dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:31:03 AM)
Good morning Debbie. Seems very quiet here this morning. Wonder where the other parents are?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:32:03 AM)
Good morning Dr J

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:32:23 AM)
How are you and the kids this morning?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:32:29 AM)
I was just looking how to post the transcipts

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:32:41 AM)
We are all doing well and yourself?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:32:42 AM)
.oO ( Wonders if the weather in Fla is as nice as in Washington DC area)

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:33:13 AM)
It is absolutely beautiful here!

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:34:10 AM)
I did send out reminders about today's chat on the list and on my email list...hopefully parents will be here soon. =)

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:34:56 AM)
Doing well. Was sort of hard to get up this am. Our public schools are closed becasue of the primary elections. And, my wife has the day off from work to study for a big midterm test tonight. SO, the morning was quiet and it's usually noisy and that sort of gets me up in the am. Not today....just wanted to sleep in.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:35:48 AM)
Im the same way today....Im still adjusting to working nights...I dont usually get to bed til about 3 am.. and up at 7 to get kids ready for school..

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:36:05 AM)
Yes, I did read the reminder on the CAPD list. I did join your email list CAPD From the Heart, but I don't remember an email from you about today....maybe I did get it an skimmed over and deleted it.

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:36:20 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:36:32 AM)
Good Morning Janet

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:36:34 AM)
.oO (WOnders when Debbie gets to sleep? Guess midday!)

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:36:42 AM)
Good morning Janet.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:37:20 AM)
I'm usually napping when the kids head to school...will catch a nap later today

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:37:46 AM)
How are you doing today Janet?

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:38:25 AM)
Fine, thanks. This is the first time I've ever joined a chat, so I'm not sure what I'm doing!

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:39:19 AM)
You are doing just fine!! We are happy you joined us this morning.. Do you have a child with CAPD?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:39:46 AM)
Janet, first you sign that check from your bank payable to me made out for $1,000,000 so I don't have to go on T.V. to try to be a millionaire :-) ;-)

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:40:02 AM)
Very funny, Dr. J.Yes, my daughter, Hayley, is 6 years old. I've

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:40:17 AM)
Just kidding, you're doing fine.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:41:03 AM)
My little girls Sarah who is 8 has CAPD. Are there paticular questions that you have Janet?

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:41:19 AM)
OOPs. I've sent a couple of posts concerning her. Dr. J, you might remember that she is the one with hydrocephalus.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:41:53 AM)
Yes, I was going to say I remember the posts about Hayley, but I thought you were in the middle of typing out some thoughts, questions, whatever.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:42:12 AM)
Dr J I hope we are splitting those checks =)

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:42:44 AM)
Debbie, yes, I'm more than happy to send you $100,000. ;-) :-)

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:42:55 AM)
Right now, I'm hoping to get her official CAPD test results back - it may even be today.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:43:51 AM)
Janet can you tell me what hydrocephalus is?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:44:06 AM)
Janet, my first question to you as the parent is "Why are you HOPING to get her OFFICIAN CAPD test results? Why was she being test for CAPD at all?"

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:44:30 AM)
! That's Official not Offician!

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:45:21 AM)
hydrocephalus - an accumulation of cerebral spinal fluid on her brain, which required a shunt at 4 mos of age to control the drainage

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:45:39 AM)
thank you Janet

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:46:09 AM)
I was hoping to pinpoint the specific areas of dysfunction so that we can customize her remediation to fit her specific deficits.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:46:35 AM)
Janet, what areas or what problems or what behaviors do you see that concern you?

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 8:47:37 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:47:41 AM)
She has difficulty understanding questions unless you speak very slowly, and usually need to repeat or rephrase

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:47:50 AM)
hi ncz..how are you today?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:48:14 AM)
Hi NCZ, how y'all doin'?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:48:51 AM)
Janet, the part about speaking very slowly.....if you repeat exactly what you said, but slower, does she understand better?

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:49:02 AM)
yes,

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 8:49:19 AM)
fine--how y'all doing? I am not originally from Texas by the way (fyi)!!!

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:50:21 AM)
what part of texas ya in now ncz?

