How did you - how did you get that name? Why are you a one-name person?
Well, I was born with that name. I was named after my mother. And I guess when I started making records, Madonna Ciccone seemed too long and complicated, and I just got stuck with Madonna.

What age did that start?
The one-name deal? I guess when I was about 23. So I had two names until the age of 23.

But it took a lot of guts, right, to call yourself one name making your first record?
No. It seemed completely natural. I thought that it -- I mean, it means so many things. But I just felt like it was a very good stage name. And everybody actually thought it was a theatrical name that I took on, so.

It works obviously.
Yes, it's a name to live up to.

Were you a singing kid? Were you a kid who -- were you in the glee club?
I was more of a dancing kid than a singing kid. I mean, I sang in school choirs and I sang in school musicals, but I was much more interested in dancing than singing.

What happened? You still dance, right? Dance is part of the act.
Absolutely. But when I left Michigan and I came to New York, that was my goal, to be a professional dancer. And I sort of fell into singing by accident in a way.

How?
Well, I danced in a lot of companies in New York for years, and realized that I was going to be living a hand-to-mouth existence for the rest of my life.

Companies meaning Broadway shows.
Oh, no. Modern dance.

Oh, troupes.
Yes, modern dance. And you know, it was -- it was a really hard living, and so then I decided to start going to, like, off-Broadway auditions and Broadway auditions, mostly as a dancer. And I started singing -- I had to sing for the auditions, and then, you know, people would hear me sing. And they'd say, hey, your voice isn't bad. And I'd say, oh, really?

I mean, I never had any training. I never wanted to be a singer. That's not how I started out.

Would you rather have been...
A dancer?

Yes.
No. I am quite happy with the way things have turned out. I mean, I incorporate...

Supposing dance paid as well.
I'm glad that it turned out this way, because as a singer I can use all of my dance training. And I think that singing is much more of an emotional expression.

Is that -- are you a singer who dances and acts or are you an actor who sings and dances? Who are you?
I don't know.

What are you? [Laughter] How do you think of yourself first?
That's hard to say. I mean, I think of myself as a performance artist. I hate being called a pop star. I hate that. And -- I don't know. I mean, I guess since my original training- training was with -- was dancing, so I think of myself primarily as a dancer.

But performance artist is pretty good. It covers a wide...
Yes, I like that because it covers everything.

Covers acting certainly.
Covers everything. And we have to act all the time, don't we?

Yes. Don't we? Have you enjoyed all the fame you have gotten? Obviously you wanted it, right? You don't choose this business without wanting to be well-known, one would think. I don't want to presume that. Did you?
That's true. You don't. But on the other hand, before you're famous, you don't know what you're getting yourself into and you don't know until you're in the middle of it what you have sort of asked for.

What's the worst thing about it?
The worst thing about being famous? I think it's -- you know, I think it's what everybody says -- the lack of privacy and the -- the idea that you're not really allowed to make mistakes and everything that you do is viewed under a microscope.

So therefore, do you hide?
Well...

As, say, Mr. Presley did.
He hide -- he hid?

Well, he hid. Jackie Gleason told him don't hide or you're going to be lonely. Go out.
No. I don't hide. I definitely don't hide. I mean, I go out. I go for walks. I go to the theater. No. I just...

Do you like or not like being recognized?
If I have a pimple, I don't want to be recognized. I mean, really, it depends on the mood I am in. Sometimes you want to go for a walk and you don't want to be watched. You just want to be anonymous and blend in. Especially when I travel, I feel that way, because I can't really go out and see a city the way other people can and I miss out on a lot.

You can't be a tourist?
Yes. I like to be the watcher and not the watchee.

What's the best thing about it?
Free clothes.

You get free clothes?
Yes, it's great.

Designers give you clothes so that you'll wear it to the...
To everything -- to this interview.

They gave you this?
Yes. I'm wearing, you know, free Gucci leather jacket.

And to Gucci, that's worth it?
Yes. But you know, it's -- I mean, it's part -- it's a privilege. It's a perk. It comes with, you know, the territory. But you know, it's like we work the clothes, right?

Were you a poor kid?
I won't say that we were poor. But we definitely -- I would say we were lower middle class, and I come from a really big family.

Eight children.
Eight children.

Were you the oldest?
No. I am the oldest girl, and I have two older brothers.

Do you like a big family?
Yes, I do. Do I want to have eight children? No.

No. [Laughter] The best thing about you growing up -- you didn't have a lot of money -- what I am getting to in dealing with money is what's it like to not have needs financially to where you can buy anything you see in the store.
Well, the thing is I have such a sort of puritanical middle-class upbringing that I still don't really go shopping and buy anything I want. I'm too -- I'm just too reserved for that.

You still stop on a page if it says sale.
No, no. No, I am not into, like, things on sale. I don't go to the sale rack. But I'm also very -- you know, I wouldn't say I am decadent in my spending. I am careful.

Even though you can spend it...
Yes. I kind of forget that I have money sometimes.

Our guest is Madonna. Her album Ray of Light has gone -- is nominated for album of the year. It's going to be on the Grammys. She's going to sing the opening number on the Grammys. It's also nominated as record of the year.

And the album has already gone triple platinum. Here's a scene, or a piece, of Ray of Light.

We'll be right back.

We're back with Madonna -- the lovely and very talented Madonna.

We have got a lot to talk about: her film career and extraordinary -- you have had an unusual life.
I've had an incredible life. I am truly blessed.

On the base of it, it's much more pluses than minuses?
Absolutely. I mean, we were talking about fame earlier and there are bad things about it, but I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's.

The marriage to Sean Penn -- it got so much attention and knowing him, he didn't like that.
No.

Did you like it? You were in the tabloids every other day.
No, I didn't like the attention that, you know, the focus on the state of the our marriage. I like attention when it's about the work, but not about relationships.

And he didn't like it either?
No, he hated it -- no.

Are you friends?
Yes, we are.

Was -- are you happy for how his career has gone?
Oh, yes I think he's an incredible actor and I think he's done very well. I'm -- I'm, you know, I'm honored to know him.

So that part of your life while it may have not ended the way you like, was it a plus, when you look back and say, I am glad I had that experience. Some people would; some people wouldn't.
No, I learned a lot, and, you know, while it is -- oh, I am not supposed to move my arm.

No, only if you move your arm we hit the mike off the new Gucci leather.
Of course, it makes so much noise, this Gucci leather. The thing is he's an -- I learned a lot. He's an incredible human being. He's intelligent; he's talented. Even though things didn't work out for us in terms of our marriage, I don't regret marrying him for a moment.

How about being a mother?
I certainly don't regret that.

I mean is it all you thought it would be?
It's more than what I thought it would be.

The press -- and hate to -- they all refer to it as you were out looking for someone. You deliberately wanted to pick a father. It was almost like -- was any of that true?
Absolutely not. I had a relationship for two years with Carlos before -- before I got pregnant and I was madly in love with him, and it's a ludicrous accusation. I don't know where it came from. But it's -- you know, it's not fair. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to him.

Is he a good father?
He's an excellent father.

Sees the child. That's his dad -- that's her daddy.
Oh, yes.

What do you like best about motherhood? You had it late, right? You were 37.
Thirty-eight, actually, when I gave birth, yes. What do I like best about it? Just -- I mean, every day I am in complete wonderment of her and I love being woken up in the morning. I love her coming in the room and kissing me and waking me up. I love looking into her eyes. I love watching her grow. I love watching her absorb life around her.

