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On this Page:| Summary | St. Augustine | St. Jerome | St. Chrysostom | Nestorius | St. Basil | |Clement of Rome | St. Polycarp | Barnabus | Justin Martyr | Clement of Rome | Cyril of Alexandria | Socrates Scholasticus | Vincent of Lerins | St. Cyprian | Theodoret | St. Hilary | St. Gregory the Great | Iraeneus | Origin | John Cassian | Tertullian | Gregory of Nyssa |
| Smoke-and-Mirrors | [The Fathers: by Topic]
Confession [St. Augustine] [St. Jerome] [St. John Chrysostom] [ Socrates Scholasticus ] [ Tertullian ]
Scripture [St. Augustine]
Sola Scriptura [St. Augustine] [Iraeneus][Cyril of Jerusalem][Gregory of Nyssa][St. Jerome][St. John Chrysostom][St. Basil]
Peter as Bishop of Rome [St. Augustine] [St. Cyril of Alexandria][St.John Chrysostom] [Vincent of Lerins] [St. Cyprian][Clement of Rome] [Theodoret, Bishop of Cyprus][St. Hilary][St. Gregory the Great] [Iraeneus ] [Origin ] [John Cassian ]
More topics to be added as time allows.
I must be a few sandwiches short of a picnic! But if I wish to be both fair and accurate in my evaluation of the Church of Rome, I had to check out 'the Fathers' for myself. Once again, as in so many other places, so many other ways, I learned that Rome is a master of deceit. I found that 'the Fathers' did not agree on a lot of things. I also found that a lot of them clearly and directly contradict what Rome teaches!
Here, for your enlightenment, are quotations from just a few of 'the Fathers' on key Roman Catholic dogmas, doctrines and Traditions. See for yourself that Rome is not telling the truth about the origins of things, and the so-called 'unanimous consent of the Fathers.' But first, let us examine the infallible declarations of the Roman Catholic Church regarding the interpretation of Scripture vis-a-vis the supposed "unanimous consent of the Fathers:"
| Rome's Declarations on 'the Fathers'
"I also admit the holy Scriptures, according to that sense which our holy mother Church has held and does hold, to which it belongs to judge the true sense and interpretation of the Scriptures: neither will I ever take and interpret them otherwise than according to the unanimous consent of The Fathers." Pope Pius IV, Profession of the Tridentine Faith, Article 3 (emphasis mine) "Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, it (the Council of Trent) decrees that no one, relying on his own skill, shall, in matters of faith and of morals. . . . presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy Mother church, to whom it belongs to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, hath held and doth hold; or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers. . ." (Dogmatic Cannons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, TAN Books and Publishers, Page 11; emphasis mine.). |
Here we have an infallible Pope, making an infallible declaration on a matter of faith. Note that Rome says the Popes claim infallibility only when speaking 'from the chair', or in their official capacity, on matters of faith and morals. Just as an aside, watch Pope John Paul II! He's been making moves to extend his 'infallible power' to include almost anything he says! This topic is covered in Limits of Papal Infallibility.
If we are to take Rome's word for it that all of her interpretations of Scriptures that underpin Rome's official dogmas, doctrines and Traditions have the 'unanimous consent of the Fathers,' we are bound in conscience to examine the writings of those 'Fathers.' A friend once asked me a rhetorical question: "How many white crows does it take to prove that not all crows are black?" A fair question, don't you think? Applied to this declaration of Rome, the question becomes, "How many contradictions from 'the Fathers' does it take to prove Rome a liar?"
The answer is, 'just one.' My research thus far reveals dozens of such contradictions!
| QUESTION: What must you conclude if you discover many of Rome's practices are not just contradicted, but condemned by many of those 'Fathers?' |
Your Answer? |
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I have included in this section selected writings of the 'Fathers of the Church' for your consideration. Read them for yourself; make up your own mind about Rome's claim. Also, if you have any comments or criticisms, please visit our Message Board, where you can record them.
[Augustine on Mary] [Augustine on Supremacy of Peter ]
In the tenth book of his Confessions, Chapter III, St. Augustine says,
"What have I to do with men that they should hear my confessions, as if they were able to heal my infirmities? The human race is very curious to know another person's life, but very lazy to correct it."
Here is a denial of the practice of confession if ever I read one. What do you think?
"In like manner, God hath made the Scriptures to stoop to the capacities of babes and sucklings." (Enarr. In Psalm, viii, 8, Vol. Iv., 42)
"Scarcely anything is drawn out from the more obscure places of Scripture which is not most plainly spoken elsewhere." (De Doct. Crh. Ii, 8. Vol. Iii, 22).