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 8:50:44 AM)
Austin

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:51:04 AM)
Janet, you're right in getting her checked out for CAPD since the time or temporal factor is DEFINITELY an indication of some problems in processing the information auditorily. Also, the history of the central nervous system involvment with the hydrcephalus would support that something may be "DIFFERENT" in how her Central Nervous System is developing....so, auditory processes could be impaired. I hope the audiologist provides good insights for you and the schools for Hayley

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:51:31 AM)
use to live in corpus about 7 years ago

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:52:12 AM)
.oO ( Funny, never noticed Debbie "speaking" with a Texan accent) ;-) :-)

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:52:28 AM)
only lived there a short time! =)

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:52:55 AM)
Dr. J, one of the things I get very confused on are the different categories of auditory processing deficits, i.e., integration, decoding - and how each one requires different remediation. Until I get the report, I can't talk to what the audiologist is going to suggest for Hayley. It's certainly not a question of whether she has it, it's just a question of what are her biggest problems areas, and what do we need to do most immediately to address it.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:54:52 AM)
Janet, your last statement is wonderful for me as a professional to hear. All too often, parents will tell me and schools will tell me they want to know if a child has CAPD. As I've been preaching from my soap box for years, the bottom line is not whether the child has CAPD or if the label is useful, but what do we do and what do our test results indicate about how the child processes auditory verbal information.

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:55:25 AM)
One of the things I've been considering for Hayley is Cued Speech, but I'm not sure whether it would be of any benefit at this point, since she has enough language to communicate. I was thinking it might help her language processing issues, i.e. reinforcing correct grammar, not leaving out words, sentence structure. Do you have any thoughts on this?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 8:55:32 AM)
Janet..Dr J and I have been discussing how to help parents understand vaious categories and models of capd....each time we get together we will be discussing different topics to better answer questions like the ones you have

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:55:51 AM)
As for what you will get from the audiologist, I can only hope it's useful. I hope that the audiologist understands the various processes involved in auditory-verbal information processing and can address these different levels, areas, categories, whatever they call it.

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:57:36 AM)
I'll reserve my judgement on the audiologist until I see the report, but I'm not sure she has had enough clinical experience to be able to sort thru all of Hayley's issues.

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 8:59:35 AM)
Hypothetically, if the audiologist comes back and says that she sees Hayley's biggest problem as an integration problem, what are the appropriate types of remediation?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 8:59:35 AM)
This is just a test. Seems my scrolling has stopped.

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 9:00:14 AM)
Dr J, the test worked.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:00:29 AM)
it's scrolliing here...dr j are you getting any messages?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:01:12 AM)
Janet, and NCZ (I hope this topic will be of interest to you), Debbie and I have discussed that perhaps these chats should focus on issues rather than free talk that gets lost....so, Debbie and I both feel the topic of Categories of CAPD would be a good topic and it will help you understand the different approaches to CAPD better.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:01:38 AM)
! Scrolling is fine now. Maybe just some net problem at my end !

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:02:17 AM)
Janet brought up the categories of CAPD, but , I'd like to go back a little into the different approaches and then touch on the categorical approach.

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 9:02:34 AM)
Sounds good.

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:03:41 AM)
I have a question regarding auditory language processing and vestibular disorders. Yesterday I sent a copy of an article to the listserve regarding this issues. It is about 2 pages long-- can I send a copy of it now for discussion???

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:03:51 AM)
Initially, when the first cases were identified with problems processing auditory information, the cases were people with KNOWN neurological lesions.....usually of the brain or cortex and lesions of the part below the brain called the brainstem. Audiologists got involved with medical doctors because of the neurological lesions or disorders and the auditory dysfunctioning.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:05:14 AM)
Thus, the first approach to CAPD and the approach many audiologists hold to today I call the "Site-of-Lesion" approach. In this approach the goal is to identify where in the central auditory nervous system there is disorder and then relate the disorder to other factors that are known about that area of the central auditory nervous system.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:05:17 AM)
ncz...an article that long in there may clog that chat....would you send to my email so that i may look at it?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:05:52 AM)
my email is capdfromtheheart@aol.com

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:06:02 AM)
okay

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 9:06:42 AM)
ncz - fyi, I found the article you sent fascinating, It borught up some suggestions that I'm going to talk to my daughter's SLP about.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:06:44 AM)
For example, if a person had problems with speech-in-noise, it was known that people with lesions (tumors, neurodegenerative disease, blood clots, etc) in the brainstem auditory region. So, a problem with speech-in-noise meant a problem in the brainstem region of the child's brain. And that was the end of the audiologist's involvement.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:07:23 AM)
i haven't gotten through all emails from yesteday yet ncz.but i will read it when you send again...........

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:08:12 AM)
Now, most of the research did NOT support this site of lesion approach with children, and, if a specific area of the brain were suspected to be involved, what would that have to do with remediation? Nothing. So, the neurophysiological approach or site of lesion approach was pushed aside.....except......

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:08:13 AM)
I just sent the article to you. Thanks!

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:08:18 AM)
thank you!