As you see her, she's rather pretty.
Oh, yes, she's gorgeous, if I do say so.

But you also have a life of flying here, flying there, being on stage.
Yes. So far she goes everywhere I go.

What are you going do when she goes to school?
Well, I am going to stay in one place and I am going to work from -- when she's in school. Starting at the age of four I am not going to travel while she's in school. Say I have to go somewhere for the weekend or something like that, I would leave her, but I don't want to take her out of school and I don't want to be away from her for any extended period of time.

Is she going through terrible two's?
Yes, lots of tantrums. She's got -- yes. She has two -- she has two things that she sort of, like, if she can't have, she throws herself on the floor and starts...

And so we give it to her or don't...
No, no we don't give it to her.

Oh, that's Midwest we don't give it to her. Jews we give it to her.
Really?

What else? Why would you...
You can't, that's not good.

I know, my wife tells me that's not good. But how do you not? How do you not? How do you not -- a child is pleading for something.
Because you have to -- I mean you have to have discipline. You have to teach them discipline. You have to show them who's in charge. If you give in to them every time they're going to run your life. Come on, Larry.

Isn't it hard not to, though, truth? Especially when you get a little older -- I don't mean that 38 is old.
I'll give in when she says she wants a piece of sugarless gum. Then I'll say yes, but she can't watch TV.

She can't watch TV?
No, she won't be watching this interview.

Why can't she watch?
Because I don't want her to get addicted to it. Kids get addicted to it. They become mesmerized.

Barney?
No, no there's no Barney in her life.

No Barney.
No.

That's like mean.
No, it's not. I didn't watch TV when I grew up. She likes to read. She uses her imagination. She's very verbal. She has an incredible memory. All of those things I don't think she would have if she watched TV all the time.

Do you ever feel when you see Barney or hear about him that you're depriving her? I'm only kidding.
No, I don't get it -- that big purple thing -- I don't get it.

Neither do I. It's a big purple thing.
Is it a purple thing -- right I can't remember -- or is it a yellow thing?

Purple.
No, that's Big Bird -- OK.

[Laughter]

We'll be back with more of Madonna. You learn something new every night on this show. Don't go away.

That clip is from Erotica. And when people think of Madonna, they think of lots of things: singer, actress, talent. And they also think sex. And that was something you promoted, didn't you? I mean, you wrote a book about it.
Well, I didn't write a book about sex. I wrote a book that -- I mean I published a book that basically was sort of a -- an ironic tongue-in-cheek, sticking-my-tongue-out-at-society photo essay...

Take that.
So there.

Yes, well it worked, obviously. It sold and people reacted to it.
It pissed off a lot of people, too.

Yes. What did it do -- did it effect your career at all?
Well, probably. I mean, I would think everything I've done has effected my career.

I mean negatively. You think people said, "Boy, she shouldn't have done that.
Yes, I think -- I think that there were a lot of people that were freaked out about it, yes.

What about your daughter when she grows up and gets to see it?
Well, she sees my naked body almost every day. I don't think she's going to be freaked out about it. I...

You don't -- you don't think it will bother her.
No, not at all. And besides, if you really read and you know me and you know my sense of humor, it's not meant to be -- it was never meant to be this, like: "Oh, this is the hottest book of the most incredible sexual fantasies. That's not what it's meant to be.

It was a parody in a sense?
Yes, it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and, you know, I think she'll understand it. I'll explain it to her.

The thing that you're always linked with many: Do you like that? Like famous men? People think of you and they think of Dennis Rodman and Warren Beatty and...
I've gone out with as many not-famous men as famous men.

But do you like that linking? Is that -- you're very involved in making it. Is that good for the career to be known that you're out with someone famous?
I don't need any of those people to help my career, and, quite frankly, I don't think they did. I think that everything I've done, I've done on my own. You know, sometimes you say -- you can say to yourself, "Well, it's easier to be with someone who's famous, because they're not freaked out about having their picture taken...

Yes.
... and they're not freaked out about being written about and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, it's hard for everybody, and, you know, famous or not, it's difficult to be in a relationship with anyone that's in the entertainment business.

Do you want to marry?
I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that.

Why?
Well, because sometimes I ask myself what, you know, what does marriage mean. What is it exactly? What's the point of it. It seems like a really...

Nice tradition, though, isn't it? If it were just a tradition of bonding.
I certainly -- I'm a romantic, and I believe in true love, and I, you know, and the whole, you know, finding your soul mate and all of those things, but I just don't know the whole marriage thing -- I mean, what's the point of it really?

You don't see a point?
Well, I'm not sure. I mean, don't know how I feel about it. I'm really conflicted, because there's a part of me that thinks that it's -- that it is, like, a sacred ritual and it -- a beautiful tradition, and then there's a part of me that thinks that it was -- it came from a time when -- when women -- when it was a contract, that a, sort of, a woman entered into when a woman wasn't capable of taking care of herself and she needed a man to take care of her, and so I, you know, I have a lot of mixed feelings about it.

The Catholic part of you probably wants to, right?
The Catholic part of me, and there is -- I do have an old-fashioned part of me, the romantic part of me, but...

It's not that -- supposing you met someone, you fell in love, and he wanted to get married.
Well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Good answer. We'll be right back with more Madonna. We'll be taking your phone calls later. She'll sing the opening number on the Grammys coming up in February.

Don't go away.

Are you interested in politics by the way?
Oh, yes, very.

And do you support candidates? Are you outspoken.
To a certain extent. I mean, you know, when I am interviewed -- I certainly support President Clinton.

What do you -- do you feel he's getting...
The short end of the stick? Yes.

But he caused it, though.
Well -- he caused it? How -- I mean...

Well, I mean, no act, no follow-up.
Well, that's true to a certain extent. But I mean, you know, he's not the first president to have, you know, an adulterous relationship. So I think it's a combination of his behavior, and you know, the lynch mob mentality of the Republican Party.

Are you surprised that the public is in his corner?
No, not at all.

Because we're supposed to be very puritanical about sex.
Well, we're not, are we? And thank God.

I mean, at the end of the day, I think, you know, whether you think he did the right thing or the wrong thing or whatever, I think most people just want to get on with things. And you know, let's get back to the important issues, and I think people are really sick of it.

The movies -- enjoy doing films?
Yes. I do.

Like stage -- I saw you do -- have you done other stage other than...
I did two plays. I did a David Mamet play and I did David Ray play. And I loved doing both of them. And I would love to do another play.

I think performing live is far superior to filming -- absolutely.

So you would rather be in a theater?
Yes, I would actually.

Was "Evita" difficult?
Oh, yes. That's an understatement.

Because?
Well...

Crowd scenes?
It was difficult -- it was difficult on every level. It was difficult because we were, you know, filming in Argentina. And we were making a movie about a person that was a very controversial political figure. So there were, you know, mob scenes about people who didn't want us to make the movie and mob scenes about people who wanted us to make the movie. And then, you know, the heat and the thousands of extras, and you know, we were moving around the world to different continents. And I was pregnant. And you know, it was a long shoot. And we were making a musical. I mean...

Was it tougher -- it was kind of an opera.
Yes.

There was no spoken word in it.
Not really, no. And it was -- I think, you know -- I think that Alan really was -- you know, we were all doing something, and we weren't sure what we were doing in a way.

Alan...
Alan Parker, yes. I mean, I think everyone believed in what we were doing and everyone was really passionate about it, but no one's ever done a movie like that before, so it was a risk.

