Mood:
surprisedTopic: Direct Testimonies
Wednesday, 20 April 2005
As court resumed, Mr. Zonen said ?Where we left off, you were talking about the telephone call from Mr. Jackson?, but was asked by the bailiff to turn on the microphone. Mr. Zonen repeated his statement and added that he would now ask Janet Arvizo a couple of questions.
He asked if Ms. Arvizo had received a phone call from any member of the media or the press, prior to the phone call from Mr. Jackson in the early part of February, which she had. She was asked whether or not she had been personally contacted, and replied that what happened was ?reporters -- they said they were two reporters. Who knows? Okay. They had gone to my mom's house. My mom only speaks -- my mom only speaks Spanish. That's it. These two men, one of them was the speaker, kept telling my mom, "Gavin, cancer," and speaking in English. And the only two things that stood out in my mom, even though she knows only Spanish, like certain words mean something to her. And so they said, "Gavin, cancer; Gavin, cancer," and that stood out. So my mom called me immediately, you know, ?What?s wrong with Gavin?" And she -- I go, "No, nothing's wrong, Mom. They're at school." And she goes, "Well, there's two men here telling me about Gavin and cancer." And so she didn't know, so I thought maybe some -- some medical -- some ?? where she was stopped by Mr. Zonen.
Mr. Zonen tried to clarify how long prior to the phone call from Mr. Jackson this conversation happened, but Ms. Arvizo didn?t understand, and when we tried to make the witness understand, she replied ?Okay. They were still there while my mom was on the phone.? Mr. Zonen said he knew, and explained he wanted to know whether or not the conversation with Mr. Jackson was on the same day or not, which Ms. Arvizo confirmed, and continued that ?it was within hours that Evvy contacted me next?.
The mentioned reporters were the only members of the press who had contacted the family before the phone call from Mr. Jackson, but others had contacted them after the trip to Miami.
Janet Arvizo explained she had spoken to the member of the media who had called her mother. ?Well, my mom passed me the phone, and I spoke to him. And he says, "We just happened to see your son in England." And I go, "No, if my" -- "I just dropped off my son at school. And if he's in England, he's in big trouble," you know. And so -- and he was very vague. And I said, "You scared my mom. She only speaks Spanish, so please don't continue talking to her."?
When asked if she had an interview with either of the two people, Mr. Mesereau objected, stating that the witness had not completed her response, and Mr. Melville suggested Mr. Zone asked another question.
Mr. Zonen asked if Ms. Arvizo had an actual conversation with either of the two people over the telephone, and she replied that she had spoken to one them, and that he had identified himself as a reporter from England who had just flown in, and who would have to fly out immediately. He named himself either Garner or Gardner, but he had not stated which publication he worked for.
He didn?t say he wanted an interview with Ms. Arvizo, but wanted to meet with her, which she had refused, ?because he was vague? and she told him that he was ?scaring my mom. And that's not my house, that's my mom's house. I live in Los Angeles?
When asked which telephone the call was from, she replied it was from her mom?s, but that she wasn?t there. ?. I'm over here in Los Angeles. My mom called me because she was scared, because these two guys were saying Gavin -- and a whole conversation. But the only thing that jumped out in my mom was "Gavin" and "cancer.?
Mr. Zonen asked where she made a return phone call to the reporter, but she answered that ?there was no call back?, and they didn?t call her mother back either. She continued, ?My mom was courteous and polite, you know. Handed her the phone, because I wanted to know what the nature of their visit, why they were saying "Gavin, cancer??. Mr. Zonen asked if they were at her mother?s place in person, which she confirmed.
Ms. Arvizo said she did not discuss Michael Jackson in the conversation with the reporters, and they had not told her that they wanted to talk about Michael Jackson,
Mr. Mesereau objected, saying it was leading, which was overruled.
Ms. Arvizo explained the conversation with the reporters had only lasted just minutes, and said that it had taken about the same time, as it had taken her to explain the information she had given Mr. Zonen, and that it was the only conversation she had ever had with either reporter.
When asked whether or not Jay Jackson had told her that he had had conversations with reporters, she answered that she knows now, per this investigation, and added that she knows a lot of things now, because of the investigation.