So much for Rome's position that the Scriptures are too complicated, to obscure, for the average person to understand. So much for Rome's demand that she, and she alone, has an infallible ability to interpret Scripture for others. No, Rome, you do not have the consent of the Fathers!
| QUESTION: How can the Roman Catholic Church say that Scripture is too complicated for the average person when one of Rome's greatest 'Fathers' says the exact opposite? |
Your Answer? |
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"Mary, springing from Adam, died because of sin; and the flesh of our Lord, derived from Mary, died to take away sin." (De Peccatorum Meritis, ii, c. 24).
Keep in mind, dear surfer, that the Roman Catholic Church uses obfuscation to divert attention from the historical fact that Mary actually died and was buried. Rome never comes right out and says that she died! No, she says instead that "When her earthly work was done she was assumed into Heaven." Can you figure this evasion? Can you discern Rome's reason? Yes, indeed. What with Rome's elevating Mary to the status of the Trinity, and worshiping Mary as our divine 'Mediatrix of all Graces,' Rome has painted herself into a corner. To admit that Mary was a sinner just like us would put the lie to Rome's dogma of the Immaculate Conception, wouldn't it!
| QUESTION: What, according to Saint Augustine, a Father of the Church, was the reason for Mary's death? | I agree with Augustine when he says that Mary died because she was a sinner, because 'the wages of sin is death.' (Romans 6:23) | I agree with the Roman Catholic Church, which has no explanation for why Mary had to die. |
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"This mediator (Jesus Christ), first through the Prophets, then by his own lips, afterwards through the Apostles, revealed whatever he considered necessary. He also inspired the Scripture, which is regarded as canonical and of supreme authority and to which we give credence concerning all those truths we ought to know and yet, of ourselves, are unable to learn." (City of God, copyright 1958 by Fathers of the Church, Inc., edited by Vernon J. Bourke, ISBN 0-385-02910-1, page 207).
"For holy Scripture setteth a rule to our teaching, that we dare not 'be wise more than it behooveth to be wise;'.... Be it not therefore for me to teach you any other thing, save to expound to you the words of the Teacher, and to treat of them as the Lord shall give me." (Augustine, De Bono Viduitatis (on the Good of Widowhood)
| QUESTION: What level of authority do the Scriptures have? | Augustine
... said Scripture is the supreme (highest) authority. |
Catholic Church
... says that Scripture was equal in authority to Roman Catholic Tradition. |
| QUESTION: What is the only authority for 'setting a rule to our (Church's) teachings? | Augustine
says that Scripture alone must be used to determine the limits of what the Church will teach. |
Catholic Church
... says that both Scripture and Roman Catholic Tradition have equal authority for setting the limits of what the Church will teach. |
| Which will you believe, Saint Augustine or the Roman Catholic Church? | I believe Augustine | I believe Rome |
Statements of Fact:
1. Rome claims that her own, man-made Tradition is of equal value to Scripture when it comes to matters of dogma, doctrine, and church teachings.
2. Rome claims to interpret Scripture only in accordance with 'the unanimous consent of the Fathers.'
3. Rome bases many doctrines and dogmas upon her interpretation of Scriptures.
4. Saint Augustine, most prominent of those 'fathers' states that Scripture alone is the highest authority.
5. Saint Augustine also writes that the Scriptures are written for the average person, and that Scripture must be used to interpret Scripture (See above).
6. Other Fathers of the Church write that we must reject any teaching that is not clearly supported by the Scriptures.
| QUESTION: Does Saint Augustine agree with the Roman Catholic Church regarding her equating man-made Tradition with Scripture? |
Your Answer? |
| QUESTION: Does Saint Augustine contradict the Roman Catholic Church regarding her equating man-made Tradition with Scripture? | Your Answer? |
| QUESTION: If a teaching of Roman Catholic tradition contradicts Scripture, which must you believe: Rome or God's Word? | Your Answer? |
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Second Citation: (Augustine, Volume VI, Sermon XXVI)
"Again, when the Lord Jesus Christ asked, whom men said that He was, and when the disciples gave the various opinions of men, and the Lord asked again and said, "But whom say ye that I am?" Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." One for many gave the answer, Unity in many. Then said the Lord to Him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjonas: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven." Then He added, "and I say unto thee." As if He had said, "Because thou hast said unto Me, 'Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God;' I also say unto thee, 'Thou art Peter.'" For before he was called Simon.For the rock (Petra) is the original name. Therefore Peter is so called from the rock; not the rock from Peter; as Christ is not called Christ from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. "Therefore," he saith, "Thou art Peter; and upon this Rock" which thou hast confessed, upon this Rock which thou hast acknowledged, saying, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church;" that is upon Myself, the Son of the living God, "will I build My Church." I will build thee upon Myself, not Myself upon thee.