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:09:39 AM)
Many audiologists and professionals in the field of CAPD still discuss the neurophysiological factors and implications of our CAPD tests.....the most prominent are Frank Musiek, James Hall, Jack Katz, Teri James Bellis....etc. Even the categorical approaches are largely based on the neurophysiology.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:11:22 AM)
Using the neurophysiological approach, those who felt the idea of lesions or disorders that should be found on MRI realized the electrophysiological evidence (we use the BAER, ABR, MLR, P-300, etc) terms we've heard and discussed on the CAPD list have typically been normal for children with auditory processing problems.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:11:29 AM)
for a child with a disorder such as Haley....does her capd fall into this type of category since there are the pertaining medical issues?

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 9:11:41 AM)
But the neurophysiological approach - for the most part - doesn't provide info to use for remediation, right?

Janet (ID=35) (Mar 7, 2000 9:13:13 AM)
fyi, Hayley had a BAER when she was 19 mos, and it was normal. I want to have an MLR done, if only for my own information - whether or not it makes a difference in her treatment plan.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:13:19 AM)
In response to what Debbie says, many audiologists would probably approach Hayley from a neurophysiological approach because of the strong central nervous system involvement and the fact that it is known. BUt, if we were to apply that approach, and, say (Janet, this is only make-believe, not to scare you) Hayley has a problem in the brainstem, what would we do about it?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:14:43 AM)
would auditory integration training be beneficial to assist in the further development of the auditory system?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:14:56 AM)
Janet, yes, you already answered my question. The neurophysiologicala approach has only one treatment. Work around the problem by avoiding the situations in which the problems occur, provide technology and tools to work around the problem, and hope the system will compensate on it's own in time and work out the problems......but, the neurophysiological approach would say, the problem is permanent, you can't fix it.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:15:50 AM)
often capd fits into more than one category or should i say crosses categories doesnt it?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:15:59 AM)
ncz...im reading article now

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:17:54 AM)
ncz..the article is very interesting

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:18:02 AM)
Yes, Debbie, an auditory processing problem can involve more than one category. But, according to the neurophysiological model, you take the lowest level in the system and work with that problem as that is where it starts and everything above is a dominoe effect.

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:18:20 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:18:46 AM)
Good Morning

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:18:53 AM)
hi Megan's mom

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:19:04 AM)
The alternative to the neurophysiological approach is that the problem, since we can't find hard evidence on electrophysiological tests and MRIs in most cases, is to say the problem is a lack of maturational development in that area of the central auditory nervous system.

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:19:05 AM)
Hello Debbie

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:19:30 AM)
when does this chat stop

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:19:49 AM)
Dr J is with us til about 10

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:19:53 AM)
But, Janet, I go back to your response, again, so if there's maturational lag or delay, what do we do/ Answer, work around it with modifications and technology, and wait until the system matures.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:19:53 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:20:11 AM)
Sorry, I got disconnected somehow

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:20:15 AM)
welcome back Janet..

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:20:32 AM)
Hi Janet and ncz/Texas/and Dr j

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:20:36 AM)
dr j i think janet mised your post

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:20:46 AM)
I think so, too. Sorry!

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:21:10 AM)
Hi Megan's Mom!

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:21:15 AM)
question, does any of your children complain of severe headaches

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:21:47 AM)
No - not Hayley.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:22:14 AM)
sarah hasnt complained of headaches

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:22:20 AM)
Now, the lack of "What do I do" led to looking at specific categories of CAPD based on the neuophysiological evidence. The best examples are Teri James Bellis' model (her model was developed in conjunction with Jeananne Ferre), Jack Katz' Buffalo Model, and, to some degree, Frank Musiek's model (shared by James Hall and Gail Chermak). These models say there is neurological involvement or maturational problems, but we can do things to help.......

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:22:56 AM)
These models often break down the problem with support from the neurophysiological model into these general categories:

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:22:57 AM)
ncz...fascinating article..im doing to save it to reread again

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:23:20 AM)
I have to take kids to school be right back

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:23:28 AM)
Decoding - related to problems with phonemic awareness, just getting the message, temporal (time) factors

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:23:41 AM)
Not very much. Sometimes in the past my son would whine and complain he had a headache when it came to doing homework which involved reading and writing. He is doing much better now that the teacher has modified his reading and writing assignments.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:24:12 AM)
So, the first category many models identify is decoding......it is usually the first or one of the first areas of CAPD.

