KING: The subject is "Queer As Folk." And naturally lesbians play a part as well. Let's meet our next panel, here in Los Angeles... Scott Lowell plays Ted Schmidt. Ted is a gay, low-key, down-to-earth accountant. And by the way, he's also a straight man.

SCOTT: Not a lesbian.

KING: Not a lesbian. In New York is Robert Gant, he plays Ben Bruckner. Ben was not part of the first season. He is a professor of gay studies, also is HIV positive, also is straight.

Two straight ladies here in Los Angeles; Thea Gill, who plays Lindsay Peterson, a university professor in a committed lesbian relationship and Michelle Clunie who plays Melanie Marcus. Melanie is a tough lawyer in that committed lesbian relationship.

Why did you take this part, Scott?

SCOTT: Mostly because the character reminded me so much of myself in a certain stage of my life. Especially moving out to Los Angeles from Chicago. The gay club scene that's portrayed in "Queer As Folk" is exactly what Los Angeles is like. A world where youth and beauty and wealth is prized, and if you don't have those things, then you don't quite fit in, much as my character does. You end up on the rejected end of the post.

KING: Robert, you know there are some people who are complaining that heterosexuals shouldn't have been cast at all. It should have been an all-gay cast. How do you react to that?

ROBERT: Well, at the end of the day, it is about who best portrays a part. The reality is we know that Rock Hudson had been playing straight roles for how many years. This has been happening back and forth since the beginning of time. It's just -- I guess now that the tables are turned, people are -- I don't know.

KING: A good point. Thea, why did you take it?

THEA: I thought it was a lovely role. I felt very fortunate to be offered such a role. I love the emotional aspects of Lindsey and her relationship with her family. And the traditional qualities.

KING: Was it hard to play that scene we just saw, making love to a woman when I presume that you prefer men?

THEA: It was a breeze. Every time I'm working with Michelle it's a joy.

KING: Are you in love with Michelle, now?

MICHELLE [looking at Thea and taking her hand]: We are going to elope after this.

KING: No, was it hard to play that?

THEA: No, not at all. Not at all. It was very simple and it was very rooted for me. And every time I work on any scene that I am in with Michelle and anyone else in the show...

KING: No conflicts for you.

THEA: None.

KING: Michelle, what about you?

MICHELLE: Conflicts?

KING: You are heterosexual?

MICHELLE: Yes, yes, yes.

KING: Any difficulty?

MICHELLE: No. It's just a part of the job. And to me, I see love as love. I don't think that -- I relate very much to the love that Melanie and Lindsey share. And it's very beautiful. And I think at the end of the day, you just -- it is wonderful to get to play a character that has such a strong point of view and is feisty and you don't get to see on TV very often.

KING: How do you react to all the attention it's getting?

MICHELLE: I think it's wonderful.

KING: Even the bad, even those who are critical?

MICHELLE: Well, you know I don't really listen to those voices very much. When people are critical, I think that if you listen to that -- how do you get out of bed and create in the morning? I hear so much positive reinforcement that the critical voices... I don't know what you're talking about.

KING: Is it hard, Scott, to play a love scene with a man?

SCOTT: No. I mean, although I do apologize to any woman I've kissed and given razor burn to over the years. That's the hardest part of it, I suppose. Is needing a good moisturizer afterwards.

KING: What's the hardest part, Robert, for you, about playing a gay person?

ROBERT: You know, I think at the end of the day, acting is acting. And you know, our lives -- the whole point is that there's no real difference, that we tend to focus on how we're not the same.

And what people are noticing about the show is they're starting to see our similarities. They're starting to see how we're the same. About how people at the end of the day, love the same. They argue the same. They have sex very similarly. And so really as an actor my job is to take my life experiences and to put them into, you know, into the scene that I'm playing.

You know, there was -- when I was having a love scene with -- a romantic scene with Lea Thompson or Lisa Kudrow, kissing them, it's no different than kissing Hal in that I'm not in love with any of these people. I am looking inside of myself and finding those places where I remember being in love and bring that into the scene.

KING: Thea, the first time you had to kiss a woman, was that hard? Assuming it is something you've never done.

THEA: No, same thing that Bobby was talking about. It's another human being. It's another...

KING: Feel different?

THEA [smiling sweetly]: Softer and more gentle.

KING: Oklahoma City. Hello.

CALLER: Yes. My mom and I are fans of the show. We were wondering for the straight actors, do they have appreciation for gay people now that they've portrayed them.

KING: Good question. Has it changed your thinking at all, Scott?

SCOTT: No, I've always appreciated gay people. I've known many. I have some in my family. They're people just like any of us. As has been mentioned earlier, the only thing that "Queer as Folk" has taught me is how much we're all alike and that all the fuss and the nonsense people make over the differences is absurd. We're all human beings.

KING: Bob, has it changed you at all, feelings towards gay people?

