Sorry, I don’t know how to spell this Eutho guy’s name right! Sorry!!!!
Eutho claims to know what piety is, but Socrates asks him to tell him. Page 75 5
d. but Socrates isn't pleased with the definitions Second definition... It's what the
gods love. But Socrates doesn’t like that definition either. He says, but different gods
love different things, so which god loves the pious thing? So Eutho gives a third
definition, ALL the gods love piety. Socrates says let's examine this statement, and Eutho
agrees. Now, 10 is an important part, because this is where the most important
philosophical question that is ever asked, is asked. (Clark is even thinking about writing a
paper on how this was the ONLY philosophical question ever asked) "Is the pious loved
by the gods because it is pious or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"(Asked by
Socrates)
1. Loving -----makes-----> something worthy of love.
2. Believing -----makes----> something true
3. Hating -------makes------>something worthy of hate.
1. Whether it's loved or not <-----makes----if known to be loved.
2. Whether something is believed or not <----makes--- if something is known to be true you will believe it and know it to be true at the same time.
3. Whether it's hated or not <---makes--- the thing worthy of hate, if known.
So in other words, if it's known that something is hated, you must hate it, if something is known to be loved, you must love it, and if something is known to be true, you must believe it.
This is the view of PHYSIS This is the Socratic/Platonic view of physis. The general view is a little different. The general view of physis is you have a choice, you can know something worthy of love, but hate it, and you can know something to be true, and not believe it. Also, objects simply are, not based on actions, or knowledge. Socratic/Platonic view is much more strict. If you know that something is true, you MUST believe, and if you know that something is worthy of love, you MUST love it. We are more concerned here with the Socratic and Platonic view.
Most men believe in nomos, because they like the no rules thing. Esp. young men. But then men have daughters, and suddenly there are rules and they subscribe to the view of physis. All women subscribe to physis, except the spaz ones who have boyfriends/husbands that beat them up, but say that because they are going to love them so that they'd be good boys. Like on cops. (Bad boys bad boys, what ya gonna do when they come for you...) Guys do this too, oh man, "My girlfriend had a thing with Bill, and then she got drunk and slept with Gary and Lisa at the same time, MAN!!" And he didn't do what he said he was going to do on Friday. And the cab service knows him, "Hi, this is Fred, come get me." He only went to his friend's house, talked philosophy and had a few drinks. "Philosophy is one big joke... I'm dead serious." An example of Socratic irony.ANYWAY!!
On to definition #4! 12 is all that is just pious or is all that is pious just? The two agree that everything that is pious is just. But in here, the author takes out a rather confusing part, about the difference between a plate being carried and carrying a plate, but that’s not the important part. Eutho makes a joke about Daedlaus, Socrates’ mythological ancestor.
The 5th definition... "Is piety then, which is the care of the gods also to..." Eutho's answer is very important, he says NO!! I didn't mean it like that. Because the gods are immortal and cannot be benefited by mere mortals, and to say the opposite would be committing an act of Hubris.
The 7th definition... 14 d-e... "Piety would then be a sort of trading skill...” And Eutho answers, reluctantly, "yeah, I guess you could call it that."A child's vision, his beliefs are no more refined than a child's. (A child's vision is "dear lord! If you let me pass this test I'll never say the F word again." Or, "Please God, let me get a bicycle for Christmas, and I promise I'll never pull Susie’s hair again!")
8th Definition... 15 b... "So the pious is once again what is dear to the gods?" Here Socrates makes a joke about Daedales, but mockingly at Eutho. Eutho makes a fallacy, called circular reasoning. Socrates wants to continue their discussion, but Eutho doesn't want to. He still says he knows what Piety is and stuff, but he's not going to stay around long enough for Socrates to show him that he doesn't, all in 15 d-e/.
Socrates wants to know a Form of this Piety, so that if he's ever in doubt, he can just look at the Form and decide, but Eutho can't do this for him. So if you have the definition of a duck, you can determine whether a goose is a duck. This is the foundation for secular ethics. But now, we must note, is that we don't have to ask the gods what is. Something is what it is and even a god can't change that. (That still holds true today in current religious beliefs.)THE END.Read the Apology for tomorrow's class, thank you and goodinght!
