LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:09:37 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 65.26.205.184)
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:09:48 PM)
Hi Laurie
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:09:59 PM)
Hi Carol.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:10:08 PM)
We're the early ones I guess
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:10:33 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.172.244.14)
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:10:42 PM)
Hi debbie
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:10:46 PM)
I never can see the box that gives all the user names in the chat. Oh....... Debbie's here. Hi Debbi.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:11:24 PM)
I just figured out how to change the settings
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:11:40 PM)
no this is her husband, she is at the hospital with a friend
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:11:54 PM)
Oh, that's too bad. Hi
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:11:59 PM)
For some reason, I can't get the user box to scroll down. Hi Debbie's husband.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:12:18 PM)
Carol.....do you have a child with an APD?
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:12:21 PM)
I think that's because there's only 3 of us here
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:12:28 PM)
Yes, her name is Krystie and she is7
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:12:36 PM)
Do you
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:12:41 PM)
My son is Dylan. He just turned 8.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:12:56 PM)
What's your name, Debbie's husband?
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:13:09 PM)
Carol.... where are you at in regards to testing, school support, etc?
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:14:06 PM)
Final testing with an audiologist is this summer. We just finished a round at Children's in Boston. The school is OK except she's not special needs so I don't get much help except for a 504 that I have to keep on top of
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:14:20 PM)
How about you?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:14:39 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.160.110.54)
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:14:45 PM)
Hi Andrea
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:14:56 PM)
I was able to get an IEP.... but really only for speech/language. It says nothing about the APD. Hi Andrea.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:15:26 PM)
Hi, Carol. Guess you guys are already chatting! Does it start at 8 or 9 EST?
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:15:46 PM)
I was told by the school that CAPD can only be diagnosed by an audiologist and only then will they re-eval her for an IEP. The chat starts at 8
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:16:19 PM)
Carol....does Krystie have any speech/language issues besides the APD?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:16:23 PM)
My school wouldn't even put CAPD on a 504. Daughter is 8.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:16:47 PM)
I think if they put it on there, they have to do something about it? Is that right?
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:16:58 PM)
Hi Andrea......my son is 8 also (just turned).
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:17:15 PM)
My problem is that she gets so frustrated that she is now starting to give up in school and she is bright but giving up. No real issues except focus and attention and poor handwriting. Andrea, fight for it for special situations like seating and re-directing her attention. It has helped so much
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:17:58 PM)
Krystie is also allowed to keep a squeeze ball in her hand for when the teacher is talking because it helps focus her and that is on the 504
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:18:31 PM)
Another thing on the 504 is that she can chew on a straw because she was chewing her clothes to pieces
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:18:37 PM)
Andrea..... yes.. if the school acknowledges the APD as a "disability" under the IEP... they would have to have some sort of support to offer I would think.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:19:05 PM)
But the kids don't always meet the criteria of a disability and that's when the 504 is so helpful
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:19:05 PM)
Jessie has focus & attention issues and what I consider bad handwriting compared to other kids. Yes, they are giving her preferential seating and working on behavior (she's very chatty - has ADHD, too)
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:19:49 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.154.115.62)
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:19:59 PM)
Hi deb
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:20:07 PM)
Hi everyone.....
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:20:17 PM)
Through experience, I now would suggest getting her tested by an audiologist ASAP because they really put a lot of weight on their diagnosis and ideas for help, Hi deb
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:20:19 PM)
Carol.....have you ruled out other possible underlying problems for Kristie's focus and attention problems? My son's main problems in class are also focus and attention, mainly zoning out and daydreaming.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:20:28 PM)
hello from debbie's husband
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:20:39 PM)
Hi Woody!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:21:03 PM)
Woody...how is Sarah?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:21:10 PM)
long time no talk
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:21:10 PM)
Hi Deb. Hi Woody!
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:21:30 PM)
she is fine, has the chicken pox
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:21:30 PM)
We did rule out a number of other problems and are really focusing on CAPD but I still want to know what part of the auditory is the problem. OH, Woody, hello
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:21:36 PM)
Hi Laurie! How are you?
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:22:00 PM)
Woody...DEBBIE has them?!?!
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:22:13 PM)
Chicken pox! I never had them and hope that the vaccine helps
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:22:19 PM)
no she hasn't had
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:22:23 PM)
Good deb.......things are going fairly smooth right now with my son.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:22:47 PM)
Laurie....good, I'm glad to hear that.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:23:42 PM)
Carol....was I supposed to get the name of the audiologist at Arnold Palmer Hosp. in Orlando for you?
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:23:55 PM)
I don't think so, I'm in MA
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:24:09 PM)
Trying to figure out the root cause of my son's distraction has proved to be VERY complicated. We've had testing by the aud, a neuropsychologist, a developmental optometrist, and a SLP.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:24:10 PM)
Although I know there is another Carol on here.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:24:12 PM)
Carol....ok...wrong Carol, sorry!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:24:25 PM)
Has anybody ever done FFWD? Jessie did it, but she had strong receptive & expressive language going into the thing, so I am wondering if the SLP was just trying to make money, since she breezed through the last part.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:24:44 PM)
That's who I must need to give it to then.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:24:54 PM)
Hi, Woody, It takes me time to catch up.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:25:23 PM)
Andrea....No, we haven't tried FFW. We are starting Earobics though soon.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:25:42 PM)
Andrea.... my son did FFW 1 this past summer. We had great results with his pre/post language score gains.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:25:42 PM)
My S/L path. told me she wouldn't benefit by any of those because she is strong in that area
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:26:41 PM)
The tricky thing about FFW, which Dr. J points out frequently on the list, is trying to determine which kids are good candidates, and which ones aren't. It is expensive.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:27:03 PM)
Laurie, were there gains that you could see for yourself, or only on the testing
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:27:07 PM)
Woody....Have Debbie e-mail tomorrow, when she can, about Thursday. She'll know what I'm talking about.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:27:36 PM)
CAROL, see that is just what I thought
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:27:59 PM)
I still don't know if she's right, though.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:28:12 PM)
I need something to help her focus
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:28:35 PM)
Yes Andrea...... I noticed his expressive skills improve a lot at home (syntax, sentence structure, past/present tenses, etc). He had his first ever conversation with his Grandma on a phone where he directed the conversation and didn't just repond in a yes/no fashion.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:28:55 PM)
We took pictures today at a photo studio, it was hell. She couldn't keep a pose, sit still, listen to the photographer, I was practically in tears.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:28:58 PM)
My daughter has trouble doing homework. Fidgets in her seat, twirls her hair. She has SID, too. Did you rule that out, Carol?
