Michael Talks to Oprah
February 10, 1993
This 90 minute long interview was broadcast LIVE around the world from
Michael's Neverland Valley
Ranch in California. The live telecast attracted about 85 million viewers
in US alone, and was the 4th
most watched TV event in history. It was the most successful ABC entertainment
special ever.
Introductory remarks:
Oprah : You're invited to Michael Jackson's house-four minutes from now.
Cut to clips of Michael as people make remarks:
Boy : He's like famous. He dances good. And
when he was a little boy he was singing so cool.
Young woman : I grew up with his music and
I think he is extremely talented.
Man : This kid does a little bit of everything.
He's just so different, so unique in his style.
Boy : His thing is his music. O.K. He's just
himself, you know?
Young man : People would die for him. You
see all those pictures of people crying and trampling
over each other just to get a glimpse of him.
Young man : I think he is the ultimate live
performer.
Lady : I don't know how he can dance like
that.
Child : He's a great singer. I just love him.
Man : He's a genius.
Boy : He's the King of Pop.
Man : The man is just tremendous. And I am
in my seventies and I love him, so you can imagine what
my teenagers do.
Man : He's always been the greatest in my
book.
Woman : I think he's a gift, you know, to
people who love music.
Young man : I just wish that he would just
kinda take down his walls and show the world who he
really is.
Oprah : Good evening. I am Oprah Winfrey, live to you in North America
and countries around the globe
- bringing you a world exclusive interview with the most elusive superstar
in the history of music,
Michael Jackson. I'm here in front of his California home, it's a ranch
on the outskirts of Santa
Barbara, where just inside is the man who has broken every possible
musical record, denied inter- views,
and defied definition for years. For nearly a quarter of a century,
he has been an innovator of music, of
dance, of videos, even fashion, and nothing he does is anything short
of spectacular. Tonight, Michael
Jackson will continue to surprise us with a rare personal tour of his
astounding home, which includes a
private movie theater and a full scale amusement park. You're also
going to see a special performance by
him and the world premiere of his latest music video. In the next live,
and I do mean unedited ninety
minutes, Michael Jackson will reveal himself, I hope, as he has never
done before. Tonight, his silence is
broken. Tonight---------- Michael Jackson.
Cut to clips for intermission.
Announcer : Live from Santa Inez, California-Michael Jackson talks to Oprah.
Oprah : [from Michael's living room]
Michael Jackson's home is nothing like anyone would expect. I thought
there were going to be a few
llamas wandering around the living room and maybe some-uh-chimps jumping
around. Don't get me wrong,
I wasn't dead wrong. There are plenty of mind-boggling areas on this
2700 acre ranch which you'll see
in this next ninety minutes. But, where Michael Jackson eats, and where
he sleeps, and where he lives is
quite simply a beautiful home. There is a library here filled with
leather bound classics and art work on
the walls, not at all what we thought we'd find. Before we meet the
man who does live here, it is
important to know where he came from, for his history is nothing short
of incredible.
[Cut to clips of photos of Michael and family as he grew up.]
Oprah : Michael Jackson is the seventh of nine brothers and sisters
born in Gary, Indiana to steel mill
worker Joseph and mother Katherine. Some say the Jackson's turned to
music the day their television
set broke down, but from the day they started performing, they were
destined for stardom. Beginning at
a place called Motown------
[Cut to clips of Michael and his brothers performing.]
Oprah : This video tape of the Jackson's Motown audition shows James
Brown's influence on young
Michael and the boys' performance brought almost the entire company
in to watch. Motown head, Berry
Gordy knew right away. It was the start of a career that broke almost
every record in the book,
beginning with a string of four number one consecutive hits.
[Cut to clips of the Jackson 5 appearances on Ed Sullivan and other shows.]
Oprah : For the Jackson family, their lives changed almost overnight.
They went from obscurity to
super stardom, filled with concert tours, limousines, and television
appearances. But, it was little Michael
that was getting the most attention. As the number one hits continue
to accumulate, Michael became a
star in his own right, releasing song after song, each one turning
to gold. As the years roll by, the
Jackson's success continues while their music changed with the changing
times. But, as the boys grew
older, who could have guessed what lay in store for Michael Jackson.
[Cut to clip of Michael being interviewed as a child--]
Interviewer : So what's going to happen when
your voice changes?
little Michael : It just changes!
Interviewer : Are you going to be able to stay singing?
little Michael : Yeah. (smiles broadly)
The Interview:
Oprah : Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson enters the living room of his home. They shake hands
and Michael kisses Oprah on the
cheek.
Oprah : How nervous are you?
Michael : How what?
Oprah : How nervous are you right now?
Michael : I'm not nervous at all, actually.
Oprah : You really aren't?
Michael : No, I never get nervous.
Oprah : Not even for your first interview and it's live around the world?
I thought you'd be a little
nervous but you're not and that's great because if you're not nervous
I won't be nervous. I just wanted
to let the world know that when we agreed to do this interview you
said you would be willing to talk to
me about everything.
Michael : That's true.
Oprah : Very true. I was watching you in the background there watching
you in the video of the early
years. Did that bring back memories for you?
Michael : It made me giggle because I haven't seen that footage in a
long time. Did it bring back
memories? Yes, me and my brothers who I love dearly and it's just a
wonderful moment for me.
