feel about a lot of things, I'd say probably Scissorhands.

CR: Yeah... Why is that? What is it about Scissorhands?

JD: I think there's a great... When I was playing that character - when I was doing Scissorhands - I remember getting down to the wire, and we were just about to finish the film. And I was starting to MISS the character. And I couldn't understand WHY, because most times when you're doing a film, you just CAN'T WAIT to finish! You just want to go on vacation somewhere and, you know, be horizontal. Umm... But I think there was a great deal of safety in being that open, you know? In dropping all the sort of cynical views on things, or jaded outlook on things. Just being open, and ready for anything. That was sort of.... That's what I liked about him most.

CR: What's next for you?

JD: Umm... [pauses] ...After I'm audited and sent out of the country for doing this film?

CR [burst out laughing]: Yes! And after you're condemned for promoting drug abuse in America!

JD [smiling]: Right! ...I'm doing a film called 'The Ninth Gate' with Roman Polanski.

CR: Oh, that's what I thought.

JD: We start in June.

CR: I assume you're shooting in Paris or somewhere?

JD: Yeah. Paris... and Spain, I think.

CR: What's the story?

JD: It's based on the Reverte novel 'The Club Dumas'. Very complicated story but very... It's classic Polanski. Classic! Thriller, y'know?

CR: At least part of your work in life is you get to work with interesting people. Polanski, Terry, Burton... I mean, you know --

JD: Oh, yeah, I've been blessed. I mean: Jarmusch. Kusturica.

CR: Exactly!

JD: Yeah!

CR [pause]: Thank you for coming.

JD [smiling]: Thank you.

CR: We're going to do another programme together sometime soon, I hope --

JD: Absolutely.

CR: -- very much.

JD: I'll give you my number.

CR [laughing]: Alright! Great! [CR & JD shake hands]

CR [still laughing & turning to TG]: Thank you Terry. [CR & TG shake hands] Much success.

CR [to camera]: 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas'. It opens...? [checking with TG]

TG: 22nd of this month.

CR: ...22nd of May.

TG: The only film out that weekend.

CR: Good for you. [to camera] Go see it!

JD: The only one to see!

CR [laughing]: We'll be right back. Stay with us.

FILM CLIP: short trailer for FEAR & LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS

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