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:29:38 PM)
That's sensory something, right? No, haven't ruled that out yet but I do have horrible problems at homework time.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:29:44 PM)
Who rules out SID
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:29:47 PM)
We're going this Friday for an SI eval on my son....
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:30:11 PM)
Andrea...... homework was sheer hell with Dylan until I started using a timer with him. He is staying more focused now doing it.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:30:23 PM)
Carol....an OT who knows about SI can rule it out.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:30:36 PM)
How long is the timer set for, Laurie, mine would be for about 5 hours
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:31:02 PM)
LaurieC, maybe my son would benefit, but he definitely doesn't have the patience and he's too young to be diagnosed CAPD, only 5. HE's a little language delayed, but not a lot.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:31:22 PM)
deb, briefly, what would SI present with?
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:31:45 PM)
Andrea....my son got his official APD dx when he was 4yr. 11 mo.....
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:31:58 PM)
Yes, I'm happy when a friend wants to come over to play, cause I say well do your homework first, and invariable she gets done faster. more motivated.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:32:23 PM)
deb, do you have a CAPD, diag. for your son?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:32:26 PM)
Really? Deb, my hospital won't do it before 6.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:32:47 PM)
She had to be able to read for our testing
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:32:57 PM)
SID has several components to it. My kids are both in getting SI OT, but for different reasons
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:33:08 PM)
Andrea.....you're right. Motivation is one important component. Trouble is......all kids are motivated differently. It is a trial and error process.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:34:08 PM)
How are your kids organizational skills? My son's are a disaster. We have another incentive plan in place for that.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:34:13 PM)
Carol....Si can manifest itself in SOOOOOO many ways! It's actually scarey, because things that I look back on now, when Travis was much younger, it clearly screamed SI ISSUES!!! He hated taking a bath, getting his hair washed...is ok with that now...he swims like a fish! But, he still has many issues...
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:34:19 PM)
Jess needs it because she just can't stop. She's like a train. Josh gets it because he has poor postural stability -- not sure where his body is in space, uncoordinated. They both have difficulty "crossing the midline" - which affect physical activity. Like jessie gets confused about which foot to use when playing soccer.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:34:42 PM)
i''ll be right back
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:35:15 PM)
Andrea....we lived up north when he was first dx...and we took him to the Univ. of Rochester, in NYS....but, you are right, in that some Dr.'s won't test until they are 6, sometimes even 7.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:35:19 PM)
She has a lot of issues, too but I think mild. Fears that are unjustified, scared of new situations.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:36:14 PM)
She did used to get very confused about body awareness. Like riding her bike into her sister or the wall.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:36:16 PM)
Deb.....are you close to SUNY at Buffalo? Isn't that where Jack Katz is at? Isn't that supposed to be a big research facility for APD?
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:36:27 PM)
Carol...get the book "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz.....AMAZING book on SI....
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:36:48 PM)
I have it written from one of the other chats and still need to get it.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:37:08 PM)
Yes Carol......that's a great book.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:37:35 PM)
tomorrow, a book store trip might be fun. Are your kids home on vacation, too
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:38:03 PM)
Laurie....I used to live about 2 1/2 hours from Buffalo, and yes, that's where Jack Katz is. I onl;y wish I had known that 5 years ago!! We now live in Ocala, Fl....I'm about 2 hours away from Debbie and Woody!
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:38:51 PM)
deb, your kids aren't in school together, then. You know each other because of the APD?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:39:43 PM)
Yeah, LaurieC, Jessie doens't know what organization is. She's a seat of the pants kid. Another component of SI is motor PLANNING. LIke if you're high up on a swing, how do you get down without jumping? You turn your body, and hang by your hands, then, jump. Jess coudn't do that.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:39:50 PM)
Carol.....no, our kids don't go to school together. I met Debbie right here, in the chat. We've since gone to different confrences and seminars together. She is AWESOME!!!!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:40:16 PM)
Difficulty with new situations is another SI issues. My kids have trouble with change, too.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:40:22 PM)
Has anyone in chat right now been able to get their school to acknowledge APD in their child's IEP or 504?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:40:27 PM)
Sorry for the typos
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:41:01 PM)
Yes, our school has been really good about it except they want to push her academically because she is bright but I'm afraid it will break her
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:41:05 PM)
Deb...... Debbie's work setting up the non-profit and this chat HAVE been awesome!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:41:08 PM)
The Kranowitz book says it all.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:41:47 PM)
Laurie....Travis' APD is in his IEP....but he also has a speech/language problem, and gets OT. If it weren't for the speech thing, I doubt he would even have an IEP.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:42:29 PM)
I'll be right back
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:42:53 PM)
Laurie....You better believe it!! It is so nice to have a place that we, as parents can go, and hash things over....I know I ALWAYS leave chat with some new information!
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:43:13 PM)
Deb......I KNOW my son wouldn't have an IEP if it were'nt for the speech/language. One thing I've learned this past year or two is this: schools are REACTIVE, not PROACTIVE. If your child isn't yet failing OR a serious behavioral problem, they'll fall through a crack!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:43:47 PM)
Andrea....you're right...the book says it all. Travis' teacher has read it cover to cover, and couldn't believe it! She said it was like so much of the book was written just about him!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:43:52 PM)
LaurieC, that is very much my experience too.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:44:27 PM)
Laurie...so sad, but so true. =(
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:44:33 PM)
Yeah, my husband goes to OT with the kids and says he wishes he had it. I'm sure my husband has it too.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:44:49 PM)
Meaning he wishes he had had the OT, not the SID.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:45:35 PM)
Deb.....you are so fortunate that Travis is able to have a teacher that is even willing to take the time to read such a book. I know many teachers want to help their special needs children, but when it comes to push or shove, they many times don't have the time or admin support to really help the child.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:45:36 PM)
My husband definetly has the CAPD I have to read that book
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:46:04 PM)
My school district won't even really talk about the SID. The OT knows a little about it, but doesn't have much experience with it. I've given up on my school district and am moving one town over. Who know if it will be better or worse. How's that for drastic action??