2. For men who wished to be built upon men, said "I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas," who is Peter. But others who did not wish to be built upon Peter, but upon the Rock, said, "But I am of Christ." And when the Apostle Paul ascertained that he was chosen, and Christ despised, he said, "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" And, as not in the name of Paul, so neither in the name of Peter; but in the name of Christ: that Peter might be built upon the Rock, not the Rock upon Peter.
3. This same Peter therefore who had been by the Rock pronounced "blessed," bearing the figure of the Church, holding the chief place in the Apostleship, a very little while after that he had heard that he was "blessed," a very little while after that he had heard that he was "Peter," a very little while after that he had heard that he was to be "built upon the Rock," displeased the Lord when He had heard of His future Passion, for He had foretold His disciples that it was soon to be. He feared test he should by death, lose Him whom he had confessed as the fountain of life. He was troubled, and said, "Be it far from Thee, Lord: this shall not be to Thee." Spare Thyself, O God, I am not willing that Thou shouldest die. Peter said to Christ, I am not willing that Thou shouldest die; but Christ far better said, I am willing to die for thee. And then He forthwith rebuked him, whom He had a little before commended; and calleth him Satan, whom he had pronounced "blessed." "Get thee behind Me, Satan," he saith, "thou art an offence unto Me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." What would He have us do in our present state, who thus findeth fault because we are men? Would you know what He would have us do? Give ear to the Psalm; "I have said, Ye are gods, and ye are all the children of the Most High." But by savouring the things of men; "ye shall die like men." The very same Peter a little while before blessed, afterwards Satan, in one moment, within a few words! Thou wonderest at the difference of the names, mark the difference of the reasons of them. Why wonderest thou that he who was a little before blessed, is afterwards Satan? Mark the reason wherefore he is blessed. "Because flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven." Therefore blessed, because flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee. For if flesh and blood revealed this to thee, it were of thine own; but because flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven, it is of Mine, not of thine own. Why of Mine? "Because all things that the Father hath are Mine." So then thou hast heard the cause, why he is "blessed," and why he is "Peter." But why was he that which we shudder at, and are loth to repeat, why, but because it was of thine own? "For thou savourest not the things which be of God, but those that be of men." (Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Augustine, Volume VI, Sermon XXVI (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.)
Third Citation: Augustine, Tractates on John; Tractate 3, CXXIV
"For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, "On this rock will I build my Church," because Peter had said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed. I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself also built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus." (Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Volume VII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.
Fourth Citation (Augustine, Volume VII, Homily X)
"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." And this he heard from the Lord: "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." See what praises follow this faith. "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church." What meaneth, "Upon this rock I will build my Church"? Upon this faith; upon this that has been said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Upon this rock," saith He, "I will build my Church." (Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Volume VII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.)
Fifth Citation (Augustine on the Psalms, Volume VII, Psalm LXI
"For Christ Himself is the tower, Himself for us hath been made a tower from the face of the enemy, who is also the Rock whereon hath been builded the Church." (Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Volume VIII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.)
| QUESTION: Who does St. Augustine repeatedly say is the Rock upon which the Church is to be built? | Peter | Jesus |
| QUESTION: Which is most consistent with the rest of Scripture: to say that Christ is the Rock - or that Peter is the Rock on which the Church of Christ is founded? | Christ | Peter |
| QUESTION: Which is most reasonable to believe: that Christ founded His Church on a man whom He called 'Satan' and who later denied Christ - or upon Christ Himself, via a confession of faith in Him? | Your Answer? | |
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"Never sit in secret, alone, in a retired place, with a female who is alone with you. If she has any particular thing to tell you, let her take the female attendant of the house, a young girl, a widow, or a married woman. She cannot be so ignorant of the rules of human life as to expect to have you as the only one whom she can trust those things."
In his biography of the life of St. Paulina, St. Jerome presents a minutely detailed review of that woman's fine Christian life, including such minute items as how her bed was constructed, trips that she took, and so forth. Had Jerome been a modern Catholic priest, he most assuredly would have mentioned her 'frequent confessions' as a sign of her outstanding Catholic piety. But he said not a word about it. A remarkable omissions, don't you think?
| QUESTION: Did St. Jerome, an early 'Father of the Church,' believe in, practice, or recommend the practice of private auricular confession? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Does Rome enjoy the "unanimous consent of the Fathers" on her doctrine of auricular confession? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Did St. Jerome specifically forbid the practice of auricular confession? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Does the Roman Catholic Church continuously practice something that a Father of the Church forbade! | Yes | No |
"As we accept those things that are written, so we reject those things that are not written (in Scripture)" (Adv. Helvid).
"These things which they invent, as if by Apostolic tradition, without the authority of Scripture, the sword of God smites." (In Aggari Proph. Cap. I, II).
