debbie (ID=33) (Aug 15, 2000 7:49:13 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:20:30 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:28:43 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:29:12 AM)
hi Deb How are you this morning?
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:30:02 AM)
Good, thank you. My first time here. Soooooo many questions!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:30:25 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:30:56 AM)
Good morning Debbie. How are you this morning? Did you just get in?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:30:58 AM)
Hopefully we'll be able to answer all of them for you!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:06 AM)
Hi Dr. J...lots of ?'s for you!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:13 AM)
Good morning Dr J. I just got here a few minutes ago
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:30 AM)
Debbie~ are you from the Gainesville area?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:41 AM)
I am from Jacksonville
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:47 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:51 AM)
Great Deb......AHHHHHHHHHH a Deb and a Debbie...........But, easy to keep straight. Deb smiles a lot while debbie has this "dumb" look on her face ;-)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:52 AM)
I'm from Ocala....
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:53 AM)
Good morning Trina!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:31:57 AM)
Good morning Tina.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:32:05 AM)
hey now dr j....*LOL*
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:32:08 AM)
Good morning
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:32:23 AM)
Hi Trina...
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:32:43 AM)
Hello
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:32:46 AM)
Trina is one of my good friends from work who is helping me put together the referral program
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:32:58 AM)
Deb , where are you from?
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:33:08 AM)
Deb and Debbie and Tina, maybe let's just chat a bit for about 10 minutes while others are logging in (and gulping down coffee to be sure they are awake ;-) ) and then, about 8:40 (eastern time) we can address specific questions. Sound ok with y'all?
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:33:17 AM)
I've read some of the archives....founf lots of info...thanks!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:33:35 AM)
Yep, sounds good to me.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:33:38 AM)
sounds good to me this morning.... The girls are off to school!!
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:33:43 AM)
sounds great
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:33:59 AM)
Sorry, TRina not Tina. But, good morning to you and welcome. glad you could join.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:34:30 AM)
Debbie, has school started for them TODAY or yesterday? Or was yesterday just a teacher orientation day in your schools?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:00 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:07 AM)
Debbie~I will probably be sending you an e-mail...have lots of?'s for you....like Dr.s in the area, etc.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:08 AM)
Yesterday was teacher orientation. Today was the first day of school
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:15 AM)
it's no problem. i hadn't even noticed. and good morning to you. I feel like I already know you just from listening to Debbie :)
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:25 AM)
Good morning LaurieC
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:40 AM)
Deb.....that's no problem at all....what city are you in?
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:44 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:51 AM)
Good Morning everyone!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:53 AM)
good morning mlmom!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:35:58 AM)
good morning Laurie C!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:36:08 AM)
Debbie~I'm in Ocala.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:36:19 AM)
Good Morning :-)
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:36:45 AM)
Good morning Lauriec and mlmom!
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:36:46 AM)
Did everyone just now arrive?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:36:48 AM)
I had Sarah recently retested at the U of F in Gainesville, if you email me I can send you information and let you know who I saw
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:37:03 AM)
just a few minutes ago mlmom
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:37:08 AM)
Thanks Debbie, I will.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:37:26 AM)
Good morning mlmom
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:37:35 AM)
Hi mlmom...
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:37:42 AM)
Dr j, Trina is one of my friends who keeps me motivated and on track! She's a brave soul!
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:38:00 AM)
Hi Dr. J and Deb and Laurie and Trina
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:38:05 AM)
Dr. J........did you see the recent ABC news article where Frank Musiek calls APD the next "sleeping giant"?
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:38:29 AM)
I love that article, Laurie!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:38:35 AM)
Trina, if you're helping Debbie, I give you a lot of credit. My hat's off to you. Debbie has done such great things with the Chat, her website and now the Non-Profit! !!!
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:38:56 AM)
Yes Debbie........your are doing a GREAT job!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:39:00 AM)
Lauire, I saw that article. Hopefully very soon that sleeping giant is will be awoken!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:39:14 AM)
What's the non-profit?
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:39:26 AM)
LaurieC No, is it something in print that is available to review? I'd love to see it. And, wow, it's really something that the media is looking at APD at all.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:39:31 AM)
I am copying the article for my school counselor and all the SLPs.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:39:52 AM)
Deb, right now there is a group of us that is working to start the National Coalition on Auditory Processing Disorders, Inc.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:39:55 AM)
It was on ABCnew.com........I think the Health section.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:05 AM)
I am copying the article for my school's team, too.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:11 AM)
I can go get the link and post it. I have it saved. Just a sec
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:11 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:24 AM)
Thanks, but she is also there for me. We really look out for each other. When you see one you see the other usually.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:32 AM)
Debbie~oh...I had seen something last night on it...thanks.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:33 AM)
Could someone post the reference to the article or send me the article or scan it and send it as an attachment to all on the CAPD list. I think the parents would love that info for the POWER they may need to legitamize CAPD or APD in school meetings.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:40:35 AM)
Hi Dorien
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:41:01 AM)
Yes, I'd love to see the article as well.....
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:41:07 AM)
hi mimom
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:41:12 AM)
Ut oh.........I meant abcnews.com ....NOT abcnew.com.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:41:46 AM)
Hi Dorien
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:42:03 AM)
Hi Deb
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:42:05 AM)
.oO(I just made a note to check out the ABCNews.com website and get the article and post info on it on the CAPD lists.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:42:20 AM)
Go to http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/CAPD.html
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:42:33 AM)
thank you mlmom
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:42:47 AM)
Good morning Dorien
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:02 AM)
Hi how are you
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:04 AM)
Hi Dorien
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:13 AM)
Thanks mlmom....
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:13 AM)
Good morning mlmom
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:16 AM)
Hi
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:46 AM)
Hi Dorien. Dr. J.........this brings up the question of CAPD vs APD. What is the difference? Is it the approach?
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:43:48 AM)
mlmom - thanks for the website. I'll check it out later.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:13 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:13 AM)
By the way.......is anyone on here as nervous as me about school starting?
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:20 AM)
Good morning Debbie
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:31 AM)
good morning all
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:44 AM)
Already has for us...like the routine back!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:47 AM)
Good question LaurieC on CAPD and APD. Here's the latest on it - why latest, only because at two recent conference/meetings a group of specialists in the area of CAPD held a caucaus (of themselves) and they decided that officially we should drop the "C" as confusing and leave it as APD.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:45:48 AM)
Good morning Marge.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:12 AM)
Hi Marge.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:13 AM)
good morning Marge!