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:46:55 PM)
Have most of you done your testing through the schools, or privately?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:47:01 PM)
My husband has dyslexia, CAPD, ADHD, all diagnosed at age 32.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:47:12 PM)
Laurie....I am very fortunate! His teacher is a huge supporter of Travis....I'm hoping she will play a big part when he gets his 3rd grade teacher....fill her in, etc...
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:47:55 PM)
For Jess, privately as they think I'm making up symptoms. For Josh, he's been identified by Project Child and is in an early intervention preschool
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:47:56 PM)
Andrea....WOW.....how is he handling it all?
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:48:03 PM)
I did both, school first then with Children's in Boston who suggested we see an audiologist. Unfortunately, to do that, she needed to be tested by the audiology dept. first so her 3rd eval with S/L path.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:48:23 PM)
We've done both school testing, and private. His SI eval this Friday is private.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 8:48:41 PM)
i sure do miss the snow but not the cold
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:49:00 PM)
Our OT didn't see reason for special needs but I don't know what he did see.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:49:49 PM)
Woody, I'd send my snow to you if I could, I absolutely hate everything to do with winter
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:50:03 PM)
Deb, he's working successfully in his own business. If he had to work in the corporate mail, he couldn't survive. He has difficulty reading, so he hates the office work part, but he's great with his hands. He owns a burglar/fire alarm company. He loves the hands on work.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:50:15 PM)
I means corporate WORLD.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:50:23 PM)
I don't miss the snow at all!! That's why we left NYS last year!
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:50:29 PM)
For us......it's been 100% private testing. I didn't want my son to lanquish in the cue to get tested. It would have taken so many months, I didn't want to wait.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:51:03 PM)
For us, the waiting is private, the school only took 2 months to start testing
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:51:16 PM)
Andrea...that's wonderful! Good for him!
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:51:46 PM)
My husband works as shift commander at the jail so my joke is: I'm surprised inmates aren't running loose. Mean, I know
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:52:16 PM)
Thanks, deb. He does work hard to cope. Imagine having ADHD and dealing with kids with the same thing!
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:52:34 PM)
He, too has real problems with writing but uses the computer for spell check and neatness
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:52:53 PM)
Andrea....that's got to be very tough...for him, and for you!!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:53:14 PM)
Yes, we are both very very tired. Thanks for listening
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:53:41 PM)
That's what we're all here for....to listen and to share.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:53:55 PM)
Andrea.... has your daughter been dx'd with any writing disorder? Is it dysgraphia?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:54:02 PM)
Yes, these things just don't go away on their own. I think the best thing is to find what you're good at and go for it, Carol
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:54:20 PM)
That's what I'm hoping for Krystie.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:55:03 PM)
Yes.....this chat and the listserv have been very important in teaching me how to advocate for my son.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:55:07 PM)
I don't know about my daughter being diagnosed with it, but definitely my son -- even though he is only 5 -- he works so hard to write an intelligible letter. And my husband's handwriting is atrocious. So he probably has it too.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:55:52 PM)
Is dysgraphia part of CAPD or something completely separate?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:56:19 PM)
I am shy and have trouble with confronting people -- defending my point. So it's hard for me to advocate for my kids, but I do what I have to, even if I'm shaking.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:56:25 PM)
Laurie.....I couldn't agree more! The info I get from the chat, the listserv, has been tremendous!
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:56:39 PM)
Sorry, but what is listserv?
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:14 PM)
Carol........I'm not sure but as I recall on the list, Dr. J has said there is no connection between an auditory function (APD) and the processing needed to do handwriting. I'm fuzzy on this tho.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:15 PM)
Andrea, if it's any help, someday, you will get past the point of shaking. I did by the time Krystie was 4
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:22 PM)
Andrea.....keep on doing what you're doing, and be very proud of yourself!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:27 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 65.32.156.121)
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:35 PM)
Hi Kathy
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:44 PM)
I think dysgraphia is like dyslexia, only with output on the page. So it's not really related except that they're all Learning DIsabilities? Am I right?
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:48 PM)
Hi Kathy...welcome!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 8:57:55 PM)
Hello all
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 8:58:10 PM)
Something else to test for then? By whom?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:58:26 PM)
hi Kathy
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 8:58:37 PM)
Hi Kathy.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 8:59:47 PM)
Does any body else monitor the listserve by Dr. Lucker? has anyone had their child's thyriod tested?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 8:59:51 PM)
That's a great question, Carol. I have no idea who gives a dysgraphia diagnosis. Maybe the same person who diagnoses dyslexia.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:00:00 PM)
Carol..... the CAPD listserv is a newgroup or bulletin board moderated by Dr. Jay Lucker. You can join by going to
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:00:38 PM)
Kathy.....I read the listserv every day, but have not had my son tested fot thyroid.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:00:39 PM)
Sorry. Go to http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/capd.html to join.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:01:29 PM)
I've seen some stuff on thyroid. I haven't pursued it. It's kind of weird/scary.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:01:35 PM)
Thanks. I have to go put the kids to bed. Such is vacation. Be back in a while.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:01:35 PM)
Kathy....... I'm active on the listserv. My son doesn't show any of the other symptoms I've seen mentioned, so I haven't had him tested.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:01:49 PM)
See you in a bit Carol....
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:01:53 PM)
I think the list serve is a "wonderful" forum for new ideas, some legitimate and some a liitle out there...
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:03:10 PM)
My computer is FULL of post-it notes, with web sites and info I get off the listserv!!! It's such a valuable tool, and so full of information.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:03:58 PM)
i will discuss thyriod testing with my ped. if she thinks it is warrented will do otherwise will skip sticking a procedure phobic four yearold.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:04:48 PM)
I'm glad I found the listserv and this group. I had no idea there were different approaches to CAPD until I joined. O
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:05:08 PM)
ooops. I was going to say ... have any of you read any books on CAPD?