ROBERT: I'm just really proud to be a part of this. It's revolutionary. There was a time when there was a show that for the first time was about people of color. And it was controversial and caused people to talk and argue. And this show is doing exactly that. It's historic. And I'm just so glad to be a part of it and to watch the world changing. People don't realize this is opening minds and hearts and souls and you know, in the wake of September 11, I think we're all taking a look at love and life.

KING: Affected you in any way, Thea?

MICHELLE: Michelle?

KING: Michelle, I'm sorry.

MICHELLE: To be part of it? Yes, absolutely. I think the emotions that Melanie goes through as a character and being shut out of the hospital room and not being able to be with my baby and the woman that I love and having to go through that as an actress, it's made me even more compassionate where there already was compassion, it is so much deeper.

KING: Given us all a better understanding of the parts you play and I thank you very much. We'll meet the executive producers and a critic of this extraordinary program. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

[Video clip from QAF is played]

BRIAN: Oh, my god.
LINDSAY: Say hello to your son.
MICHAEL: Well, go on.
BRIAN: When did it start?
MELANIE: Around 7:00.
LINDSAY: Six hours later there he was.
BRIAN: I wish I could have been here. How often do I get to see snatch?
LINDSAY: Looks just like you.

[Commercial Break]

KING: Joining us now here in Los Angeles are Ron Cowan and Daniel Lipman. They are the executive producers of "Queer as Folk". they were creators, executive producers and writers of the emmy winning network series. They earned an Emmy for writing the TV movie, "An Early Frost."

They've won a Peabody Award as well. Both gentlemen are gay and have been personal as well as professional partners for more than 30 years. In New York, is Robert Peters. Robert is president of Morality in Media, a nonprofit national interfaith organization working through, it says, constitutional means to curb traffic and obscenity and to uphold standards of decency in the mainstream media. Before we get Robert's thoughts, how was this show conceived, Ron?

RON: It is based on an English series of the same name "Queer as Folk" which we saw. Showtime called, asked if we'd be interested in doing it. We said oh, absolutely. It would be a tremendous challenge, something exciting.

KING: Daniel, in England do they do it the same way, a cast of people, some straight, some gay?

DAN: You mean in terms of the actors?

KING: Yes.

DAN: I think that all the factors on that show, the leading roles were straight.

KING: Straight. Are scripts kind of similar stories involvement, lesbians, etc.?

DAN: Actually, our show is more of an ensemble show. It has turned into that. That's what the network wanted it to be. We actually used the British template the first episode or so because it was very very seminal in terms of this Brian and Justin relationship. After that we veered in our own direction.

KING: Where did the title come from?

RON: I understand it is from a Welsh expression.

DAN: Yorkshire...

RON: Yorkshire expression. It actually means there's nothing as strange as people. There's nothing as "Queer as Folk".

DAN: There's not as "Queer as Folk". There's nothing stranger than people.

KING: You knew you of course you were breaking new ground here?

RON: Yes.

KING: Any trepidation?

DAN: No, I don't think so. We wrote, as you mentioned, "Early Frost" which in its time was fairly groundbreaking. For us, I think there has been this, not by design, but this arc in our career of writing about gay characters. And where the world has gone, to go from something like "Early Frost" where we could barely have the characters touch each other to something like "Queer As Folk" is simply amazing.

KING: All right. Robert Peterson (sic) in New York, what's the rub? They're presenting a side of life. They're presenting it realistically. That's what life is about.

ROBERT PETERS: Well, I really don't claim to be the whole expert on this program. I was asked to watch the first three episodes of "Queer as Folk" actually before they aired in order to comment on them for a television interview. And I watched them. And I could summarize my concerns with -- to make things simple, three Ps.

And the first P is an old-fashioned word. It is pedorasty. And I think some of your viewers would know that's a high-falutin' word for man/boy love. It's often used, I think, in reference to a practice that was widely existed in Rome and ancient Greece, which is initiating young attractive boys into manhood through having sex with older men. And kind of what really shocked me about watching those first three episodes was not just that this man/boy love relationship was depicted in a very explicit fashion, but it really was the centerpiece.

I mean, my second P is promiscuity. And I don't know how many people understand it, but there is still an AIDS epidemic in the United States of America that is affecting a lot of gay men. And so are -- there's an epidemic of other sexually transmitted diseases that is affecting gay men. Now, I won't go so far as to say that the program is promoting promiscuity, which I think arguably it is, but clearly it's non-judgmental. It is depicting this as the way things are. It's depicting it very erotically, very excitedly. I mean, whether it's promotion or just wallowing in something, it's there. And there was a study...

KING: All right. Robert, hold it one second. Before you get to the third P, I want to take a break and come back, and then you establish what the third reason was, and then Ron and Daniel will respond.

You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. We'll be right back.

[Commercial Break]

[Video clip from QAF is played]

BRIAN: Don't get the idea that we're still a married couple, because we're not. We're not like fucking straight people. We're not like your parents. And we're not a pair of dikes marching down the aisle in matching Vera Wangs. We're queers and if we're together, it's because we want to be, not because there's locks on our doors.