Oprah : I saw you laugh when you saw yourself singing Baby, Baby, Baby.
Michael : Yeah, I think James Brown is a genius you know when he's with
the Famous Flames,
unbelievable. I used to watch him on television and I used to get angry
at the camera-man because
whenever he would really start to dance they would be on a close-up
so I couldn't see his feet. I'd shout
"show him show him.", so I could watch and learn.
Oprah : So he was a big mentor for you?
Michael : Phenomenal, phenomenal.
Oprah : Who else was?
Michael : Jackie Wilson who I adore as an entertainer, and of course
music, Motown. The Bee Gees who
are brilliant, I just love great music.
Oprah : When I look at those tapes of you, and heaven knows, putting
this together I think I've seen
every piece of video ever done of you, and watching those tapes when,
especially in the younger years,
you seem to really come alive on stage. Were you as happy off stage
as you appear to be on stage?
Michael : Well, on stage for me was home. I was most comfortable on
stage but once I got off stage, I
was like, very sad.
Oprah : Really?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : And sad from the beginning, sad since it first started, sad?
Michael : Lonely, sad, having to face popularity and all that. There
were times when I had great times
with my brother, pillow fights and things, but I was, used to always
cry from loneliness.
Oprah : Beginning at what age?
Michael : Oh, very little, eight, nine.
Oprah : When you all first became famous?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : So it wasn't what it appeared to be to the rest of the world,
all of us .. I remember I was a
little black child, wanted to marry Jackie Jackson, your brother, so
I mean to all of us we thought this
was the most wonderful thing in the world, who wouldn't have wanted
that life?
Michael : It was wonderful, there is a lot of wonderment in being famous.
I mean you travel the world,
you meet people, you go places, it's great. But then there's the other
side, which I'm not complaining
about. There is lots of rehearsal and you have to put in a lot of your
time, give of yourself a lot.
Oprah : Do you feel... I talked with Susan de Passe the other day, and
Susan de Passe worked with you
at Motown and really groomed you all and found the outfits for the
Ed Sullivan Show. We talked about
whether or not it was really lost, was it?
Michael : Well, especially now I come to realize - and then - I would
do my schooling which was three
hours with a tutor and right after that I would go to the recording
studio and record, and I'd record for
hours and hours until it's time to go to sleep. And I remember going
to the record studio there was a
park across the street and I'd see all the children playing and I would
cry because it would make me sad
that I would have to work instead.
Oprah : I want to go to this and show some pictures of you as a little boy.
Michael : OK.
Oprah : Susan said it was a heavy price. I want to know how big of a
price it was, losing your childhood
or having this kind of life?
Michael : Well, you don't get to do things that other children get to
do, you know, having friends and
slumber parties and buddies. There was none of that for me. I didn't
have any friends when I was little.
My brothers were my friends.
Oprah : Was there ever a place where - because you know children - because
I remember talking to
myself and playing with my dolls - was there.. and I think every child
needs a place to escape into, a
child's world, a child's imagination, was there ever a time you could
do that?
Michael : No. And that is why I think now because I didn't have it then,
I compensate for that. People
wonder why I always have children around, because I find the thing
that I never had through them, you
know Disneyland, amusement parks, arcade games. I adore all that stuff
because when I was little it was
always work, work, work from one concert to the next, if it wasn't
a concert it was the recording studio,
if it wasn't that it was TV shows or interviews or picture sessions.
There was always something to do.
Oprah : Did you feel, Smokey Robinson said this about you, and so have
many other people, that you
were like an old soul in a little body.
Michael : I remember hearing that all the time when I was little. They
used to call me a 45-years-old
midget wherever I went, I just used to hear that and wherever I went
.. just like when some people when
you were little and you started to sing did you know you were that
good? And I say I never thought
about it, I just did it and it came out. I never thought about it really.
Oprah : So here you were, Michael Jackson, you all had hits, you all
had so many hits, four hits in a row,
and you were crying because you couldn't be like other kids.
Michael : Well, I loved show business and I still love show business,
but then there are times you want to
play and have some fun and that part did make me sad. I remember one
time we were getting ready to go
to South America and everything was packed up and in the car ready
to go and I hid and I was crying
because I really did not want to go. I wanted to play. I did not want
to go.
Oprah : Were your brothers jealous of you when you started getting all the attention?
Michael : Not that I know of, no.
Oprah : You never felt a sense of jealousy?
Michael : Oh, let me think - no. No, I think they were always happy
for me that I could do certain
things, but I've never felt jealousy among them.
Oprah : Do you think they are jealous of you now?
Michael : I wouldn't think so. I don't think so, no.
Oprah : No. What's your relationship like with your family? Are you all close still?
Michael : I love my family very much. I wish I could see them a little
more often than I do. But we
understand because we're a show business family and we all work. We
do have family day when we all get
together, we pick a person's house, it might be Jermaine's house or
Marlon's house or Tito's house and
everyone will come together in fellowship and love each other and talk
and catch up on who's doing what
and....
Oprah : You weren't all upset about LaToya and LaToya's book and the
things that LaToya has said
about the family?
Michael : Well, I haven't read LaToya's book. I just know how to love
my sister dearly, I love LaToya
and I always will and I always see her as the happy, loving LaToya
that I remember growing up with. So
I couldn't completely answer on that.
Oprah : Do you feel that some of the things that she's been saying are true?