Were you surprised at how well Banderas sang?
I was. I was very surprised. He has a lovely voice.

Did you like working with him?
I loved working with him. He's great. He really is.

Good friend?
Yes. Great actor, great singer, charming man, very generous. Yes. He was great.

You did another movie everybody that I know liked that didn't do well.
Which one?

The murder -- where you were the murderess.
The what?

You were a murderer.
Oh, I think I have been a murderress in a couple of movies.

With...
Oh, yes. "Body of Evidence."

"Body of Evidence" with Willem Dafoe and...
And...

... Ray...
No, wait a minute. My co-star in "Speed the Plow." Oh, God. Joe Mantegna.

Joe Mantegna.
Yes, yes. He's great too.

So films would be secondary to theater, though, I just wondered...
Well, just in terms of the enjoyment factor of doing it. But you know, there's -- I would still -- I would love to make another great film. I haven't made a movie since I did "Evita" because I haven't really found something that I was as passionate about. But I am going to make a movie in a couple of months.

Dick Tracy fun?
That was fun. That was fun, for sure. I had a really good time on that.

And you like Warren?
I do, indeed.

Me too. We'll be back -- not in the same way. No.
Maybe in the same way.

Maybe in the same way.

[Laughter]

We'll be back. We're going to include your phone calls for Madonna. Don't go away.

We're back with Madonna.

We're going to go to your calls momentarily. She's our guest the full hour. Her album "Ray of Light" has already gone triple-platinum. It's included in the "Album of the Year" and "Record of the Year" for the Grammys. She has six Grammy nominations. She will sing "Ray of Light" as the opening number at the Grammys in February. She's on the cover of the latest edition of "Harper's Bazaar" magazine with her new look, that of a geisha. Is that the way you describe this? Is this a geisha look?
Geisha.

Geisha, geisha.
Yes, inspired by -- I read a book called "Memoirs of a Geisha," which had a...

Great book.
Yes. Did you read it?

Great book.
Incredible. Yes there was a character in the book called Hatsu Momo and she's been my muse for the past six months. So I don't know.

Do -- looking at all the pictures and videos you go through lots of changes, right?
Yes.

Why?
Why not.

Most people change, but not dramatic. You go dramatic.
That's why I like to call myself a performance artist because what I do is I sort of just, like, collect ideas whether it's paintings or film or literature or a character in history. I like to sort of appropriate things, and -- I don't know.

So you get -- you'll get tired of this in while? Is tired a good word? You'll look in the mirror and say I don't like this anymore. I don't want to blond, I want to be Hillary.
Hillary -- oh, no.

[Laughter]

Does she change her hair a lot?

She does.
She doesn't have -- because I am an artist, I feel like, you know, I have a lot more freedom to do whatever I want, be whatever I want.

But I mean is it ever a whim? Do you ever just look in the mirror and say: changing today?
Yes, I do that all the time -- absolutely. And after you make several videos, you see yourself on TV, you do several photo shoots, you kind of get sick of it. You have to move on.

Let's include some calls for Madonna. Cleveland, hello.

Hi, Madonna. I was wondering what do you see yourself -- or what do you see yourself doing in 10 years?
Everybody asks me that question.

Yes, at 50, what are you going to do at 50?
Well, I hope -- well, I hope that I'm -- you know, I would like to have more children, so hopefully I will be enjoying my family, and -- I mean, I don't know. I am sure I'll be an actress. I am sure I'll be writing music -- who knows, maybe I'll have an art gallery. I have no idea.

Do you see yourself playing character roles?
Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Which wouldn't bother you at all not to be the femme fatale?
No, not at all.

No effect?
Well, I mean, what's wrong with a character role?

Some people always want to assume that being the lovely part and...
Well I am not always going to be lovely, let's just face that fact.

We do age.
Yes, we do.

Why did you name your daughter Lourdes? That's a place, right?
For several reasons. Yes, Lourdes is a city in France, and it's -- well, it's a city of healing. There are healing waters there. It's a place where miracles occur, so for that reason because she was a miracle and is a miracle. But also, we call her Lourdes. She's half Cuban and that's a very popular Cuban name.

So in Cuba it's common to have.
Yes.

What's her nickname, Lourdy?
No Lola. Lola -- I know how did we get that.

That doesn't make any sense.
Well because I was also a big fan of that name -- Lola.

Whatever Lola wants.
Lola doesn't get.

Doesn't get.
[Laughter]

Yes, that's exactly. Both Lola Montez -- have you ever heard of her?

No.
She's a famous -- well, she was an infamous woman. She brought down the King of Bavaria. You never heard of Lola Montez.

When did she do this?
In the 1700s.

An early Lewinsky.
No, she was -- come on now.

I am only kidding.
She was a dancer. She had some skills.

[Laughter]

No, but she was -- by birth she was Irish and she married -- it's a long story, but it's a very interesting story. There's a movie called "Lola Montez" that you should rent and watch. It's pretty fascinating, but she completely reinvented herself because she married this guy in India -- her parents married her off at a young age.

So you were leaning toward naming your child Lola?
Well, I loved that name and I loved the name Lourdes, so I named her Lourdes and I call here Lola -- go figure.

Tell me about Kabbalah.
What do you want to know?

How your interest began -- this is a...
The mystical...

Now I'm Jewish. I don't remember learning anything about it when I was a kid growing up.
Because they don't teach the Kabbalah in -- it is considered traditionally the only people that are supposed to learn the Kabbalah are men, and they have to be over the age of 42. So because that is considered...

So this is a sect of the orthodox.
Yes, traditionally, but I mean its roots are in orthodox Judaism, but think historically, I think a group of rabbis and, you know, scholars broke away and said look, if this information is so enlightening and so important and can help other people, why are we limiting it to teaching it just to men, Jewish men who are passed the age of 42? So people -- teachers, you know, started kind of branching out and opening up centers.

What attracted you?
A friend of mine who is Jewish and -- but who isn't very religious was going to these classes, and she kept coming back and telling me about them and telling me about this great charismatic rabbi and these great stories, these fables that he would tell and how moving they were. And I could never -- it sort of went in one ear and out the other and I could never figure out what she was talking about. So finally out of curiosity I went to a class in Los Angeles. I was about 6-1/2 months pregnant and I was very moved by it. And it didn't really matter that I was, you know, raised a Catholic or I wasn't Jewish and I felt very comfortable and I liked being anonymous in a classroom environment and it was nice learning.

Do you feel now you are a...
A honorary Jew?

Honorary Jew or are you -- is there a term for -- are you a Kabbalahan?
I am a Kabbalist. Yes, I'd like too. There is definitely a Kabbalistic approach to life or a Kabbalistic point of view, but it's not different than a lot of other teachings. I study Hinduism; I study Buddhism; Taoism.

You believe in a supreme being?
Absolutely. But I also believe that all paths lead to God.

We'll be right back with more of Madonna, more of your phone calls.

Don't go away.

We're pack with Madonna.

Houston, Texas, hello...

[Caller]: Yes, Madonna, I just wanted to ask you, for all that you've done and accomplished, how would you like to be remembered or what legacy would you like to leave behind?
I would like to be remembered as a good mother first and foremost.

Not a bad idea. Lawrence, Kansas, hello.

[Caller]: Hi, Madonna, I was just wondering what do you find to be your biggest challenge in being a single mother?