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:24:23 AM)
Debbie:

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:25:25 AM)
Debbie--I would like to get Dr. J's opinion on the article as well.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:26:56 AM)
This is what decoding means......When we hear something we extract the auditory FEATURES and identify if two sounds have the same features (we call this discrimination) or they are different, what these features mean in position/time (ex: in the word "CAT" the "c" sound comes before the "a" sound which comes before the "t" sound and the word "CAT" is different from the word "BAT" because of the first sounds being differnt.....additionally, if we took "CAT" and BAT" and took out the last sound and added a "D" instead of a "T" the words would be "CAD" and "BAD" all of these are decoding processes all related to what we often call phonemic awareness.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:28:41 AM)
Thus, if you find a child with a decoding problem the solution is phonemic awareness training according to these models. Now, each model (Bellis, Katz, Musiek) describes how you identify if the problem is decoding or not. The job of the audiollgist, then, is to give the tests and score them according to the norms and apply the results to the model to determine if the problem is or is not a problem in decoding.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:29:12 AM)
Is phonemic awareness specifically an "auditory" function, or is it tied into language processing - i.e., verbal information processing?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:29:59 AM)
In general, when a decoding problem is identified in these models, it is looked at generically. That is, a problem in decoding is a problem in decoding. (I will discuss my model either later or at another time and show that decoding is not a single process but may represent a variety of decoding factors which need to be identified).

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:30:35 AM)
Dr J...if the audiologist gives you the test results and doesnt fit the test results into a paticular category...do you approach each result serpately then in looking for the appropriate remeadiation?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:32:02 AM)
Janet, Phonemic awareness has three factors involved: 1. Auditory (I hear the auditory factors and I recognize the sounds and how sounds differ); 2. Language (I can guess the logical outcome of what I hear based on my knowledge of what words do and do not exist in the language in which I am working....for example, the ng at the beginning of a word exists in Viet Namese names and their langauge, but ng NEVER occurs at the begining of a work in English).

Megan's Mom (ID=37) (Mar 7, 2000 9:32:12 AM)
I am back

Jessie (ID=39) (Mar 7, 2000 9:33:15 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:33:59 AM)
Debbie, you ask if the audiologist does not "fit the results into a particular category".......then, you know the audiologist is not taking a categorical approach. Each of the categorical approaches describes what tests tap into the processes in each category. In the best of the models (I'd bow to Bellis/Ferre's model and to Katz' Buffalo model) have specific test patterns they describe as fitting into the different categories in their models.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:33:59 AM)
hi Jessie...welcome back Megan's mom

Jessie (ID=39) (Mar 7, 2000 9:34:19 AM)
Hi debbie

Jessie (ID=39) (Mar 7, 2000 9:34:52 AM)
I just found out my daughter has CAPD and am trying to learn about it

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:34:58 AM)
is it necessary to fit capd into a category to help the child effectively?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:36:24 AM)
Dr J is explaining the various categories of CAPD today Jessie....hopefully this will help build a solid foundation for you to learn more about capd

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:37:08 AM)
Well, I guess, then, what I'm trying to say is that some professionals (audiologists) follow the neurophysiological model or approach and others follow the categorical approach. In the neuro....approach, the goal is to identify the area of the central auditory nervous system not functioning properly, rule out physical involvement and (if not physical) say it's maturational lag/delay or normal maturational factors .....then.....

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:38:25 AM)
I sent the article to the list yesterday. It is called The Vestibular System and Auditory Language Process by Carol Kranowitz, MA. THANKS

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:38:51 AM)
remediation according to the neuro....model is avoid the problem, work around it, you can't fix it, wait until it matures, the brain may fix itself, the person can use technology to help around the problem. (The basis of this rehabilitative approach is that audiologists come from the education background workng with people who are hard of hearing and deaf. In most cases, you can't fix the hearing loss, so you work around it with hearing aids, lip/speech reading, FM systems, other technology.)

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:40:40 AM)
I got it, now. The remediation for someone who has an abnormal MLR or BAER is to use some type of assistive device - not necessarily engage in treatment to CHANGE the problem.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:41:41 AM)
I meant to say, that would be the recommendation from a neurophsyiological model perspective.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:42:04 AM)
In the categorical model or approaches, yes, Debbie, these audiologists realized that there were categories of CAPD usually something like Decoding, Tolerance or Speech-in-Noise, Fading memory or just memory, Integration or comprehension, and some add comprehension separate from integration, and attention (often related to ADD/ADHD issues).

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:45:16 AM)
Janet, yes. The basis of the model is that an abnormal MLR indicates a problem getting the information through the upper brain stem area to the cortex where the information MUST get to be comprehended (the ultimate goal in information processing is understanding the information = comprehension). So, you eliminate the problems that the person is having. A great example is the MLR or the BAER. If these results are abnormal, the procedure is to identify what is abnormal, what structures are damaaged. If no damage, assume it to be maturational lag or delay, then, avoid difficult listening situations by modifying the environment, using simplier langauge, and use technology to avoid the difficult listening situations.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:45:48 AM)
The idea of not being able to "fix" the problem doesn't seem consistent with all of the recent brain research showing plasticity, that the brain can be re-trained, etc.