Michael : I couldn't answer Oprah, honestly I haven't read the book. That's the honest truth.
Oprah : Well, let's go back to when you were growing up and feeling
all of this, well, I guess it's a sense
of anguish, I guess, so there was no one for you to play with other
than your brother's, you never had
slumber parties?
Michael : Never.
Oprah : So I'm wondering for you, being this cute little boy who everybody
adored and everybody who
comes up to you they're pulling your cheeks and how cute, how adolescence
going through that duck stage
where everything's awkward, and I'm wondering when you started to go
through adolescence having been
this child superstar, was that a particularly difficult time for you?
Michael : Very. Very, very difficult, yes. Because I think every child
star suffers through this period
because you're not the cute and charming child that you were. You start
to grow, and they want to keep
you little forever.
Oprah : Who's they?
Michael : The public. And um, nature takes its course.
Oprah : It does?
Michael : Yes, and I had pimples so badly it used to make me so shy,
I used not to look at myself, I'd
hide my face in the dark, I wouldn't want to look in the mirror and
my father teased me and I just hated
it and I cried every day.
Oprah : Your father teased you about your pimples?
Michael : Yes and tell me I'm ugly.
Oprah : Your father would say that?
Michael : Yes he would. Sorry Joseph.
Oprah : What's your relationship like with him?
Michael : I love my father but I don't know him.
Oprah : Are you angry with him for doing that? I think that's pretty cruel actually.
Michael : Am I angry with him?
Oprah : Because adolescence is hard enough without a parent telling you that you're ugly.
Michael : Am I angry with him? Sometimes I do get angry. I don't know
him the way I'd like to know
him. My mother's wonderful. To me she's perfection. I just wish I could
understand my father.
Oprah : And so let's talk about those teen years. Is that when you started
to go inside yourself?
Because obviously you haven't spoken to the world for 14 years. So
you went inside, you became a
recluse. Was it to protect yourself?
Michael : I felt there wasn't anything important for me to say and those
were very sad, sad years for
me.
Oprah : Why so sad? Because on stage you were performing, you were getting
your Grammies. Why so
sad?
Michael : Oh, there's a lot of sadness about my past and adolescence,
about my father and all of those
things.
Oprah : So he would tease you, make fun of you.
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : Would he ... did he ever beat you?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : And why would he beat you?
Michael : He saw me, he wanted me ... I guess I don't know if I was
his golden child or whatever it was,
some may call it a strict disciplinarian or whatever, but he was very
strict, very hard, very stern. Just a
look would scare you, you know.
Oprah : And were you scared of him?
Michael : Very. Like there's been times when he'd come to see me, I'd get sick, I'd start to regurgitate.
Oprah : As a child or as an adult?
Michael : Both. He's never heard me say this. I'm sorry, please don't be mad at me.
Oprah : Well, I mean, I suppose everybody has to take responsibility
for what they've done in life. And
your father is one of those people who also have to take responsibility.
Michael : But I do love him.
Oprah : Yes, I understand this.
Michael : And I am forgiving.
Oprah : But can you really forgive?
Michael : I do forgive. There's so much garbage and so much trash that's
written about me it is so
untrue, they're complete lies, and those are some of the things I wanted
to talk about. The press has
made up so much ... God ... awful, horrifying stories it has made me
realize the more often you hear a lie,
I mean, you begin to believe it.
Oprah : Um, we talked about all of the rumors just before we went to
the break and there are so many.
First of all, I have been in this house getting prepared for this and
I've been all over the house upstairs
when you weren't looking, looking for that oxygen chamber and I cannot
find an oxygen chamber
anywhere in the house.
Michael : That, that story is so crazy, I mean it's one of those tabloid things, it's completely made up.
Oprah : Okay, but you are in something there, there's a picture of you,
where did that come from? How
did it get started?
Michael : That's ... I did a commercial for Pepsi and I was burned very
badly and we settled for one
million dollars and I gave all the money ... like we built this place
called the Michael Jackson Burn
Center and that's a piece of technology used for burn victims, right,
so I'm looking at the piece of
technology and decide to just go inside it and just to hammer around,
somebody takes the picture, when
they process the picture the person who processes the picture says,
"Oh, Michael Jackson," he made a
copy and these pictures went all over the world with this lie attached
to it. It's a complete lie, why do
people buy these papers. It's not the truth and I'm here to say. You
know, do not judge a person, do not
pass judgment, unless you have talked to them one on one, I don't care
what the story is, do not judge
them because it's a lie.
Oprah : You're right, that story, it was just like it had legs.
Michael : It's crazy! Why would I want to sleep in a chamber? (Laughing)
Oprah : Well, the rumor was that you were sleeping in the chamber because you didn't want to grow old.
Michael : That's stupid. That's stupid. It's completely made up and
I'm embarrassed. I'm willing to
forgive the press, or forgive anybody, I was taught to love and forgive,
which I do have in my heart, but
please don't believe these crazy, horrifying things.
Oprah : Did you buy the Elephant man's bones, were you trying to get them for ...
Michael : No that's another stupid story. I love the story of the Elephant
Man, he reminds me of me a
lot and I could relate to it, it made me cry because I saw myself in
in the story, but no I never asked
for the ... where am I going to put some bones?
Oprah : I don't know.
Michael : And why would I want some bones?
