Apocalypse Now
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Thrash kings Dave Mustaine of Megadeth, Scott Ian of Anthrax and Jeff Hanneman of Slayer meet to discuss the state of their explosive art. By Jeff Gilbert Guitar World August 1991.
Some of them rose eerily from the foul vapors that blanket the LA suburbs like a pestilent shroud. Others roared their way out of the grimy underbelly of New York City. They were metal gods, tornadoes wielding instruments of doom an distortion. They were the Titans of Thrash: Anthrax, Megadeth and Slayer. Children, children bow your heads in silence - and bang them in tribute.
This summer Anthrax, Megadeth and Slayer embarked on a landmark tour of national arenas. Billed immodestly as the "Clash Of The Titans", the series of shows gathered together unprecedented heavy metal riches: the turbulent speed of Megadeth, the urban street-fire of Anthrax and the satanic pleasantries of Slayer.
Along with Metallica, the three bands comprise the patriarchate, the creme de la creme of thrash. In honor of the Clash of Titans - and, it must be admitted, in dread fear - Guitar World summoned Megadeth's Dave Mustaine, Anthrax's Scott Ian, and Slayer's Jeff Hanneman to a round table of Titans. After many bitter protestations, the grim visage giants agreed to meet. Their words will, no doubt, echo across the generations.
GUITAR WORLD: Do you object to the use of the term "thrash" to describe your music?
DAVE MUSTAINE: Speaking for myself, I think we're a little deeper than just thrash.
SCOTT IAN: Yeah, we're all titans now. [laughter all around] A certain element of our music is thrash - but that doesn't tell the whole story. If it did, we wouldn't even have to play - we could just turn a speed drill on and record it. That would be the ultimate thrash record.
JEFF HANNEMAN: Also, there's a shit-load of thrash bands out there that mean nothing. I don't even know what thrash is anymore.
IAN: At the same time, you're not going to have nine different labels for this type of music. So we'd rather just be known as the rock band, Anthrax.
MUSTAINE: Or Anthrax, the hot-metal- fusion-punk-rockabilly-jazz-rap-thrash band. [laughs] I think that if you try and put one name on it, you might as well use the one you get paid by. The term "thrash" is very limiting.
CW: What distinguishes Megadeth, Anthrax and Slayer from other bands of the genre?
MUSTAINE: We're making money.
GW: Besides that.
MUSTAINE: We're playing and saying the things that we want to play and say. We're not trying to be cool because guitar magazines like the efficiency of how nimbly we fret and all that kind of crap. We play what turns us on. I think that what sets these three bands apart from the others is that none of us have ever compromised.
IAN: We haven't copied what came before us. A lot of the bands that emerged since we started haven't really changed anything we've done; all they've done is copy us. And that's a big problem. There are at least twenty bands out there right now who wouldn't even exist if not for Slayer.
HANNEMAN: Twenty? Is that all?
MUSTAINE: Okay, twenty-one.
GW: But why is that?
HANNEMAN: That's all they listen to, that's -. all they know. It's a case of not being able to write a song. It's like they have no self-worth. Don't they have enough pride in themselves to develop their own style of music?
MUSTAINE: It's a proven formula. When you rip someone else off, all you have to do is change the words a little bit.
HANNEMAN: There are a ton of Slayer babies.
MUSTAINE: [laughs] God forbid! A world of Slayer babies!
GW: Let's talk about the music. Are the hall- marks of thrash - the speed, the unusual time changes, the IAN: Elements of the idiot. You just write what you write, you know? No one in Anthrax thinks about it that much. When we write a song, it comes from the riffs that we come up with and think sound good. A riff is either meant to be played at a certain speed, or it isn't. It just comes out that way. We don't plan anything.
GW: What would you consider to be the worst trend in thrash metal right now?
HANNEMAN: Slayer babies.
IAN: There are so many bands out there who sound like that, and they sell a lot of records, but I just don't understand - it makes me sick. Of course, in any type of music, there are always clones. We've been on tour with bands who might as well have looked exactly like us. They might as well have been wearing goatees
"This is probably a conceited thing for me to say, but when you're as good as any one of us, you have the abilities to achieve the things you go for. There's a lot of brain power in each of these bands." - Dave Mustaine
MUSTAINE: Everybody is copying one particular band - and I think we all know who we're talking about. I listen to the radio and everybody sounds like this singer, everybody does the same chord chunk. It's cool to be safe and dance in somebody's footsteps in paint-by-numbers steps on the floor. Granted, Scott's band and my band play a lot of the same chord progressions, but a lot of bands rip that off exactly. And they rip off ..I'll call them "M." It blows me away. Why not just call your band, "Metallibabies?"
