Formed in the mid '80s, the Buffalo, New York-based Goo Goo Dolls hovered at the fringes of commercial success for more than a decade before breaking through to platinum sales. From the start, the group steered toward a power-pop style that made them critical darlings, but it was a beautiful acoustic ballad, titled "Name," that launched the band into the land of stardom. Since 1995, the year "Name" ascended the pop charts, the group has enjoyed a flurry of hits, and has garnered a reputation as one of America's most musically consistent bands.
The Goo Goo Doll's beginnings can be traced to 1985, when 19-year-old aspiring guitarist Johnny Rzeznik was introduced to 20-year-old bassist Robby Takac. The two became fast friends and, after recruiting schoolmate George Tutuska to play drums, decided to form their own group. Taking their name from an advertisement in the back pages of TRUE DETECTIVE magazine, the Goo Goo Dolls began performing in small clubs in and around Buffalo. Though at first specialized in off-beat covers of songs by such artists as Prince and Creedence Clearwater Revival, the band soon began writing original material, most of which was penned by Rzeznik.
Release in 1987 and 1989, respectively, the Goo Goo Dolls' first two albums mixed the band's own songs with a smattering of covers. Both releases generated a buzz among critics, but it was the group's 1990 efforts, HOLD ME UP, which made them a force to be reckoned with on the alternative scene. Freewheeling and spirited, the album triggered favorable comparisons to the Replacements, a band Rzeznik had often cited as an influence. Unfortunately, however, record sales were not commensurate with the accolades the group received in print.
More critical raves accompanied the Goo Goo Dolls' next album, SUPERSTAR CAR WASH, which was released in 1993. Despite the inclusion of one song ("We Are The Normal"), co-written by former Replacements frontman Paul Westerberg, the album sold only modestly, and Rzeznik began contemplating a change of career. As he later told GUITAR WORLD magazine, "I didn't want to be a 35-year-old guy playing bars. It's so sad to see these guys in their late thirties who...still believe they're going to get the big record deal." Fortunately, the Goo Goo Dolls' next album, A BOY NAMED GOO, scuttled any inclination Rzeznik might've had to seek other employment. Commercially, the 1995 release got off to a slow start, but when influential L.A. radio station KROQ put the Rzeznik-penned acoustic ballad, "Name," into heavy rotation, public interest in the band began to take hold. Originally, the Goo Goo Dolls' record company hadn't planned to release the song as a single, but so dramatic was listener response that the label quickly opted to go with the flow. By the time the year was out, the Goo Goo Dolls had their first platinum album.
Pleased though the group was at its good fortune, pain and controversy soon followed in the wake of the success. First, in the weeks immediately prior to the release of A BOY NAMED GOO, Rzeznik and Takac decided to fire drummer George Tutuska. (The mild-manner Mike Malinin was quietly recruited as Tutuska's replacement.) Equally distressing, Rzeznik and Takac discovered they were in the grips of a slavish contract that allotted them only a paltry percentage of album sales. A nine-month legal battle with the band's record company, Metal Blade, ensued, and ultimately a settlement was reached that freed the group from its contract. Subsequently, the Goo Goo Dolls signed with Warner Brothers Records.
Largely as a result of this turmoil, as the Goo Goo Dolls approached the making of their next album, Rzeznik found himself in the throes of a harrowing writer's block. Only when the group's management company (which is also involved in film work) asked Rzeznik to write a song fro the film, CITY OF ANGELS, did the cloud begin to lift. After attending a screening of the movie, Rzeznik went home and wrote the poignant ballad, "Iris," in a matter of hours. (The song's title, incidentally--though not the song itself--was inspired by country singer-songwriter Iris Dement.)
The biggest single of 1998 for Warner Music, "Iris" became the Goo Goo Dolls' first #1 hit, and helped kindle anticipation for the group's next full-length CD. In September of last year, the band released DIZZY UP THE GIRL, which became their second platinum-selling album.
Their recent fame and success notwithstanding, the members of the Goo Goo Dolls remain humble. Though "Iris" garnered three Grammy nominations--for Record of the Year, Song of the Year, and Best Pop Performance by a Duo or Group With Vocal--Rzeznik insists that he's most proud of the fat that the band has remained true to its roots. Recently he told the Australian magazine, SANITY: "I'm happy that the Goo Goo Dolls wasn't put together by a producer or a record company guy. We were just three kids wanting to make some noise, hang out, and have some fun. I think the band is playing stronger than it ever has, and I'm excited about the future."
WHAT SORT OF MUSIC WAS AROUND THE HOUSE, WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP?
Mostly it was my older sisters' albums. There was a lot of Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks. And some Yes albums, oddly enough. But then the youngest of my older sisters started getting into punk, so I began picking up on bands like the Sex Pistols and the Clash.
WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR STRONG SENSE OF MELODY COMES FROM?
I think a lot of that comes from listening to AM radio when I was growing up. There was a radio station in Buffalo--WKBW--that played all the hits. This was in the early '70s. By around 1980, I was getting into other kinds of music. This was after I discovered FM radio. I listened to a lot of Cheap Trick and Kiss. People don't often realize it, but Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons were really great songwriters. Kiss' songs had great hooks and melodies.
WHAT DO YOU THINK STEERED YOU TOWARD MUSIC THAT WAS MORE POP-ORIENTED AS OPPOSED TO METAL-ORIENTED?
Well, it's true I was different from most of my friends, who were definitely into "metal." But looking back, you can see that a lot of those vintage metal bands--Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin--wrote terrific melodies. What they did was based on real songs.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THEY STYLE OF MUSIC YOU HEAR TODAY ON THE RADIO OR ON MTV?
Sometimes I hear a band that's really popular today, and I think, "What the hell is this?" (laughs). It makes me think I must be getting old. It seems to me that a lot of new bands try to mimic what they've heard in the past, and they end up just scratching the surface.
Part of the problem, I think, is that music has become image-driven, and ghetto-ized. Musical genres have become too segregated, in that people tend to focus on one thing, and that's it. Too much of it is about having the proper tattoo or the proper pair of shorts. Music tends to be identified with certain lifestyles now, as opposed to being about the appreciation of good songwriting.
LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR SONGWRITING A BIT. WHICH TENDS TO COME EASIER TO YOU AS A WRITER--BALLADS OR ROCKERS?
I don't really know. I think they're equally difficult. It all depends on how I'm feeling. When you're trying to express something you feel deeply--something that's really close to the bone--it usually comes out of you pretty easily. It only become difficult to deal with once you've gotten it out and turned it over to the public consumption. There are things I've written that I've looked at and thought, "Whoa, no way is anyone going to hear that." Sometimes I write things that I think are too personal--or maybe too specific--to share with other people.
ARE THE THINGS THAT INSPIRE YOU TODAY, CREATIVELY, THE SAME SORTS OF THINGS THAT INSPIRED YOU BEFORE THE BAND BECAME COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL?
Oh, sure. You draw upon whatever's around you, if you're writing honestly. There is one theme I've come to see in my music. I think it often has the flavor of a guy who's looking through a window at the rest of the world. Sometimes I feel slightly separated from a lot of what I write about, like I'm just kind of observing.
THERE'S A MIX, THEN, OF THE AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL AND THE PURELY OBSERVATIONAL?
Absolutely.
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING GOOD?
Well, first of all I don't use a tape recorder when I first begin writing. I sit on the couch, I work on something, and then I put the guitar down. If the song--or whatever I was working on--comes back to me the next day, then I know I'm onto something special. But my feeling has always been that inspiration is only a spark, which you then have to follow. And it generally lasts only for a moment. You get that spark, but then it requires work to build the fire.
HOW COMPLETE DOES A SONG TEND TO BE BEFORE YOU TAKE IT TO ROBBY AND MIKE?
Pretty complete. But then I'll jam with them and new ideas will come flying out of the air. At that point, I'll take the song and maybe try to rework something. Then we'll play it again. That process of messing around with a song goes on for a while. There's a lot of tinkering that goes on, even after the song structures are complete. When you start playing a song with human beings--instead of with a drum machine or an acoustic guitar--it starts to take on a different feel. You start to capture the character--and the personality--of the song.
DO YOU MAKE CHANGES IN THE STUDIO AS WELL?
No. Everything's ready to go by that point. I'm from the old school, in that I'm of the mind that the studio is not a place to write. When you're on an independent label--as we were--and you're only getting a couple of thousand dollars to make an album, you make damn sure you flesh out the tunes in the garage, and that they're read to go. You get a clear picture of what the songs are going to be, so that when you're in the studio the meter's running, you can get it in, get the work done, and get out. I really don't understand how anyone can spend a million dollars making an album. It's so self-indulgent. That's why you set up a studio in your garage or in your basement.
ONCE YOU'RE IN THE STUDIO, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN TO STOP ADDING THINGS TO A SONG, OR WHEN IT BEGINS TO FEEL CLUTTERED?
Well, it's funny. On DIZZY UP THE GIRL, the way we worked was to put lots of tracks together, then listen to what we had, and then start subtracting things. That was interesting process, because there were things that made us go, "oh, please, just erase that" (laughs). In a way, I guess that was self-indulgent, but it certainly wasn't like trying to write a song in the studio.