KING: "Queer as Folk" airs, by the way, at 10:00 p.m. Sunday nights on Showtime. And they repeat it Tuesday nights at 11:00 p.m. All right, Robert Peters, president of Morality in Media, what's the third P?

PETERS: Well, the third P is pornography. And pornography fits into the program in two ways. In one case, a lead character, a primary character, that's what he's into as a lifestyle. Now again, I'm not saying that the program, per se, promotes pornography. But like everything else, it is portrayed in a non-judgmental way. And certainly the sex scenes are, I think, by some definitions of pornography, pornographic.

And I have two articles that were written by openly gay men, one published in the "New York Times," the other in "The Village Voice" where those authors use the term porn in describing how the sex is depicted. I can recall some mainstream television critics saying that in a mainstream TV program, this is the most explicit and prolonged sex that's ever been depicted on television, straight or gay.

And I'm an opponent of pornography, I hasten to add, whether it is gay or straight. I really don't see any difference on that.

KING: OK, Robert. His points, Ron, on the three Ps are that you're appealing to base elements here, and that I gather -- I don't gather, he does think that you're taking this across the line. Your response?

RON: Well, first of all, we're on Showtime. And Showtime has lived up to its promise of "No Limits." I think they've been...

KING: That doesn't mean he can't criticize.

RON: Oh, no, not at all. I think -- look, everybody's entitled to their opinion. It makes for conversation. The show is absolutely controversial. But I do think that we are portraying gay people as sexual people for the first time on television. Very few people have ever seen this in their lives. And I think it's very important to show gay people as having sex lives. Up until now, they've been pretty much portrayed as clowns and eunuchs.

KING: How about the non-judgmental that he brings up?

DAN: Well, I do want to say that I was hoping that a couple of these would be 'provocative' and 'pioneering.' But as far as non- judgmental, he's correct. We do not judge our characters. You know, this is a creative venture. And being creative, it does not take a politically correct view. That does not mean that there's an intent to harm or offend. It's just our job is to tell the truth about the world of this...

KING: What, Robert, do you want? Do you want the show not to be on or do you want someone to come in and say on the show at various times what you're doing is wrong? I mean, what is your goal?

PETERS: Well, I've been asked to criticize the program or comment on it, I suppose, several times over the past couple of years, and I've done so. I haven't wasted any sleep over the program. I'm thankful at one level that it's on Showtime because for the most part that means it's a consenting adult audience.

Certainly on broadcast television, there are people talking today that whatever goes on on Showtime and HBO should be on broadcast television after 10:00 p.m. And I'd also hasten to add that from my own personal moral perspective, apart from the man/boy love thing, which is a highlight of "Queer as Folk," I don't see much difference morally from "Queer as Folk" which is on Showtime, and "Sex and the City" which is on HBO. If they're going to be on television, that's the place for them.

Would America be a better place without both? In my opinion, yes. I'm not about to start a movement trying to get them off the air. And I haven't done that.

KING: I see. You're just offering your critique.

PETERS: Thank you.

KING: Ron, what about the man/boy critique?

RON: Well, in all honesty, I don't see just reason...

KING: They are young boys in the scenes we've seen.

RON: When we started the show, Justin was about 17 and a half going on 18. He's a high school senior. I think we all know that a lot of high school seniors are sexually active. Realistically, a lot of gay men have sex for the first time with older men. It happens. Our job to portray -- is to portray this world realistically. We're not making judgments here, but it does happen.

It also happened by mutual consent. Now, when a young man is 18 years old, he is allowed to marry. He can vote. He can go in the Army. He can die for his country. I certainly think he should also be able to have sex with whomever he wants, provided that person wants to have sex with him, that it is by mutual consent and that it's done safely and that's exactly what we've shown on "Queer as Folk."

KING: Robert?

PETERS: When I watched these first three episodes, I was writing down what I observed. This is very quick, but this is one of the sex scenes involving the man and boy. A man gets in the shower with boy, man sodomizes boy in shower. Man says to another male friend, we have to take the child to school. They take boy to high school. Boy wants to see the man again. He says, I just saw the face of God.

Boy at school looking at football players in the shower. Boy tells female friend that he's proud and happy that he had sex with a man and that he loves the man. Now, later in this program, that man/boy lover was in the bathroom and another man came in who happened to have -- be married with two children, and part of the reality that was depicted in that episode, the two men, the man/boy lover and the married person with two children, they had sex in the stall.

Now, undoubtedly this takes place, but is this really the kind of entertainment that uplifts the American people and the teenagers that, according to one of your former guests, watch this program?

KING: We only have 20 seconds. Does he have a point? Does it affect people?

DAN: Yes. This is not an Army training film. This is not devised to send out politically correct messages.

KING: We'll do more on this. I promised we've just touched the surface. Ron Cowen and Daniel Lipman, the co-executive producers; and Robert Peters, the president of Morality in Media.