Award nominated writer and Winona Ryder biographer Nigel Goodall's long-awaited, but now published Winona follow-up is the most detailed and researched work on Johnny Depp ever published. Here he talks to Vicki McKay about how the book came about, how it differs to Winona and how he views the whole Johnny and Winona thing (which we knew already!)

Vicki: I suppose the most logical place to start is why a book on Johnny? Was it because you had already written your book on Winona?

Nigel: It was actually commissioned before I had finished writing Winona, and I think everyone at Blake Publishing just thought it would be an appropriate follow-up. I'm sure there are going to be some people who think I did it because it was just another chance for me to write about Winona, and that's true to certain extent, because anybody who knows me, knows I'm such a fan. But what really interested me about doing Johnny's book as much as Winona's was that both their careers are as bright as each other's. They never sacrifice their beliefs just to earn more money or to win acclaim. They do what interests them rather than what looks like just another step on the Hollywood chessboard. They never seem to worry about their careers and never sell-out their beliefs - and that's what makes them interesting to write about. They both break with Hollywood tradition in the choices they make, and I think it's because of those choices that they have established themselves as the two most significant actors of their generation.

Vicki: What movie was Johnny making while you were writing the book?

Nigel: By the time my writing got started, Johnny was in the UK filming Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow. And that was kind of a blessing in disguise because it made my approach for seeking Johnny's co-operation, participation and an interview much easier. In fact the film's unit publicist; Lauren Stogoff was very helpful with all of that. She very kindly distributed my request to Johnny's agent; Tracy Jacobs, Johnny's sister and now manager; Christi, and his publicist; Leslee Dart, because at that time, Christi was in the throes of re-organising Johnny's affairs. I remember Tracy was very difficult to get hold of at that time because she had just left ICM, and was still transient in between agencies, and I think it was still some weeks off Leslee becoming his publicist.

Vicki: When did you first hear something?

Nigel: It must have been a short while after the New Year holidays when Leslee called and told me Johnny was feeling uncomfortable with the idea of a biography at this time. Strangely enough, he felt he was too young, and hadn't done enough to warrant a biog! Leslee asked me if I would hold off for about a year, or until Johnny felt more comfortable with co-operating, which I was very happy to do, as was my publisher. But, of course, my publisher understandably wanted Johnny's agreement to co-operate with our biography in writing. Unfortunately Johnny wasn't sure how he would be feeling about a biog, even in a year's time, so as a compromise I offered to give Leslee editorial control and approval. At least that way, I knew the book would end up as an accurate account of Johnny's life and career so far. But shortly afterwards, Johnny was arrested in London - about the same time that the cover jacket art and picture spreads would have arrived at Leslee's office. About ten days later, Leslee returned them, apparently unreviewed, with a note saying that Johnny still wasn't interested in participating with my book. I must say though that Leslee was as helpful as she could be during our discussions, and responded to my requests for Johnny's co-operation in such a straightforward and uncomplicated manner that I was quite disappointed not to be collaborating with her on the project, especially as she had deemed my book on Winona an affectionate work. But I somehow think that Johnny's arrest contributed to the decision not to be involved with my book. The tabloids at that point were constantly on Johnny's back, and I think the idea of an authorised biography then became a complete no-no, whether then or in the future. Add to that, the fact that I was a biographer that Johnny didn't know, and unless he had read my book on Winona, probably hadn't even heard of. Although his decision not to be involved with my book probably forced me to work harder than an official biographer might, I would have still preferred to have written it with his and Leslee's co-operation.

Vicki: Did you get to speak to anyone who knew Johnny, or had worked with him?

Nigel: No not really. Well, not like I did with Winona. People can be very suspicious about co-operating with unapproved biographers. I remember calling Tim Burton's PA at Shepperton during the making of Sleepy Hollow to ask whether Tim would be interested in meeting with me, but I don't think he was, simply because it was an unauthorised work. A great pity really, because I would have been thrilled to have met him. It's always exciting to meet people you admire, and people you have previously written about, which of course, I had in Winona's book. He's certainly on my list of favourite people to meet alongside Johnny and Winona, especially as I consider him one of the main contributors to the success of their careers. Beetlejuice for Winona, and Edward Scissorhands for Johnny.