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:24 AM)
Debbie...You'll be happy to know that i should complete the list of Audiologist/pathologist hopefully by this week and I'll contact them to verify that all info is complete before i post it.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:27 AM)
My girls started school today
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:27 AM)
dr j: is that because they're finding that some peripheral hearing stuff can cause auditory processing problems without any central involvement?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:28 AM)
I thought so Dr. J. I remember a thread about this on the list several mos ago.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:46:46 AM)
Trina you are wonderful!!
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:47:54 AM)
debbie did you get the name of the audiologest I sent you
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:47:57 AM)
Originally, auditory processing disorder (APD) and CAPD were interchangable. Most audiologists used CAPD because it reflected their generic belief and approach that the problem is in the central auditory pathways (no proof really to support this). SLP's and others used APD to distinguish that what they are talking about are disorders in processing auditory information. So, the general feeling is to leave it as Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) and remove the C = Central since the problem is NOT KNOWS to involve or be due to disorders of the central auditory pathways.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:48:11 AM)
Your all welcome. I originally found it due to someone on the CAPD list mentioning it. Sorry, I'm getting behind here.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:48:21 AM)
Hi Marge
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:49:18 AM)
yes i did...right now Trina is compling the list for me. As soon as we receive back the Article of Incorporation for the nonprofit , I will work on having the new website up and running with the referral program in place.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:49:49 AM)
Debbie, is the Coalition banner at the top here referring to your non-profit?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:50:05 AM)
Thanks again Debbie and Trina for this work you are doing.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:50:43 AM)
Dr. J........you have experience as an educational audiologist, right?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:50:44 AM)
dr j: that seems prudent... i saw an abstract by Moore & Oxenham, in the Jan 1998 issue of Psychological Review called "Psycoacoustic consequences of compression in the peripharl auditroy system." They state that if basilar membrane response becomes more linear, that this accounds for loudness recruitment, reduced temporal resolution, and reduced temporal integration. I sort of took it as a veiled plea to cognitive neuroscientists to not forget the physiology & mechanics (if you will) of hearing before they draw conclusions re: central involvement.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:51:11 AM)
mlmom yes it is. we are hoping to be official within the next few weeks. I was playing with the banners and wanted to put something up for now
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:51:20 AM)
Debbie: I'll get you my list of audiologists after we finish up on chat today :-)
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:51:29 AM)
debbie: or should i email trina directly??
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:52:07 AM)
please email them to me and then i will forward on to trina. Im saving and printing hard copies for her
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:52:21 AM)
debbie: will do... thanks for all your work on this!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:52:35 AM)
No, Marge. It's because most non-audiologists and some audiologists argue that there is no evidence that the problems in processing auditory information in most children and even adults is NOT due to disorders of the central auditory pathways. Frank Musiek's own writings and presentations discuss abnormal brain cells in the temporal cortex and frontal lobes of the brain OUTSIDE the auditory regions of the brain that may be blocking or interfering with the normal transference of neural information originating from the auditory cortex (known as Heschl's gyrus). Long ago Jack Katz called this the non-auditory receptive areas of the brain. So, the central = central auditory pathways does not hold water based on Katz' model and even on Frank Musiek's model.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:52:44 AM)
Oh, that's great news. I take it you decided not to use National Foundation for APD as the name. I thought I had read that somewhere. Coalition is good though.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 8:54:07 AM)
mlmom we did decide to change the name so that we could incorporate the CAPD but still focus on APD to go with the new concensus of audiologists. We also wanted to present ourself as a cohesive group of parents and professionals working together. So many people are contributing to forming the NCAPD
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 8:54:18 AM)
Dr.j why is it so hare to prove that this a disorder
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:54:44 AM)
dr j: thanks for clarifying... that is an important distinction.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:54:51 AM)
That sounds really good. Thanks for all your work everyone.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:55:16 AM)
Laurie, just catching up on the chat. Yes, I have experience as an educational audiologist.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:56:42 AM)
Marge, you are correct. And, as for this thread, I can't hold two conversations at a time, so, could you hold that thought while I respond to Laurie. Then, I'll get back on the peripheral involvement in Central auditory system functioning.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 8:56:55 AM)
dr j: ok, no problem :-)
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 8:56:57 AM)
Everyone, I am Marie (MariEvelina from the CAPD list). I want to thank EVERYONE. I have received a lot of really helpful information.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:57:23 AM)
Oh......hi Marie. Glad to know who you were.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 8:57:51 AM)
Laurie did you have a question related to asking me if I had experience as an Ed. Aud.?
Trina (ID=37) (Aug 15, 2000 8:57:53 AM)
Laurie.....it's my pleasure (sorry it took me so long but my son needed me for a sec)
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:58:22 AM)
Dr. J......since you have experience with the education setting, when you are observing a child with attention issues...how do you distinguish APD from ADD.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 8:58:59 AM)
Sorry I'm so slow gathering my thoughts.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:00:30 AM)
Laurie, in observing a child, the things I look for as indications of possible AUDITORY based distractibility or AUDITORY based attention problems is how the child responds to auditory stimuli vs. how the child responds to visual (or non-auditory stimuli) and how the child regulates his/her own behaviors. Children with ADD have a primary problem in self regulation of attention related behaviors. But, children with auditory attentional problems have normal self regulation abilities but are distracted by auditory stimuli. Here's ONE example.....
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:01:04 AM)
I have a remaining question that I neglected to ask the audiologist when I was speaking with her. Maybe someone here can help.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:02:06 AM)
*******************For those that are new in the chat, if you are having trouble keeping up...please dont worry, I will be posting this transcript yet today in the archives that can be accessed from the entry to the chat.*********************
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:02:53 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:02:54 AM)
go ahead mlmom
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:02:57 AM)
hi K
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:03:01 AM)
welcome K's mom
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:03:09 AM)
If I can see a child working in a group or classroom and it is appropriate to do so here's some of the things I do.....1) I watch the child work and stand within the peripheral vision of the child. The child with and Auditory attnetion problem may look at me but will usually continue with the work at his/her desk. Why, I'm standing there quietly and not interfering with the child. Now, the child with ADD may react to me, and may require me or some other adult to constantly focus the child back to the task at hand. Furthermore, it is almost like "He's there and I want to attend to that" which is a visual distraction and not an auditory distraction.......
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:03:10 AM)
oops hi K's mom.....Happy you could join us this morning!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:03:13 AM)
Hi K.......