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:05:14 PM)
Your right Kathy...... it is a wonderful forum. I've been on it 1 yr now and have learned a lot. As with all internet based info sources, but have to be careful not to get off on tangents. Sometimes I get ahold of info that really throws off in directions I should not have gone. For example, when my son was 5, somehow I got onto a site that talked about Asperger's Syndrome (high functioning autism), and I swear I convinced my self my son had it!!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:05:23 PM)
not too technical, something easy to read.
Barbara (ID=72) (Feb 20, 2001 9:05:38 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 24.168.127.160)
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:05:53 PM)
hi barbara
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:05:54 PM)
me too laurie but he doesnt
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:06:04 PM)
Hi Barbara.....welcome.
Barbara (ID=72) (Feb 20, 2001 9:06:06 PM)
Hello
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:06:42 PM)
Hi Barbara.
Barbara (ID=72) (Feb 20, 2001 9:06:51 PM)
Hello everyone
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:07:06 PM)
I'm constantly printing stuff off the listserv. My husband thinks I get a little carried away, but he knows it brings be some sanity.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:07:31 PM)
My husband thinks I'm nuts on this stuff too!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:07:46 PM)
I do the same thing Andrea....I just printed out 32 pages the other day....a lot of it on SI.....
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:08:02 PM)
Even though he is generally supportive, he's happy that I'm doing the research, because he simply couldn't --what with his business, dsylexia, etc.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:08:41 PM)
mine is supportive.. he wants me to figure out what we should be doing for your son and make sure that it gets done.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:08:51 PM)
our son
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:08:56 PM)
Yeah, that SI was interesting. I'm still not sure how you help the auditory issues that are SI based. I must reread that section of t he Kranowitz book.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:09:48 PM)
My husband thinks I spend waaaaay to much time on the computer...but, when I tell him that I won't let Travis slip through the cracks, and I'm doing all of this for OUR son, he doesn't say any more!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:09:51 PM)
absolutely, kathy.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:10:06 PM)
yep
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:10:12 PM)
Andrea..... the only APD book I have is pretty technical, but it is loaded with info and I think it is considered highly in the APD world. It is "Central Auditory Processing Disorders:Mostly Managment" by M.Gay Masters, Nancy Stecker, and Jack Katz. I recommend it to everyone. Warning though... it pretty academic... but it gives good managment strategies... plus there is a whole chapter about trying to separate ADD/ADHD and CAPD.
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:10:52 PM)
oh, good. I'll order it.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:11:13 PM)
I say the same thing Kathy.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:11:27 PM)
I've heard of that book...I actually wrote it off the listserv one time....yet, another post it note added to the computer! *L*
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:12:14 PM)
You might try your local library too. As I recall, it wasn't cheap. Around $50.
Barbara (ID=72) (Feb 20, 2001 9:12:31 PM)
I have the same book and gave it to my son's teachers to read
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:12:34 PM)
do ya think amazon or B and N carries the book
Barbara (ID=72) (Feb 20, 2001 9:12:47 PM)
B and N
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:13:01 PM)
Kathy.......I bought it at my local B&N. So I think they would have it online too.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:13:07 PM)
will order later
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:13:34 PM)
hey ladies....IM home!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:13:51 PM)
Hey ya Debbie!!
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:14:02 PM)
Hi Debbie!!
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:14:04 PM)
Deb,,,,I will be in Gainesville on Thursday!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:14:21 PM)
i have learned that if they don't carry it online, to order at the store.. got two out of print books on communication from the store in ten days when online it said six to eight weeks to research of they were available.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:14:24 PM)
Sorry Im so late....I hope Woody told you what was happening
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:14:52 PM)
Debbie....YIPPIE!!!! That must mean Sarah is doing better then, right? I had asked Woody earlier to have you e-mail me tomororw. SOOOO glad you're going!!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:14:57 PM)
Debbie why did chat move to eight from nine
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:15:32 PM)
did something happen to sarah? joined late cant make it a t 8
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:15:38 PM)
I came in late Debbie....I hope everything is ok.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:15:55 PM)
Andrea and Kathy..... chapter 3 of the book is titled: "The Relationship between AD/HD, CAPD, and Specific Learning Disorders." Chapter 11 is titled: "CAP Assessment and Therapeutic Strategies for Children with ADHD."
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:16:00 PM)
Kathy...my schedule at work changed..i know go in at 4:45 am on Wednesday..Im suppose to be in bed at 9 since i get up at 3:30
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:16:10 PM)
Sarah has chicken pox
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:16:46 PM)
What do you do for work at that hour of the morning, debbie?
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:16:49 PM)
good idea to change the time then...poor sarah
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:16:57 PM)
I work for an interenet company
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:16:57 PM)
thanks, LaurieC
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:17:43 PM)
Debbie.....please tell me how you get your energy to do all you do?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:17:51 PM)
Deb..I have been at the hospital with Penny's daughter...Penny is out at the movies tonight and Shelly started having labor pains again! She's got to wait two more weeks before they will let her have the baby
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:18:29 PM)
your plate is a little full Debbie...you are a good friend to many
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:18:31 PM)
Kathy...Sarah is being a trooper! She's doing pretty good considering..she's just hitting the itchy stage
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:19:02 PM)
Debbie....Grandma Penny will be bummed she wasn't there...did it happen after Penny went to the movies? Why are they having her wait 2 more weeks...is she early then?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:19:26 PM)
Kathy..the good Lord has blessed me with some wonderful friends..I'd do anything for any of them and visa versa
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:19:38 PM)
When I had chicken pox as an adult, 25 , they gave me something orally to stop the itch. Made me sleep do you think Sarah is old enough to take something like that? Call the Dr.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:19:56 PM)
she is only 34 weeks along......I"ve not have the chicken pox yet..im just waiting!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:18 PM)
ask if you an hacve the vaccine....
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:30 PM)
you DON'T WANT them
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:31 PM)
debbie, I hope you are immune to them from exposure, I hear they are horrible as an adult
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:45 PM)
the doctor told us to just give her benadryl to help with the itching..she's also using benadryl and caladryl....and taking oatmeal baths
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:49 PM)
My kids took that vaccine. Hopefully they won't get them. I have never had them.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:51 PM)
I think im immune...