Wow! I wonder if Rome ever read these words of one of her most famous 'Fathers?!' He specifically condemns the establishment of dogmas and doctrines under the pretense of having Apostolic authority, or, in Rome's words, the 'unanimous consent of the Fathers!' Yet the Church of Rome has dozens of practices so constituted!
| QUESTION: How can the Roman Catholic Church claim the 'unanimous consent of the Fathers' when that consent is so clearly absent? | Your Answer? | |
| QUESTION: How can the Roman Catholic Church continue to practice things that are condemned by her own 'Fathers?" | Your Answer? | |
| QUESTION: Does Rome enjoy the "Unanimous consent of the Fathers" when she claims that Scripture is not the final authority? | Yes | No |
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"We do not ask you to go and confess your iniquities to a sinful man for pardon - but only to God." (Ibid.)
"You need no witness of your confession. Secretly acknowledge your sins and let God alone hear you." (Chrysostom, De Paenitentia, Volume IV, Col. 901)
"Therefore, I beseech you, always confess your sins to God! I, in no way, ask you to confess them to me. To God alone should you expose the wounds of your soul, and from him alone expect the cure. Go to Him, then, and you shall not be cast off, but healed. For, before you utter a single word, God knows your prayer." (Chrysostom, De Incomprehensibili, Volume I, Homily V)
| QUESTION: Does St. Chrysostom clearly state that all things that are necessary (i.e., for salvation, for doctrine, etc.) are already present and evident in Scripture? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Does the Roman Catholic Church teach that all things that are necessary (i.e., for salvation, for doctrine, etc.) are not already present and evident in Scripture, but that her traditions are equally necessary, and of equal value to Scripture? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Since it is impossible to answer both the above questions "yes," (they are mutually contradictory and mutually exclusive), which one is teaching doctrinal error? | (1) St. Chrysostom
was teaching error.
(2) Rome is teaching error. | |
First Citation: "'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church;' that is, on the faith of his confession." (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church, Oxford: Parker, 1844; Homilies of S. John Chrysostom on the Gospel of Matthew, Homily 54.3)
Second Citation: "' And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my church;' that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were now on the point of believing, and raises his spirit and makes him a shepherd, 'And the gates of hell' shall not prevail against it." (Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Volume X (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997.)
Third Citation: "What then saith Christ? 'Thou art Simon, the son of Jonas; thou shalt be called Cephas.' "Thus since thou hast proclaimed my Father, I too name him that begat thee;" all but saying, "As thou art son of Jonas, even so am I of my Father." Else it were superfluous to say, "Thou art Son of Jonas;" but since he had said, "Son of God," to point out that He is so Son of God, as the other son of Jonas, of the same substance with Him that begat Him, therefore He added this, "And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church;" that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were now on the point of believing, and raises his spirit, and makes him a shepherd. "And the gates of hell" shall not prevail against it." (Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Volume X, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.)
| QUESTION: Who does St. John Chrysostom identify as the ROCK upon which the true Church will be built - Peter or Christ Himself via Peter's confession of faith? | Jesus is the Rock | Peter is the Rock |
| QUESTION: Does Rome enjoy the "Unanimous consent of the Fathers" on this topic? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Since St. Chrysostom says Jesus is the ROCK, and Rome says the Peter is the ROCK, both cannot be right. One of the two is teaching doctrinal error; which one? | St. Chrysostom is teaching error | Rome is teaching error |
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| Citation removed pending verification of authenticity. (07/18/2000) |
Rome's Unscriptural Practices Yes, she most certainly has. Search the Scriptures and you will not find a single word commending any of the following Roman Catholic dogmas, doctrines and Traditions:
| QUESTION: Can you see how the Roman Catholic Church stands condemned by her own 'Fathers of the Church?' |
Your Answer? |
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Citation removed pending verification of authenticity. (07/18/2000) St. Basil on Sola Scriptura-3
"If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore, let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth." [Basil of Caesarea, Letter CLXXXIX; A Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, Second Series (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983), Page 229]Here Father of the Church St. Basil affirms his belief in the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. How clear can you get? St. Basil, mirroring St. Paul, tells us to be like the Bereans - to TEST the things that are said against Scripture before accepting them.
I can't resist comparing this instruction from a great Father of the Church with the following, from Karl Keating, one of today's best-known Roman Catholic apologists:
"Fundamentalists also cite Acts 17:11, which refers to the Bereans, who 'welcomed the word with all eagerness, and examined the scriptures day after day to find out whether all this was true.' Again, here is a verse taken out of context. What really happened is that these people first had been taught Christianity orally and now checked to see if its claims matched the Old Testament prophecies. The verse does not at all mean one uses the Bible as a checklist for all Christian doctrines." (Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, Page 140 (with Rome's Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat, designations that say this book accurately reflects official Catholic doctrine).A clever bit of word-magic from Mr. Keating! It does give the official Roman Catholic position. Now compare Keating's statement with that of St. Basil. They contradict each other! St. Basil tells us to do just what the Bereans did - use the Scriptures as a checklist, or source of verification for all teachings on the Christian Faith! Keating, and Rome, disagree with St. Basil, don't they?