Mr. Zonen said ?Listen to the question, okay? On that day prior to your going to Florida, did Jay Jackson tell you that he had conversations with reporters?? which she denied, and also denied having had any conversation with Jay Jackson about any reporters, nor did any other reporter try to contact her prior to going to Florida.
During questioning about the conversation with the reporter, Garner or Gardner, Mr. Zonen established that the reporter had not mentioned anything about a documentary, and the other thing he had said about Ms. Arvizo?s having been on television, was that he ?had said, ?I have just seen Gavin in England?? but Ms. Arvizo was not certain what that meant.
Turning to the conversation Ms. Arvizo had with Mr. Jackson, Mr. Zonen asked if Mr. Jackson had said anything about her children being on television, which he had not, but she had not asked him either. Mr. Jackson did not offer any information about the children being on television, and never mentioned the name of the documentary her children had been a part of, ?Living with Michael Jackson?
The only thing he said spoken of was ?Bashir? and Ms. Arvizo said she did not ask Mr. Jackson who Bashir was, or what it was about, until Miami, where she ?found out more things?.
Mr. Zonen questioned her about the trip to Miami, and she explained she flew with Chris Tucker and the children. Mr. Zonen asked if she knew how Mr. Tucker had become involved, and Ms. Arvizo replied that it was through Evvy. Evvy had contacted him but she ?didn't know about this until I got to the sidewalk, which Gary Hearn had meet us, and he says, "Guys, there's a change of plans," and that was it?
The family was taken to Chris Tucker?s house to wait for Davellin, and then flew on a private jet straight to Miami. Ms. Arvizo did not know they would go on a private jet until Mr. Hearn told her.
In Miami the family was taken to a hotel called ?The Turnberry? which Ms. Arvizo described as a Las Vegas kind of hotel, without the slot machines, though. They did not meet up with Mr. Jackson when they first got there, but they ?got right there until ? you know that time between -- before morning time where it's really, really dark? That's the time we arrived. So we went straight to -- dropped off Chris in his room, and then we went to our room. And our room was right underneath his room. And Chris, they had set him up in a completely different building, away from me and the kids?
Ms. Arvizo described their accommodations as being two rooms connected by a door which could be locked, however it was unlocked it?
In the daytime the family met up with Mr. Jackson and Ms. Arvizo were finally able to have a conversation with Mr. Jackson, after she had not talked to anyone about the danger Mr. Jackson had spoken about, during the course of the trip. The only ones present at the conversation were Ms. Arvizo, her children, and Mr. Jackson.
She claimed that Mr. Jackson had spoken to them in a very normal, very male voice, and told them how they should trust him because he was a father figure to the children. That he said he would protect the family, and that he was going to ?to do everything that Ronald and Dieter tell him, because this is what's going to fix the problem. He even had told me that he has read ? he knows what to do in this situation, because he's read hundreds of books on psychology, and he knows -- he knows what to do in these kinds of things, of what kind of frame of mind that these people that were threatening my children are. He had -- he had cried. I just thought, you know, what a nice guy, you know?
The conversation took about 45 minutes, but Ms. Arvizo had not asked Mr. Jackson about the nature of the threats towards her children, because she was like ?a sponge, believing him, trusting him?. The only thing Mr. Jackson had told her of the threats was that it was because of the Bashir thing. He did not offer any explanation of who had made the treats, and neither spoke of whether or not the police were being contacted, nor did he ask anything of the family during the conversation.
Ms. Arvizo said they were to be in Miami to do a press conference, but Mr. Jackson did not talk to her about a press conference.
Mr. Zonen asked the witness about Dieter and Ronald, whether or not Ms. Arvizo knew them prior to that day, which she did not, and whether she met them that day, which she confirmed.
Mr. Zonen asked if he could approach the witness, which he was granted, and showed Ms. Arvizo two exhibits, No 17 and No 18. He asked her to look at No 17, and asked Ms. Arvizo to identify who was in the picture. ?That?s Dieter? she replied, but she had not known his last name prior to the investigation, but had now learned it was ?Weisner?. Mr. Zonen asked the witness to identify the person in exhibit No. 18, and she identified him as Ronald Konitzer. Ms. Arvizo called the two ?those Germans?.
