Interview and pictures by Christophe d'Yvoire Translation by Corinne

"The Brave", his first film as a director makes him one of the personalities most excepted of this 50th film festival. Before seeing his movie which will be presented in a worldwide preview, let's go back on the set when, the day before welcoming Marlon Brando on the set, he accepted to answer our questions.

Last September, we were invited on the set of "The Brave", the film in which Johnny Depp plays and makes his debut as a director. An extraordinary filming that made us see Johnny Depp front and behind the camera and allowed us to meet Marlon Brando, himself, who plays a second part in it (see Studio # 120, march 1997). The film is about Rafael, a young American Indian portrayed by Johnny Depp who accepts to play in a snuff movie in order to save his family from misery (you know this type of illegal movie in which the actors die for real in front of the camera). "The Brave" is the story of Rafael's last week life (just after he agreed on signing a deal with Marlon Brando, the producer of the snuff movie).
After more than seven weeks spent in the desert, the crew moved to Los Angeles for the last ten days of shooting (including the famous shots with Marlon Brando). Exhausted, worn out, but so happy to be at the end of this adventure, one night, Johnny Depp accepted to have us home for an interview and we are so pleased to let you read about it.
At this time, Johnny Depp was far from seeing his movie achieved (the cutting hadn't start yet), he told us how proud he would be to show it during the Cannes film festival. Eight months later, the wish had become true. Before showing "The Brave" in the official selection, let's go back to the genesis of the project.

Studio : When did you first think about directing "The Brave" ?
Johnny Depp : Two or three years ago, a friend of mine sent me a script entitled "The Brave" and told me : "Read this, I'm pretty much sure you're going to love it and want to play in it." So I read it and ... I hated it!!! It was full of clichés, a kind of christic allegory with not even a drop of humor. It sounded like a funeral walk. Not to mention that the hero, Rafael, was kind of dumb, innocent like are the ignorant. Awful ! But, despite all these mistakes, I kind of think about the starting idea rather interesting, so I decided to meet the producers who insisted a lot for casting me as the leading role. We talked a lot, for a long while, such a long while that I finally happen to hear myself saying : " Anyway, if you want me to play in it, I want to direct it as well."

Studio : Was it the first time you thought about directing ?
JD : Yes, at least for a movie. Because, you know a movie is like a gigantic math equation to solve and math has never been my cup of tea. I directed short takes (or cuts) that I financed myself for fun, but I never had the desire to go further.

Studio : Why did you ask to direct on that day ?
JD : (Laughs). Seriously, I don't know. I guess something in the story touched something deeply inside me, but I couldn't say what. I know I'm pretty much shattered by the idea of sacrifice. To which point will go for the ones you love, for your family ? It's a theme I'm totally fascinated by. On the other hand, that story has so many links with what is the real America nowadays. All these people smashed over by the society, by the government and nevertheless they have a magnificent dignity despite their miserable living conditions. Despite the horrors they've been through, Indians or Mexicans from America had always known how to keep this dignity and so with their spirituality. All this echoed in my head and I suddenly realized that I would like to make a story on that subject. But I didn't know how to star it, to articulate it, neither how to express it. So I decided to go back to the script from the very beginning and I called my brother with who I wrote a script, five or six years before, that we never shot. And we went back to work.

Studio : Have you ever read the book from "The Brave" ?
JD : No, and I haven't yet. But, I met the author, Gregory Mac Donald. He's a great guy, very neat and I like him a lot. Strange things you know he happens to be known for writing funny stories... One day, he came on the set and I told him I haven't read his book but that the story of it really inspired me even if I didn't stick to it. I think I really understood what I meant. By the way, he confessed he didn't read my script either.... (Laughs)

Studio : First you only wanted to direct the film, you didn't think about acting in it ...
JD : Yes, that was my dream. But, they quickly explained me that if I only directed it the budget would be a million dollars. On the contrary, if I also played Rafael's part the budget would suddenly be five millions dollars. You know it happens to be impossible to shoot this movie with a million dollars budget. Obviously I had to agree.

Studio : If you weren't cast as Rafael who would you have cast for this part ?
JD : I didn't have time to think about it. I guess I would have cast a beginner a not famous American Indian actor or even an American Indian guy who would have never played in any movie and would feel like trying.

Studio : Was it difficult for you to direct yourself ?
JD : Difficult ? Awful.

Studio : Why ?
JD : For many reasons to tell you the truth. But, mostly because as an actor you have to put yourself in a state if trance, you have to loose control on reality. But when you direct, it's exactly the opposite : everything must be under control at any time. You mustn't loose control on what you are doing at any time. These are two opposite attitude and it's stressing to have to go from one to the other incessantly.

