"We brought our tattoo artist out on the road with us, and he's tattooing everyone in Sugar Ray," says John Rzeznik, a touch of wry humor in his voice. Sounds pretty kinky. Ah, the life of a rock star, you say. Babes. Limos. Tattoos. Cool haircuts. Thousands of adoring fans. Your own fashion spread in Rolling Stone. Sounds like a bowl of cherries, no?
But if you're John Rzeznik, vocalist/guitarist and main songwriter with punk-pop icons the Goo Goo Dolls, then you're probably not buying into any of that shit. Hell, you're from Buffalo, the city of no illusions. And, if you're in a band and you never get it together enough to hit the road, probably the city of no future as well. So, if success comes your way, it's doubtful you'd approach it with anything other than a wary skepticism and a clear head.
That's what growing up a musician in Buffalo will do for you, it seems. LA this ain't, by any stretch of the imagination. It's tough, it's gritty, there aren't many places to play where you can make a decent buck - or even a buck of any sort, for that matter. And it often seems like people just don't give a shit.
Still, suffering builds character, as they say, and people who attempt to eke out some sort of career on the margins of Buffalo's cultural life tend to have character by the butt-load by the time they "make it," if indeed they ever do.
John Rzeznik did make it. It took the Goo Goo Dolls - originally, Rzeznik, bassist/vocalist Robbie Takac, and drummer George Tutuska - more than a decade to break out in a big way. Along the way, they worked their asses off, playing to anybody who'd listen, often for little of no money. They stuck to their guns musically, although their raw-edged pop-punk developed into intelligent, well-crafted pop with an edge along the way. Over the course of their struggle, relationships were strained, both personal and otherwise; Tutuska and the band parted company; their record label screwed them; and so on and so on.
But instead of feeling sorry for themselves, Rzeznik and Takac soldiered on. They added drummer Mike Malinin, and ultimately broke through the cloak of anonymity on the strength of the moving acoustic-based introspective anthem "Name" from the 1996 release A Boy Named Goo.
The work ethic Rzeznik and Takac picked up in Buffalo set them in good stead as they hopped on the rollercoaster of massive popularity. Down to earth, affable, and genuinely excited about the continual unfolding of his art, Rzeznik is a rare breed among the modern rock gene pool.
But what effect did growing up in Buffalo, working day gigs, and playing the Continental for no money, have on his development as a musician? Does he carry it with him still?
"Yeah, definitely. I mean, you carry it with you all the time. I'm really proud of where we come from. Looking back, I'm really glad that we had to eat a lot of shit to get everything that we got. Because it teaches you to have a hard work ethic, and to keep going. Of course, we remember everything we went through. The Continental was great, you know. But it has certainly been an uphill battle. And I don't regret that.
"For us, failing at this was never an option. Whenever somebody told us we couldn't do something, we did it. And that continues to this day. People tell us we can't do lots of things, and we do 'em all the time. That, I believe, is a direct result of where we come from and what we've gone through."
Instead of wallowing in bitterness over the cynicism that is part and parcel of the music industry, Rzeznik and Takac have allied themselves with a pair of cutting-edge charities, in an attempt to give something back to the fans who have enabled them to make it as far as they have. USA harvest and the PAX youth petition both seek to remedy social and economic injustices though grassroots means. Did Rzeznik feel a responsibility to become involved in this kind of stuff, considering the troubled background he emerged from?
"Certainly, yeah. I think that when you've been lucky enough to get all the things that we've been lucky enough to get - you know, like to actually have a career! (laughs) - that's something that a lot of bands don't get to have. Many bands have one hit, and then they're gone. We've been lucky enough to have a career. We're drawing a lot of people to come and see us, and I think at that point, you have a responsibility to try and do the right thing.
"But in a small way, y'know, it's like, all I'm doin' is asking people, I'm not really doing anything except asking. And the response that people have give us have just been amazing. The response to both USA Harvest and PAX has been great.