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:20:52 PM)
they are horrible
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:21:02 PM)
Have you had them Kathy?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:21:05 PM)
what book were you discussing?
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:21:14 PM)
yes along time ago at age 25
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:21:26 PM)
Not a good age for that disease\
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:21:46 PM)
The "mostly management" book by Katz and co.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:21:58 PM)
I was very sick I got puemonia as asecondary infection. One of the girls I workrd with got them on her lungs and heart....
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:22:06 PM)
So I have 2 books to invest in tomorrow.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:22:07 PM)
Debbie....you'd better wait until after Thursaday! *L* I have to get any, and all info there is on Thurs. for Marge. Marge read over Travis' report,a nd e-mailed me her thoughts...said it was one of the most thourough evals she's seen...was impressed.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:22:21 PM)
That can be dangerous, Kathy
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:22:31 PM)
yup
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:22:43 PM)
vacinate or expose your child
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:04 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 24.88.43.2)
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:05 PM)
the doc will not give me nor kendra the vaccine for three weeks
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:08 PM)
Carol....get a B & N shopping cart!!
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:09 PM)
Deb.....are you talking about a APD assessment?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:19 PM)
hi Marge
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:29 PM)
Hi Marge.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:32 PM)
hi all
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:33 PM)
Mine had the vaccine this year. I had it 6 years ago because of shingles at the hospital I worked at but I now again test negative for antibodies so I need a booster
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:38 PM)
Hi Marge
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:23:52 PM)
Hi Marge
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:02 PM)
Marge!!! Were your ears just ringing? I literally JUST was telling Debbie how AWESOME you are...and, that we have to get you all the info we can on Thursday!
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:06 PM)
I have that book, but I"ve found it is very technical..I enjoy the book by Teri James Belllis....much more understandable for parents
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:08 PM)
my son had the vacine at 12 months three years ago
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:14 PM)
deb, I'm horrible on-line. What is a B&N shopping cart?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:24 PM)
Barnes and Noble
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:27 PM)
Debbie.....what is the name of the Bellis book?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:37 PM)
deb: my ears ALWAYS ring... no news there... but hahaha, i just got 2 kids in bed... 2 more to go
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:24:39 PM)
Oh
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:25:03 PM)
MArge.......you crack me up!
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:25:07 PM)
Assessment and Management of CAPD in the educational setting
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:25:13 PM)
Funny Marge!
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:26:03 PM)
Thanks Debbie......I'll look that one up. The Mostly Managment book is very technical, but I do refer to it quite a bit.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:26:48 PM)
Just to let everyone know...the plans for the Conference in August are coming along well.....We are looking at August 25th which is a Saturday...I should begoing to Orlando next week to confirm a conference center
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:02 PM)
Has anyone on chat tonite had experience with neuropsych testing?
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:03 PM)
thank you
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:07 PM)
What conference, may I ask?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:21 PM)
deb & debbie: what is the conference you're going to this week? i hadn't heard anything about it
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:35 PM)
Andrea, The NCAPD is holding it's first parent oriented conference in Orlando in August.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:40 PM)
Debbie......WOW!!! Let me know when you're going....maybe I can meet you there.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:57 PM)
Marge the symposium we are attending is by Dr Jay Hall.....it will be at U of F
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:27:58 PM)
debbie: that is fantastic that you are holding a conference... orlando in august... you should be able to get a big discount, i would think?\
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:00 PM)
No neuropsych testing yet, although the last S/L we saw suggested we do it within the next couple of years
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:14 PM)
Deb...probably on Monday..depending on Sarah
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:16 PM)
maybe the forest fire will be gone by then I and I can drive I-4
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:19 PM)
That would be great to meet up!
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:34 PM)
wow! i'd love to go! but I'm in NJ.
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:42 PM)
debbie, for us who can't go will there be anything in writing or on-line about what happens
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:28:43 PM)
laurieC: a neuropsych can identify areas of deficiency BUT they are not doctors and they cannot tell you what, medically, is causing the problem
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:29:06 PM)
Carol, Im sure there will be....but at this time I can not say what all will be available.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:29:17 PM)
laurieC: also, neuropsychs are not usually also audiologists so they can't rule out hearing loss as a source of trouble
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:29:27 PM)
I'd love to go too. I'd love to try to get more public awareness of APD in our local district.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:29:28 PM)
HOpefully this si the first of continuing conferences
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:29:40 PM)
Debbie....I'll let you know....plus, you let me know your for sure date once you know....hmmmm....does that make any sense?!
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:30:02 PM)
what's bad deb is i perfectly understood what you said *L*
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:30:11 PM)
what time will you be in gainesville on thursday?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:30:23 PM)
laurieC: "source of trouble": meaning that to a neuropsych, probably hearing loss "looks" the same as APD
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:30:54 PM)
laurieC: on the other hand, the neuropsych should also pick up any vision or motor control problems... things that the aud evaluation will overlook
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:30:58 PM)
Debbie....*LOL*.....we're able to understand each others sometimes 'garble'....a good thing, right?! *L*
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:11 PM)
I'm sorry, I have to go read to the tribe. School days are easier all around
Carol (ID=66) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:22 PM)
I'll be here next Tues. morning.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:28 PM)
gnite carol! reading to the tribe is a good thing :-)
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:36 PM)
Debbie, Is there a master list to find out about the conferences.. I would have gone to Gainesville Thurs if I knwew ahead of time.
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:36 PM)
goodnight Carol
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:46 PM)
Debbie....I'm planning on leaving the house at 7 AM, so I should be there at 8...what time for you?
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:55 PM)
goodnite carol
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:31:58 PM)
Nite Carol!
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:32:04 PM)
I"m goign to try and be there by 8 also..and this is where we met the first time
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:32:26 PM)
Kathy..not at this time and i haven't had a chance to put up a listing on website..that is one goal!!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:32:35 PM)
Yes..this time, we're SUPPOSED to be there!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:32:45 PM)
thank you
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:32:53 PM)
what happened last time? you show up at a professional meeting "by accident"?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:18 PM)
we met at the wrong hotel...but we pretty much knew where the other one was
Andrea (ID=69) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:21 PM)
I need to go to bed, too. Goodnite all.