That's a very good question. A lot of people face it.
My biggest challenge was, you know, really just balancing my life and finding time to, you know, spend enough time with my daughter and really be there for her whenever I -- you know, she needs me and also to make myself happy and my career and continue working and run my businesses, continue -- you know, nurture my friendships, have a relationship, just that juggling, but...

It is a daily juggle isn't it?
Unbelievable.

Are there times you say: I wish there were a man here all the time?
Yes, oh, yes. There are lots of times when I just want to like go: I want to hand the baby off to somebody, you know?

Do you think it's harder to get a man involved when you have a child? You know, the man might say...
No.

In other words, we don't have to throw a male benefit for you, right, to get you -- to get guys interested? You don't need help?
No.

No.
Thank you.

Tampa, Florida, hello.

[Caller]: Hello, Madonna. My question is who were your musical and dance influences when you were growing up?
My musical influences -- wow. They ranged from Karen Carpenter to the Supremes to Led Zeppelin. Those were my musical influences, and...

Dance?
Dance: Martha Graham, Rudolph Nureyev.

Were you a good ballet dancer?
No, I wasn't. I mean, I was a good dancer, but the problem is to be a really good ballet dancer you have to start when you're seven or eight, and I didn't start ballet until I was 12 or 13, which is considered over-the-hill really. I was a good dancer, but...

When you see, like, an old Fred Astaire movie, and he's dancing with Ginger Rogers...
I'm in heaven.

Do you say to yourself: I can do that.
I can do that.

That's your kind of -- you could dance.
Absolutely. No problem

So if Astaire were around now, you'd dance with him.
I'd be dancing on the walls.

We'll be back with more of Madonna on Larry King Live.

Before we take another call, is this the most Grammys you have ever been nominated for?
Definitely.

And the biggest Grammys you're ever -- you won one Grammy years ago, right?
I won a Grammy, but it wasn't really record-related. It was like a long-form video or something, so...

Are you nervous?
I am nervous about performing. I am not nervous about the whole award thing. I mean, I am excited. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Your friend Rose is the MC.
Yes, I'm very happy about that.

You're the opening act, right?
Yes.

Does that give you a little more pressure?
That's a good slot, the opening act. That's good.

They're all watching.
Yes.

All right. When they open up the card, when they open up the envelope, truth -- do you expect to win?
I am not saying. I don't want to jinx myself.

All right. Who is the one you're worried about the most?
Who's my...

If you can't vote for you, who would you vote for, album of the year?
Oh, that's a tough one. Tell me what the nominees are.

I don't know. I don't have...
Probably Lauryn Hill. She's my -- she's my competition, I think. She's amazing.

For record of the year too?
I think so. Yes, yes.

Atlanta, Georgia for Madonna. Hello.

[Caller]: Hello, Madonna. If your daughter Lourdes was old enough, would you allow her to work as an intern in the White House under Bill Clinton.
If she was old enough? Absolutely.

Especially now, right? She would be safe.

Is that what you would figure?
Oh, well. My daughter would not -- my daughter would just never get involved with a married man because I would kill her if she did.

Were you ever involved with married man?
No.

Was that like a hard-and-fast rule?
Never get involved with a man who is involved with someone else. Yes.

You couldn't be second place...
No, no, no, no.

We'll be back with our remaining moments with Madonna on Larry King Live. Don't go away.

We're back on Larry King Live with Madonna.

I know of your active involvement in the AIDS -- fight against AIDS, but you're also into a New York City charity, Opus, right? What is that?
Oh, well, that is an organization that was started by a woman called Roberta Gespari Tavaris -- maybe I said that wrong; did I say that right? -- who is an incredible woman I have gotten to know this past year. She teaches violin to kids in several schools in the inner city, and she has been actively involved in, you know, campaigning to raise money to -- raise money so that kids can enjoy learning about art and music in schools. And unfortunately, because of all the, you know, cutbacks in the public school systems, that's the first thing to go.

And personally, my belief is that music and art is the most important thing to teach a child, so...

Atlanta, Georgia, hello.

[Caller]: Hello. I lost my mother when I was very young. And I'm now raising children. I know that Madonna also lost her mother when she was young. And I am wondering what difference does she think it might have made in how she's now raising her child.

Good question.
What difference it would have made to have had a mother?

Yes, do you think -- and now that you know -- your mother was how old?
She was 31.

You've outlived her by nine years and you had the child. And she had eight children.
Well, she had six. My father remarried.

But I mean, it's hard for me to say how I would be if I was -- if my mother had lived. I am sure I would be very different. And I think to a certain extent I am, you know -- I think that -- I think that people that grow up -- girls that grow up without mothers tend to try even harder to kind of make up for what they didn't have. And I think they make very good parents.

When you lose a parent young -- I've had it happen; my father died -- there's always something, like, missing.
Yes, you walk around with a big hole inside of you...

Yes.
... a feeling of emptiness and longing that, you know, and -- I think a lot of times that's why you become an overachiever, you know, just trying to...

Got to -- got to show...
Yes.

Are you close with brothers and sisters?
Yes.

You're family keeps in touch? There hasn't been separation?
Oh, yes, definitely.

Do you have big brothers?
They all tortured me over the holidays.

Do you have big brothers? Are they still your kind of -- look up to them?
Well, my -- my big brothers, you know, they have had an interesting influence, especially my oldest brother. I mean, he was -- he totally, like, turned me on to the most kind of subversive things when I was a child, you know, like...

Political things.
Well, no. He got -- like, I became a vegetarian because of my oldest brother. He used to, like -- he introduced me to Charles Bukowski and Richard Brautigan.

You know, they were into the whole, you know, LSD drug culture, Maharishi orchestra. You know, I mean, I completely -- I mean, I was really frightened by them but completely enamored of them as well. And they've both lived very adventurous lives.

Still do?
Yes.

[Laughter]

How about your sisters?
I am very close to a couple of my sisters. I am actually close to all of my sisters, particularly my one sister who lives in Los Angeles, and she has children. And she had children before me.

You're a good aunt.
I like to think so.

Is she happily married?
She's happily married. She has an incredible family. And I -- she's a great role model for me even though she's my younger sister.

You win the Grammy -- let's say you win. I predict.
Please God.

Your lips to God, right?
Yes.

You really want to win that, right? By the way, it's no baloney. Why not want to win it?
Why not? Exactly. Of course I want to win.

This year?
Yes, your lips to God.


Are you going to have one?
Yes.

And what about another movie?
Yes, I am going to do a movie in April -- yes, April -- in a couple of months. And then I am going to rehearse to go on tour. And then I'll probably play up until the millennium, New Year's Eve.

What's the movie?
The movie's called "The Next Best Thing" with Rupert Everett. He's my co-star.

Rup. I love him.
Yes. Isn't he great?

I love you too. Thanks for coming.
Thank you so much.

Our guest has been Madonna on this edition of Larry King Live, and I'll be back with a closing word right after this.

It's really retarded because we end up giggling between every take. It's like kissing my brother!
- Madonna [on doing love scenes with Rupert Everett]

This movie questions what parenthood and relationships are all about. What do you think makes a family?
What makes a family is love. The parents don't have to necessarily be biological parents.

So it doesn't have to be the traditional form?
Right. Being related to them by blood doesn't necessarily make a family. It doesn't necessarily make good parents. I was raised by wolves, so I should know!

Oh, so that explains it! Is this a film that's about the time of our society that we live in today?
I think so. I think it's about time. I think that as we hurl ourselves into the millennium, very few people are actually in that sort of traditional family situation as we know it. We were raised to believe that is the only way to have a family. Now there are lots of single parents, lots of step-parents, and lots of gay parents.