"What it comes down to is, we really dig all the kids who come and see us play, we care about them. Y'know, fifteen years ago, when I was a teenager, it was tough enough. I mean, it sucked, it was rough. But I couldn't even imagine a kid carrying a gun to school. And there wasn't gang violence like there is now. It just seems like it's tougher for kids to just be teenagers, and not have to give up their innocence so much sooner than I had to." Yeah, although he didn't exactly have it easy himself...
"Well, yeah, but it was different then. It really was. I didn't have crack, and gangs, and AIDS staring me in the face all the time. I think that certainly makes kids grow up a lot faster than even I had to. I think it makes them a lot more responsible at a much earlier age. But with that comes the downside, of never really getting to live in any sort of innocence. The numbers keep increasing, of kids who have to deal with having only one parent, of not really having any kind of significant family structure. The most important thing, I believe, is for people to know that they're not alone. They have to know that other people have been through these things, and are going through them now.
"Teenagers don't wanna' say nothin' because they gotta' be cool, y'know? So I think it's really important that they hang together and support each other. That's what rock-n-roll is about, in so many ways; offering comfort, letting people know they aren't alone, giving some kind of sense of community. And that's also what a lot of these charitable groups are about as well. Finding support for things that they have common interests in.
We got involved with Harvest USA first. And then we wanted to get involved with some gun-control groups after what happened at Columbine. So what happened was, we got solicited by MTV to give out these CDs, which were called Fight For Your Right, which were part of an anti-violence campaign that MTV is doing. Everything that we wanted to do, as far as gun-control groups, and assisting people who have been victims of domestic violence and sexual abuse and things like that, it was all kind of encapsulated in the Action Guide that MTV put together. So we just sorta' put the two things together and, then when Levis became the sponsor of this summer's tour, we had them make a charity t-shirt, the proceeds from which go directly to PAX. Levis was generous enough to give us one dollar for every signature we got on the big denim wall we have at the shows. I think we got around 50,000 signatures so far.
"It's really cool, the generosity of the people who've been coming out to the shows. It's been great. WE offered a great show this summer, too. We have the second stage, where independent bands get a chance to play for people who might not otherwise get a chance to see them. It's something that, now that we've had the opportunity to do it, I wish someone would have done for us.
"You know, everyone is so worried about their own little position that nobody wants to give you a break! I think it's important to try to help the younger bands out. It's part of giving something back. And since it came so hard on us, we're very aware of that."
In keeping with that philosophy, the Goos looked to Buffalo when it came time to flesh out their touring band. People have respected that, especially since Buffalo seems to get shit a lot in the media. Certainly, the band could've looked to LA, New York - hell, anywhere - for potential bandmates. Instead, they kept it local. So how has the band changed since adding keyboardist Dave Schultz, a Buffalo music community veteran?
"Hmmmm, let's see how the band has changed. (laughs) I think since Dave has joined the band, we've all started drinking more! No, I'm just kidding, of course. Dave added another level of musicality to the band. He is by far the most brilliant musician I've ever played with. And Nathan, our guitarist, solidified the foundation of the group, which is Mike Malinin and Robbie. So, the really complex stuff that I always had a tough time playing and singing together, I just handed over to Nathan, and had him do it! For me, playing guitar and singing is, in a lot of instances, like walking and chewing gum. I've got a lot of trouble with it! So he ends up doing a lot of the great stuff. He has really solidified the foundation.
"We looked to Buffalo because there's a great talent pool in town. We're really glad we did. I think, live, we're now one of the best rock bands out there. It's just big, and heavy, and it's a rock-n-roll show. We've put together a real nice show. And we're putting together something really spectacular for when we get to come back home! I can't talk about it yet, but it's going to be awesome!"
Part of what has made the Goos so special and endeared the hearts of Buffalonians since the beginning is their ability to blend the raucous, irreverent punk ethic - as anyone who ever caught them at the Continental will remember - with what has increasingly become a more refined pop sensibility. So how did the band that made Jed develop into the band known for creating well-orchestrated pop gems like "Iris" and "We Are The Normal?"