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:29 PM)
nite
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:29 PM)
goodnight Andrea
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:31 PM)
Marge....I told Debbie and Travis' teacher to go to one place, and it was actually somewhere else...ooops!!
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:37 PM)
debbie: hahaha glad you made connections anyway
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:40 PM)
gnite andrea
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:43 PM)
Goodnight Andrea!
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:33:49 PM)
Marge.....we just had neuropsych testing done. From my view point, it was great info to have to learn about my son's cognitive strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand, the psych said "there is not evidence that an auditory processing disorders is present." This contradicts what the aud determined giving my son a battery of CAP tests (using the pass/fail approach).
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:34:00 PM)
Deb and I always have a way of finding each other.......somewhere!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:34:34 PM)
Yep....we have "Deb to Deb" sonar I think!
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:34:36 PM)
laurie C: sounds like you'll need to get yet another opinion... what are your plans?
debbie (ID=68) (Feb 20, 2001 9:34:41 PM)
be right back everyone...i have to log out a sec...
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:34:48 PM)
deb, debbie: y'all know about cell phones, right??
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:35:10 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.172.255.167)
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:35:16 PM)
i'm back!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:35:16 PM)
wHAT EXACTLY IS THE TOPIC ON THURSDAY AND is pre-registration necessary
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:35:33 PM)
wb debbie... i was just wondering if you & deb knew abt cell phones. works better than "sonar" :-)
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:05 PM)
husband has voluntered to take the day off to child sit so I could drive up
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:06 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.161.209.248)
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:13 PM)
Well.... I have reports from an aud, slp, neuropsych, and developmental optometrist to rule out VPD. Not sure if I need more evals or not. We are trying to manage my son's inattention problems in the classroom.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:14 PM)
hi PL
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:24 PM)
Hi Marge
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:32 PM)
Marge...on our very first meeting, we both took our hubbys cell phones...and she called me when she was close to where we "thought" we were supposed to meet....finally, I'm standing on a corner, jumping up and down, as I see her and Penny driving down the street! We do need to take the cell phones when we meet each other!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:45 PM)
Hi Pl....
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:56 PM)
kathy..im looking at the flyer...just a sec
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:36:56 PM)
Hi deb
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:37:22 PM)
Hi PL.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:37:24 PM)
deb: that is FUNNY!!! jumping up & down so you can see each other!!! ROTFL!!! because you didn't know what the other one looked like, since you'd only met on the internet right?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:37:39 PM)
Thursday's symposium is about how aging affects auditory processing..but many of the issues faced are similar to the young....
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:37:42 PM)
laurieC: wow, that is a lot of testing... your little guy is probably sick of it just now, eh?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:37:52 PM)
pre-registration is not required
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:37:53 PM)
Marge....You got it!!! It was tooooooo funny!!!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:38:19 PM)
hi PL
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:38:46 PM)
Marge it was a riot...I know I can say I felt an instant friendship with deb.....
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:38:46 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.161.209.248)
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:38:47 PM)
laurieC: what kind of problems did your son show on the audiologist's tests that made him think of APD?
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:38:47 PM)
(This user has moved to CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.161.209.248)
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:38:57 PM)
aging as in from 4 to 14 or as in 15 to 60
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:39:00 PM)
Hi debbie
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:39:17 PM)
hmm kathy good point... probably 15 to 60 i would think
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:39:23 PM)
Actually Marge he has been a real trooper. He is such a compliant child.....he wants to please everyone. He'll fall through a crack at school if I don't advocate for him.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:39:25 PM)
Me too...we just clicked from the very first hug!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:39:58 PM)
it says aging..and I think it's referring to older people...but as people's auditory processing diminishes as they get older..they would face some of the same issue as our kids as their system matures
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:20 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 206.25.218.145)
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:25 PM)
debbie: yes, older folks often have trouble with background noise, even if they have perfect audiograms
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:38 PM)
Hi Mel....
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:41 PM)
Marge.....I don't have the scoring, but he "failed" the Dichotic Digits test, SSW, SCAN screen, plus a few others.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:44 PM)
debbie: i've accumulated a lot of papers about hearing & aging along my quest for info re: APD
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:49 PM)
hi mel
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:50 PM)
thanks
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:51 PM)
I've also heard so much about James Jergerthat I am very interested in hearing him speak
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:40:55 PM)
Hi!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:02 PM)
hi Mel..
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:12 PM)
Hi Debbie...
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:13 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.161.188.175)
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:22 PM)
Hi Mel.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:24 PM)
Kathy..if you are interested in meeting us there..that would be great!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:24 PM)
Hi Diane
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:27 PM)
Dr. Jerger is one of the Exalted Ones of audiology. hugely famous guy, with a well deserved reputation from what i've heard
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:29 PM)
hi diane
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:30 PM)
Hi Diane
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:41 PM)
hi Diane,
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:41 PM)
Kathy....yes, please try and come!!!
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 9:41:42 PM)
Hi everyone
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:08 PM)
This is my first time in....interested in seeing what goes on here. Have lots of questions! My daughter was diagnosed with CAPD last month.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:15 PM)
James Jerger led the consensus conference on APD last year out in Texas,,his repuation is outstanding.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:21 PM)
Mel..how old is your daughter?
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:22 PM)
I'll e-mail you tomorrow if I am coming. How much$
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:27 PM)
11
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:28 PM)
Marge..... Dr. Jerger must be the guy Dr. J was referring to when he recently spoke of the "texas consensus statement" on the list? He is at the Univ of Texas at Dallas, right?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:35 PM)
debbie: wanna ask dr. hall a question in my name at the conference? ask him what effect he thinks aging has upon the connective tissues of the cochlea
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:36 PM)
Mine to Mel, and I am trying to determine if my daughter has it
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:43 PM)
laurieC: yes, correct
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:43 PM)
Kathy....Zip, right Debbie?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:42:49 PM)
the flyer says....for non_UF students..it's $20.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:43:06 PM)
welcome mel!! just jump right in!!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:43:12 PM)
when does itr start in the am?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:43:19 PM)
LaurieC..yes that is hwo he was speaking of.