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:03:23 AM)
So if a child's problems are more APD based, they will be more prone to settle down and do their task if they get a lot of visual cues, versus the ADD child who couldn't regulate his attention even then, right?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:03:42 AM)
hi- it took me a minute to figure out how to write back -sorry!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:04:12 AM)
That's ok K's mom....it is a bit confusing at first.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:06:00 AM)
going with what dr. j just said- my daughter's teachers said that if not in a small group she is distractable and they feel it's because she isn't processing the concepts, etc. that the teacher is presenting
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:06:13 AM)
One part of the report reads "Some of the behaviors noted with students with such a central auditory processing profile are...problems with the retention of information presented orally, not the recall."
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:06:33 AM)
Dr. J....do you find there are quite a few kids on Ritalin w/ APD? My son is, for focusing/attention issues.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:07:02 AM)
2) WHile the child is working I start to make noise, maybe humming. The child with an auditory distractibility problem will usually be bothered by the humming even if it is not too loud. The child with ADD will be distracted too, but, I can usually stop the humming and watch the CAPD kid get back to work while the ADD kids stays distracted b/c I am still there. Just some observations, not conclusive.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:07:39 AM)
I am wondering if this means that my daughter can repeat back instructions but then not remember them a few minutes later.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:08:29 AM)
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debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:08:32 AM)
mlmom does your daughter recall information given to her visually ok?
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:08:54 AM)
So sorry! Lauren was playing!
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:09:00 AM)
mlmom: gesundheit!
Dorien (ID=40) (Aug 15, 2000 9:09:02 AM)
My daughter can do her class work and when it is time to do home work she can not do it
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:09:15 AM)
Deb, yes. When I was in the NewYork City area before coming to Washington, DC there were a couple of MDs who were placing kids on medication because of attentional issues without differentially diagnosing auditory attention, visual attention, distractibility or ADD issues, and they are all different. Many did NOT really improve in academic performance on the mediation. BUt, some with real evidence of ADD and sustained attention problems and self-regulating attentional problems really did amazingly well on medication.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:09:38 AM)
Marie..my son has recall memory issues as well as organization issues I think.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:10:12 AM)
dr j: that's been my pediatrician's opinion too: the kids who need ritalin, really do well with it. but for sure ritalin is not a quick fix for any behavior a teacher finds objectionable.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:10:27 AM)
Debbie, my daughter has very good visual perception skills.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:10:48 AM)
Thanks Dr.J....
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:11:05 AM)
One of the accomodations in her IEP last year was to have her repeat things back.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:11:19 AM)
Yes.....thanks Dr. J for explaining this. It makes sense to me.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:11:53 AM)
Reading back on what K said about her daughter. A great example of a child who may have APD vs. one who may have ADD or ADHD is that the child with ADD/ADHD can and will have problems with SELF motivated attention. That is, the child with ADD and ADHD doesn't need to be distracted, but just distracts him/herself. The child with possible auditory attentional problems NEEDS some auditory stimuli to be distracted. However, K there is the third type of child and .......
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:11:54 AM)
so her problem does not sound like it would be in recalling information but in retaining verbal information
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:12:13 AM)
my daughter has poor visual percep. scores- does anyone believe that this could be partially because she didn't understand what was being asked of her at times during the testing? K. is often confused
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:13:27 AM)
The best example is ANYONE on this chat who has ever learned a foreign language. Having taken one semester or one course or one year of the language, you are now in the country where ONLY that language is spoken. You are emersed in a group discussion in which everyone BUT YOU is talking using that foreign language. You try to follow, you try to keep up.....but you can't. So what do you do?
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:13:29 AM)
Her spec. ed. teacher said that she did this and Lauren would repeat back, but when the teacher returned to see how she did, Lauren would have little or nothing on her paper and would say she she didn't know what she was supposed to do.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:13:34 AM)
K's mom..if a child is given a test orally and the child has APD, then the APD can influence the outcomeof the other tests.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:13:37 AM)
Dr. J......that is a good way to put it. The ADD child doing the self-distraction thing vs the APD child NEEDING an outside distraction.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:14:48 AM)
so dr. j- you're saying that the distraction IS due to the CAPD- that because she cannot understand what is being presented, of course she looks around for something else to occupy her time
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:14:50 AM)
LaurieC, thank you, but there is a third type of child (the one whom I am presently addressing who will seem distracted and is really distracting him/her self (self distractibility) because of what I call auditory overloading or language overloading.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:16:00 AM)
Yes, K exactly. If an APD (let's use APD from now on) evaluation were to find that your daughter's problem in auditory awareness or auditory decoding then she is probably "lost in a sea of words and sounds" and either has auditory decoding problems or language decoding problems. .....
Dorien (ID=44) (Aug 15, 2000 9:16:16 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:16:33 AM)
This sounds like my son.....
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:16:56 AM)
I have to say good-bye now. I wish I could stay. I will read the archives though. I am having trouble keeping up Lauren hanging over my shoulder here (she really wants to participate :-)) I do need to get to work today too. It's a good thing I have an understanding employer. Bye all!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:16:57 AM)
welcome back Dorien
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:17:08 AM)
how do you know which- can it be both? auditory decoding *and* language decoding?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:17:16 AM)
bye Mlmom!!! have a great day!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:17:19 AM)
Now, one-on-one, we tend to modify how we communicate with a child with auditory or language decoding problems. But, in a group, we respond to the general concensus of the group. Thus, a child with an APD may self distract b/c they are lost, overwhelmed or overloaded. The overloaded kids often remain quiet because they are overloaded and they shut down.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:17:22 AM)
bye Lauren!
Dorien (ID=44) (Aug 15, 2000 9:17:43 AM)
Hi Debbie My son turned off my pc
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:18:14 AM)
Dorien I figured something happened... =)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:18:23 AM)
What can be done to help him? I just got him an auditory trainer...will this help? OH...this sounds like my son...he does the quiet thing, and shuts down.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:18:58 AM)
These attention issues are SO important to our kid's success in school. The attention issues are my biggest worry as school starts. This discussion is great.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:19:02 AM)
my daughter behaves at school but comes home full of frustration and falls apart on a regular basis
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:19:11 AM)
K, it depends on the evaluation. If you control the language but modify the auditory factors, and the child changes signficiantly in behavior (response) then, the underlying factor would be an auditory decoding problem. If you control the auditory and leave it the same, but vary the language, then the problem could be a language decoding problem.
Dorien (ID=44) (Aug 15, 2000 9:19:36 AM)
Ya I have afive year old who does not like it when Iam doing anything
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:19:57 AM)
Bingo Dr. J........I've seen your 3rd child in my son often.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:19:59 AM)
hmmmm.....