QUESTION: Does St. Basil tell us to test what we are taught against the Scriptures? Yes No QUESTION: Does St. Basil tell us to reject any teaching that is not supported by Scripture? Yes No QUESTION: Does the Roman Catholic Church tell us to not test what we are taught against Scripture alone - but to just believe their traditions? Yes No QUESTION: Does the Roman Catholic Church teach doctrines that cannot be found in Scripture, and that usually are contradicted by Scripture? Yes No QUESTION: Does Roman Catholic apologist Keating agree with Father of the Church St. Basil - or contradict him? Your Answer? QUESTION: Who do you believe, a great Father of the Church who was far closer to the original sources, or Mr. Keating and his Roman Catholic Church? Both cannot be right! Your Answer?
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Cyril of Alexandria
[ On Peter as 'the Rock' ]Cyril on Peter as 'the Rock'
Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444 A.D.) wrote: "Now by the word 'rock,' Jesus indicated I think the immovable faith of the disciple." (Commentary on Isaiah IV.2, M.P.G., Vol. 70, Col 940.)
QUESTION: Does Father of the Church Cyril of Alexandria agree with St. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom that it is Jesus, not Peter, who is the Rock upon which the true Church will be built? Yes No QUESTION: Do we now have several Fathers of the Church who identify the "Rock" as Jesus, and not as Peter? Yes No QUESTION: Which is more reasonable - to found the Church of Christ on a fallible, sinful man, or on the perfect Son of God? Your Answer?
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Socrates Scholasticus
[ On Auricular Confession, or Penance ]Of the Office of Penitentiary Presbyters and its Abolition. At this time it was deemed requisite to abolish the office of those presbyters in the churches who had charge of the penitences: this was done on the following account. When the Novatians separated themselves from the Church because they would not communicate with those who had lapsed during the persecution under Decius, the bishops added to the ecclesiastical canon a presbyter of penitence in order that those who had sinned after baptism might confess their sins in the presence of the presbyter thus appointed. And this mode of discipline is still maintained among other heretical institutions by all the rest of the sects; the Homoousians only, together with the Novatians who hold the same doctrinal views, have abandoned it. [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume II, Chapter XIX (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.)1997.]
QUESTION: Does this Father of the Church identify auricular confession as a form of heresy? Your answer? QUESTION: How can the Roman Catholic Church, which promises to teach nothing that does not have the Unanimous Consent of the Fathers of the Church, continue to teach and practice Penance when Fathers of the Church consider it a heresy? Your answer?
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Vincent of Lerins
Vincent of Lerins on Peter and the Rock
"How the confession of the blessed Peter is the faith of the whole Church.But what are the other words which follow that saying of the Lord's, with which He commends Peter? "And I," said He, "say unto thee, that thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church." Do you see how the saying of Peter is the faith of the Church?" [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume XI, Chapter XIV (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
St. Cyprian on Peter and the Rock
"I say unto thee, that thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." And again to the same He says, after His resurrection, "Feed nay sheep." And although to all the apostles, after His resurrection, He gives an equal power, and says, "As the Father hath sent me, even so send I you: Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they shall be remitted unto him; and whose soever sins ye retain, they shall be retained; " yet, that He might set forth unity, He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity, as beginning from one. Assuredly the rest of the apostles were also the same as was Peter, endowed with a like partnership both of honour and power; but the beginning proceeds from unity." [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume V, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
QUESTION: Does St. Cyprian confirm or contradict that Peter has superior power over all others, including other Apostles? He confirms that Peter has superior power and authority St. Cyprian says that all the apostles have equal power and authority. QUESTION: Does St. Cyprian agree with or contradict Rome's doctrine of Peter's supremacy over all others, including other Apostles? St. Cyprian confirms Rome's doctrine. St. Cyprian contradicts Rome's doctrine. QUESTION: How can Rome teach that which her own "Fathers" deny? Your Answer?