IAN: None of the three bands represented here sound like Metallica - or each other. I can't name four or five bands outside those four who don't sound like at least one of us. Sometimes we write a riff and think, "That sounds like Metallica." So we don't use it.
MUSTAINE: It's like those Bullet fags that sound just like David Lee Roth.
IAN: And Cinderella. You can listen to their records and literally pick out the riffs they took from Highway To Hell.
HANNEMAN: The cloning of singers is incredible too. If a voice is popular, then everybody's got to sound like that. Who sounds like Tom [Araya, Slayer singer/bassist]?
MUSTAINE: Satan.
HANNEMAN: Okay, but besides Satan?
MUSTAINE: It's like going to an orgy and taking your clothes off. You're being viewed by strangers in your nakedness. Some people are going to dig it, some people aren't. We know that no one can say shit with these three bands as far as originality is concerned. The three of us are always being compared, but that's like comparing apples and oranges.
GW: So, who do you think is the worst band in metal?
IAN: Metallica. [laughs]
MUSTAINE: I hate to point fingers, but Queensryche are fag yuppie metal now. It's the same way with Guns 'N Roses. I hate those mothers, though Appetite is a great album. Slash is undoubtedly one of the better blues-based guitarists on the rock scene.
GW: Do you feel locked into a certain style of music?
MUSTAINE: I personally don't. Our music really doesn't have a set formula. I'm not saying this to blow smoke up your ass, Scott, but I was listening to the radio a few months ago and heard the Joe Jackson song, "Time." I thought, "That would be a great song to rip off! Listen to how good Joe Jackson's guitars are!" And the guy on the radio says, "And that was the new one from Anthrax... " I went [mimics sound of screeching breaks]. I almost rear-ended a bus! [laughs]
GW: Anthrax's version is pretty remarkable...
IAN: It was an easy song for us to do, since a lot of ear1y Joe Jackson had an English punk attitude. Our version is basically the same song, but with different guitar sounds.
MUSTAINE: See what I'm getting at'? This is probably a conceited thing for me to say, but when you're as good as any one of us, you have the abilities to achieve the things you go for. There's a lot of brain power in each of these bands, even if people think that Slayer is Satanic and Megadeth's a drug band and Anthrax is a cattle disease band. People are too narrow-minded to look beneath the face value of a band's name. Or else they categorize us like a lot of industry dickheads do, because they don't know how to explain the band.
GW: Slayer must get typecast more than any of you.
HANNEMAN: A lot of people have said that we've cornered ourselves and 1ocked ourselves in. Well, if anybody in the band has the key, it's me - and I don't give a shit. If we come up with something that's totally coming from left field and I like it, I'll push for it. As long as I like it, that's all that matters.
GW: Like your cover version of "In-A- Gadda-Da-Vida?" Why didn't you keep the drum solo?
HANNEMAN: [laughs] Because it was boring!
MUSTAINE: Doesn't Dave [Lombardo, Slayer's drummer] do a drum solo in every song? [laughs] I heard "Seasons In The Abyss" on the radio the other day and I was really impressed. I think that Slayer's new album has some of the best guitar playing I've ever heard from them. I can say that with authority because I really know Kerry [King, Slayer's other guitar player] - he used to jam with me a long, long time ago. He learns really fast. I always thought Jeff was a better soloist than Kerry, but now I really can't tell the difference because both guitar players are really good.
GW: Some people believe the thrash genre is stagnant - that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
IAN: It doesn't have to go anywhere. I really don't give a shit what happens to the genre, it doesn't mean anything to me. I just worry about Anthrax - what we're going to do and what's going to happen on our next record -.' and tour.
GW: Do you think that the glut of thrash metal bands on the market could ultimately affect your bands?
HANNEMAN: It s going to burn out the music.
MUSTAINE: This scene is very much dictated by what those who are in the vanguard do. It's almost like the whole scene has to wait until we show them what's okay to do on their next records.
GW: So who are the new children of thrash?
MUSTAINE: I don't have any children that I know of. [laughs]
GW: What about Testament?
MUSTAINE: Who? You mean the guys who are ripping off our drum riser and stage moves, and copying all of Metallica's sounds, and singing like James [Hetfield]?
IAN: And with dance steps laid out on the stage on how to have stage presence. But we didn't mention the name. You did.
MUSTAINE: This magazine called them the Lennon and McCartney of Thrash. but aren't they more like Simon and Garfunkel?
IAN: All I've got to say is: where would they be without these three bands and Metallica? I just find Testament hard to even take seriously. Whatever they do, I suppose they do it well, but it just isn't them. Every time you hear them on the radio, you think Metallica.