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:20:29 AM)
Me too LaurieC.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:20:36 AM)
what are you thinking K's mom
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:20:44 AM)
can an auditry decoding problem lead to a language decoding problem if it goes unnoticed for too long?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:20:52 AM)
K's Mom.......ditto here with the after school "fits". Angel in school.
mlmom (ID=39) (Aug 15, 2000 9:20:55 AM)
bye debbie from lauren :-)
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:21:08 AM)
Bye Marie.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:21:11 AM)
I'm sorry- I'm very new to APD
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:21:14 AM)
Here's a tip to help children in improving their attention. SO long as the problem is NOT a neurophysiological self-regulating disorder (for me that means real ADD or ADHD), this will help, not cure, but help.......
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:23:07 AM)
K's mom....this is a great place to be if you are new....there is no need to be sorry.. we are all here to try and help one another. =)
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:23:36 AM)
We MUST remember that attention is NOT an automatic behavior. It has to be learned. It involves (in the auditory area) ACTIVE LISTENING. Think, again, about that foreign language situation I brought up before. When you are in that foreign speaking environment, you can't just passively sit there and listen. You are actively, intently, consciously, listening. Thus, we have to make our children be active listeners. HEre's a few things that can really help. And, if you can practice this at home it may carry over to general attentive listening. Hopefully, you can get the teachers to agree to doing this accommodation/modification.......
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:24:10 AM)
thanks-
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:24:30 AM)
If you are listening to a foreign language conversation and get lost, what might help you be better able NOT to get lost and, thus, to be more attentive in wanting to listen?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:24:58 AM)
questioning?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:25:03 AM)
dr j: are you asking for us to jump in?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:25:16 AM)
Look at the speaker for cues.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:25:44 AM)
Someone who speaks with their hands also making visual gestures could help
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:25:47 AM)
ask the speaker to slow down, put more space between words. ask for rewording. ask for them to write down what they're saying
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:26:41 AM)
Yes, please let's all brainstorm. K said questioning. But, how can I ask a question when I'm lost, I'm embarrased to seem "stupid" and I don't know the language well enough to know how to ask the question? But, yes, asking questions does help and it will focus on what I need to decode and have repeated or explained.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:26:53 AM)
Ask them to speak English?? :)
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:27:06 AM)
consider the context of the conversation to make a reasonable guess about the likely subject topic. watch for facial expressions that reveal emotional clues.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:27:23 AM)
you might not get every word, but you'll know how the speaker is reacting to the topic.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:27:45 AM)
yes- that's K's problem- she doesn't know the language well enough to ask a question- +++++++++++++++++++and she is *very* concerned aobut her peer+s' opinion
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:08 AM)
to avoid seeming stupid, you can say "sorry, i didn't quite understand what you said back there... did you mean X or Y, or did I get it wrong?"
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:19 AM)
that shows you're actively listening
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:19 AM)
Yes, looking for NON-VERBAL cues will help. So, you can play games with your children "Can you guess what I'm saying or what I mean" and you give obvious and easy to guess non-verbal cues and watch as your children begin to better understand how to "READ" faces, body language, gestures. Then, go to the teachers and ask them to provide as many clear, simple non-verbal cues......etc.
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:37 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:47 AM)
hi ncz...
Trina (ID=46) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:52 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:53 AM)
hi ncz
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:28:57 AM)
hi everyone
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:01 AM)
Hi ncz
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:12 AM)
unfortunately, most teachers are making simple direct requests that don't have a lot of emotional content to them... the nonverbal cue part works better in social conversations, i've found
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:16 AM)
hi ncz
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:29 AM)
hey marge--thanks for yesterday
Trina (ID=46) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:30 AM)
sorry clicked the wrong button
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:39 AM)
ncz: no problem
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:29:46 AM)
You can maybe play Charades with your child to practice?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:30:13 AM)
when the statement is "turn to page 16" and you think you've heard "page 60", that could take a while to figure out
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:30:15 AM)
Hi ncz.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:31:08 AM)
Are most teachers willing to make these mods in reality on a daily basis?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:31:11 AM)
what do you do if the class is learning the parts of a plant in that foreign language?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:31:47 AM)
k's mom: you can preteach the vocabulary
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:32:13 AM)
k's mom: assuming you know the foreign language well enough to pronounce the names :-)
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:32:26 AM)
Marge.......I am working on just that with my son at home. Pre-teaching vocab.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:32:34 AM)
Marge, good idea. Consider the context of the conversation. So, we can set up the "topic" for children so that can realize the topic or context of the conversation. This is often an important strategy used by people who are deaf and hard-of-hearing. They get lost, and as soon as they get the topic of the conversation, they are BACK in the conversation. So, you can set up a topic with your children in a game and brainstorm with them what they MAY hear in that conversation based on expectations for that topic. For those children who can't do this, do what I call "pre-teach." Teach them the vocabulary, items, basic concepts involved in a topic. Then, present the actual conversation, topic or story and stop or have them stop you each time a point or vocabulary item is reached that you pre-taught. Kids LOVE it when they "catch" the item or word. If we have time I can share this exact strategy I have been doing with my own son and what happened this morning at breakfast demonstrating the success of the strategy and the tremendously improved attention he had at breakfast.....
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:32:51 AM)
I think that's exactly what she needs!
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:33:26 AM)
dr j: i'd love to hear a personal anecdote... nice to get the practical side, as well as the theoy
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:33:29 AM)
theory
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:33:41 AM)
i'm interested hin this dr j...i try to do alot of preteaching with Sarah
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:34:46 AM)
my kids & my husband & I are very big readers... so the kids have a lot of vocabulary they can whip out as needed. (trying hard not to brag here... but hey it works for us) They don't often encounter words at school they haven't already learned at home.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:35:53 AM)
LaurieC you asked if MOST teachers are willing to make these modifications. The answer is MOST teachers are not willing to change the way they work, the way they teach. MANY are really willing to make the change when you point out how the change can affect ALL of or many of the other kids in class, some teachers will ONLY make the change when an expert tells them about it, and many will only change if it's in the IEP (required) AND there is someone monitoring the change. People are people. But, YOU can make the change and practice this at home, get the topics for what will be covered in the next or upcoming classes and do these games or exercises at home. Then, it will be easier for your child in school. I only hope that most I wish all of your children have teachers willing to make these minor changes. And they are minor.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:36:11 AM)
But what if your child is reluctant to pre-teaching~is overloaded from school, and still has homework to do? I'm lucky to get homework done, let alone try & bring in 'extra' stuff for him to do/
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:36:51 AM)
I JUST purchased a 2 volume set of books called "My Fun With Words Dictionary" published by the Southwestern Co for this very reason......to pre-teach vocab. These books are GREAT. They have large bold face words with fun pictures plus the words are contained in 2 or 3 sentences to reinforce.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:37:14 AM)
Marge responding to you comments on vocabulary.....yes, but your kids MAY encounter those vocabulary words used in different contexts thus carrying different meaning in school. SO, knowing the topic of lessons in school you can relate the vocabulary they already know to focus on the topic in shcool.