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:46:06 AM)
My 11 year old son will be getting a Toteable FM system from the school shortly. Even if it does help him, I doubt that he will want to take it to middle school next year for fear that the other childrent will make fun of him. Also, forgive me but what does MLR and BAER stand for??

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:46:15 AM)
BUT, there is no treatment for these. Usually, the audiologists will say something like, "GO to the SLP and she'll test and find treatment leaving the treatment to language intervention even though the evidence (abnormal MLR) is auditoritly, pre-language based.

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:49:23 AM)
I think the brain can be re-trained but not enough research has been done to show long term effect. For instance, I was thinking about having my son do the Fast Forward program this summer, but will this help temporarily or will this program help him permanently????? Who knows???

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:49:51 AM)
ncz....my daugher in 3rd grade uses a personal FM trainer ..she seems to really like hers...so far no kids have made fun of her yet..she's had it about 5 mos.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 9:49:52 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 9:50:01 AM)
Hi all

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:50:07 AM)
MLR = Mid Latency Response and BAER = Brainstem Auditory Evoked Response. Both are based on the EEG (I hope you all know what that is). About a century ago when the first EEGs were recorded, experimenters noticed a signficant change in specific parts of the brain's EEG's when flashes of light were introduced to the eyes of the person undergoing the EEG. The same was seen for auditory clicks (like auditory flashes). So, by putting electrodes on the scalp, the earlobe or behind the ear and on the forehead, we can see the changes in the EEG's in the brainstem, upper brainstem, and even in the brain or cortex. These are then called the BAER or ABR for the lower brainstem, MLR = upper brainstem and late evoked response and P-200, P-300 for the cortex/brain.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:50:45 AM)
h Marge =)

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:50:59 AM)
hi, Marge. This is Hayley's mom.

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 9:51:15 AM)
Thanks for the info Dr. J.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 9:51:29 AM)
(whispering hi to debbie, janet, and everyone... don't want to interrupt the lecture :-) )

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 9:52:21 AM)
Dr J: is Dr. Hall's book on auditory evoked responses the standard handbook for interpretation?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:52:50 AM)
NCZ, You are absolutely correct. There is a great deal of evidence of retraining of the brain. BUt, what parts of the brain get retrained? And do you retrain on the tasks for which you tested, or other tasks? Many of the categorical approaches, great example is Katz' Buffalo model and the model used by Musiek, Hall, and Chermak all approach retraining by looking at both specific training involving the tests which the child took and failed (I call this the Pass/Fail Approach to remediation) or they use langauge training. Gail Chermak is the only person I have ever heard who (as I have been doing for years) employs language and cognitive training together.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 9:55:03 AM)
Can you give us an example of the kind of language/cognitive training you use?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:55:10 AM)
Marge: No, Dr. Hall's is ONE standard, but the book I think it's Glake or a real neurophysiological audiologist is the standard. Hall's book is probably one of the best relating electrophysiological test results to CAPD since he has done a great deal in that area along with Frank Musiek, but, Musiek's work is still more speech testing and the tonal pattern and digit tests.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 9:55:58 AM)
dr j: thanks, i'll make a note of that... and the Dr. Hall we're speaking of is James W. Hall from UNC, right?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 9:56:51 AM)
Dr J....if you use a program such as FFW that retrains the brain and it's an overall approach to retraining instead of test specific...wouldnt' the overalll approach not only help weak areas but further strenghen already strong areas?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 9:57:41 AM)
Sure, let's consider the area of decoding again. Decoding, according to my definition, is the ability to extract the component auditory parts from a message. We can start with sentences because that is what we first hear. We need to learn and thus teach the child that a sentence is made up of a series of words. Then, when presented with running speech sentences (not written as the problem is auditory), it is our task to determine which parts are separate words and which parts are parts of the same word.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:01:22 AM)
Now, when a child has a decoding problem and CAPD, I'd use a lot of visual tactile kinesthetic information. So, I'd present a sentence and show two different colored sequences. One would have the correct number of items and the other an incorrect number of items. I'd ask which of the two items (colored paper or block sequences) represent the sentence if the each block were a single word. Now, to get the child to do this, the child would have to understand that each block stands for a single word, etc. I usually say to little kids when we work at this level, we are visitors to MARS and this is the way they write, we have to figure out what it means. Notice, the words and word idea entwines the auditory (what you hear) with the language (words) and the decision making, LEARNING THE RULES figuring out the rules undelying is the cognitive.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:02:23 AM)
THis is a brief example of one thing I would do or would recommend for the SLP or resource specialist to do in working on decoding problems in a child. If the problem is phonemic awareness, I'd work at the single word and the sounds in words in a similar manner.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:03:38 AM)
Is this similar to working with manipulatives, i.e., building blocks?