GIVEN THAT YOU WRITE MOSTLY ON ACOUSTIC GUITAR, HOW DO SOME OF THE MORE UPBEAT "ROCKER" TYPE SONGS UNFOLD?
They always start melodically, but then when you take them to rehearsal, you might decide something might sound better electric. So you plug in the Marshall and you're on your way. I have written occasionally on electric guitar, but I've always had to live in apartments where you couldn't make much noise. I've sometimes written on electric guitars--I just don't plug them in.
DO YOU USE ANY WRITING TOOLS OTHER THAN GUITARS, LIKE A 4-TRACK, FOR INSTANCE?
I use a really big Sony cassette recorder (laughs). It's some sort of professional-type recorder, that allows you to plug in a full-size microphone.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE A HOME-STUDIO PROPER?
You know, I did try to put one together. I sat there and made sketches of what I wanted, until I figured out exactly how to put together a great 8-track home studio--one that would fit on one of those Ultimate support racks. But then I couldn't figure out how to sue it (laughs). That's when I went back to a simple tape recorder with mic attached. But I did recently buy a Roland 1680, which is a kind of all-in-one hard disc recorder. Now I'm trying to find someone to show me how to use that. I'm afraid I'm not good with technology.
LET'S TALK A BIT ABOUT THE GOO GOO DOLLS' SUCCESS. IT WAS A LONG TIME COMING, BUT WHEN IT ARRIVED, IT CAME WITH A VENGEANCE. SOME LONG-TIME FOLLOWERS OF THE GROUP--PARTICULARLY CRITICS--SEEMED RESENTFUL, AS IF THEY HAD JUST LOST THEIR "POCKET" BAND.
That's right. People tend to want to preserve that exclusivity. It's ironic. If I were a music writer, and I were championing a band, I would do everything I could to help them become huge. It's also strange that the media sometimes seems to put you on a pedestal just so they can get a clearer shot of you. They build you up to know you down. And it does hurt when people take shots at you. It hurts because I was always trying to be honest, in whatever I was doing.
IN RETROSPECT, DO YOU THINK THE BAND'S LONG APPRENTICESHIP SERVED YOU WELL, OR WOULD YOU HAVE PREFERRED THAT SUCCESS HD COME EARLY IN YOUR CAREER?
If success had come instantaneously, I would definitely have fucked it up. I would've blown all the money on stupid things, and would probably be the subject of one of those "Where Are They Now?" type shows. That's another thing that's weird to me now. When "Name" became a hit, alternative music was the "music du jour," so to speak. But today, alternative music is really second fiddle to rap, metal, or something. It's required a bit of adjustment, realizing that we're not the new thing anymore.
WHEN YOU WROTE "NAME," DID YO HAVE ANY SENSE THAT YOU HAD SOMETHING SPECIAL ON YOUR HANDS?
No, not at all. I just write the songs, and I leave the determination of those types of things to other people. I love all the songs I write. A lot of writers say this, but it's true: to ask a songwriter to name his favorite song is like asking another which of her children she likes best. It's like, I ain't telling (laughs).
IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE GOO GOO DOLLS' SUCCESS, YOU EXPERIENCED A TERRIBLE STRUGGLE WITH WRITER'S BLOCK. DID THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CONTRACT BATTLE YOU WERE HAVING WITH METAL BLADE?
It had to do with a lot of battles. I felt like I was under a public microscope, and I felt like I was under a critical microscope. Everything felt really, really weird. I didn't anticipate how having some success can bring on a sort of cognitive dissonance to your brain.
All of a sudden a lot of people want to talk to you or want to know you. They want to be around you and work with you. I looked at that, and my first reaction was, "Well, why didn't you want to do this before, when we weren't as successful? Why didn't you want to hang out before we had a hit?" You get surrounded by a lot of people who are full of shit, and that really messed me up. So I closed my circle, I closed myself off from everyone except the guys in the band, and my wife, and my manager--and pretty much told the rest of the world to piss off. None of it seemed real.
AND THAT'S WHAT PRECIPITATED THE WRITER'S BLOCK?
Yes. I was really disillusioned with the business, and with just how unsettling the whole "success" thing can be.
DO YOU THINK THAT ON SOME LEVEL--EITHER CONSCIOUS OR UNCONSCIOUS -- YOU JUST DIDN'T WANT TO CREATE MUSIC ANYMORE?
I think, on an unconscious level, I was scared shitless of not being able to do it anymore, although it wasn't so much that I was afraid of not being able to duplicated "Name." I was just afraid I would never be able to create something better than what I had done before, whatever that next 'something" might be.
And I was very conscious of the fact that I as sick of my own record company, and all the things that were going on there. My thinking was, "I'm not an animal. I'm not a whore, and I'm not a plow-mule." My wife, who's a really wise woman, said, "You have to understand that you can always play music, until they cut your hands off, and even then you'll find a way to make music with your stumps. And that's the most important thing."