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:37:29 AM)
Deb--I have the same problems with my son
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:37:53 AM)
ncz.....VERY frustrating isn't it?!?!
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:38:05 AM)
yes!!!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:38:25 AM)
If a child is reluctant to preteaching....can you use the games scrabble (jr) or boggle to help play the word games but doing it in a fun family atmosphere?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:38:27 AM)
dr j: ummm, i guess i had in mind uncommon nouns... not more common words that can have multiple meanings.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:38:41 AM)
How do you deal with it/handle it?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:39:02 AM)
Dr. J......the reason I asked that was because I had a sad conversation with my sister-in-law the other day who is an SLP in a school in TX. She claims that EVEN WITH AN IEP, most her teachers are NOT providing the mods. I know this is a violation of law, but it is reality.
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:39:06 AM)
We had time to do scrabble this summer but now that school started --forget it
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:39:23 AM)
Debbie....is still sometimes very frustrating for him....and I think, to him, is like school.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:39:27 AM)
Laurie, again, as I just wrote in response to Marge. Now, if you can find out the topics to be covered in school, you can review vocab. as it relates to those topics. Note, you are NOT teaching the subject matter, but relating the vocab to the concepts. Also, in my experiences I have found you need to teach the vocab. verbally (orally said to the child) , in written form, when approapriate, having the child say it and use it in the proper context, and in the child's writing when appropriate for the child to write (a multisensory approach).
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:39:35 AM)
yep-K. doesn't want to spend any extra timeon HW- actually, I think she'll have a meltdown if she's even trying to understand *me* teaching the vocab. one-on-one- she shuts off so fast
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:40:15 AM)
dr J: that sounds like the Sitton Spelling program... they are using that at our elementary school.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:40:32 AM)
Deb, I do understand I have the same problems with my daughter. She just turned 9 and some days it's so hard to get home work done...some days are easier. Last year my teacher let me turn in all homework at the endof the week. She knew there were some days that Sarah was not catching the concepts
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:41:01 AM)
when presented with anything new she starts crying and whining and throwing herself around- it's like she won't even put forth the effort of *trying* to understand what's being said
Dorien (ID=44) (Aug 15, 2000 9:41:11 AM)
Laurie C parents have the right to make the school follow an IEP
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:41:14 AM)
K'mom...My son is the same...will react better w/ someone else helpng him, but not w/ me....voices tend to raise....not good.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:41:18 AM)
This allowed me on frustrating nights to walk away and regroup......Just had to make sure not all nights were frustrating nights. We really had to take advantage of good nights when she was understanding
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:42:20 AM)
that's a good idea for K, too- some nights really are worse than others
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:42:20 AM)
I was able to get my son to do FFW and Step FW this summer. I was surprised he hung in there
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:42:26 AM)
Laurie, yes, you are right. Without demeening ALL teachers, MOST people are not willing to change or make compensations. We can only hope that we can have the teacher cooperate. And, yes, it means someone needs to monitor the teacher (even if that someone is the parent). BUt, at least we can do these things at home or get a private SLP or tutor to work with the child on these things. Best is to do this type of active listening and thinking ALL THE TIME so the child will just naturally attend and think and listen this way ALL the time. Thus, the child will just listen and attend better b/c you have helped develop an active listening in a naturalistic way. Then, even a bad teacher or a teacher who will not modify will be LESS of a challenge to your child.
pibble (ID=47) (Aug 15, 2000 9:42:57 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:43:05 AM)
k's mom: has she had success (eventually) mastering new material in the past? my oldest used to get very frustrated if she didn't INSTANTLY latch onto a new concept. Fuss & whine, but she'd get it eventually. When I pointed this out to her (that new things she didn't INSTANTLY comprehend were causing her to behave like this), but that it didn't take long before she got it, it calmed her down. past success was the foundation for current work.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:43:26 AM)
Dr J, I have a question for you. The school has stated they would provide an FM for Sarah this year. I know I have to go in and rewrite the 504 Plan again. Should I have to wait until the 504 is written again to recieve the FM since the school has already agreed to provide one this year?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:43:30 AM)
hi pibble!
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:43:33 AM)
hi pibble
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:43:48 AM)
Hi pibble.
pibble (ID=47) (Aug 15, 2000 9:43:55 AM)
hi
pibble (ID=47) (Aug 15, 2000 9:44:32 AM)
What the best activities can I get my daughter in,
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:44:43 AM)
Now, I JUST got an aud. trainer for my son....could have/should have the school provided it? He's in a Charter School, does this make any difference?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:44:55 AM)
Marge- that's a good question- I really cannot recall her actually mastering anything in science or social studies, she reads only by memorizing whole words, and she only learns math when it is constantly re-phrased
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:45:13 AM)
Debbie-They should provide that FM system asap without re-writing the 504 plan
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:46:33 AM)
Debbie- when will the 504 be re-written? if they've already agreed, it sounds petty to make you wait- what's the point?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:46:37 AM)
ncz...that's what I was thinking too, I told my daugther to letme know if Mr Bill comes to see her today and brings one. I realize I'm in a large district with only one staff audiolist and he can't get to all children in one day.
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:46:42 AM)
Deb--unless he qualifies for special ed or 504 then it is difficult to get the school to do anything
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:46:44 AM)
deb: if you bought the equipment, the nice thing is that your son can use it anywhere, anytime, without having to sign out the equipment. and i believe there is case law that states that if YOU provide the equipment, the school has to use it (i think you still need the 504 in place).
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:47:01 AM)
The 504 will be rewritten within the first two weeks of school.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:47:29 AM)
Now, what's a 504? I'm new to Fla. and have not heard of this....