HANNEMAN: I heard them the other day and I could have sworn it was Metallica.
GW: Technological advancements have made it easier to emulate particular sounds - such as the Metallica sound. Do you think, in some ways, that's cutback on creativity?
IAN: Yes and no. I'm not a lead guitar player, so for me it's always been as simple as possible; I got this sound and I stuck with it. But Danny [Spitz, Anthrax's lead guitarist] is always looking for different gear. And if something can help you find a certain sound, to me, that's creative. Danny's got racks that look like airplane cockpits; everything you can possibly imagine is in there. I just look at it, shake my head and laugh.
GW: From a guitar standpoint, what are some of the problems involved with undertaking a tour the size of "Clash Of The Titans"?
HANNEMAN: There isn't much to say; all the levels are turned up and we play. What more do you want?
GW: With thrash metal getting tons of mainstream acceptance - meaning Grammy nominations, big money tours, TV show appearances - do you think the genre is in danger of becoming too respectable?
MUSTAINE: I don't really think respect is something that we're really looking to achieve. As soon as we get approval, we're going to screw it right back up by doing something else to piss you off. That's the nature of the beast. We like to keep people on their toes. We get respect by doing our jobs and not conforming. Yeah, it was kind of depressing to have to alter the length of "Hangar 18" to get on Arsenio Hall's show, but I don't think that any of these three bands have made any major, obvious compromises.
IAN: We thought it was really cool to get nominated for a Grammy. I was interviewed by press I'd never spoken with, like USA Today. It was a joke; big deal! It was cool to get nominated, but that's the extent of it.
MUSTAINE: I think it was ludicrous that they gave Metallica a Grammy for a cover song [Queen's "Stone Cold Crazy "], that took maybe eight hours to record. There's no bass guitar and hardly any bass drum; the rendition of the song is awful. I think it was a sympathy award, because Metallica didn't get the award the year before when it was given to Jethro Tull.
IAN: Look out for our cover of "Free Bird."
GW: Is there any sort of competitiveness among you guys? Do you try to blow each other off the stage every night?
IAN: We never worry about who we play with.
HANNEMAN: I never think about blowing someone off the stage. When I'rn up there, I'm having fun. When we're on stage, it's not a competition. You may think it in the back of your mind, offstage...
MUSTAINE: There is competition among us, But we put more pressure on ourselves to a good show.
IAN: It doesn't matter, though; that's the whole point of this tour. Never before have fans of any one or all three of these bands had the chance to see this kind of bill before, All three of these bands could have easily gone out and toured individually this summer. But that's pot why we're there; Anthrax is not out there to win over the Slayer and Megadeth crowds.
MUSTAINE: I don't know who we're trying to kid here. Anyone who likes one of us probably has every album by all three bands.
GW: Can we get each of you to assess the others' bands?
MUSTAINE: I'll tell you what my agent said about Slayer: they're the best worst band, and there's nobody better live - which is definitely true. Anthrax has given New York a lot of respectability. The East Coast has no better band. Also, Anthrax have the only guys I know who can get away with tuning their guitars down without sounding like shit. Same with King's X. Everyone else who tries it spends his entire life with an open E and A string. There's more to life than playing two strings.
HANNEMAN: What about White Lion? [laughs all around]
IAN: I just saw Megadeth play on the Judas Priest tour and I really enjoyed it. I thought the crowd was kind of dead, though. But some of the best shows I've ever been to are Megadeth shows.
HANNEMAN: I've never seen Anthrax, but I've seen Megadeth. And-I like Megadeth.
GW: Where do you see yourselves ten years - from now?
MUSTAINE: Ten years ago, when I recorded "Hit The Lights" for Metal Massacre, I never imagined that it would carry on this far. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would be sitting here with Slayer and Anthrax talking about touring arenas, let alone spearheading a movement and giving credibility to the youth of America. Ten years from now, if we'll still have the people's acceptance - if they still believe in us nothing else matters.
IAN: In ten years, hopefully, I'll still be making records and still have something to say. Ten years used to seem like a long time, but it doesn't anymore. You can look at ten years as five albums.
MUSTAINE: That's scary. [laughs]
GW: So it doesn't matter if you end up in Bud E. Luvbomb and Satan's Lounge band?
IAN: That's always a possibility. [laughs] Depends on what lounges we play.
HANNEMAN: Since the beginning, I always had the feeling we were going to make it. Nevertheless, it is very surprising that we actually did make it this far. But I'm not going to worry about ten years from now. I'm just going to have fun and ride it out.