"Interesting. Well, it's like, the guys that made Jed are ten years older. You've gotta write what you feel. So what I'm writing about these days is what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling now. Let's just face it - the truth is not always clever, if you know what I mean! The truth about what you go through can often be just as profound, when expressed in simpler terms. I get a lot of shit from critics about that. But a lot of my songs are pretty personal, and sometimes I think that fucks people up. Yet the crowds keep getting bigger, which leads me to believe that there's some commonality at work here.
"I've been afforded the luxury to keep doin' what I'm doin,' so I think it's just been a natural progression for me as a writer, and for us as a band. If you listen to Jed, and then listen to Hold Me Up, and then listen to Superstar Carwash, and listen to A Boy Named Goo, and then Dizzy Up the Girl, there is a progression. If you understand all the material, then it makes sense. But today, the thin I'm proudest of is the fact that we've been able to cut across so many boundaries in music that people put up for themselves. Everything's gotta' be this, or that, or the other thing, and everyone's in these tiny little fractions. I think what I'm most proud of is that we've been able to get around that."
But just how did they pull it off? The music industry isn't exactly known for opening its arms to artists who desire to exist outside of easily marketable trends, and stylistic niches.
"The key is to just write songs. I mean, who cares what people think if you write a good song, and you stay true to what you're thinking, people will more than likely dig it. I mean, I'm not naming any names, but I know a lotta' bands who wanted to get record deals when Metal was in fashion. And they didn't get one, so when Alternative was in vogue, they cut their hair off and started playing that, and didn't get a deal. And now, this hip-hop metal thing is big, so everybody's doing that!"
What does Rzeznik, who's forged his career on playing honest, direct, non-formulaic rock, think of this latest craze, which is increasingly being referred to Asshole Rock?
"I'm just not into people who are in love with the concept of being famous. Good music speaks for itself. People don't buy bullshit trend-hopping forever. It's like all that shit - getting to to play in front of a lot of people, etc., should remain a by-product of doing a job well. And if you go no further than the garage, enjoy that time, and love it for that. But love what you play. That the most important thing."
Rock artist as a job to be pursued with dignity and integrity? Sounds more like a Springsteen ethic than anything you might hear from a modern rock band with videos in heavy rotation on MTV. Yet Rzeznik proves himself to be a deviant from the norm in this case too, in that he approaches his songwriting as a craftsman, and he's eager to accept the responsibility that comes along with that idea.
"Absolutely, I believe that. I think that's one of the things that I carried over from my upbringing in Buffalo, and sort of applied to my own songwriting and career. The idea that inspiration is the spark, and then you have to work it. There comes a time when you have to let the songs lead you for a while, you have to let the ideas lead you to some place that's solid and more tangible. And then you have to start crafting the material into something. And a lot of that is bending and shaping. But you have to do it in a natural and organic way. You can't force it.
"That's why there was so much space between albums for us. Between A Boy Named A Goo and Dizzy.., there was a lot of stress to go through, there was a lot of life lessons to learn. And I wasn't about to push myself into a situation that I couldn't handle, emotionally or musically.
"And the ability to see that and be able to do tha thas a lot to do with how I grew up, and where I grew up. I can definitely see how havin' a hit right outta' the box, and making so money, and having the temptations put in front of you that are put in front you when you have a job like this - that can really fuck your head up. Especially if you're young and you're don't know how to deal with it. Don't get me wrong, I like to have fun. But I'm not obsessed with fame, or with being a rock star or any of that crap, cuz that goes away, man.
People ask me pretty frequently, 'You guys have gotten so big -
aren't
you worried about the fall?' And I always say, well, what makes you
think
that I don't have enough self respect and common sense to know when
it's
time
for me to get down and walk away? I'm gonna climb down and walk away
when I
know it's time. With my life and most of my sanity left! (laughs) it
doesn't
have to be this constant tragedy. We were doin' this VH1 Behind the
Music
thing, and they tend to focus on the tragic elements of an artists's
career.
But I was like, dude, there's no tragedy here!"
Amen.