Studio : What was your first impression on the first day of directing ?
JD : It's a strange feeling you know. I was told I would get stage fright, I would feel projected, and so on and so full... In fact I didn't feel anything like this. On the contrary, I totally trust my feelings about the story and the crew. But you know what really messed me up was seeing me on the screen for the rushes for the first fifteen days. That was really painful.

Studio : Why ?
JD : I hate seeing me on the screen. I never go to the rushes scenes as an actor and I really can't stand seeing the movies I play in. I do it only if I have to. Obviously, for "The Brave" I had to go to the rushes and face myself almost every night ! For two weeks it totally blocked me and I wasn't able to judge anything. Fortunately, it changed a little bit. Today, I still not like it but, hell ! I can stand it now.

"What fascinated me about this story was the idea of the ultimate sacrifice. What would you do for love to which point ?"

Studio : Did any of the directors you worked with advised you ?
JD : They didn't advice me. But there's one thing for sure Kusturica, Tim Burton, John Waters and Jim Jarmusch, who are friends of mine, inspired me, consciously or not. They have all been a great support during the filming they often called me on the phone and sent many fax.

Studio : Did you wonder : what would they do if they directed it instead of me ?
JD : For instance : where would they place the camera for this scene ? No. But let's say that two or three of the shooting are an homage to Kusturica's work. First to thank him for letting me his set photographer and his decorator on "The Brave". And then because I'm kind a like him I love twisting reality like Emir knows to do it so well on the screen.

Studio : Did you improvise a lot on the set ?
JD : Yes, a lot. Maybe too much. (Laughs). I would say that 70 % of what we shot wasn't originally planed in the script. It was in it but not developed. It really came up on the set.

Studio : What was the most difficult thing on the set ?
JD : Dealing with money, with insurance and the trade-unions rules. No kidding ! Can you imagine hearing an assistant yelling "Lunch break in five minutes !" or having a man rushing on the set telling you that the kid you are going to film has to leave the set in ten minutes sharp and you suddenly realized you wouldn't have enough time to shoot the scene. I would say facing all these little mosquitoes coming to ruin your life on the set. These "fuc..." rules make you feel like stopping everything. It's really a nightmare. If, one day, I have to film another movie I would do it with a 16 mm camera, five people and that's it. No more a hundred people crew, never ! It's too hard to handle.

Studio : Let's go back to the script, in the story do you see any metaphor with the acting condition : you know a sort of sell your soul or sell your body stuff ?
JD : Being an actor is a kind of prostitution but it's not what I'm really interested in this job. The idea that seduced me before everything was the idea of sacrifice. What are you ready to do, to what end would you go ? No matter you are an actor or a plumber, every one does daily sacrifice. But what is the ultimate sacrifice ? Is it the one when you give your life ? That was that fascinated me in the story. But also the narrow verge existing between sacrifice and suicide.

Studio : Do you know where this fascination comes from ?
JD : No idea !

Studio : Have you ever been in a similar situation ?
JD : I would do anything for my family. Anything. I would eat my own leg. I would steal, loot, kill if I had to.

Studio : You've always been very close to your family.
JD : Yes, very close. My own family started to disaggregate when I was 9 or 10 years old. My brother left, then my sister got married. My parents who were separated for a long time finally ended up in divorcing when I was 15 years old. But, actually, they've been living separately for ten years. Nevertheless, we always have this strong relation, even though we didn't act like a "normal" family.

Studio : You chose Marlon Brando to play the part of Mac Carty, the snuff movies producer who engages Rafael. Did you think of him for the part when you wrote it ?
JD : Yes I did think of him when I wrote the part. I costarred Marlon, in "Don Juan de Marco" and we had this strong relationship we keep on having. I mean, since I know Marlon, he's been always here when I needed help. You know I just have to be in trouble and bing the phone rang and guess who's on the line : Marlon Brando. I don't how he finds me or knows that I need him. It's just it. He's that incredible human being.

Studio : Before you knew him, what did you think about him ?
JD : Of course, I did appreciate his work as an actor. But more than this I imagined he was a fascinating person, with such a powerful spirit, very profound, like, you know, a yogi. When I first met him, I was very nervous but in a minute I felt instantaneously at ease.