There are also a lot of working mothers, like yourself! I saw your daughter on the set. Do you bring her with you wherever you go?
I don't bring her with me. She just comes and visits me throughout the day. Fortunately I live just down the street from here. She comes in the morning and then she comes after her nap or whatever. She's always coming to visit. A lot of the locations have been really close to my house, so it's been really convenient.

You were actually quoted as saying that Rupert was sexy. What makes him so sexy?
First of all, he's gorgeous. And second of all, he's gorgeous! He's tall. He's got a great body. He's well proportioned and has big hands.

You've been friends for a long time. What's the chemistry like working with him having these sexy scenes?
Actually, it's really retarded because we end up giggling between every take. It's like kissing my brother. Ew, yuck! Just kidding. He's a very good kisser.

Tell me about Ricky Martin.
He's awfully cute. He's an ideal boyfriend, too.

You spotted him a long time ago, didn't you?
Actually, we met years and years ago. Centuries ago. When I was making 'Evita' in Buenos Aires, he was staying in my hotel room. (laughs) Oops! I mean my hotel. He was staying in my hotel. There were all of these kids screaming outside of the window and they were screaming my name. Then one day they weren't screaming my name. So I went to look and they were screaming Ricky Martin's name. Actually, when he was staying at the hotel, I got to sneak out of the hotel because they were waiting for him. So we met then and we've kind of been friends since then. There was a period of time when I didn't see him. When I saw him at the Grammy's® I hadn't seen him for about a year. So it was a happy, reuniting moment.

Going back to Rupert. You guys have been friends for so long. Why this movie and why now?
Why not?

Haven't you had chances before?
We're great friends. We've been talking about making a movie for years. We've been talking about doing something together and then we finally found a project that was suited for us.

Then he got involved in the rewrite so it would be tailor-made for both of us. I mean, movies take forever to be made, especially roles that are written for you and only you. Those come once every lifetime.

How many takes did you have of that?
A lot! He even had his brown teeth in. I had to seduce Mike Myers for an entire day. That was an act. It was fun. He was a lot of fun.

Well, what was it like coming back to this? Is it difficult to get back in the groove?
Yes, it is difficult. I've been working on this script for so long, so for me working on this movie started way before the filming. We've been working on the script for a year. I worked with an acting coach for a month before we started rehearsals. We rehearsed for a month. The shoot is ten weeks. So for me, this is just going on and on.

Do you jump into the sex scenes right away?
Sex scenes? There are not sex scenes in this movie. Just a couple of snogging scenes. That's English for kissing, darling. There aren't any sex scenes. This is a PG movie.

Well, do you jump into those snogging scenes right away?
No, they've sort of been dispersed throughout.

Do you look forward to those days when you get to snog?
I'm not answering that question.

Are you different now?
You mean my affinity for children? I think it's easier for me to get a child to stop crying because I've had more practice. I'm better at keeping babies quiet than I used to be.

Do you find yourself more emotional?
I definitely pay more attention to the relationship between parents and children now than I used to. If I see parents and children on sets, I'm definitely into observing their relationship and seeing how people are.

Everybody's different with his or her children. I'm very interested in that now. Much more than I used to be.

Did he have that in mind when he started out?
No, I don't think he intended to be the gay poster child. That's for sure. But I don't think he's become that. I think Rupert is charming and he has this sexual ambiguity so that women love him and men love him. I think he's very lucky. I don't know any girl that doesn't find him gorgeous.

He said that you could go into a gay disco and get any man there to go home with you. How do you do that?
At the risk of sounding really corny, I think it has a lot to do with being really comfortable with my feminine side and my masculine side.

I'm really strong and I'm really vulnerable.

Madonna has a swift, firm handshake and a straight, green gaze and a face that you know as well as your own. The sharp little chin, the heavy lidded eyes, the gap in the teeth: all familiar, but, also, all strange. She looks like Madonna but 300 times better-looking. She looks like Madonna, but smaller.

She walks lightly into the heavily draped Duke of Newcastle suite at Home House, the club-cum-hotel on London's Portman Square, and gasps. She explains she once stayed in this very suite for quite some time. "My baby was in that room" - Lourdes had to snuggle down in the bed the size of a school playground - "and I was in the one behind, and, uh, it was OK, except I don't really like hotel bathrooms. Those towelling dressing gowns…"

Madonna has been looking for a house in London the past six months. It seems longer: since she decided to move in us, our press have moved in on her. Not a Heat or an OK! Or a Sunday Times goes past without some mention of Madge. Where she got her highlights done [Daniel Galvin]; where she goes to eat [San Lorenzo]; to drink [The Sanderson]; to wash the car [everyday garage in north London]. How her boyfriend's really pish [the son of a Lady]; really rough [he has a scar on his face]; really committed [he put his hand on her knee!]; really not [Madonna rushes back from America for relationship summit meeting].

Madonna, by moving in Lock, Stock, And Two Smoking Barrels director Guy Ritchie, has changed from being a remote, fantastic, superstar hologram to a real-life local girl. And because she's so close, we want her even closer.

So, then: up close, 41-year-old Madonna is beautiful, blone, and pregnant, wearing dark blue Maharishi trews, a red vest with a Chinese letter on it and pointy red slippers. She doesn't waste time, not hers, not yours: she arrives without fuss or entourage, gives some easy chit-chat - about the room; about being pregnant ["I'll eat all these olives, I warn you"]; about my accent, surprisingly ["Manchest-oh! Curry!"] - and then sits on the floor between the sofa and coffee table and agrees that we should start.

I'd been warned by several friends who have interviewed Madonna that she's a tricky, unlikeable interviewee: "A cold fish," said one. "Really, really difficult," said another. But her press officer insists that Madonna has relaxed, and offers the fact that she goes to a public gym as an example of her new nonchalance: "The old Madonna would have insisted that it was all set up for her at home."

So: I didn't know what to expect. I certainly didn't expect Madonna to be funny. But she is. Her answers are delivered wryly, with a camp sideways look, or a half-laugh. And I didn't expect her to be easy company. But she's that too.

Madonna's accent has Los Angeles touches [some statements? Any questions?] and an occasional British twang [her vocals are rounder than most Americans]. She speaks rapidly, but pauses a lot. She thinks before, during and after she answers: I'd say she's naturally honest, and precise, but she's well aware that when she speaks, the world listens in. "If I had my druthers, I wouldn't do any interviews," she says at one point. "Because [a] I think it's boring to explain my work to thenth degree and not let anybody figure it out for themselves; and [b] I'm not that interested in blabbing my personal life either."

Her posture has the neutral poise of a dancer; she carries herself with status but not starriness. I've met third-division indie boys whose high-rank body language would eclipse Madonna's economic gestures. Still, she knows how to move. When she leaves, she does so abruptly. She turns her back and she's gone.

But before she does that, we're here to talk about her new album, Music. Madonna's been having trouble with MP3 internet database Napster - The Face downloaded her new single before it even arrived at her record company - so I'm not allowed an album because I might run off a few CDs of my own. "And then people won't buy my record. And how will I pay for my daughter's schooling?" says Madge, with one of her sideway looks. "Anyhow, I didn't want you to get bored."