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Clement of Rome
[On Peter and the Rock]Clement on Peter and the Rock
First Citation: Clement, the homily, the anaphora (an early church liturgy)XXXIII. The Priest by himself standing: That they may be to all that partake of them for remission of sins, and for life everlasting, for the sanctification of souls and of bodies, for bearing the fruit of good works, for the stablishing of Thy Holy Catholic Church, which Thou hast founded on the Rock of Faith, that the gates of hell may not prevail against it; delivering it from all heresy and scandals, and from those who work iniquity, keeping it till the fulness of the time. [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume VII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]Second Citation: Clements Epistle
And perhaps that which Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, " if we say it as Peter, not by flesh and blood revealing it unto us, but by the light from the Father in heaven shining in our heart, we too become as Peter, being pronounced blessed as he was, because that the grounds on which he was pronounced blessed apply also to us, by reason of the fact that flesh and blood have not revealed to us with regard to Jesus that He is Christ, the Son of the living God, but the Father in heaven, from the very heavens, that our citizenship may be in heaven, revealing to us the revelation which carries up to heaven those who take away every veil from the heart, and receive "the spirit of the wisdom and revelation" of God. And if we too have said like Peter, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God," not as if flesh and blood had revealed it unto us, but by light from the Father in heaven having shone in our heart, we become a Peter, and to us there might be said by the Word, "Thou art Peter," etc. For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, add the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.11. The Promise Given to Peter Not Restricted to Him, But Applicable to All Disciples Like Him.But if you suppose that upon that one Peter only the whole church is built by God, what would you say about John the son of thunder or each one of the Apostles? Shall we otherwise dare to say, that against Peter in particular the gates of Hades shall not prevail, but that they shall prevail against the other Apostles and the perfect? Does not the saying previously made, "The gates of Hades shall not prevail against it," hold in regard to all and in the case of each of them? And also the saying, "Upon this rock I will build My church"? Are the keys of the kingdom of heaven given by the Lord to Peter only, and will no other of the blessed receive them? But if this promise, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven," be common to the others, how shall not all the things previously spoken of, and the things which are subjoined as having been addressed to Peter, be common to them? For in this place these words seem to be addressed as to Peter only, "Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven," etc; but in the Gospel of John the Saviour having given the Holy Spirit unto the disciples by breathing upon them said, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit," etc. Many then will say to the Saviour, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God; "but not all who say this will say it to Him, as not at all having learned it by the revelation of flesh and blood but by the Father in heaven Himself taking away the veil that lay upon their heart, in order that after this "with unveiled face reflecting as a mirror the glory of the Lord" they may speak through the Spirit of God saying concerning Him, "Lord Jesus," and to Him, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." And if any one says this to Him, not by flesh and blood revealing it unto Him but through the Father in heaven, he will obtain the things that were spoken according to the letter of the Gospel to that Peter, but, as the spirit of the Gospel teaches, to every one who becomes such as that Peter was. For all bear the surname of "rock" who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught.But these bear the surname of the rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters. And taking occasion from these things you will say that the righteous bear the surname of Christ who is Righteousness, and the wise of Christ who is Wisdom. And so in regard to all His other names, you will apply them by way of surname to the saints; and to all such the saying of the Saviour might be spoken, "Thou art Peter," etc., down to the words, "prevail against it."[Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume X, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
| QUESTION: Does St. Clement confirm or deny that Peter is the Rock upon which the Church is built? | He Confirms Peter as Rock | He Denies Peter as Rock |
| QUESTION: How many denials of Peter as the Rock does it take to prove that the Fathers are not in "Unanimous Consent" about it? |
Your Answer? | |
| QUESTION: How can Rome teach that Peter the man was the ROCK when so many of her own honored Fathers of the Church deny it? | Your Answer? | |
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"Let us hear the words of the great Peter, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Let us hear the Lord Christ confirming this confession, for "On this rock," He says, "I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." Wherefore too the wise Paul, most excellent master builder of the churches, fixed no other foundation than this. "I," he says, "as a wise master builder have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." How then can they think of any other foundation, when they are bidden not to fix a foundation, but to build on that which is laid? The divine writer recognises Christ as the foundation," [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume III, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
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(Post-Nicene Fathers, Volume IX, Book VI; St. Hilary of Poiters)
"What then is this truth, which the Father now reveals to Peter, which receives the praise of a blessed confession? It cannot have been that the names of 'Father' and 'Son' were novel to him; he had heard them often. Yet he speaks words which the tongue of man had never framed before:--Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. For though Christ, while dwelling in the body, had avowed Himself to be the Son of God, yet now for the first time the Apostle's faith had recognised in Him the presence of the Divine nature. Peter is praised not merely for his tribute of adoration, but for his recognition of the mysterious truth; for confessing not Christ only, but Christ the Son of God. It would clearly have sufficed for a payment of reverence, had he said, Thou art the Christ, and nothing more. But it would have been a hollow confession, had Peter only hailed Him as Christ, without confessing Him the Son of God. And so his words Thou art declare that what is asserted of Him is strictly and exactly true to His nature. Next, the Father's utterance, This is My Son, had revealed to Peter that he must confess Thou art the Son of God, for in the words This is, God the Revealer points Him out, and the response, Thou art, is the believer's welcome to the truth. And this is the rock of confession whereon the Church is built. But the perceptive faculties of flesh and blood cannot attain to the recognition and confession of this truth. It is a mystery, Divinely revealed, that Christ must be not only named, but believed, the Son of God. Was it only the Divine name; was it not rather the Divine nature that was revealed to Peter? If it were the name, he had heard it often from the Lord, proclaiming Himself the Son of God. What honour, then, did he deserve for announcing the name? No; it was not the name; it was the nature, for the name had been repeatedly proclaimed.