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:03:58 AM)
<~~having trouble with scrren scrolling now

ncz/Texas (ID=36) (Mar 7, 2000 10:04:47 AM)
Bye!! and Thanks.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:04:48 AM)
Debbie asked about Fast ForWord often abbreviated FFWD. FFWD does NOT retrain the brain only. It IS specific to practice for specific tests. For example, Block Commander is almost an identical copy of the Token Test for Children which is usually one of the criteria used to see if a child is appropriate for FFWD. The tests used for candidacy should NOT have any factors related to the materials being used in treatment. Why? All you test and retest, if the tests and practice materials are the same or similar, is you are training the child to pass the test.

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:05:24 AM)
bye ncz

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:05:55 AM)
janet: it reminds me somewhat of the materials they use in Montessori classrooms: sandpaper letters, moveable alphabet, the grammar symbols. But there they are working from individual sounds to sound blends to words. Dr J is working down from sentences. Also, Montessori's progression is for initial teaching of a child. Not rehab for a child who is having trouble

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:06:44 AM)
janet, yes, I use building blocks of differnt colors when I do this. This is also the approach taken in LiPS and The Phonemic Awareness Kit by LinguaSystems. WIthout the blocks, it is also parts of the Earobics program and FFWD program, but these programs do not provide the manipulatives and the cognitive strategies. That is, they provide practice materials, only, and expect you the child to develop your own strategies to how you would approach the problem.

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:07:45 AM)
Marge - FYI, I worked in a special program for about 10 years that employed a very Montesorri approach to special ed with their kids. SO, I would agree with you and how that worked for me. Also, I used the materials I had at the time.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:08:23 AM)
how interesting, dr J! I have been very pleased with the way Montessori has worked out for my kids

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:08:47 AM)
I don't want to stop the chat, but I have to go. I have to prepare for my class at 10:30 , although my students would be happier if I'd not show up. Today is their midterm ;-) I have to be sure it read OK and I have to print it and make the copies for the students.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:09:00 AM)
have a happy midterm, smle

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:09:02 AM)
thank you dr j for your time

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:09:04 AM)
Thanks so much!

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:09:09 AM)
yes, thanks for coming!

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:09:42 AM)
wish your students good luck (hoping dr j dont give midterms here =) )

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:09:48 AM)
hahaha!!!

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:10:11 AM)
Marge, We can talk on this and a new approach they are using in my youngest's preschool program called the Reggio approach. But, I have to go. I hope to see you all in two weeks. Next week I'll be away in CHicago at the Audiology convention......partying with my students and presenting:-0 :-0 ;-0

Jessie (ID=39) (Mar 7, 2000 10:10:15 AM)
Thanks dr j

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:10:18 AM)
Debbie - I missed whether Dr. J responded to my question about Cued Speech. Did he say anything?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:10:20 AM)
See you all soon on CAPD.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:10:31 AM)
ok!

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:10:55 AM)
hmm, my brother lives in chicago... wonder what would happen if I showed up at the audiology convention????

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:11:06 AM)
janet i do not remember seeing a response to that....are you on this listserve?

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:11:17 AM)
yes.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:11:22 AM)
janet: i might have some info on cued speech... what is the question?

dr.j (ID=34) (Mar 7, 2000 10:12:41 AM)
.oO (Dr. J would ask to have lunch or dinner with you. His presentation on CAPD is on What CAPD Tests Really Tell US? It's a short 1 hour (only) session one afternoon, can't remember which since I'm also presented another program on counseling

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:13:27 AM)
if you asked a questiion that dr j missed you may want to send to list..or marge may be able to help you..shes ver knowledgeable =)

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:13:28 AM)
hmmm wonder if i can take a raincheck on the dinner invitation??

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:13:49 AM)
Marge if icould make the convention i'd be there in a heartbeat!!

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:13:53 AM)
I was wondering whether it would be of any benefit to try Hayley with it. She's got enough language to communicate, but I thought it might still help in language development, i.e., structuring correct grammatical words and sentences.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:13:56 AM)
one of the names in my address book is for a cued speech teacher

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:14:17 AM)
well, cued speech is a lipreading aid, primarily

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:14:33 AM)
it makes the sounds that are not visible on the lips, visible

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:14:52 AM)
there is a body of research that shows truly excellent results for teaching English to the deaf using CS

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:15:04 AM)
i am going to have to skip out of here also...i hope to see you all at thursdy night's parent chat..

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:15:14 AM)
but CS doesn't in itself teach grammar rules

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:15:15 AM)
There is a cued speech teacher close to me, but she can't really address whether or not it is appropriate for Hayley.