Before the interview, I go to her press office and hear seven tracks twice over. Two are get-thee-to-the-dancefloor numbers: Music, the cheeky, Daft Punk first single, and the Impressive Instant, a complicated, Chemicals-related, headlong headrush of a track with a disco baseline to challenge Donna Summer. Then there's I Deserve It, Amazing and Don't Tell Me - all spacey, twisted pop songs, and all about lerve.

Amazing's lyrics include: "It's amazing what a boy can say/I cannot stop myself/Seems I love you more than yesterday/I love you and no one else.' If Mr. Ritchie isn't blushing - yes, I know he doesn't look the type - then, ladies, he should be. Finally I hear the catchy silvery What It Feels Like For A Girl - likely to be the second single - and Paradise [Not For Me], which is also on the Mirwais album, Production. Five of the tracks are produced by Mirwais, the 39-year-old French maverick introduced to Madonna by photographer Stephane Sedanoui. Amazing is produced by William Orbit; What It Feels Like For A Girl by Guy Sigsworth [Bjork, Seal]. And they're all ace: poppy, electronic progressions from the musical arena she moved into with Ray of Light.

As we talk, Madonna sips from a bucket-glass of Cabernet and munches her way through an impressive amount of olives and crisps.

Music seems a very positive LP…
Kind of… There are some songs that are tinged with sadness [sideways look]. This record, more than any other records, covers all the areas of my life. I left off partying on Ray of Light. But I'd just had a baby, so my mood was complete, like wonderment of life, and I was incredibly thoughtful and retrospective and intrigued by the mystical aspects of life…

You could connect Ray of Light with Like a Prayer. With you looking for spirituality, looking for a meaning, looking for…
…God. It's not that I don't have to look anymore. Spirituality is still really important to me, but I don't feel so inspired to write songs about it. I mean, I got to church: I go to Church of England, I go to Catholic churches, I got to synagogues, I partake in all religions. In my bones, I'm Catholic, because that's how I was raised, but I am just as intrigued by Judaism as I am by Catholicism.

Between those two albums, there were some long wilderness years. You seemed to be flailing a little.
Sure. It was a combination of a lot of things. My marriage ended, and that left me incredibly cynical about love for a long time, and then also my fame increased and I had a love-hate relationship with that, feeling trapped by it, and feeling angry about it. I was running the gamut of emotions, and I think that creatively I was all over the place.

What mood were you in when you made Music?
To tell you the truth, I didn't know what the mood was. I feel like… an animal that's, like, ready to be sprung from a cage. [Laughing] I've been living a pretty low-key domestic existence… and I miss things. Like, I miss performing, and dancing, and being on the road, that kind of energy. So part of the record is about that. And then the other part is about love. So there's the frivolous side of my life and then there's the - hopefully - non-frivolous side of my life. I usually make a record that's one or the other, and I feel I did both on this one.

Do you sit at home and write songs and then take them into the studio,, or do you work when you're in there?
I keep a pillow book, I jot things down - dreams or poems or things I've read in books. Or kind of diary-like entries, or I'll cut out articles from newspapers, anything that I want to remember. So, I keep this scrapbook, and a lot of times I'll go back and draw from an idea that I've kept for a song. But generally, it's music that kicks me into thinking a certain way or feeling a certain thing, and I rely heavily on the people that I collaborate with to inspire me lyrically. Believe it or not, I'm at my most creative when I'm standing at a microphone and the pressure's on.

Impressive Instant seemed to be about that brilliant point when you're at a club and you see somebody and think…
…I'm going to spend the rest of my life with him! That's why it's called Impressive Instant - it's that moment. That moment where everything goes wooosssh [clapping her hands]! Of course, it helps to have had a couple of cocktails.

What It Feels Like For A Girl - who's speaking at the beginning?
Charlotte Gainsburg [daughter of Serge]. Did you ever see a movie called The Cement Garden? Where she has an affair with her brother? It's a scene where she's saying to her brother "It's OK for girls to dress like boys, to wear shirts and boots and blah blah blah. But for a boy to dress like a girl is degrading, because you think that being a girl is degrading - but secretly you'd love to know what it's like.' I just was like, 'Oh my God, that is so brilliant!'

Is that song addressed to your daughter?
It's to her, but then it's me talking to myself, it's me. It's about me discovering that being an overachiever is not always to your benefit when it comes to relationships and dealing with men, because men are quite intimidated by women who accomplish a lot. There have been so many instances where I've said to myself 'Oh I wish somebody would have said to me, "Be great, but don't be too great because you're going to limit your options…"

Be great and then fall over?
It is a game that all strong women have to play. 'Game' is the wrong word, but the song is really a realization about the politics of the sexes. It's a complaint. It's also about traditional feminine behavior, this kind of thing [curling her hair around her finger and batting her lashes]. I was thinking about girls in advertising, and about how on the outside something can look like pubescent acquiescence but in reality, underneath, it's completely different. And it's not a feminist anthem, but I feel like other women can relate to it. The song's about quite a lot actually, but the more I explain it the more trivial it sounds.

And then there's I Deserve It, Amazing, and Don't' Tell Me, which are all about love, aren't they?
Yes. I Deserve It is a love song. Amazing is a… I-love-you-but-fuck-you song. And Don't Tell Me, that's of the same thing too. They're all I-love-you-but-fuck-you songs. Those are my best songs. I Deserve It, even, it's a love song, but there's something lonely about it. Sonically, the juxtaposition of the acoustic guitar and then that synth siren sound - to me, that strange combination makes it a little bit uncomfortable.

Amazing starts off: "You took a pretty picture and you've smashed it into bits/You took a poison arrow…"
'…and you aimed it at my heart'. My daughter goes around the house singing that bit. I don't know why she picked up on those lines.

What's that one about then?
Well, durr! What do you think it's about?

You're meant to tell me. But I'll tell you what I think. It's about people seeing you as an image, not as a rounded human being, and then if someone comes up and sees past that, then it blows you away.
Yeah… It has to do with shattering an image that you have of somebody, but it's also a song about loving someone that wish you didn't love. Because you know that you're doomed, but you can't stop yourself, because it's amazing.

It's amazing?
You figure out what 'it' means…

When do you think people will listen to the record?
At night. This is night listening. I think it's too moody to listen to during the day.

You could put the first two tracks on before you go out, though.
Actually, the third track is a William Orbit track and is also a really up-tempo, dancey, clubby song as well.

You could put the first three on before you go out…
…and then, after you meet the man of your dreams you come back and listen to I Deserve It and Amazing.

We talk about the prospects of her touring. After she's had her second child, before the end of the year, she'd like to play a few small venues in America and Europe. And then, informs Madge, a proper full-blown tour may be in the cards. 'I feel like I want to, but I know it will such an enormous undertaking: be really intricate… theatre. Lots of work. So I'm having a back-and-forth game in my mind about that, because I'll have two kids…'

I ask her if her second pregnancy has been different from the first: she says it has, simply because the first time around was new and she was utterly overcome by it. For Madonna, this is what made Ray Of Light a spiritual adventure: she was overwhelmed by the experience of having her first child, and it was this personal transcendental event that informed the LP.

Despite her mystical protestations, though, most of us classed Ray Of Light as, essentially, a dance record [her first 1990's Vogue]. And though Madonna may classify it as a 'moody' LP, Music builds on Ray Of Light's legacy. Its pop songs are poppier and its dance tunes proper ripsnorters, unashamed of their disco destination. Like Into The Groove, they celebrate the true brilliance of throwing yourself about like a berk to a tune that sounds like it fell from heaven. Only when you're dancing can you feel this free.