She knew they were German because they had told her, and had spoken amongst themselves in German.
Returning to the meeting with Mr. Jackson, Mr. Zonen asked if there was anything else that Mr. Jackson had told her, and she replied he had said, ?that he loves us; that he cares about us; that we're family; that we were in the back of the line, now we're in the front of the line, and because he's going to take care of us, protect us from these killers. Let me see. What else? That he's -- that he's not just a father figure to Gavin, to Star and to Davellin. Let me see. What else? And he's family to me and he's family to the kids. Let me see. What else??
Mr. Zonen continued, ?Do you know if Mr. Jackson had ever had ?? to which Mr. Mesereau objected, stating the witness had not completed her answer. Judge Melville replied, ?Go ahead and ask your next question?.
Mr. Zonen repeated, ?Do you know if Mr. Jackson had ever had such a similar conversation with your children?? which she stated that he had at the initial visit in August 2000. ?all his people, for example, Evvy was the No. 1 one that was pointing out that, "I want you to see Michael as like family, all" - "We see him and view him only as a father figure, "so ?? but Mr. Zonen asked her again whether or not Mr. Jackson himself had said anything to the children about being family.
Ms. Arvizo confirmed that Mr. Jackson had ?in a conversation with Gavin over the phone, that's when Gavin had told me one of the conversations?.
Jumping back to the meeting with Mr. Jackson in Miami, Mr. Zonen asked what specifically Mr. Jackson had told her to do with Mr. Weisner and Mr. Konitzer, and she replied ?To listen and do everything they say, because they're going to fix the problem?.
Afterwards she spoke to both Mr. Weisner and Mr. Konitzer at the same time in Miami, in Mr. Jackson?s room, and she confirmed that Mr. Jackson was present at her conversation. Mr. Jackson began the conversation, by introducing Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, and she continued ?And that's the point where he had taken off the jacket and handed -- and physically placed it on Gavin?.
Mr. Zonen tried to pinpoint when the conversation had taken place, and Ms. Arvizo explained it was the morning after their arrival in Miami. Returning to Ms. Arvizo?s comment about Mr. Jackson placing a jacket on Gavin, he asked ?What did he do with the jacket?? Ms Arvizo explained Mr. Jackson had taken his Jacket off, put it on Gavin, and had told Gavin not to take it off.
Mr. Zonen then asked whether Star and Davellin were there as well, which M. Arvizo confirmed, but said that Mr. Weisner and Mr. Konitzer had not been anywhere in sight in the hotel room, during the initial meeting with Mr. Jackson, and nor were they present when Mr. Jackson handed Gavin the jacket.
Returning to the conversation with Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, Mr. Zonen asked if Ms. Arvizo could tell him what Mr. Konitzer said during the course of the conversation. Mr. Mesereau objected, claiming hearsay, but Melville responded, ?All right. I'm allowing this particular testimony for purposes limited to possible conspirator statements. You may only consider it for those purposes in accordance with my earlier instructions.?
Mr. Zonen again asked Ms. Arvizo to tell him what Mr. Konitzer had spoken about, and she explained, ?in this conversation, all they wanted to know was basically of -- of who I am, where I lived, my brothers, my mother. Just basically information from me and the kids. That's all?.
She had given them the requested information, and said that neither Mr. Konitzer nor Mr. Weisner gave her any directions during that conversation. Nor did either of them talk to her about a danger the children were experiencing. Mr. Zonen started to ask whether or not Mr. Jackson was present during the entire conversation, but Ms. Arvizo broke him off, and confirmed Mr. Jackson?s presence. Mr. Zonen instructed the witness to please wait till the question had been asked in it?s entirety before asking.
He then moved on to ask, if Mr. Jackson had offered any information during the conversation that Ms. Arvizo had not spoken of till then which she denied.
Ms. Arvizo explained that they were in Miami for two nights, one of which was the night of the broadcast of ?Living with Michael Jackson?, but said that neither she nor the children were allowed to visit the documentary.