37. This faith it is which is the foundation of the Church; through this faith the gates of hell cannot prevail against her. This is the faith which has the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever this faith shall have loosed or bound on earth shall be loosed or bound in heaven. This faith is the Father's gift by revelation; even the knowledge that we must not imagine a false Christ, a creature made out of nothing, but must confess Him the Son of God, truly possessed of the Divine nature. What blasphemous madness and pitiful folly is it, that will not heed the venerable age and faith of that blessed martyr. . . The very reason why he [Peter] is blessed is that he confessed the Son of God. This is the Father's revelation, this the foundation of the Church, this the assurance of her permanence. Hence has she the keys of the kingdom of heaven, hence judgment in heaven and judgment on earth. Through revelation Peter learnt the mystery hidden from the beginning of the world, proclaimed the faith, published the Divine nature, confessed the Son of God. He who would deny all this truth and confess Christ a creature, must first deny the apostleship of Peter, his faith, his blessedness, his episcopate, his martyrdom. And when he has done all this, he must learn that he has severed himself from Christ; for it was by confessing Him that Peter won these glories." [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume IX, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
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"Seeing, then, that you know the integrity of our faith from my plain utterance and profession, it is right that you should have no further scruple of doubt with respect to the Church of the blessed Peter, Prince of the apostles: but persist ye in the true faith, and make your life firm on the rock of the Church; that is on the confession of the blessed Peter, Prince of the apostles, lest all those tears of yours and all those good works should come to nothing, if they are found alien from the true faith" [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume XII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
SECOND CITATION (Nicene and post-Nicene Fathers, Volume XII, Book VII, Epistle XXXIII)
"Now I confidently say that whosoever calls himself, or desires to be called, Universal Priest, is in his elation the precursor of Antichrist, because he proudly puts himself above all others. Nor is it by dissimilar pride that he is led into error; for, as that perverse one wishes to appear as above all men, so whosoever this one is who covets being called sole priest, he extols himself above all other priests. But, since the Truth says, Every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled (Luke xiv. 11; xviii. 14), I know that every kind of elation is the sooner burst as it is the more inflated. Let then your Piety charge those who have fallen into an example of pride not to generate any offence by the appellation of a frivolous name. . . " [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume XII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
| QUESTION: What does Pope Gregory the Great say of anyone who demands to be called Universal Priest (sic., infallible pope)? | Your Answer? | |
| QUESTION: Is there any Scriptural record of Peter having claimed universal authority as an infallible pope? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Do the popes insist that they are the Universal Priests (sic., infallible, vicar of Christ, etc.)? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Are the popes worthy of Pope St. Gregory's condemnation as "precursor(s) of Antichrist?" | Yes | No |
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3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. . . . . To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth. [St. Ingatius, Ignatius to Mary at Neapolis Chapter IV; Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume I, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
Note that Iraeneus clearly states that Linus was first bishop of Rome - not Peter. Iraeneus then gives us the identity of the first twelve Bishops of Rome:
| QUESTION: Do you see then name of Peter in this Father's list of Rome's bishops? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Did you notice that, according to Iraeneus, the Apostle Paul, not Peter, appointed Linus as Bishop of Rome? | Yes | No |
| QUESTION: Who, according to Iraeneus was first Bishop of Rome? | Your answer? | |
"We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel is come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith." [Ante-Nicene Fathers, volume 1, Irenaeus, "Against Heresies" 3.1.1, P. 414]
This Father of the Church states that what was once spoken had by his time become written
Scripture, and that it, Scripture, must be the basis of our faith. After reading Irenaeus, I find no
appeal to any unspoken tradition on doctrines not found in Scripture.
"This seal have thou ever on they mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on its heads, and if the Lord grat, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings but by proof from the Holy Scriptures." [The Catechetical Lectures of St. Cyril, Lecture 4.17; A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church, Oxford, Parker, 1845]
Here is yet another Father of the Church who teaches the doctrine of Sola Scriptura - that Scripture alone must be the guideline for all doctrinal teaching. He even says that we are not to believe what he says unless we find proof first from the Scriptures.