Ray Of Light was made in one fell swoop in Los Angeles and was, according to William Orbit, an intense experience: 'I walked into Madonna World and emerged blinking, five months later.'

Music, though, was made in London, using various producers. It was a bittier process: plus, Madonna hopping back and forth from America during recording. Still, both William Orbit and Mirwais testify to her concentration and dilligence in the studio. She works fast and decisively: 'She wants it to be done quickly, it's cool. I can spend years on a song, it's not really cool,' says Mirwais, while Billy O informs: 'If a track has a good vibe, that gets her off the runway. She doesn't have to give it much thought - either it does or it doesn't. And she's always rehearsed, she doesn't like to be one that holds up the session. She always does her homework.' Madonna, it seems, is a keen user of the dictaphone, and she drives around listening to half-formed tracks in her car.

Music is the first ever Madonna LP made outside America. The first one recorded in the UK. And it shows, in parts. Mirwais says that he and Madonna both 'consider to mix experiemental and commcerical music', and in Paradise, she even tries out a bit of French: 'je suis cassèe' ['I'm broken', but also, in French slang, 'I am out of it']. She tells me that the recordings Serge Gainsbourg made with Birkin and Brigitte Bardot in the Sixties and Seventies 'floated in our subconcious' during the making of this album.

Plus, Impressive Instant, even more so than Music, has that muffled chemical squelch guaranteed to tear up British dancefloors. And lyrics that could have straight froom the UK's National Songbook For A Messy Night Out: 'The universe is full of stars/Nothing out there looks the same/You're the one I've been waiting for/I don't even know your name'. Made in Britain, indeed.

How do you find living in Britain? Do you like it? Or does it get on your nerves?
Both. There are many days when I feel like a stranger in a strange land and I despair, and I miss my friends and I miss certain things that one always misses about the country of their origin. But I love the idea - whether it's in my work or where I live - exploring new frontier, and I like putting myself in strange places and trying to survive and figure things out and gather up an infrastructure. I like knowing that I could figure out a way to live anywhere.

And at least we speak the same language.
Yeah. But just because we speak the same language doesn't mean we're actually that similar. Actually. It's interesting, because one always thinks about England as being this repressed, tradition-based place, where everyone has this uptight prim way of relating to each other. But, in fact, Americans, who are known for being boisterous and straightforward, are puritanical, so it's a strange paradox. Because on the outside it seems like everyone in England is uptight, but actually they're not, they're a bunch of dirty wankers. My God, all you have is naked people in newspapers here! I can't get used to naked Page Three girl, no matter how hard I try… You know, I'm having my cup of coffee and I'm opening a newspaper and.. uh! I mean, tits are everywhere here… but really!

Are you still thinking of buying a house in London?
I'm definitely going to buy a house here, but I can't find the perfect house for me. And I cannot believe how expensive real estate is here, and I refuse to bend over and get fucked up the ass - and I say that to my boyfriend. It's misleading because I could get my mind around buying a house for $6 million in America and here, you get tricked into thinking £6 million is $6 million, and it's just too outrageous and I'm just too middle-class to throw my hard-earned money away like that, it's absurd. So…

You're going to have to move to Birmingham?
No! God, no. I'm just going to bide my time… I have a love/hate relationship with England. I always, always, always fantasized about living in London, and then I started living in London and it wasn't what I thought and I went though a whole, oh fuck this, America is so much nicer…

What let you down about London?
Well, partly, I don't like living in rented houses with other people's things; I miss my things. And partly, it's just a different lifestyle here. At six o'clock everybody goes home here and nobody works on the weekends and people go away for a month in the summer. It's a very old-fashioned lifestyle. It takes a lot longer to get anything done here. In America, my employees work 24 hours, around the clock…

Here, you can't whip them into shape…
Exactly - I can't beat all my employees into submission. I mean, I'm going on a vacation in two days, but it's the second vacation I've had in my life and it's a foreign concept to me. Because I love what I do, and travel so much for my work, so going on holiday seems weird, because when I'm not working I just want to go home and sleep in my bed. So, yeah, it's a different mentality. People are much less work-oriented and ambitious here than they are in America.

But surely the people you meet must be ambitious, for British people.
Half and half. I've met some dilettantes and some bon vivants. I envy those people.

No, you don't.
No, I don't. I don't envy them! I don't - I can't imagine my life not being productive. But there's an appreciation of life here - in all of Europe - that doesn't exist in America, and that part I like.

And by 'life' do you mean 'cultural life'?
Yeah. Culture. Music and art and literature and things like that. Nature.

What's a normal day for you here, then?
It depends on what I'm doing. I get up at the same time every morning because my daughter wakes me up. So, I get up at seven, and she goes off to school and I drink my coffee and look at the naked girls on Page Three. And then I go into my office and I spend hours in front of my computer emailing people. That's how I conduct all my business in California. And then I have yoga practice every morning, with my teacher. I do it to music. All kinds of stuff, lots of traditional Indian ragas and ambient stuff: Nitin Sawhney - I have all of his CDs. Then I meditate at the end in silence. By then, my daughter is usually home from school and I have lunch with her, and then she takes a nap, and then I go off and do my things, whatever they are, for the rest of the day.

Do you have good friends here?
I have a very small handful of good friends here, but I do miss my friends in America because obviously I've known them a lot longer.

Who's your oldest friend?
This girl called Debbie - I knew her in New York, when she was an elevator girl working in Danceteria, before anything every happened to me. She's one of my few friends I have that knew me before I was famous. Because the rest of my really good friends I've had from ten to five years.

Neither of us, as yet, has mentioned the reason for Madonna in Britain in the first place. Though she may have always wanted to live in London, it wasn't until she started seeing Guy Ritchie that she actually made the move from New York. She bought a four-storey mansion in South Kensington in November of last year, only to sell it on a month later - too damp and cold, apparently - trousering a tidy £900,000 profit in the process. Since then, she and Ritchie have been renting; soon after this interview, she snaps up a disgraced tycoon Asil Nadir's old Belgravia residence, a snip at £10 million.

Moving to London is a big step for America's Pop Queen: the father of Lourdes, Carlos Leon, still lives in America, and she's had to relocate her work, including her PA, and make new friends. [She contacts people she considers interesting and arranges to see them, at their house, or for lunch: a nice way to meet stimulating acquaintances, but no substitute for old chums.] And from the way she talks, the move has not been as easy as she thought. All this for a relationship that didn't become official until February this year, when Ritchie took her to the Evening Standard Film Awards. A month later, she announced she was pregnant with his child.

The story goes that she was introduced to Ritchie by Trudi Styler, Sting's wife, at a party. [Styler produced Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels] Madonna took him to the Grammy Awards on February 24, 1999, though at that point, Ritchie was insisting that they were just friends. The relationship was considered on-off one for quite some months: rumors that he stood up to her in an argument, and that she, unused to such treatment, finished with him on the spot. But they bumped into each other again, a few months later, at a party in New York's Moomba bar, and got back together again. Aw.

And now, as well as glamour snaps at premieres, we get to see Madonna and her feller doing ordinary, coupley things: washing the car, going shopping, coming out of the gym, leaving restaurants. Not very Warren Beatty. But sweet enough, and the pair of them seem pretty settled. Madonna is reported to have 'calmed down'. Though Guy's still peppy enough to have a fuck with a fan outside their Kensington home, for which he received a police caution last month.