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:15:31 AM)
Bye, Debbie. Thanks.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:15:39 AM)
certainly, learning cued speech is not going to be harmful to anyone

Jessie (ID=39) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:00 AM)
I gotta go too. Bye all

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:01 AM)
so if it seems like it's interesting for you, sort of as a hobby, go for it!

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:04 AM)
bye everyone....if anyone has comments or suggestions on todays chat...please email me at capdfromtheheart@aol.com

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:06 AM)
is my advice

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:10 AM)
bye debbie

debbie (ID=33) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:18 AM)
bye bye

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:34 AM)
i don't know how long you'd have to try CS before you'd notice a difference

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:43 AM)
or a benefit

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:16:49 AM)
Except in Hayley's situation, I don't know whether the visual processing component might just confuse her more. It's a fairly considerable investment of time, so I'm not sure whether it's the direction to go.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:17:12 AM)
have you tried fingerspelling with her?

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:17:30 AM)
No, can you explain what that is?

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:17:31 AM)
you can learn fingerspelling in an afternoon, of course it takes a lot longer than that to become proficient

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:17:38 AM)
the abc's using your fingers

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:17:52 AM)
you might see illustrations for it in a dictionary or encyclopedia

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:17:58 AM)
or any basic sign book

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:18:23 AM)
hayley might enjoy sending "secret messages" using fingerspelling

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:18:44 AM)
i think there are even some websites that show fingerspelled letters

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:18:47 AM)
Is it used for conversational purposes, or to reinforce spelling lessons?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:18:52 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:18:58 AM)
wb megan's mom

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:19:00 AM)
Hello

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:19:07 AM)
ive been stuck for a while

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:19:19 AM)
janet: it can be used for both. really awkward for conversations. really useful for reinforcing spelling lessons.

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:19:31 AM)
glad you're unstuck now, megan's mom

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:19:57 AM)
That might be something to consider. Thanks. I better go now, too. Talk to you later.

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:19:57 AM)
i'll tell u

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:20:12 AM)
Bye Janet

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:20:15 AM)
i even know teachers who use fingerspelling

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:20:19 AM)
in the regular classroom

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:20:24 AM)
to help reinforce spelling words

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:20:39 AM)
bye janet

Janet (ID=38) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:04 AM)
Bye. I'll investigate the finger spelling as a possibility.

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:11 AM)
I'm from Illinois where are u from

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:15 AM)
georgia

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:30 AM)
got some relatives in Atlanta

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:45 AM)
small world!

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:52 AM)
i'm pretty new at this

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:21:55 AM)
i have a brother in illinois

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:0022:0 AM)
what part

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:22:09 AM)
don't worry about being new; it's always overwhelming at first

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:22:12 AM)
chicago area

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:22:16 AM)
i live in Alton, 15 mins from St Louis MO

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:22:23 AM)
oh about 6 hrs away then

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:22:33 AM)
its too too much actually

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:22:43 AM)
yes, i think i remember you & another mom discussing southern illinois & gointg to st louis for testing or something

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:03 AM)
yeah, looooong drive from southern illinois to chicago. i've done it several times, enroute to milwaukee

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:05 AM)
the special ed teacher just handed me the test in December and said this is whats wrong

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:09 AM)
yes Marge thats right

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:13 AM)
(listening)

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:31 AM)
oh, you mean sped teacher said CAPD is the problem? have you seen the audiologist yet?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:31 AM)
MJ just lives 30 mins away

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:23:45 AM)
yeah, that' swho i was thinking of

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:09 AM)
yes she has been tested and thats the test she gave me and now I have made an appointment for Friday with a child psychologist

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:21 AM)
what did the aud report say?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:26 AM)
its nerve racking

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:33 AM)
shows CAPD

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:43 AM)
what tests did they do?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:46 AM)
but she doesn't have a hearing impairment

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:24:57 AM)
can't tell u what tests

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:25:08 AM)
doesn't show the name of them

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:25:21 AM)
bummer... what does the report say about her pure tone average?

