from the New York Times

Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson had dinner with their wives and a third couple when the two were playing in the Bob Hope Classic golf tournament in Southern California two years ago. Clemens remembers how he ignored the etiquette of seating men and women alternately and maneuvered to sit next to Johnson.

Acting more like an antsy rookie than an eventual Hall of Famer, Clemens parked himself beside Johnson so they could discuss fastballs and futures, memories and milestones, and how sacrifices had led to their incredible, continuing success.

Never mind a power lunch. This was a power dinner, a meal as distinct as any shared by two pitchers in baseball history. Why? Because perhaps no two pitchers have continued to perform as well as Clemens and Johnson have at an age when most players are long gone from the game.

There have been pitchers with longer careers, pitchers who logged terrific seasons as they were graying, and pitchers who mirrored colleagues in defying age in the same era. From Walter Johnson to Lefty Grove to Warren Spahn to Tom Seaver to Nolan Ryan, there have been superb pitchers who just kept going and going.

But Johnson, who is 41 and will begin his first season with the Yankees by pitching tonight against the Red Sox at Yankee Stadium, and Clemens, 42, the former Yankee now pitching for the Houston Astros, are rare in still uncorking heat and still dominating as power pitchers deep into their careers. Has there ever been a twosome doing it this well for this long?

"I think Clemens will retire as the greatest who ever lived, given the years that he pitched in," said the Red Sox' Curt Schilling, an almost as oldie and not quite as goodie.

"I think R. J.'s the best left-hander, the best power pitcher, that ever lived," Schilling said of Johnson. "Having those two guys at the same time? That's pretty awesome."

Schilling, 38, is another pitcher who has not declined as his career has lengthened. He has won 21 or more games in three of the last four seasons, and provides further evidence that, these days, a remarkable percentage of the game's elite pitchers are thriving in their late 30's or early 40's and not inclined to let go of the ball.

And why should they? Clemens and Johnson, in particular, are lording over the top of Mount Mound, two cranky, creaky-jointed and dedicated perfectionists who think they can prepare enough and push hard enough to be the best in baseball. Burn my birth certificate, they are essentially saying, and let me pitch.

Each said he had been blessed with immense talent. But they also said that nurturing it, caring for it and being motivated to excel had helped keep them competitive against some hitters who were infants when Clemens and Johnson first made it to the major leagues. Clemens is in his 22nd season, Johnson his 18th.

"They're pitching like they're 31," said Seaver, the Hall of Famer who pitched until he was nearly 42. "Physically, it's phenomenal."

A Dozen Cy Youngs

Clemens, a proud and burly Texan who has twice abandoned retirement plans, has won 7 Cy Young Awards and 328 games, with 4,317 career strikeouts. Johnson, a 6-foot-10 pogo stick with the nearly triple-digit miles-an-hour fastball, is slightly behind in every category; he has five Cy Youngs, 246 victories and 4,161 strikeouts.

"Why should what age we are say we can't do those things anymore?" Johnson said. "The bottom line is to win. If you're winning and you're 45 years old, what does it matter if you're winning or someone who's 25 is winning?"

Clemens said: "Once I signed to come back, they don't care about my age. They want me to win."

Just win, old man. For Clemens and Johnson, being older has not been as burdensome as some people might suppose.

And they have company.

Greg Maddux, who has won 305 games and whose pinpoint fastballs are at least 10 miles an hour slower than Johnson's, will be 39 this month. Schilling, the bloody-socked postseason star, is on overdrive, having earned 40 percent of his 184 victories in the last four seasons.

David Wells, whose left arm is as loose as his jeans are tight, has joined the Red Sox and is scheduled to pitch for his 213th career victory against the Yankees tonight. Wells will turn 42 in May. Tom Glavine, 39, has 262 victories, although he is 20-28 since becoming a Met in December 2002. Kevin Brown of the Yankees, who is 40, has won 207 games.

John Smoltz of the Atlanta Braves, who has moved back to the starting rotation after 154 saves, is 37. In this crowd, the new Met Pedro Martínez, whose career record is 182-76, looks like a baby at 33.

Maddux is the one who most belongs in a comparison to Clemens and Johnson. But because he has slipped to a 3.99 earned run average over the last two seasons and is not a power pitcher, he is in a slightly different category these days. Or is he?

The ultraconfident Schilling included Maddux with Clemens and Johnson in the orchestra section and stuffed himself in the balcony.