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:47:31 AM)
deb: of course, you'll have to take responsibility for equipment repairs.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:47:42 AM)
then it's really very silly to not let her use it the first two weeks- hopefully the school can see that
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:48:54 AM)
K's mom, I'm reading back. This is not uncommon (in my experience) for children with sensory processing problems (not just auditory but other sensory factors as well). Both on a professional level and a personal level (as a parent) I, too, have experienced this. What my wife and I do is to SET UP as many things that are new as is possible. One way is to begin with something comfortable and OLD that presents to the child NO fearful sensory factors. Then, we introduce a piece of the NEW and hope things work out from there. ANother thing we do is to prepare our child (and I have recommended this to others who say it really has helped). Part of this preparation is the pre-teaching we have discussed. We also try to make things concrete and understandable and have the child reflect back through repetition, discussion, etc. what is or WILL be involved in the new situation. Then, we introduce the new. In some cases, we need to add a great deal of encouragement and RECOGNITION and VALIDATION that the new thing IS HARD or NOT EASY for the child. But, you can make it and mommy and daddy will help you. Also, by offering a piece (but not the total) answer or solution to a problem, by offering a two choices (one the solution the other NOT and obviously NOT the solution) and having the child make the choice, the child begins to see that he/she can control his/her world, his/her environment and can be more and more successful. I hope some of these things work for you all when you have a child with difficulties with new things and change.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:49:12 AM)
a 504 Plan is for kids who don't qualify for special ed. (often because they are not acually failing or because they are considered to be "working to potential"), yet they need accomodations to 'level the playing field'
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:49:20 AM)
Deb, a 504 plan is covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act...providing a child help if they have a "disability" that affects a major life function and the chilid does not qualify for help under regular means. (IEP) this is a quick summary in a nutshell
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:49:44 AM)
I guess it's good that I purchased it trainer..he can then use it whenever/whereever
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:50:38 AM)
Debbie; thanks...he does currently have an IEP...although, he has not started w/ speech or OT yest...not in place w/ the school yet.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:51:13 AM)
deb: and you're not at the mercy of a "30 day trial" . nobody can take it away from him for administrative or other reasons.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:51:40 AM)
Deb my daughter did not "qualify" for an IEP, so we were eventually given the 504 Plan
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:51:43 AM)
thank you , dr. j- controlling her environment is definitely an issue with K.- like I said, she iss pretty confused by the world- and she soes need alot of validation- I will keep a copy of this advice!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:51:43 AM)
How to proceed?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:52:30 AM)
k's mom: i can vouch for what dr j. said about reassuring the kids that school isn't SUPPOSED to be easy. learning is hard work!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:52:36 AM)
Deb, a focus of the 504 plan is called EQUAL ACCESS. Thus, if you or the specialists with whom you are working feel your child needs an accommodation such as an FM system, then, the report SHOULD demonstrate the equal access factor. That is, the child with an APD who can not get the teacher's voice does not have equal access to the information the teacher presents to all of the kids in class. Thus, the reason for the FM system is to provide equal access for your child to get the teacher's voice. Then, the school district writing up the 504 plan MUST provide at the school district's expense FOR USE IN SCHOOL ONLY the accommodation.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:53:28 AM)
Deb, you asked how to proceed ...... with what?
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:53:36 AM)
well said Dr.J
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:11 AM)
With trying to get his IEP activated...he is to get speech and OT 2x weekly, but has yet to recieve anything.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:19 AM)
push up......
Trina (ID=46) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:27 AM)
I apologize for not inputting much...but i can only multitask so much :) I'm going to work on the Audiologist listing so i'll be leaving now. I'll come in later to read up on what i missed. It was a pleasure meeting everyone. I'll be visiting from time to time.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:35 AM)
when does school start Deb?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:37 AM)
bye trina
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:45 AM)
bye Trina
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:54:54 AM)
He is just starting his 2nd week.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:55:01 AM)
Bye Trina.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:55:10 AM)
so what on earth is holding up the implementation of the IEP?
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:55:18 AM)
Deb, you said he is to receive speech and OT 2x a week. Well, how do you know he is to receive these services if an IEP has not been written. Receiving services like Speech and OT is NOT part of the 504 plan usually.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:55:44 AM)
It's a brand new school, and they tell me they just signed on w/ Sumter Co. to come in and help these kids...
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:07 AM)
Deb......I'm lost, are you at a charter school or public?
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:10 AM)
Bye Trina - butterfly is flying away ;-) It was a pleasure to "meet" you even if only briefly. But, I would guess we will meet again time and time.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:20 AM)
so when will the Sumter people be there?
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:23 AM)
Bye Trina.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:27 AM)
From his IEP last year, carrying over to this school year, states he is to get these services.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:37 AM)
bye Trina, I'll call you later on today
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:45 AM)
but he changed schools nsince last year?
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:51 AM)
Don't know...I asked the VP yesterday, and she wasn't sure.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:56:59 AM)
deb: there is some sort of reporting process you can go through to report them not in compliance with the IEP.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:57:04 AM)
Yes, changed schools, and counties.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:57:25 AM)
but still public? or now charter?
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:57:33 AM)
OK, thanks Marge.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:57:37 AM)
Deb, that is no excuse. As soon as the plan is set it MUST include a starting day regardless of whether the school is ready or not. It's their responsibility to be ready. If the starting date is Opening Of School, two weeks is two weeks late.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:57:42 AM)
It's a Charter.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:57:55 AM)
That may be the problem.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:58:10 AM)
dr. j is right!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:58:34 AM)
I made calls over the summer to try & have this all taken care of before school...got the ususal runaround.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 9:58:53 AM)
Do Charters have to follow the same laws/mandates?
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:58:55 AM)
dr J: looks like we're running out of time for a discussion re: peripheral effects in auditory processing... som eothe rtime I guess! Also wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about the possible role of central masking in CAPD... that project will have to wait til I make more headway with some other work i'm doing. but i won't forget about it :-)
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:58:57 AM)
then it's time to report them
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:58:59 AM)
You know, new school, changing counties, etc.
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 9:59:16 AM)
Deb-request things in writing and not just telephone calls
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 9:59:23 AM)
laurieC: it's my understandin gthat the charters DO have to follow these mandates. Thyey are federal,not state.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 9:59:25 AM)
good idea ncz
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 9:59:48 AM)
Thanks K'smom....Yes, Marge, you are correct from what I have heard.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 9:59:54 AM)
Deb, no matter if you have changes schools or not. I believe the law is 30 days or 45 days to get the IEP in place and implemented. Services should and must begin no later than the legal time limit. FIrst, I'd suggest you contact the school's special education head (director or whatever) and ask and DEMAND in writting what is keeping the IEP from being started and what will be the exact date of starting and their burden of proof is that the date of starting is within the legal time frame.
pibble (ID=48) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:12 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:12 AM)
it took me a year to get my oldest a 504 and close to a year to get K's IEP- schools will drag their feet unless you bug them
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:47 AM)
the squeaky wheel gets the oil.....