In the end, I got a lot of help from a lot of really intelligent people--including people at Warner Brothers. Before, I think the regime that was in there when the whole lawsuit thing came down were a bunch of pseudo-intellectual art-mongers who like to keep musician around as some kind of exotic species. Musicians were definitely looked upon as lower life forms. But I'm not an exotic species. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, and sometimes being truthful isn't the most clever thing you're going to hear. I wasn't held in very high regard by those people. "A poor man's Replacements" is a phrase I seem to recall being used.
WHAT WAS IT ABOUT GETTING ASSIGNED A SPECIFIC SONG TO WRITE THAT BROUGHT YOU OUT OF IT?
Well, I talked a lot with two friends in particular who helped me to get over this fear. One thing they said was, "You have to have a deadline, and you have to complete a thought. If what you do sucks and you fall the first time, then just get up and do it again." I finally accepted that I was going to fall sometimes, but I also learned that the only way you fail is if you give up.
And then this project--to write a song for the CITY OF ANGELS soundtrack--was shoved into my lap by my manager. There was a deadline, and I was determined to complete a thought. But I also had a lot of philosophical question in my mind about this with my life. It was a case of, "Please, God, help me find my path."
When "Iris" came, that was a very loud answer from somewhere. That song came to me so fast, and then, when it was out of my hands, it just exploded in my face. It really gave me the confidence to keep writing songs.
HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO MAINTAIN YOUR CREATIVITY, WHICH REQUIRE NURTURING, IN THE MIDST OF ALL THE EXTRANEOUS STUFF THAT GOES ALONG WITH SUCCESS? IS THAT MORE DIFFICULT NOW THAT SO MUCH ATTENTION IS FOCUSED ON THE BAND?
Well, I don't' write when I'm on the road. That would be too schizophrenic. To try and go from tapping into he most introverted part of myself, to being a completely extroverted, entertainer-type guy on-stage would be too difficult. It's hard enough to sing certain songs in front of a certain type of audience. If we happened to be playing some place that's really rowdy, I might pull out the acoustic guitar and think, "this doesn't feel right tonight."
DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH CONTACT WITH YOUR AUDIENCE TO TELL WHETHER OR NOT THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ALL ABOUT?
I think there's a certain number of people who get what we're doing. And I think there's another set of people who really love "Name" and "Iris," what then come to the shows and get a bit of an education about the rest of what we're about. I don't know that they LIKE the rest of what we're about, but I am happy they like something I've done.
ARE THERE ANY UP-AND-COMING ARTISTS YOU'RE ESPECIALLY EXCITED ABOUT, THESE DAYS?
I think Ben Lee's latest release, BREATHING TORNADOES, is a great album. When you listen to his first album, and then listen to BREATHING TORNADOES, you can hear someone really coming of age as an artist. It's exciting to hear that happening. And there's' a band called Head Candy, on Link Records, who writes sort of melodic psychedelia, slightly ambient music. There's also a band that played with us on tour, called Doosu, that I like. They're on a record label out of Dallas called One Ton.
DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC ADVICE FOR ASPIRING MUSICIANS?
Actually, I would suggest several things. First, play music that you believe in. Play music that moves your soul and makes you feel good when you play it, because in the even you do become successful, you're going to have to play that music every night. And if you don't like it, and if you don't mean it, a night is gonna come along where you're going to go, "Fuck this."
Secondly, don't' ever become outcome-oriented. Suppose you don't become famous--so what? If your music moves you, it's valid. Fame is a passing, fleeting thing, so just try to be as good as you can at what you do. Third, never sign anything until you find a qualified entertainment lawyer. And the place to look for them is either New York or Los Angeles.
Lastly, there are couple of books that every musician should read. If a record company--or a publishing company--become seriously interested in you, you should read ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE MUSIC BUSINESS, by Donald Passman. If you read that book and comprehend it and continue to refer back to it, you won't get into trouble.
JOHN'S REQUIRED LISTENING:
Rolling Stones--Hot Rocks
The Clash--London Calling
Billy Bragg--Talking With The Taxman About Poetry
The Replacements--Let It Be, Tim, and Pleased To Meet Me
Buffalo Tom--Let Me Come Over
Al Green--Greatest Hits
JOHN'S GEAR BOX:
Guitars and Amps--Fender Stratocasters, Guild Acoustic Guitars, Fishman Guitar Pickup, Marshall Amps
Writing Tools--Sony Professional Cassette Recorder, Alesis SR-16 Drum Machine, Tascam 488 MK II 8-Track, Roland 1680 Hard Disk Recorder