Oprah : I don't know. So where did that come from?
Michael : Someone makes it up and everybody believes it. If you hear a lie often enough, you believe it.
Oprah : Yes and people make money selling tabloids.
Michael : Yes
Oprah : All right. Just recently, there was a story and I know one of
your attorneys held a news
conference, there was a story about you wanting a little white child
to play you in a Pepsi commercial.
Michael : That is so stupid. That is the most ridiculous, horrifying
story I've ever heard. It's crazy.
Why, number one, it's my face as a child in the commercial, me when
I was little, why would I want a
white child to play me? I'm a black American, I am proud to be a black
American, I am proud of my
race. I am proud of who I am. I have a lot of pride and dignity. That's
like you wanting an oriental
person to play you as a child. Does that make sense?
Oprah : No.
Michael : So, please people, stop believing these horrifying stories.
Oprah : Okay, then let's go to the thing that is most discussed about
you, that is the color of your skin
is most obviously different than when you were younger, and so I think
it has caused a great deal of
speculation and controversy as to what you have done or are doing,
are you bleaching your skin and is
your skin lighter because you don't like being black?
Michael : Number one, as I know of, there is no such thing as skin bleaching,
I have never seen it, I don't
know what it is.
Oprah : Well they used to have those products, I remember growing up
always hearing always use bleach
and glow, but you have to have about 300,000 gallons.
Michael : Okay, but number one, this is the situation. I have a skin
disorder that destroys the
pigmentation of the skin, it's something that I cannot help. Okay.
But when people make up stories that I
don't want to be who I am it hurts me.
Oprah : So it is...
Michael : It's a problem for me that I can't control, but what about
all the millions of people who sits
out in the sun, to become darker, to become other than what they are,
no one says nothing about that.
Oprah : So when did this start, when did your ... when did the color of your skin start to change?
Michael : Oh boy, I don't ... sometime after Thriller, around Off the
Wall, Thriller, around sometime
then.
Oprah : But what did you think?
Michael : It's in my family, my father said it's on his side. I can't
control it, I don't understand, I mean,
it makes me very sad. I don't want to go into my medical history because
that is private, but that's the
situation here.
Oprah : So okay, I just want to get this straight, you are not taking
anything to change the color of your
skin ...
Michael : Oh, God no, we tried to control it and using make-up evens
it out because it makes blotches on
my skin, I have to even out my skin. But you know what's funny, why
is that so important? That's not
important to me. I'm a great fan of art, I love Michelangelo, if I
had the chance to talk to him or read
about him I would want to know what inspired him to become who he is,
the anatomy of his craftsmanship,
not about who he went out with last night ... what' wrong with ...
I mean that's what is important to me.
Oprah : How much plastic surgery have you had?
Michael : Very, very little. I mean you can count on my two fingers,
I mean let's say this, if you want to
know about those things, all the nosey people in the world, read my
book Moonwalk, it's in my book. You
know, let's put it this way, if all the people in Hollywood who have
had plastic surgery, if they went on
vacation, there wouldn't be a person left in town.
Oprah : Mmm, I think you might be right.
Michael : I think I am right. It would be empty.
Oprah : Did you start having plastic surgery because of those teen years
because of not liking the way
you looked?
Michael : No, not really. It was only two things. Really, get my book, it's no big deal.
Oprah : You don't want to tell me what it is? You had your nose done, obviously.
Michael : Yeah, but so did a lot of people that I know.
Oprah : And so, when you hear all these things about you, and there have been more...
Michael : I've never had my cheekbones done, never had my eyes done,
never had my lips done and all
this stuff. They go too far, but this is stuff that happens every day
with other people.
Oprah : Are you pleased now with the way you look?
Michael : I'm never pleased with anything, I'm a perfectionist, it's part of who I am.
Oprah : And so when you look in the mirror now and so the image that
looks back at you are there days
when you say I kinda like this or I like the way my hair ...
Michael : No. I'm never pleased with myself. No, I try not to look in the mirror.
Oprah : I have to ask you this, so many mothers in my audience have
said to please ask you this question.
Why do you always grab your crotch?
Michael : (Giggle) Why do I grab my crotch?
Oprah : You've got a thing with your crotch going on there.
Michael : I think it happens subliminally. When you're dancing, you
know you are just interpreting the
music and the sounds and the accompaniment if there's a driving base,
if there's a cello, if there's a
string, you become the emotion of what that sound is, so if I'm doing
a movement and I go bam and I
grab myself it's... it's the music that compels me to do it, it's not
saying that I'm dying to grab down
there and it's not in a great place you don't think about it, it just
happens, sometimes I'll look back at
the footage and I go ... and I go did I do that, so I'm a slave to
the rhythm, yeah, okay.
After a commercial break, some of Michael's major achievements are shown:
# 1 Album of All Time
# 2 Album of All Time
Biggest Concert in History
More Music Awards Than Any Other Artist
The 80's Most # 1 Hits
Biggest Endorsements Deal Ever - 15,000,000
dollars
Billion Dollar Entertainment Contract
Entertainner of the Decade
Oprah : When you have broken all those records, when you have the number
one album ever sold, when
you've broken every record there is to break, when you become an icon
of an industry, is there always
the pressure to do something bigger and something better.