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:43:27 PM)
School suspected, said they could get the testing done there but would be next fall at the earliest. We decided to go private.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:43:36 PM)
I believe Dr Moncrieff did her disertation under him
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:43:39 PM)
welcome PL!! you jump on in, too... don't worry about interrupting anyone :-) chat is very free flowing... like a reception or cocktail party :-)
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:44:14 PM)
Kathy....registration is from8:30 to 9...says lunch is on our own
PL (ID=75) (Feb 20, 2001 9:44:21 PM)
LOL, ty, am just beginning to learn, kinda am gonna sit and read
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:44:25 PM)
laurieC: was the audiologist the first person you saw for your son? I'm wondering if he got poor scores on the tests simply because the whole testing thing was so new to him
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:44:58 PM)
Marge....I wrote down your question for Dr. Hall....will ask him on Thurs.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:45:11 PM)
laurieC: i am on my school's hearing & vision screening committee... you'd be surprised the number of kids who flunk their 1st vision screen who pass with flying colors the 2nd time... they are uncomfortable w/testing at first, but get used to it
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:45:33 PM)
Debbie I'll let you know I will have to leave here by 6:30 I know that doesn't sound early to someone who has to work at 4:30 but...
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:45:53 PM)
She has been having problems since kindergarten. The resource teacher asked permission to have some test done by the school speech pathologist. I am so glad someone was able to finally point us in the right direction.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:01 PM)
Kathy..that is early...IM not a morning person by any stretch of the imagination....
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:22 PM)
Marge on that note would it be helpful for n\my son to have a TAPS test done by school SLP before he sees audioligist
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:24 PM)
Kathy.....I'm leaving at &....come on....meet us there! Is that enought presure, or do you need more?!?! *L*
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:27 PM)
Mel...... so a private audiologist tested your child?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:35 PM)
Mel..is your daughter recieving any assistance from school now?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:36 PM)
deb: there's a guy named Schucknect (not spelled right)... he did a BIG special issue for one of the ENT journals about the effects of aging on the cochlea... said that connective tissue changes would lead to a smoothly-sloping loss... i'm not so sure about that, based on what I've seen with the connective tissue syndromes.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:38 PM)
PL......... has your child been tested yet?
Paula (ID=78) (Feb 20, 2001 9:46:41 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP = 172.161.209.248)
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:47:02 PM)
Kathy...that was supposed to say I'm leaving at 7....sorry!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:47:14 PM)
I will probably leave by 6
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:47:24 PM)
mel: an slp can do testing that says "i suspect there is a problem", but they don't have the equipment to be able to diagnose APD... have you seen an audiologist re: APD diagnosis??
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:47:36 PM)
I figured that out... boy that is scary ok
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:47:56 PM)
Kathy..if you can come to the conference that is great...I know I'd just enjoy meeting you and putting a face with a name!!
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:47:56 PM)
diane: i'm not familiar with theTAPS
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:16 PM)
Kathy...ut oh.....I think that qualifies you to join the club then!
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:34 PM)
Test for auditory processing skills=TAPS
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:40 PM)
Kathy and Deb....it's the florida connection *LOL*
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:45 PM)
me too boy does this mean our schedule is flexible. I am supposed to see my parents on Thursday will have to see If I can change that to Sat.
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:47 PM)
Yes, she was tested by an audiologist back in December in Columbia, SC. She has been going to resource for a few years now with only minor results.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:49 PM)
diane: if you can explain the test to me, i could tell you whether it would give the audiologist additional useful data
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:48:55 PM)
Not sure Marge....actually the first person to suspect APD was a SLP who screened him using the Robert Keith SCAN. My son also had language processing issues complicating things.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:05 PM)
Yep.....that's us!
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:07 PM)
mel: columbia SC... would that be at the medical university of south carolina?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:20 PM)
mel: whoops, no that is in charleston
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:29 PM)
Right across the street at Midland Hearing Associates...
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:30 PM)
I have no idea what the test includes it was mentioned that she could do it
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:31 PM)
brb... 2 more kids to put to bed
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:49:34 PM)
for more information on the Robert Keith scan...see his new website that was just launched .....www.capdtest.com
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:50:15 PM)
There is a "Medical" USC building across the street where my daughter was seen.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:50:20 PM)
the website outlines various tests i believe...but what is cool is it has a "case a month" page......where it outlines one child's case...
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:51:50 PM)
Thanks debbie for that site. I'll check it out.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:52:15 PM)
Dr Keith emailed me the end of last week to let me knwo it was up and running
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 9:52:33 PM)
Debbie...that sounds like a great site....I'll have to check it out as well.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:52:45 PM)
I've only looked through it briefly.....want to spend more time on it....
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:52:48 PM)
Mel....... did the audiologist give you a written report with results and recommendations?
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:53:08 PM)
Really worried now, she will be going to middle school in the fall. I met with them today to try to get a feel of whether she should just go to resource for spelling, english, reading and math or go self-contained for all subjects. She is really struggling now that we've gotten to the middle of the year and the subjects are getting harder.
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:54:18 PM)
Mel...... has any psychoed testing been done to rule in or out a learning disability? Does she have an IEP?
Mel (ID=76) (Feb 20, 2001 9:55:25 PM)
Yes, I got the results back the first of January. She has problems with sequencing, short term memory loss, etc.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:55:48 PM)
mel: reason I ask is because Dr. Judy Dubno at MUSC in Charleston has an excellent reputation... dunno what her take is on APD... but she is a very solid audiologist
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:56:07 PM)
By the way ladies.....if you haven't checked out the www.ldonline.org website, it is a MUST for parents of children having difficulties at school.
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 9:57:00 PM)
debbie: thanks for info re: capdtest.com
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 9:57:26 PM)
Marge......did I ever tell you my son has a little girl in his class who sits next to him that has a cochlear implant? She was deaf at birth. Her speech abilities are very good .