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:25:36 AM)
is there a little graph paper looking box, with two curves on it?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:25:37 AM)
they have been no help and i see megan getting depressed more and more every day

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:26:20 AM)
that is sooooo hard

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:26:24 AM)
the test shows Central Auditory Processing Testing

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:27:16 AM)
the kids are making fun of her and not playing with her

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:27:20 AM)
i'm trying to figure out what sort of peripheral hearing tests they did before they did the central testing

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:27:42 AM)
the teacher MUST put a halt to the teasing... no reason these days why that sort of behavior simply should not be tolerated

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:28:21 AM)
its on the playground

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:28:37 AM)
the teachers are responsible fo rwhat happens on the playground too

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:29:20 AM)
I am a leader of a girl scout troop also and the co leader told me yesterday that Megan is a tattletail too much and her actions has to stop

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:29:35 AM)
let the teachers know that your daughter is being tested for auditory problems (no need ot be specific at this point) and that auditory disabilities make large-group socializing really hard

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:29:56 AM)
sometimes she won't even talk to me

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:30:00 AM)
yes, i saw your other post about being a scout leader... sounds like megan wants a lot of atention

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:30:41 AM)
it will be interesting to learn what the psyc has to say about this

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:30:49 AM)
i'm gonna have to get ut of scouts, and the reason I got into it was to help her

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:31:08 AM)
Am I going to the right kind od doctor

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:31:32 AM)
of sorry

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:31:34 AM)
i know it's hard to reach a decision like that, leaving scouts

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:31:47 AM)
no problem; hard to be a perfect speller on chat...

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:32:14 AM)
well, apsychologist might be able to unravel the complex web of behaviors you've mentioned

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:32:31 AM)
i hope i get an answer

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:32:58 AM)
well, if not answers, at least some insight into how things might be structured at home & school to make things better for megan

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:33:15 AM)
the test her doesn't have a name but it does have numbers like

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:33:29 AM)
db hl .125khz

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:33:41 AM)
be sure that the psyc has copies of ALL the tests givent to your daughter

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:33:57 AM)
oh, that's good. that is the threshold at 125 Hz.. what was the dB for that?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:34:02 AM)
any other things that the doctor needs

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:34:13 AM)
nothing on the 125

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:34:37 AM)
.259 left ear 0 and right 15

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:34:42 AM)
.250 sorry

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:35:27 AM)
the psych is not a doctor, but he will need info about your home life: are you married? is it a secure home? how many hours a day is the family together? all that social emotional stuff

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:35:43 AM)
hmm, that is quite a difference between her ears at 250

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:35:52 AM)
.500 L-15 R-10 1 L-15 R-15 2 L-0 R-0 4 L-0 R-0 8 L-18 R-10

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:36:37 AM)
that is just under the wire for borderline hearin gloss

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:37:04 AM)
where is the hearing loss showing

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:37:09 AM)
as dr j has posted the last couple of days, if the average loss at 500, 1000, and 2000 is 15 or more, that is considered hearing loss

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:37:34 AM)
all those 15's!

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:37:47 AM)
ok i see

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:38:23 AM)
mind you, this is not some kind of killer loss, but it probably interferes with her ability to distinguish vowels

Halston (ID=42) (Mar 7, 2000 10:38:37 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:38:40 AM)
hi halston

Halston (ID=42) (Mar 7, 2000 10:39:04 AM)
Good morning Marge thisd is rose

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:39:07 AM)
in other words, this looks like it's pretty close to the kind of loss that could affect her in the classroom

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:39:14 AM)
it also says: Megan was seen for hearing testing as a preliminary to central auditory processing testing where normal hearing is prerequisite. Today both speech and puretones were within normal limits

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:39:16 AM)
ROSE!!! so good to "see" you

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:39:23 AM)
Hello Halston

Halston (ID=42) (Mar 7, 2000 10:40:19 AM)
Good morning all, Marge funny thing I sent all Morgan's test results to Dr Berlin he call ed and said I word CAPD!!

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:40:23 AM)
i am not sure that most central auditory tests are normed for the kinds of thresholds we see here... the audiologist would have to pulll a lot of papers to check for the norms for each test

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:40:56 AM)
halston: really? did he recommend electrophysiological tests?

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:41:56 AM)
well ladies i must go get ready to go to school today i have a meeting with the teacher

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:41:57 AM)
megan's mom: for test-norming purposes, sometimes they use a 20 db puretone average to define normal, sometimes a 10 dB average... there is some variablitiy there

Halston (ID=42) (Mar 0007, 2000 10:41:59 AM)
He said it would be fine and he would recomend more tests but he is very sure she has a really clear case of CAPD

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:42:01 AM)
have a nice day

Marge (ID=40) (Mar 7, 2000 10:42:01 AM)
bye megan's mom

Megan's Mom (ID=41) (Mar 7, 2000 10:42:14 AM)
bye

Halston (ID=42) (Mar 7, 2000 10:42:56 AM)
Marge what time is it there?

Marge (ID=43) (Mar 7, 2000 10:46:50 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Kevin (ID=44) (Mar 7, 2000 10:59:01 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

Rose (ID=45) (Mar 7, 2000 11:18:06 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)

debbie (ID=46) (Mar 7, 2000 1:12:09 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)