Michael : Oh gee, that is something, um, it makes it harder each time
to follow up. You try to be as
original as you can be without thinking about statistics, just you
go from the soul and from the heart.
Oprah : And so when you think of that what do you do, you go, you meditate,
you think, well I will now do
the Superbowl.
Michael : Nooo, I just create out of my heart, really.
Oprah : Liz Taylor said you were king of pop, rock and soul. Where did
this whole notion that you
proclaimed yourself king of pop come from?
Michael : Well, I didn't proclaim myself to be anything. I'm happy to
be alive, I'm happy to be who I
am, king of pop was first said by Elizabeth Taylor on one of the award
shows.
Oprah : And that's where this all started?
Michael : Yes, and the fans ... all the stadiums that we played at they'd
bring banners saying king of pop
and jackets that say king of pop and T-shirts that say king of pop
and they chanted outside my hotel, so
it just became something that just happened all over the world.
Oprah : Do you go out, do you date?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : Who do you date?
Michael : Well, right now it's Brooke Shields. Well, we try not to be
everywhere, go everywhere, it's
mostly at home, she'll come over, I'll go to her house, because I don't
like going out in public.
Oprah : Have you ever been in love?
Michael : Yeah.
Oprah : With Brooke Shields?
Michael : Yes, and another girl.
Oprah : And another girl? Let me ask you this, and it's embarrassing
for me to ask you this, but I'm
gonna ask you anyway, are you a virgin?
Michael : Uhhhhh, how could you ask you that question?
Oprah : I just want to know.
Michael : I'm a gentleman.
Oprah : You're a gentleman?
Michael : I'm a gentleman.
Oprah : I would interpret that to mean that you believe that a lady is a lady and therefore..
Michael : That's something that's private, I mean, it shouldn't be spoken
about openly. ......... You can call
me old fashioned if you want, but, you know I mean that's very personal.
Oprah : So, you're not going to answer it?
Michael : I'm embarrassed.
Oprah : Well, we would like to know whether or not there is a possibility
that you are going to marry
one day and have children?
Michael : I would feel my life is incomplete if I do not 'cause I adore
the family life, I adore children
and I adore that whole thing. And I would love to, that's one of my
dreams, but I couldn't right now
because I'm married, I'm married to my music and there has to be that
closeness in order to do the kind
of work that I want to do and ...
Oprah : What kind of woman makes you - in the video we're going to see
later, we premier the world
video, there's a line where you talk about being quenched, so what
kind of person does that for you?
Michael : (Sings) Quench my desire ... Well Brooke, I've always liked
her and when I was little I used to
stay with Diana Ross, me and my brother stayed with her for years and
I never said, but I always had a
crush on her.
Oprah : You did?
Michael : Yes.
Oprah : I heard too, this was another one of those rumors, that you
had proposed to Elizabeth Taylor at
some point.
Michael : Elizabeth Taylor is gorgeous, beautiful, and she still is today, I'm crazy about her.
Oprah : Yeah, but did you propose to her?
Michael : I would like to have.
Oprah : Well, Elizabeth Taylor is here. Liz? Can we bring Liz out now?
Liz had said she wanted to be
here to hold your hand through this. You don't look like you need your
hand held. Elizabeth Taylor!
Michael : Hi, Elizabeth.
Oprah : Hi.
Elizabeth : Hi.
Oprah : Have a seat.
Elizabeth : Thank you.
Oprah : Did Michael ever propose to you?
Elizabeth : No! And I never proposed to him.
Oprah : Never did! What do you think is most misunderstood about Michael Jackson?
Elizabeth : All the things you mentioned. He is the least weird man
I have ever known. He is highly
intelligent, true, intuitive, understanding, sympathetic, generous
almost to a fault, of himself.
Oprah : Uh-huh.
Elizabeth : Uh, and he just, if, if he has any eccentricities, it's
that he is like larger than life and some
people just cannot accept that or face it or understand it. His talent
on stage, why I call him the King of
pop, rock, soul, music, entertainment, whatever,
Oprah : Yes.
Elizabeth : there's nobody that can come near him. Nobody can dance
like that, write the lyrics like
that, the music, uh, cause the kind of excitement that he does.
Oprah : And why do you think you all are such good friends? What has
brought about this kind of bond?
Because people try to make this weird.
Elizabeth : Well, it's not. I mean, our childhoods are very similar,
and we have that from the very
beginning in common. Um, I was a child star at nine, had an abusive
father, um, and that kind of brought
us close together in the very beginning.
Oprah : And what is it, I am going to ask Michael this question later
on, but, what is it you most want the
world to know about him?
Elizabeth : What a wonderful, giving, caring, generous man he is and how good he is.
Oprah : And he's funny, too.
Elizabeth : Oh, he's wildly funny.
Oprah : He can crack some jokes, I tell you.
Elizabeth : Yes, but he is a good man.
Oprah : When we come back - Thank you for joining us too -
Elizabeth : That's fine.
Oprah : ...cause I know you did not want to be on camera at first, but
thank you. Coming up next,
Michael is going to give us not only a tour of his incredible amusement
park and movie theater, but also a
very special dance performance. For all of you who say he is faking
the Moonwalk with mirrors, we've
got some proof coming up in a minute. Cut to dance clips for intermission
Announcer : Live from Santa
Inez, California. Michael Jackson talks to Oprah.