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:50 AM)
laurieC: i remember when they were discussing charter schools here in GA that the stipulation was that kids who needed special services would still get them... their charter does not let them exclude anyone on the basis of disability or IEP status.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:52 AM)
True...I will now start taking ACTION! Thanks to all!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:54 AM)
Well, it's getting close to the time I have to leave and I promised Marge to respond to a question she rasied much earlier in the chat. Marge, can you restate or repeat your statement or question now about the "central" auditory system and peripheral functioning?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:00:56 AM)
K's mom....exactly!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:01:40 AM)
Deb,, if you email me at capdfromtheheart@aol.com I will send the information you asked for.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:01:56 AM)
dr j: the abstract i cited mentioned that if there's a problem with basilar membrane compliance in the cochlea, that that can cause problems with loudness tolerance, temporal integration, and some other psychoacoustic measures
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:02:04 AM)
THANK YOU to everyone!!! VERY INFORMATIVE this am....will be here tinight as well!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:02:20 AM)
As for charter school. The law does not exclude a school district from NOT providing federally mandated services in a charter school housed within that school district.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:02:27 AM)
Debbie: MOST definately!!! THANKS!
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:03:12 AM)
dr j: i got the impression this abstract (by a couple of cochlear researchers) which was published in a psych journal, was a veiled plea to be sure the cognitive neuroscience community did not overlook peripheral hearing functions before drawing conclusions about the centrality of certain auditory phenomena.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 10:03:12 AM)
Thanks for all the great info everyone.
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:03:57 AM)
Marge, I'll put this into a more "layman's" termonology. Marge is referring to a study (I have not read the study) that has concluded that a problem in the inner ear or cochlea (thus, not within the central auditory pathways) can have a significant effect on the functioning within the central auditory system.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:04:16 AM)
ummm, no, i don't think they're saying that..
ncz (ID=45) (Aug 15, 2000 10:04:17 AM)
by ncz
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:04:25 AM)
i think they're saying that IF cochlear problems are present...
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:04:34 AM)
they could influence the outcome of certain auditory tests...
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:04:46 AM)
which, if you did not look & test the cochlea for these problems...
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:05:04 AM)
you might mistakenly conclude you were measuring / testing a central auditory function...
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:05:06 AM)
Yes, Marge. This has been recognized for years. Years ago, James Jerger discussed the changes in the central auditory pathways or in central auditory processing due to changes in the inner ear/cochlea related with aging.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:05:28 AM)
when in reality, you were getting the results of a peripheral problem
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:05:46 AM)
yeah, i know about the work re: aging & central auditory pathways.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:06:10 AM)
this abstract i cited isn't about aging, or about the effect of longterm periph loss on the central auditory system
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:06:37 AM)
the abstract is saying that if you don't rule out certain cochlear problems, you will ERRONEOUSLY attribute
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:06:45 AM)
to the central auditory system/pathways...
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:06:55 AM)
phenomena that are actually peripheral in origin.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:07:01 AM)
(does that clarify??)
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:07:07 AM)
Well, you are ALWAYS measuring auditory processing when you are measuring behavioral factors such as psychoacoustic measures. So, and I hold to this greatly, variances in performance within the inner ear (and even in the middle ear) can and will affect the information that is transmitted to the auditory nerves so that peripheral functioning greatly has an affect on central auditory procesing (not necessarily funcitoning).
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:07:47 AM)
exactly... and i think some of the cognitive neuroscience community is not taking this into account
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:08:11 AM)
when they write about capd, learning disabilities, etc
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:08:37 AM)
the auditory workup on some of their test subjects is scarcely more than a screening in some of the papers i've read
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:11:04 AM)
Dr J, I know our time is past the 10:00 hour and that you have alot of classes to prepare for. Thank you so much for all the information you've given us this morning and your continual willingness to host the chats.!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:11:04 AM)
No, when in reality you are getting a combination of peripheral, central auditory, and cognitive (memory, attention, decision making, etc.) factors.
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:11:32 AM)
my point being that a number of the cognitive neuroscience papers have not adequately ruled out alternate explanations for their test results
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:11:45 AM)
thanks for hosting the chat dr. j.!
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:12:20 AM)
debbie: i'm sending you those addresses right now. bye all!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:12:52 AM)
Thank you for reminding me. Well, I have to say good-bye. Please keep in touch. Get involved with the CAPD list. JOin the National Coalition on Auditory Processing Disorders when membership becomes available, and email me privately if you have any questions on any topics.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:13:20 AM)
thanks Marge!
Marge (ID=41) (Aug 15, 2000 10:13:27 AM)
bye!
dr.j (ID=36) (Aug 15, 2000 10:13:45 AM)
Thank you all for coming and I hope to see you all again in two weeks.
LaurieC (ID=38) (Aug 15, 2000 10:13:45 AM)
Bye everyone. Great chat!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:14:29 AM)
This really was a good chat this morning!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:15:15 AM)
K's mom and Deb, I think you were both knew this morning...I am so happy you could join us.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:15:48 AM)
There is an email list on the entry to the chat that you can join if you are interested.....I send out announcements regarding the nonprofit and the chat schedule.
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:16:44 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:16:54 AM)
Debbie: yes, first time here. LOVED IT!!I will be signing up for the e-mail list, right after we're done here!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:16:56 AM)
good morning Peter! How are you today.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:17:18 AM)
Hi Peter.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:17:36 AM)
I hope Dr J knows I was not rushing him off. I know he really gets involved in the chat and looses track of the time.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:17:52 AM)
Deb, how old is your child?
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:18:33 AM)
What a wonderful thing for him to do...be on the chat. I really think it is great for sooo many of us parents dealing w/ this issue.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:18:56 AM)
Peter, Dr J and some others just left, but we can stay and chat if you have some questions
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:19:01 AM)
Debbie..he will be 8 in Oct. and in 2nd grade.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:19:35 AM)
My daughter is 9 now, but she was diagnosed with CAPD when she was 6 1/2 in 1st grade.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:19:48 AM)
I'm sorry- I stepped away for a phone call- thank you Debbie!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:20:03 AM)
It's seems like it's been an eternity....wow how life has changed.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:20:21 AM)
K's mom you are welcome. Did you have other questions?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:21:03 AM)
only a billion! :)
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:21:14 AM)
Travis was diagnosed when he was around 4....and here I thought I was doing for him what he needed. I don't feel that way as of today. I feel as though I have let him down, that there were things I SHOULD have been doing, but didn't knoiw about.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:21:27 AM)
With school starting back up, I am hoping to begin holding more chats again with various professionals. these would be some evening chats also.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:21:46 AM)
you're lucky Deb- K. was dx'ed in July, and she turns 9 in Oct
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:22:15 AM)
talk about w-+
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:22:16 AM)
Deb, do not feel like you've let him down!!!!1 You've done what you thought was right for hm and in no way is that wrong.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:22:29 AM)
sorry- my son pushed the button
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:22:38 AM)
anyway, talk about wasting time!