Studio : So you wrote the scene for him ...
JD : The truth he was the one I thought about for the part but I never thought of asking him for the part for I wouldn't him to think that I was over trusting our friendship. Last year, we started together the filming, in Ireland, of "Divine Rapture" (directed by Tom Eveerhart, with Debra Winger and John Hurt) that finally ended three weeks later for the lack of money. Many times, I tried to tell him about this part I wrote thinking of him, but I couldn't do it ... And then, the first day of the shooting on "The Brave" set, I got a call from Marlon. He knew I was about to become a director but he surely didn't know that the day was precisely the day of my first take as a director. I guess unconsciously, he knew it. On the phone, he told me nice things, pleasant to hear such as "I'm so happy for you" and "I'm so proud of you" and so on and so full. A week later, he called me back and we started talking about the story of "The Brave". After a while he asked me : "Who's going to play Mac Carty ?" I answered that I didn't know yet. And then Marlon simply said "I'm going to be him".

Studio : In two days you're starting the shooting with Marlon Brando, are you anxious about the idea of directing him next week ?
JD : I think it's impossible to direct him. He's already ready when he arrives if I may say. No, I'm not anxious. On the contrary, I'm very thrilled with the idea of working with him. I feel like a student, fascinated, facing a great teacher. I feel like a sponge next to him. I'm very impatient too for I know that once again he's going to teach me a lot. He's such an angel to give me this gift. He's such an angel...

"I've been hanging around in Hollywood for ten years now and I always feel like I'm an outlaw in the Holywoodian star system."

Studio : You asked Iggy Pop to compose the music for "The Brave"...
JD : Yes and he started to work quite immediately and brought me few demo to listen to. It's strange you know Iggy has this image that generaly doesn't stick to what he really is. People only see him as the punk inventor that is true but also so reducing. He certainly is a musician but, before all, he is an artist, a poet. He's such a great guy so clever and witty. He's like a scientist. I don't know if people can feel about him that he has such an unbelievable sensitivity and that sharp sense of melody too. He's such a stage performer...

Studio : You two are close friends ?
JD : Yes, we do see each other rather often when I stay in New York. We actually met in 1989, on the set of John Waters' "Cry Baby". But I had already met him long before. We were in a bar in 1980. At this time, I was part of a band who played first part of his show. I was 17. It was in Gainesville in Florida. After the concert, we all gathered in a bar and I absolutely wanted to draw his attention to me. When they closed the bar, I was totally drunk and I started yelling obscenities at him. He didn't react at first, after a while Iggy came close to me, looked me straight in the eyes and said "You little scum bag !" Then he left. I felt at the top of the world at least he finally knew I was existing. That was great.

Studio : Do you think that "The Brave", as you also directs it, will be your most personal film ?
JD : In a way I would definitely say yes. I totally investing me in this movie so I had to put much about myself in it than in any other. For instance there quite a few things in "The Brave" that make me laugh and I know not many people would laugh about them.

Studio : Why ?
JD : Because it's twisted, insane. On the contrary, there is a very dark side in the movie that totally overturns me but I don't know how the others would feel about it. It's such a weird subject. I'm fascinated by the way a person is going to act knowing he's living his last week of his life on earth. What I can really say is that I directed this movie honestly without embellishment. There will be many changes in rhythm and tones in the movie for I like provoking surprise. I didn't want an easy movie. That's one of the reasons why I'm so glad Iggy Pop agreed on signing the soundtrack. He too likes breaking rhythms.

Studio : Can you say that today you see a link between all your movies ?
JD : ... Yes ... An embarrassing link to tell the truth... It seems that I'm addicted to losers, addicted ones... It's always the story of the guy on the wrong side. Yes, there's definitely a kind of strange link but I do accept it. Some people have great ambitions, goals to achieve. Talking about me, I don't have any great ambitions. I didn't have the ambition of directing a movie and look at me now I'm directing one. I didn't have the ambition of being an actor and bang ! here I am. It just happened. I don't feel like having any control on my destiny. On the opposite, I know instinctively what is honest for me and I do my best to stick to it. And then I always have on my mind this thinking that says you can loose at any time everything you have without being touched.

Studio : Do you think about it sometimes ?
JD : Yes, of course. Maybe I should have gone for it five years ago, gone for the blockbuster race, trying to be more powerful; But, it's ridiculous because it's not the way I am. I've been hanging around in Hollywood for ten years now and I always feel like I'm an outlaw in the Holywoodian star system. I mean, I'm not Tom Cruise for instance. I would not be able to do what he does. It would feel like diving in a boiling oil bath, a kind of suicide. What is the link between all the movies I play in ? I couldn't really say it. But I surely know there's one and it's an honest one.*

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