Oprah : Now this is what's shocking to me, that you even drive. What
we're doing, everybody, is that we
are coming from Michael's house down to this amazing amusement park,
which is, oh, about several
hundred yards from the house. And this is, it's incredible.
Michael : Thank you.
Oprah : And I want to know whether or not you did this for yourself
or did you do it for all the
children that you entertain here?
Michael : For myself and the children. Every three weeks we - terminally ill children that come to - uh-
Oprah : To the house?
Michael : Yes, yes.
Oprah : Make a wish foundation, Dream Street, Starlight, yes?
Michael : Every three weeks - and these are sick children, children with cancer. And I entertain them.
Oprah : Uh-huh.
Michael : And they come here to enjoy themselves.
Oprah : This is unbelievable. What I have to say is, these are, as I
was talking to some kids that were
here, these are not just grandma rides here. These are some major rides.
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : I mean the Sea Dragon, the Ferris Wheel, and there's that Zipper over there.
Michael : The Wipeout.
Oprah : Yeah, the Wipeout, and there are Bumper cars here, it's really-
Michael : Thank you. Well, it brings out the child that lives in every-
body. I love rides and things like
that and I share it with the children.
Oprah : Were you able to do that when you were a kid?
Michael : Not really. Sometimes, sometimes, but not often enough.
Oprah : But now you can anytime.
Michael : Every day. It's right in my back yard.
Oprah : How often do you actually come out here and do this?
Michael : Whenever I'm here I come out and I go on the rides.
Oprah : Well, is this a part of you, what we were talking about earlier,
the pain of growing up and not
being able to experience all the things that kids normally experience
and so now you are fulfilling all
those fantasies.
Michael : To compensate, yes.
Oprah : Really.
Michael : Yes, it is very true.
Oprah : Do you think you can ever really recapture it though? Does it
feel the same? I mean, I don't
know.
Michael : (laughs) It's more fun.
Oprah : Really?
Michael : I wouldn't change the past if I could. I'm enjoying myself.
Oprah : And here we are inside the theater. I had one too many sugar babies at the candy counter.
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : But the candy is here for all the kids. Pinocchio is here, ET
is here. Did you - what's fascinating
to me about you is that obviously you have this childlike aura about
you and I see children with you and
they play with you like you are one of them. But, a child did not do
this.
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : A child did not put this together. This is really magnificent.
Michael : Well, thank you. I - I love to do things for children and
I try to imitate Jesus - and I am not
saying I am Jesus, I'm not saying that.
Oprah : Yes, we're clear on that.
Michael : Right, I'm trying to imitate Jesus in the fact that he said
to be like children, to love children,
to be as pure as children, and to make yourself as innocent and to
see the world through eyes of
wonderment and the whole magical quality of it all and I love that.
And we'll have like a hundred bald
headed children, they all have cancer, and they're all running around.
Oprah : Um-huh.
Michael : And they are enjoying themselves and it makes me cry happy
tears that I was able to do this
for them, you know.
Oprah : Um-huh.
Michael : Makes me so pleased inside.
Oprah : Well, when I came here to, um, about a month ago to shoot a
commercial with you for promoting
tonight's event, one of the things that really impressed me the most,
I hope you guys are getting shots of
this. I don't know how you are, if all the cameras are on us, but,
oh, we got other cameras - is that there
are, built inside the walls here-beds-beds for some of those sick children
who come. And what I realized
when I saw this is that you have to be a person who really cares about
children to build it into your
architecture.
Michael : Yes, yes. We have children that come who are - who intravenously
- they are very sick,
bedridden-
Oprah : They can't sit up.
Michael : Right. They can't sit up and these beds, they are hospital
beds, you push a button, you go up or
you go down and they are able to watch. We have a magic show, we show
the current films, there's
cartoons, anything you know, anything so they can escape to that world
of magic that they don't have a
chance to experience, the world I was deprived of when I was little.
Oprah : Now let me ask you this. You know I believe everything happens
in people's lives for a reason.
Do you think that had you not missed a lot of, uh, the life and fun
and fantasy of childhood that you
would be so in touch with children today. Would you relate to them
as you do?
Michael : I probably would, but not as much. That's why I wouldn't change a thing-
Oprah : Really?
Michael : Because I am happy with the way things are and my caring for young people and everything.
Oprah : Are you really happy now, because you seemed so sad for a long time.
Michael : (laughs) I was sad for years and years and years. But I'm
happy, I'm getting there. Yes, I'm
very happy.
Oprah : And what has made you happier.
Michael : Being able to give back, you know, and to help other people.
Oprah : Uh-huh.
Michael : Heal the World Foundation which I've formed which helps children
in healing in the world.
We're doing Heal L. A., which is uh, we have three primary goals in
mind: immunization of children,
mentoring-a big sister, big brother program, and education in drug
abuse. And Jimmy Carter has teamed
up with us to do Heal Atlanta and we're going to go from state to state
healing-- you know we've gone to
Sarajevo, we've done lots of places.
Oprah : I know, I know, we have photographs of you from all over the
world where you are with all these
children. One of the things I was saying before we went to the last
break, before the alarm went off in
the house and all that-
Michael : Yeah-
Oprah : is that, uh, we were talking about the rumors. One of the strangest
ones I heard was that when
you're Moonwalking, you're faking it, that you have some mirrors in
your socks someplace.