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 9:57:41 PM)
you are welcome marge
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:10 PM)
hello?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:16 PM)
thought the chat broke again!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:17 PM)
Deb and Debbie were is the conference exactly, do I need to call ahead andhow will i find you
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:17 PM)
i'm here
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:32 PM)
i was waiting for someone to finish their epistle :-)
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:43 PM)
Ooops....took a nap I think! *L*
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:48 PM)
no I just figured everyone had go to the bathroom or something
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:54 PM)
kathy: hahahah
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:00:58 PM)
Marge TAPS stands for Test of auditory processing skills
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:01:21 PM)
anyone heard of it ?
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:01:32 PM)
Kathy....I'm waiting for my hubby to bring me my popcorn actually!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:01:32 PM)
Conference is at Universtiy Centre Hotel which is located at 1535 SW ARcher Road directly across from Shands
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:02:11 PM)
isn't the TAPS a test used by Lindamood Bell program?
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:02:26 PM)
I have no idea debbie
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:02:29 PM)
diane: thanks for decoding the abbreviation... i'm not so familiar with the slp 's tests for auditory discrim... i know my way around several of the audiological tests... absolutely crucial to be sure there is not even a little hearing loss that could skew the results on ANY speech test
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:02:47 PM)
deb: ahhh, that's the life :-)
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:02:49 PM)
just a sec..i think i have a webstie related to the TAPs
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:03:18 PM)
thanks Marge :) That would be great debbie :)
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:03:35 PM)
Marge....I'm still waiting though....I'll have to have a little chat with him when he brings it in! *L*
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:03:51 PM)
I got the referral yesterday for the audiologist
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:04:08 PM)
deb: maybe he can give your back a good massage to make up for his lateness :-)
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:04:32 PM)
Now to get an appt
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:04:40 PM)
diane: for sure, go see the audiologist. if need be, the slp can run the TAPS after you finish with the aud
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:04:47 PM)
Marge....ahhhh, now that sounds like a great idea! I like your thinking Marge!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:04:55 PM)
sorry..links i had were for TOPA and LAC
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:05:15 PM)
they were in information a parent sent me that is on my website
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:05:19 PM)
darn :( Thanks for checking tho
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:05:34 PM)
debbie: those sound like military programs "Tactical Operations Provisioning Armament"
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:05:52 PM)
LAC: Lateral Airlift Command
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:05:57 PM)
well dont it seem like we are always at war? *L*
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:06:10 PM)
oh ya
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:06:12 PM)
LOL debbie so true
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:06:14 PM)
debbie: hoo boy
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 10:06:22 PM)
Diane..... one thing I've learned on the list is that not all audiologists do CAPD testing. Who referred you to the aud?
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:06:31 PM)
Marge....you really are funny! Sure you can't make it on Thurs.?!?!
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:06:52 PM)
deb: alas, i am sure i can't make it on thurs!!!
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:07:25 PM)
I got it from another parents website he is with IU Med center here Dr Michael Wynne and he supposedly specializes in APD
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:07:29 PM)
OK , then AUgust!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:07:29 PM)
perhaps marge should start planning now for august conference
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:07:51 PM)
where are you marge?
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:07:52 PM)
deb, debbie: another thing to know abt hearing in old folks... they have poorer consonant discrim than younger adults, even when they have the same audiogram shape
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:07:59 PM)
kathy: metro atlanta
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:08:07 PM)
He is with the childrens hosp affiliated with the university
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:08:11 PM)
diane: IU= Indiana Univ?
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:08:14 PM)
too far for thursday
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:08:24 PM)
Yes Marge
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 10:08:25 PM)
Diane......great...sounds like you are in good hands.
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:08:52 PM)
Riley Hospital for Children
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:09:57 PM)
deb, debbie: many, many parallels to what is labelled APD in kids... really makes you wonder if some varieties of APD are not just subtle types of peripheral hearing loss
LaurieC (ID=67) (Feb 20, 2001 10:10:25 PM)
Well girls.... gotta run put the munchkins to bed. Good talking to everyone! See you on the list!
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:10:37 PM)
gnite laurie... good luck w/the munchkins
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:10:37 PM)
goodnight LaurieC...see you next week
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:10:39 PM)
Night laurie :)
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:10:39 PM)
nite lauriec
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:04 PM)
Marge....Really? Boy, you would sooooo enjoy Thursday Marge. But, I will get whatever info for you that I can.
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:13 PM)
Night Laurie!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:16 PM)
well ladies..im going to head to bed too......
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:30 PM)
gnite debbie
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:42 PM)
deb: thank you VERY VERY much
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:44 PM)
night Debbie.I will try to figure out how to find you on Thursdya
Diane (ID=77) (Feb 20, 2001 10:11:46 PM)
I need to go too we are fighting the flu here and i need to hit the hay just wanted to say hi,....see you next week
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:12:02 PM)
yeah, i'm about spent too... gnite all ... nice to chat w/you
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:12:03 PM)
Actually, I need to go as well.....Marge, I will let you know how Thursday goes.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:12:14 PM)
Kathy..I have red hair and i'm only about 5;3:....if we nknow you are going to be there..we can arrange a place to meet
Marge (ID=73) (Feb 20, 2001 10:12:16 PM)
yes, i am so looking forward to your report
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:12:20 PM)
good night then everyone....
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:12:31 PM)
Kathy...e-mail me if you need directions.....Debstanschott01@cs.com
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:13:13 PM)
Thanks I am pretty sure I'll be there
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:13:25 PM)
will e-mail you if not
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:13:33 PM)
looking forward to seeing you !! Look on the website tomorrow for a pic if i can get it up..doing a board of directors page
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:13:48 PM)
Sounds good |Kathy...!
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:13:51 PM)
will e-mail you both my cell nuumber so I can find you if I get lost
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:07 PM)
Debbie...I'll talk to you sometime tomorrow...K?
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:10 PM)
i'll have to try and take woody's cell...we'll be in touch via email tomorrow!!!!!
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:15 PM)
will do deb...
Kathy (ID=71) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:17 PM)
see ya thurdsay
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:36 PM)
Don't know if I can get Stans cell phone...I'll ask him.
debbie (ID=74) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:36 PM)
goodnight!
deb (ID=70) (Feb 20, 2001 10:14:46 PM)
Nite nite!