When you met Guy, was it like in Impressive Instant?
Yeah. I had a whole premonition about my life fast-forward. That's only happened to me once before.

With Sean Penn?
[No answer]

Is it frightening?
No, it's invigorating.

Did you tell Guy how you felt?
Not then, no way. I went into a state of denial because he lived here and I lived in America and wasn't interested in torturing myself by having some long-distance love affair. But it happened anyway. It was just one of those… inexplicable uncontrollable things. But it's hard work having a long-distance relationship and he's really stubborn and so am I, so… it does turn into a bit of a war of the wills.

When you say you had a premonition about what was going to happen, what exactly do you mean?
It's weird. I couldn't even tell you specifically what my thoughts were, it was just… You know when people say 'he turned my head'? My head didn't just turn - my head spun around on my body! Do you know what I mean? In this business, my business, I get to meet all kinds of incredible people, fascinating people, glamorous people and sexy people and highly intellectual people. And you meet them and you go… 'interesting, interesting, interesting'. They're interesting, but not very many people stop you in your tracks. But that's got so much to do with chemistry and timing.

It's very exciting that, meeting someone that makes you go wobbly.
Umhm. Bonkers, wobbly-bonkers.

Where exactly was it you first met him?
Oh, out in the countryside. I was having lunch in the garden of Sting and Trudi's house and he was a guest. This coming Sunday it will be two years since I met him. I remember it, because it was Father's Day in America, and when I was at Trudi's I excused myself from the lunch table because I had to go and call my father. So, yeah, I had no idea he was going to be there. He just appeared on the seat next to me.

Did he make you laugh?
Yes, immediately. He's very funny. He has a great sense of humor.

It must be hard to have a relationship that's so public.
Yeah, but it's only public on one level. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass, but it's inevitable. I mean, he has a sense of humor about it all and so do I. We know what people write about us is not anywhere near the truth.

What's the truth about Guy beating up a fan of yours?
Umm. Oh God, it's so boring to talk about it. Nothing.

He just fell over onto Guy's fists?
He didn't hit him with his hand, he kicked him. This guy had basically been stalking me for the entire time I'd been here. And he's a grown man, he's not like a kid, so it's a bit creepy. All the fans and kids have been getting more and more aggressive, and he was one of the leaders. They don't leave me alone - they ring my doorbell, they order pizzas, they harass my daughter, they stand in front of the car so we can't back in and out of our driveways, they make life impossible. It's just a serious irritant every day, every day, every day. And on this particular day, we arrived in a car, and this guy opened my car door. And so Guy had to get out and tell him what's what. I mean, Guy kept warning him saying, 'If you piss me off, someone's going to get it,' and they sort of defied him. But the thing is, since that happened there has been no one in front of my house. So, thank God for chivalry. I mean, he was just being a protective boyfriend.

If you had to think of five qualities you liked about Guy, what would you pick?
I'm not sure I feel so comfortable talking much about Guy…

He's really good-looking, he's nice to his mum and dad…
Yeah, those two… And he makes me laugh. And he's brilliant and he's gorgeous and he's smart and… (pause) How many is that? I don't want to do any more of he'll get big-headed.

Since you've been here, what's been you best night out?
My best night out… [thinking] Oh dear, I haven't really been out that much. Sorry. I'm pregnant, I can't go out on the piss or anything. And I don't really feel like dancing. I mean, I do, but now I'm a big fat whale and I can't dance, so what's the point? So I haven't really been going out that much. I've had lots of nice evenings out, but not nightclubbing or anything. I haven't been to Ministry of Sound.

Do you think the British are really class-ridden?
Yeah. Everybody always asks you what school you went to here in England. Even middle-class people. It's accents and schools. People use them to put other people in categories, whereas in America, nobody cares what school you went to. Well, it's not a way to pinpoint someone.

You were invited to Highgrove for dinner? What was it like?
It was fun. I got to sit next to Prince Charles. It was boy, girl, boy, girl. I had Michael Parkinson on one side and Prince Charles on the other, and my boyfriend was across the table from me and we waved at each other. Prince Charles was very charming, I must say. He was.

What did you talk about? Art?
We talked art, we talked the entertainment business, we talked about the media, we talked about traveling and jetlag, ha ha. We covered every topic. He asked me how I met Guy. He's quite romantic: he wanted to know kind of what you wanted to know. And he was very down to earth. I didn't find him stiff at all. He's very relaxed at the table, throwing his salad around and stuff. Flinging lettuces willy-nilly. I liked him, he's funny.

Were you late because you had to choose something to wear?
Do you believe everything you read? No, I was late because I wanted to skip the tour of the garden. And also, it's an hour-and-a-half drive, and I'd rather spend time with my daughter and hang out with her, put her to bed…

It must be strange to act naturally and then have a spin put on the top.
I think in the end, when you're famous, people like to narrow you down to a few personality traits. I think I've just become this ambitious, say-whatever's-on-her-mind, intimidating person. And that's part of my personality, but it's certainly not anywhere near the whole thing.

Do you think you'll stay in Britain for a while?
Well, I'm going back to America to have my baby and spend a little bit of time there. I want the same doctor that delivered my daughter to do it. It's familiarity. And my sisters live there, and I want to be around my family and my friends - they can all come and look after me, come and visit me. I miss my house anyways. And I think Guy wants to spend time there, because he's a filmmaker and his film's coming out, and he wants to check out LA for a while, and it's a good time for him to be there. But I'm sure we'll come back. Absolutely.

Did you go to the set of Snatch?
Yeah. It was great watching Guy direct. It's a great aphrodisiac, actually. I just liked him being in charge of everybody. But not in an obvious way, because he's really laid-back on the set. He's in charge, but he's not bossy.

I'm glad that you're in love.
I am too. It only took me 40 years to get it right. Write that down.

Time's up. Tape's off. Madonna uncoils herself from the floor, stretches a little, pads round to the back of the sofa. We talk some more about her pregnancy: she knows what sex her child will be - 'but I'm not going to tell you' - and she and Guy have discussed names - 'but I'm not telling you that either'. She wanders into another room and comes back with a keen young man from her record company, Maverick, who must have turned up during the interview. We chat music, music videos. The video for Madonna's new single has Ali G making an appearance as her driver: he grapples at her breasts in hilarious 'I am the new Benny Hill' fashion.

Madonna has become an Ali G fan when someone gave her his video as a present. 'I hope he break America,' she muses. 'I think he could… Do you like his other characters, the Kazakhstani? I love him…' Last Friday, Madonna went round to Sacha Baron Cohen's parents' house for dinner. 'Sacha's not at all like Ali G,' she says. 'He's a very lovely young man and the apple of his family's eye.'

It's not until she leaves that is strikes me: how much UK culture she has absorbed in so short a time. From Ali G to the Royal Family; from Page Three to Ministry. She buys British art ['Three pieces by an artist called Julie Roberts. She's Welsh. Or Scottish'], she reads books about 'high-society English ladies that threw everything away for love.' Madonna is accused of constantly 'reinventing' herself, as though it's a self-conscious, deliberate act of changing her image. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that she's always developing, changing in reaction to her environment. She likes to learn; she's quick to observe [she mentions both my T-shirt and a particular charm on my charm bracelet]; she's known to consume new music; she's voracious in her appetite for stimulation. Let's hope Britain gives her enough to think about.

Madonna shakes my hand firmly. 'You didn't insult me,' she says, 'too much…' Before she leaves, she makes me say five nice things about my boyfriend….