Michael : Oh, boy!
Oprah : And it's not really real.
Michael : No, that's not true.
Oprah : How did you, first of all, you know we've spent so much time
trying to dispel the rumors, trying
to get the truth out that I haven't had a really opportunity to talk
to you about how you conceive your
music, how you conceive the dance. Where did the Moonwalk come from?
Michael : Well, the Moonwalk came from these beautiful children, the
black kids who live in the ghettos,
you know, the inner cities, who are brilliant, that just have that
natural talent for dancing any of these
new - the running man - any of these dances. They come up with these
dances, all I did was enhance the
dance.
Oprah : O.K. I want to see you dance.
Michael : Oh, God, no, no.
Oprah : I want to see you dance. I want to see you dance, live.
Michael : No, no. I can show you a step or two, but, I'm a little rusty right now.
Oprah : A little rusty?!
[Michael goes on stage and dances to Dangerous.]
Michael : That's the Moonwalk - wait, you need to catch it from the - sideways.
Oprah : You gotta turn sideways?
Michael : Are you from the front?
Oprah : Yeah, we got ya!
Michael : Catch it from the sideways.
Oprah : O.k. Just show me slow motion. Could you show me slow motion?
Michael : O.K., wait, it's like, it's pushing and then there's like a popping type of thing.
[Michael stops dancing and comes down from stage.]
Michael : I'm sorry.
Oprah : (applauding) Well, I saw it live, I saw it live, I saw it live.
And so you took it from the kids who
were doing it.
Michael : Yeah, because, um, I think they are the real dancers.
Oprah : Yeah! And when you are, for instance, when we were here before,
when we were here before to
shoot that commercial, you were--
Michael : You were supposed to do this with me! (laughing)
Oprah : I don't know how to do this!
Michael : (laughing)
Oprah : You know I don't know how to do this!
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : You know what? I mean all the things that were printed in the
tabloids, the only thing that's
ever been true was when they said I couldn't dance. Now that's the
truth!
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : When we were here the last time shooting the commercial, you
were like in between shots
running off and conceiving the dance, choreographing the dance, you
were up all night dancing.
Michael : For the Super Bowl.
Oprah : Yes, yes.
Michael : Yes, well, I'm never satisfied. Even when I see something
that I've done and people say oh it
was so phenomenal - when I did Motown 25 and I did the Moonwalk for
the first time, I was backstage
crying afterwards.
Oprah : Why?
Michael : Because I was unhappy.
Oprah : You cried after Motown 25??
Michael : After Motown 25, yes. But, then as I was walking to the car
there was this little boy, he was
like 12, was a little Jewish kid, and he said, " OOOOO, you were amazing.
Who taught you to ever dance
like that?". And for the first time, I felt I did a good job, because
I know children don't lie and I just
felt so good about it then.
Oprah : You wanted to, you felt so good, you probably wanted to say- (imitating Michael) HEH-HEH!
Michael : (laughs) Heh-heh!
Oprah : I want you to sing something acapella for me, if you can.
Michael : Oh, no! What could I sing?
Oprah : Who is it, you know do that whole little beat thing, since we're here in the theater.
Michael : Um, oh, boy, what could I sing? Who Is It?
Oprah : Where did that Heh-heh thing come from? Heh-heh.
Michael : Heh-heh! (starts the beat and makes instrument sounds to Who
Is It?) (sings) I gave my money,
I gave my time, I gave her everything in life one heart could find.
It doesn't seem to matter and it
doesn't seem right, but the will has brought no fortune, still I cry
alone at night. Don't you judge of my
composure cause I'm bothered every day, and she didn't leave a letter,
she just up and ran away.
Oprah : OOOWWWW! Fabulous!
Michael : I mean, you wanted me to do it! I get embarrassed. I'm sorry. I get embarrassed.
Oprah : I like it very much. Thank you very much for that. We're going
to come right back with more of
Michael Jackson live--- That was GREAT! (hugs Michael)
[Cut to clips for intermission]
Oprah : One of the reasons we wanted to look at that piece when we went
to break there was because
music videos used to be you, used to just be people singing their song
until you came along and changed
music videos. Did you know when you first conceived your first one
that's what you were doing? Michael
: Yeah. The idea was to make something that was a story so it had a
beginning, a middle and an ending.
Oprah : Uh-huh. Michael : So it felt like a mini movie, that's what
I wanted to do. And that is what we
did with Beat It and Thriller and Smooth Criminal and all those type
of things.
Oprah : So when you start to look at a piece of work or look at a piece
of music, are you already
thinking about how you are going to -- Michael : Sometimes, yes, that
is very true.
Oprah : Uh-huh. I wonder what it feels like, I will never know since
I cannot sing one thing, but, what it
feels like to be on stage with a sea of people, a sea of people. One
of the things that has impressed me in
putting the pieces together for you, is all around the world, the response
to you is so incredible. I just
wanted to, for the rest of you in the world who haven't seen how people
respond to Michael Jackson to
take a look---
[Cut to concert clips and crowd scenes from around the world, with Will
You Be There playing as
background music.]
Oprah : So, when you're standing there and there's a sea of people responding
to you, screaming you
name as they were, what does it feel like?
Michael : Love, you just feel lots of love and I feel blessed and honored
to be able to be an instrument
of nature that was chosen to give them that, what I give them. I'm
very honored and happy about that.