Vicki: On the subject of Winona, was it difficult to write about Johnny and Winona again since you covered their relationship so thoroughly in your Winona bio?

Nigel: Certainly it was a concern, mainly because I didn't want it to read the same as what I had written before but writing it from Johnny's perspective certainly helped. It actually turned out to be entirely different from what I did in Winona. Even the opening paragraph from the first Johnny and Winona chapter when they spot each other at the premiere of Great Balls of Fire ended up as something quite different. In fact, it was the first thing I wrote for the book because I knew it was going to be the most challenging. Although the facts of their story are well known, I've tried to write them so that they appear here as if for the first time. The advantage, of course, was that I purposely held over some stories that I didn't include in Winona's book, and that helped me when retelling what I believe was one of the most public fairytale romances in Hollywood. Certainly of their generation anyway.

Vicki: How did you get around the contradicting stories of their relationship?

Nigel: Well, you're always going to find contradictions. Even inconsequential afterthoughts. People all think differently and there is really no way of saying for certain whether things happened in a certain way or not. Each story has it's own perspective, and just because one contradicts another doesn't mean it should necessarily be ruled out altogether. In many cases though I was writing commentary, because you can never tell for sure what happened unless I could have asked Johnny and Winona themselves (which of course, I would have loved to have done!). I'm writing what I think to be true, and that's why in the prelims I point out that this is my story of Johnny Deep, not the story. And whereas Winona has talked about it in a few interviews since, Johnny never has, and I am not so sure he would, even if he'd agreed to have co-operated, so when I wasn't sure about something, I usually went with the version of events that had been most publicly reported, or confirmed by Johnny and Winona's spokespersons at the time. I certainly did that regarding their break-up. Although it was officially announced in June 93, we now know that it had ended long before that. But who actually ended the relationship - who knows? For a long time it was thought to be Winona, and certainly that's what I indicated in her book, but in December 97, she told US magazine that it was mutual, so for Johnny's book, I decided to go with the People Weekly version which kind of supported that.

Vicki: Was there anything that didn't end up in your book?

Nigel: Very little. I remember there were a couple of observations that were cut in final editing; the reference to Sherilyn Fenn's name on Johnny's helmet in Platoon; the Proclaimers "500 Miles" theme song from Benny & Joon; and how Winona demanded a flock of role model wannabes in comparison to Kate encouraging anorexia nervosa. And I think that was really all that was lost. But that was more to do more with my editor feeling that the commentary wasn't really necessary, and I suppose to a certain degree I would have to agree with that.

Vicki: How long did the book take you from planning, writing, to final editing?

Nigel: Between six to eight months, I guess. My researcher accessed as much as he could from the Internet, and he seemed to do that very quickly - within a couple of weeks at least. So I had a couple of box files to wade through which was kind of daunting at first. It always is when you start a book! And I read anything else I could get my hands on - I must have read all the books mentioned in the acknowledgements at least two or three times, watched all the movies, and as much of the CNN stuff that I could get my hands on. The UK television documentary "What's Eating Johnny Depp" and the Channel Four film season last Christmas was a real godsend. In fact, that's when I started writing - just before Christmas, and delivered the manuscript in April, so the actual writing process was probably a little over four months, but I was working eighteen hour days including weekends, so if you add all that up, I guess you could say the book took over eight months to do. The next stage after delivery of the manuscript is, of course, the proofing - an author usually gets the second and final sets. The second one is usually the one that goes through most of the changes, and the final set is normally just for final checking before it goes to print. I remember we decided to cut the "Introduction" down quite considerably because we didn't want to repeat what was in the main body of the text. And if my memory serves me correctly, the chapter title quotes were done right at the last minute, as was the birth of Johnny and Vanessa's baby, and a new ending. Originally the book had ended with Winona's quote about Johnny being "a good boy", but my editor thought it was too an abrupt an ending, so we decided to do a kind of summary in about half a dozen or so paragraphs. But I still prefer the Winona ending!