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:22:48 AM)
Sorry for being so slow, hi everybody.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:22:50 AM)
Example....knew NOTHING about the FM devieces..would have had that a long time ago...also knew nothing about FFW and Earobics..need more info on these 2 products.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:23:03 AM)
The focus of the chat is not to point out what a parent has done wrong but to offer suggestions and encouragement and share new information......
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:23:51 AM)
I knew K. was having difficulty all through kindergarten- but the teacher refused to refer her to the child study team, and I didn't know my rights
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:24:00 AM)
Deb I knew nothing about the majority of any of this for the first 1 1/2 years after Sarah was diagnosed. I spent that amount of time, having never met another parent of a child with CAPD, doing what I thought was right. I had no idea that there really was help available.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:24:15 AM)
it wasn't until the last week of first grade that she got an IEP
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:24:47 AM)
Debbie...you are correct...but it's just that 'mother thing'...I guess because I have always been involved w/ his schoolong, and feel I should have noticed more....
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:24:49 AM)
even after Sarah got her 504 plan at the end of first grade, I did not get an FM until 3rd grade.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:25:03 AM)
then we spent last year believing it was 'just' a language impaiment
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:25:28 AM)
now she is so far behind!
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:25:56 AM)
Travis has language isssues as well...
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:26:14 AM)
Deb I was kindergarten room mom and i knew my daughter was having trouble,,i took her to dr's and audioligsts and had her "tested"....they never did the test for CAPD even though I mentioned auditory processing problems, I trusted my doctors.
Deb (ID=35) (Aug 15, 2000 10:26:23 AM)
So is Travis, behind.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:26:31 AM)
Sarah is too,
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:26:44 AM)
Peter, do you have a child with CAPD?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:26:54 AM)
yeah- we had K's hearing screened- of course it was fine- nobody ever said anything about CAPD
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:28:26 AM)
I am so grateful to the aud who finally listened to me when I said there was something wrong.
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:28:32 AM)
Yes, my son Gabe (age 5) has CAPD and sensory integration issues.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:29:00 AM)
Is he starting Kindergarden this year?
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:29:12 AM)
Yes, in two weeks.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:29:26 AM)
You must be excited. My girls went back to school today.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:29:32 AM)
does he have an IEP or a 504?
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:29:47 AM)
Have your children made progress in pragmatics? mine seems to be behind despite his gains in expr/recept. lang.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:29:48 AM)
you are so lucky Debbie! we start three weeks from now!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:30:15 AM)
Ks mom...there is a big difference between a hearing screening and APD testing.. Not all audioligists do the APD testing.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:30:49 AM)
I know now- at the time I knew nothing aobut CAPD
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:30:57 AM)
My daughter is doing better now. When originally diagnosed she had problems in decoding and background discrimination. She is close to the normal range now
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:31:37 AM)
K's pragmatics are fine- her expe/rec/ are still very delayed
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:31:44 AM)
neither did I K's mom. That's why I believe my daughter. We saw audiolists off and of for 4 years before the diagnosis was made.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:32:18 AM)
oops..that's why i believed my daughter's doctors
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:32:27 AM)
i alwasy believe my daughter. =)
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:33:09 AM)
does Sarah have other lds?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:33:44 AM)
or Gabe?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:33:49 AM)
not that I am aware of ....She has trouble with reading, but we believe that is due to the CAPD.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:34:26 AM)
K. has so many confusing problems- I cannot figure it all out yet!
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:35:37 AM)
I believe the CAPD is the root,a nd the anxiety issues, the SI issues, the language issues, etc. stem from that
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:36:02 AM)
do either of you have other children?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:36:13 AM)
last fall we saw an educational psychologist who did a comprehensive testing on Sarah
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:36:26 AM)
I am really trying to figure out what else there could be besides CAPD and SI. The director at the school he's going is pushing us to get a third diagnostic within a year's time (it's a private school, but the goal is to incorporate Gabe into a mainstream school, the diagnosis would help with the IEP).
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:36:46 AM)
I have one other daughter younger than Sarah and two older step children (grown adults now)
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:37:05 AM)
Do any of you have CAPD yourselves?
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:37:24 AM)
no one else in my family had been diagnosed with capd
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:37:45 AM)
I wonder- I've beensaying for years now that I need a hearing test- I 'lose' conversation constantly
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:38:09 AM)
I do, and I hope that Gabe has it a lot easier than I, even though I didn't exhibit such serious symptons like he does now.
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:38:35 AM)
which means his can be only worse??! (LOL)
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:38:59 AM)
Peter as an adult with CAPD, what type of management techniques do you use?
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:39:18 AM)
but he'll have access to inventions you didn't have
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:40:03 AM)
better understanding and laws than when we were young
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:40:20 AM)
Gabe will also have the benefit of having a parent who understands how he processes information. I can try and understand what it must be like for Sarah, but not having CAPD I will never fully understand.
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:40:57 AM)
that's true- I cannot comprehend the difficulties of K's life
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:42:35 AM)
I'm very sorry- I really must go- my children need lunch
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:42:45 AM)
they just won't stop growing!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:42:50 AM)
Im going to have to go soon too....
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:43:00 AM)
K's mom i hope to see you in a chat again soon....
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:43:08 AM)
bye- thank you!- you will!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:43:13 AM)
great!
K's mom (ID=42) (Aug 15, 2000 10:43:16 AM)
I promise!
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:43:21 AM)
=)
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:43:45 AM)
Peter, is there any chance you can make the Parent's chat tonight at 9 pm EST?
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:44:06 AM)
Sorry, I can't. This time (morning) was much better)
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:44:31 AM)
Is this a typical chat, not too many people
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:44:33 AM)
the morning chat is everyother Tuesday, I hope you'll be able to join in two weeks again.
debbie (ID=34) (Aug 15, 2000 10:45:01 AM)
There were quite a few people here ealier,, I will be posting the chat transcript later on today if you would like to read it.
Peter (ID=49) (Aug 15, 2000 10:45:18 AM)
OK, thanks. Yes, I will be there. I guess I'll see you then. Bye for now.