Oprah : An instrument of nature-that's an interesting way to describe your- self.
Michael : Thank you, yes.
Oprah : Are you very spiritual?
Michael : In what sense?
Oprah : I mean, do you, do you meditate? Do you understand that there's
something bigger than yourself
at work here?
Michael : I believe in God, absolutely, absolutely, very much.
Oprah : Uh-huh. And I believe that everybody comes to the world for
a reason. I think, um, most of us
spend our lives trying to figure out what the purpose of our being
here is. What do you think yours is?
Michael : My purpose?
Oprah : Uh-huh.
Michael : Oh, boy, I think, um, to give in the best way I can through
song, and through dance and through
music. I mean, I am committed to my art. I believe that all art has
as it's ultimate goal the union between
the material and the spiritual, the human and the divine. I believe
that to be the reason for the very
existence of art.
Oprah : Uh-huh.
Michael : And, um, I feel I was chosen as an instrument to just give
music and love and harmony to the
world. To children of all ages, and um, adults and teenagers.
Oprah : Do you think that by talking now, setting the record straight
for yourself, that maybe people
will be able to focus more attention on your music and not judge you
for anything other than the kind of
music that you play?
Michael : I would hope so. I would love that.
Oprah : Well, I hope that comes out of this, too. I'm also excited that
the world is watching, and
because the world is watching, we thought this was a good time to let
the world see the world premiere
of Give In To Me. Cut to world premiere showing of Give In To Me video.
Oprah : So, we want to know how it starts on a piece of paper-quench my desire-and turns into that.
Michael : Well, Give In To Me, I wanted to write another song, you know,
that was kinda exciting and
fun and had a rock edge to it. You know, like when I did Beat It and
Black or White. And Slash, who's a
dear friend of mine, we love animals and things like that, he wanted
to play guitar and I wanted him to
play guitar. We got together and we went to Germany and we shot this
thing in just like two hours. We
had no time at all to shoot it. We wanted it to be exciting and fantastical
and fans, you know, like it's a
rock concert and that's how it ends up-that's the result.
Oprah : You mentioned animals. I know everyone's going to ask me when
I leave here, where are all the
animals? I said it in the opening, I expected chimps to be jumping
all over the living room and I didn't
see any. Where's Bubbles?
Michael : (laughs) Well, the animals are everywhere. They're in their
habitats. They're all over the
ranch. And they come out in the daytime and they play and jump around,
they have their own playground
and area.
Oprah : Why, why were you so fascinated by animals, do you think?
Michael : Because I find in animals the same thing I find so wonderful
in children. That purity, that
honesty, where they don't judge you, they just want to be your friend.
I think that is so sweet.
Oprah : I do, too. We'll be right back with Michael Jackson, live.
Announcer : Michael Jackson talks to Oprah. Ninety prime-time minutes with the King of Pop.
Oprah : We're live at Michael Jackson's house, in his theater and we
asked NBC for ninety minutes. I
don't think it was enough time.
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : I think we've cleared up all the rumors though. There are no chimps running around the house-
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : No oxygen tank in the house. I don't know, are you going to lay off the crotch a little bit?
Michael : (laughs) Ask the music.
Oprah : Ask the music will you lay off the crotch. Oh, we didn't get
about the inauguration. Did you tell
President Clinton that you had to be the only person there singing?
Michael : That is horrible. That is the stupidest, craziest story that
I have ever heard. I mean, why
would I just want me and nobody else could be on the show, just me.
That's so stupid, to me. I mean, it's
crazy. That's not even in my heart. I would never say any- thing like
that. Again, somebody made it up
and the whole world believed it . It is so false, it's incredible.
Oprah : What do you want, want most-what do you want the world to know
about you most? I asked Liz
that of you, what do you want them to know?
Michael : Like to be remembered for?
Oprah : Not to be remembered for-what about for now? Forget remembered.
Michael : Oh, known for now. As to be an artist, a great artist. I,
I love what I do and I would love
people to love what I do and to be loved. I just simply want to be
loved wherever I go. All over the
world, because I love people of all races from my heart, with true
affection.
Oprah : Hmm. You know, Gene Siskel who's a movie critic asked me this
question once. And I love the
question, so I am going to ask you.
Michael : Yeah?
Oprah : You're 34 years old. What do you know for sure?
Michael : Hmm. What do I know for sure?
Oprah : What do you know for sure?
Michael : Oh, boy, I'm still learning. I mean, life is an education
for me. I can't say that I know anything
for sure. I really believe that.
Oprah : I can't thank you enough for letting us in and I wish you all
the happiness in the world. I loved
being here because it makes me feel like a child again and one of the
things I promised myself was that
when this interview was over-live around the world- I was going to
go get on that Ferris Wheel!
Michael : (laughs)
Oprah : And that is exactly what I intend to do. I'm gonna take off
my blue shoes and I'm gonna ride
that Ferris Wheel!
Michael : (continues laughing)
Oprah : I'm gonna have a good time and have myself a little popcorn,
maybe, and maybe when it's all
over, you'll teach me how to do the Moonwalk-when everybody's not looking!
Michael : O.K.! O.K.! That sounds good.
Oprah : Yeah! This was fun!
Michael : Yeah! Lots of fun!
They leave the theater together to go to the amusement park.
End of program.