Vicki: Is there a role that you would like to see Johnny or Winona play?

Nigel: If you take a look in the book at the picture of Johnny and Winona at the Golden Globes in 91, I think that shows how he would be very well suited to a period piece. Something like Dickens or Austen. But I guess we're now going to see something close to that in Sleepy Hollow. Certainly the Keanu Reeves role in Bram Stoker's Dracula would have been a good one for him, and being opposite Winona would have worked really well because of their on-screen chemistry. I really do hope that someday we will get to see them again in a movie together. I think a lot of people were hoping that she was going to do Sleepy Hollow, and that Just To Be Together hadn't been just another another rumour. In fact, every time I watch What's Eating Gilbert Grape, I always think how the Juliette Lewis role would have been perfect for Winona. That's not to say Juliette was miscast or anything like that, because she wasn't. She was really good. But Winona in that role is just an interesting thought. As interesting, in fact, as if she had been well enough to do The Godfather Part III. Because again, it was a role that would have been perfect for her, you know, in the same way that Don Juan DeMarco was for Johnny.

Vicki: How does it feel to know that the Library of Congress will catalog your Johnny and Winona biographies?

Nigel: Very exciting. It's like when Winona's book was nominated for a literary award. It's just something you never expect, and for me, it was really wonderful because it was administered by the Booksellers Association and I felt honoured to be included in such a list of great writers, and the fact that they included my book among them still means a lot to me. And especially as the book was more special to me than any of my other books. It was my first Hollywood biography, and for it to be recognised in this way was just wonderful because I was lucky enough to write about one of my favourite people in movies. You have to remember that Winona Ryder is my hobby, so to have my book on her catalogued in the US Library of Congress and in the British Library is just wonderful.

Vicki: Will you being doing any tours, lectures or signings for the Johnny Depp biography?

Nigel: I'm doing the usual round of press and radio interviews in the UK at the moment, and I guess as publication date approaches in the US, Seven Hills will line up some interviews for me, which they did for Winona's biog. I'd really love to do some tours and lectures though - especially in the US. Seven Hills did actually set up a two-week West Coast tour of book signings and interviews for last November when Winona was released, but at the eleventh hour, my sponsor had to pull out of funding the trip, and I had to postpone my visit, which was really disappointing. We still did some interviews though over the phone including one for Entertainment Weekly, which sadly they didn't run with because of the tour being cancelled. But I did a lot of stuff in the UK including a few talks at book stores, arthouse cinemas and some cineplexes, so I'm hoping I'll get to do some similar things for Johnny's book.

Vicki: When's the publication date in the States?

Nigel: Well, its August 2nd in the UK, so I guess for the States it'll be about six weeks later because of the shipping time. I think that's what it was for Winona anyway. But amazon.com, of course, may have it earlier. I'm really not sure of the exact date though when it will be in the stores. I hope I don't disappoint anyone, and I hope that the wait will be considered worth it! I think if everyone shares the same opinion as Mette's review, then I'm going to be thrilled. My wish is that it'll reach a readership of people that feel not only affectionate about Johnny, but also Johnny and Winona. People it'll mean something to. I set out with the thought that their almost fairytale romance was also this wonderful Hollywood love story, and that's certainly what a large part of the book is about.

Mette's review of Johnny Depp: The Biography can be found on the Books page and don't forget to check out Nigel's Johnny and Winona Page" - just click onto the photo of Johnny and Winona on the homepage. Readers will be able to obtain the book from their favorite bookstore soon, or online at amazon.com or can order directly from Seven Hills by calling 1-800-545-2005 (s&h $3.50 additional). Nigel's Winona Ryder: The Biography is also currently available with the same ordering information and also online at barnesandnoble.com.

Johnny Depp: The Biography ISBN: 1-85782-341-9, £9.99 ($15.95 USA)
Winona Ryder: The Biography ISBN: 1-85782-214-5, £9.99 ($14.95 USA)

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