"I don't look at us as the same kind of players, because I think those guys are Hall of Famers," Schilling said. "I think one thing we all have in common is we're all looking for an edge. Not just on the mound, but off it as well."

For older pitchers, that search never ends. Dr. Gene Coleman, who has been the strength and conditioning coach for the Astros for 27 years, has worked with Ryan, Clemens and Johnson; he compared them to long-distance runners, saying the hard throwers work hard to understand their bodies.

Coleman said Clemens kept meticulous notes about "every twinge" he had ever had. When Clemens's calf was sore last year, Coleman quizzed him on it to determine the depth of the injury. Clemens studied his notes from a few years earlier and told Coleman that he had experienced the same soreness and that it would not be a hindrance. It was not.

Because Johnson has had back surgery, Coleman said, he patterns a lot of his extensive workouts around strengthening his back. The detail-oriented Johnson wears a liquid-filled titanium corset for his back and also has a lubricant injected into his surgically repaired right knee, which has almost no cartilage, during the season. "You should be extremely impressed by them," Coleman said. "When I got in the game, guys at their age had been retired for 10 years."

One Word Fits All

After Jorge Posada of the Yankees caught Johnson this spring, he gushed about how much fun it had been and later compared Johnson to Clemens. Posada used the same word to describe the two: presence. It took Posada a few seconds to offer the description, and he did not need to add a second word.

Posada said Clemens would never finish a workout that involved other pitchers unless he threw the last pitch. Even if Clemens was throwing next to an undistinguished minor leaguer, Posada said he would stay on the mound as long as it took to be the last arm slinging.

"He's going to be there longer and he's going to tell you he's better than you without saying anything," Posada said.

Sometimes a pitcher like Johnson might just say it.

"I've been doing this since I was 7, and I think I'm one of the best at it, because I understand what it takes to do it," Johnson said.

Seaver said the evolution of 40-somethings like Johnson and Clemens could be traced in part to advances in medicine, training and nutrition. Although Seaver used to work out five times a week in the off-season, he worked out by himself in his basement. Now personal trainers are as commonplace as cellphones, and a pitcher can use a machine designed solely to strengthen his rotator cuff.

Still, no matter how much Johnson, Clemens, Schilling or others toil in the off-season, injuries can still sabotage it all. Clemens has been hampered by a strained hamstring this spring; Johnson was slowed by a calf injury; and Schilling will not start until mid-April because he is recuperating from ankle surgery.

"Forty-one," Seaver said, "is still 41."

When one general manager was asked why so many pitchers were lasting longer, he answered with one word: steroids. The executive said he was joking, but he still did not want to be identified in connection with the remark.

Because Clemens has continued to be so overpowering late in his career, there have been whispers about steroid use. In Jose Canseco's book "Juiced," he said he had never seen Clemens use steroids or heard him admit to using them. But Canseco said Clemens had exhibited classic signs of steroid use. Clemens has consistently denied using performance-enhancing drugs. Johnson, with his long, lean physique, has not been linked with steroids.

Pushing Each Other

Remember Clemens's one-tenth of a percent? Clemens said he was 99.9 percent certain that he would retire after the 2003 season with the Yankees. But Johnson had apparently helped keep that tiny possibility alive in Clemens's head.

Clemens said: "I told him this would be it once I got to 300 and how important it was, because they were saying there wouldn't be many more of us to do it. He said, 'Why?' He wanted to know why I would retire."

Clemens came back in 2004 and decided to return again this season.

Johnson needs to average 18 victories in his next three seasons to reach 300, a goal he and Clemens discussed two years ago. Clemens said Johnson, who did not win his 200th game until he was 38, had struck him as someone who wanted to continue chasing magical numbers while not worrying about other numbers - like the count for the candles on his birthday cakes.

"The expectations put on you, you either shy away from them or you take them for what they are and understand them and try to maximize your ability," Johnson said. "Even though we're getting older, it doesn't mean we can't do the things we've been doing all along."

Johnson signed a two-year contract extension with the Yankees in January, and he will be 44 at the end of the 2007 season. Clemens playfully wondered if that might be time for another extension.

"I think," Clemens said, "Randy is going to keep pitching forever."

What about Clemens?

"Me?" he said, with a smile befitting someone who feels more like 22 than 42. "I've tried to retire for two years, and it's not working."