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"And perhaps that which Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, " if we say it as Peter, not by flesh and blood revealing it unto us, but by the light from the Father in heaven shining in our heart, we too become as Peter, being pronounced blessed as he was, because that the grounds on which he was pronounced blessed apply also to us, by reason of the fact that flesh and blood have not revealed to us with regard to Jesus that He is Christ, the Son of the living God, but the Father in heaven, from the very heavens, that our citizenship may be in heaven, revealing to us the revelation which carries up to heaven those who take away every veil from the heart, and receive "the spirit of the wisdom and revelation" of God. And if we too have said like Peter, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God," not as if flesh and blood had revealed it unto us, but by light from the Father in heaven having shone in our heart, we become a Peter, and to us there might be said by the Word, "Thou art Peter," etc. For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, add the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God."
SECOND CITATION: [Origin: Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book XII, Para 11 Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series: Volume VI, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.)]
"Because thou hast said unto Me, 'Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God;' I also say unto thee, 'Thou art Peter.'" For before he was called Simon. Now this name of Peter was given him by the Lord, and that in a figure, that he should signify the Church. For seeing that Christ is the rock (Petra), Peter is the Christian people. For the rock (Petra) is the original name. Therefore Peter is so called from the rock; not the rock from Peter; as Christ is not called Christ from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. "Therefore," he saith, "Thou art Peter; and upon this Rock" which thou hast confessed, upon this Rock which thou hast acknowledged, saying, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church;" that is upon Myself, the Son of the living God, "will I build My Church." I will build thee upon Myself, not Myself upon thee.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." And this he heard from the Lord: "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." See what praises follow this faith. "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church." What meaneth, "Upon this rock I will build my Church"? Upon this faith; upon this that has been said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Upon this rock," saith He, "I will build my Church."
"As we allege, however, that he has fallen into confusion in consequence of false notions which he has imbibed, come and let us point them out to the best of our ability, and show that although Celsus considers it to be a Jewish custom to bow down to the heaven and the angels in it, such a practice is not at all Jewish, but is in violation of Judaism, as it also is to do obeisance to sun, moon, and stars, as well as images. You will find at least in the book of Jeremiah the words of God censuring by the mouth of the prophet the Jewish people for doing obeisance to such objects, and for sacrificing to the queen of heaven, and to all the host of heaven. The writings of the Christians, moreover, show, in censuring the sins committed among the Jews, that when God abandoned that people on account of certain sins, these sins (of idol-worship) also were committed by them." [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume IV, Book V, Chapter VIII: Origin against the Heresy of Celsus [Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.] 1997.]
How the confession of the blessed Peter is the faith of the whole Church.
But what are the other words which follow that saying of the Lord's, with which He commends Peter? "And I," said He, "say unto thee, that thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church." Do you see how the saying of Peter is the faith of the Church? [John Cassian; Volume XI, Book III, Chapter XIV. Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume XI, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
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This sentence both "loosed" those parts of the law which were abandoned, and "bound" those which were reserved. Hence the power of loosing and of binding committed to Peter had nothing to do with the capital sins of believers; and if the Lord had given him a precept that he must grant pardon to a brother sinning against him even "seventy times sevenfold," of course He would have commanded him to "bind"--that is, to "retain" [Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume IV, Tertullian, Chapter XXI (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.]
"The generality of men still fluctuate in their opinions about this, which are as erroneous as they are numerous. As for ourselves, if the Gentile philosophy, which deals methodically with all these points, were really adequate for a demonstration, it would certainly be superfluous to add a discussion on the soul to those speculations. But while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." [Gregory of Nyssa: Dogmatic Treatises "on the Soul and the Resurrection", P. 439. Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume V.]
Yet another Father of the Church who says that Scripture is the final authority, and that only those teachings/doctrines that are supported by Scripture are binding.
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How many white crows does it take to prove that not all crows are black? How many contradictions does it take to prove beyond any doubt that the Roman Catholic Church is caught in a bold, bald-faced lie when she claims support from 'the unanimous consent of the Fathers?!' Just one Father who contradicts one of Rome's doctrines is sufficient disprove Rome's claim. Here I have given you not one but a number of them.
How much evidence do you need to decide that it may be time to 'get out of her' as we are warned by the word of God:
"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." (2 Corinthians 6: 16-18)
"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her (the false religious system) fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities". (Revelations 18:3-5)
Why, oh why let yourself be bound by chains of fear, volumes of Cannon Law, dozens of un-Scriptural and anti-Scriptural dogmas, doctrines, decrees and Traditions, when you can have the freedom of Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, and Him alone? Why hope that blind obedience to a religious system will save you, when the real Gospel so clearly says otherwise? The choice is between bondage and freedom, fear and joy, false faith and true faith, men's traditions and God's Word. The choice is yours to make. The evidence is here before you. It is, as God said:
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and
death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"
(Deut. 30:19)
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UNDER CONSTRUCTION. More information to be added later. Please stop by again, and thank you for your patience!
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