Returning to the first day in Miami, Mr. Zonen asked if Ms. Arvizo had any subsequent conversation with either Mr. Konitzer or Mr. Weisner, which she denied, and when asked about the following day, she replied, ?Just almost -- almost the whole day that's when we had stayed in Michael's room?.
Ms. Arvizo said Mr. Jackson was in his room, with the family, during that day, and that he was there the entire time. Ms. Arvizo never left the hotel, though she had never been to Miami before. She did not want to go see the city, she said, but when Mr. Zonen asked her whether she expressed any desire to leave the hotel, Mr. Mesereau objected, stating the question was leading, but before Melville had a chance to rule, Ms. Arvizo said ?No. I just wanted to focus there ?? but was interrupted by Melville, who asked her to wait for his ruling, then overruled the objected, and instructed the witness to answer.
Ms. Arvizo then repeated that she did not leave the hotel during that time, but did leave her room, in favor of Mr. Jackson?s room. She also left her room to get breakfast, but when she got there, Chris and the children were already done, and she continued, ?So all I had was, I think -- please don't quote me on this -- I know a lemonade and I think a some cheese that they had, like samples?
Besides that, Ms. Arvizo said she did not go to a restaurant, nor did she go anywhere else besides her room or Mr. Jackson?s room during the stay.
Mr. Zonen asked if she went to a spa, which she denied, and he continued to ask if any other members of her family did, which she confirmed, but Mr. Mesereau objected, calling the question leading.
Again the witness spoke before Judge Melville had a chance to rule, and after overruling the objection, he instructed her again to ?to slow down when I'm ruling?.
Mr. Zonen asked which other family members went to a spa, and she replied that Mr. Tucker took the three children to the spa. She did not go along because she was concerned about when they would ?take care of my kids from being killed??
On this second day, still nobody spoke to Ms. Arvizo of a press conference, but she spoke to Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner. Mr. Konitzer wanted her to sign a blank piece of paper, and refused to explain why she should sign it, and she quoted Mr. Konitzer as saying that they were running out of time, and ?You want your kids to be killed.?, and Ms. Arvizo had signed the blank piece of paper.
Mr. Weisner asked her to sign a pre-written paragraph, plus asked her to write some things in her writing, and sign underneath it.
Mr. Zonen asked for permission to approach the witness, which was granted, and he showed her exhibit No 807, and asked her if she recognized the paper, but she only recognized her signature. She claimed she had not signed it, and explained she had never signed her name twice on the same piece of paper.
Mr. Zonen asked if any of the handwriting was hers, and she said that the hand printed name and signature was her handwriting, and also a second signature was hers, but she did not have any recollection of having signed the document twice, but claimed she had signed two different papers.
Mr. Zonen asked to have the piece of paper admitted into evidence, which was permitted without objection from Mr. Mesereau.
The prosecutor read the top part out loud, after having it published. ?I confirm that Theodore Goddard is authorized by me to file this complaint on behalf of my son, Gavin Arvizo.? And continued, ?The date is Miami, February 7th, 2003. Do you believe that you were in Miami on February 7th?? which Ms. Arvizo confirmed.
However, she did not know who Theodore Goddard was, and was never told who it was, nor had she ever seen the sentence preprinted on a piece of paper in Miami. She confirmed her signature was directly underneath it, and that the signature below her name hand printed was also hers. She did not, however, remember a line being there, nor did she draw a line there herself.
Again reading from the document, Mr. Zonen continued, ?"Mrs. Arvizo also learned that Davellin and Star have been on T.V. without her consent. Please act accordingly? and then asked if she had signed the signature beneath that. Ms. Arvizo denied having signed it, but said it was indeed her signature.
A handwritten paragraph started with ?Mrs. Arvizo also learned?? was also discussed by Mr. Zonen, but Ms. Arvizo denied it being written in her handwriting, and denied ever having seen it before. Again she denied having signed any document twice.
She claimed while in Florida, nobody spoke to her of a lawsuit, mentioned an attorney in England, or spoke to her about her or her song being represented. She also denied anyone discussing the presentation of ?Living with Michael Jackson? with anyone on the first day in Florida, and did learn what it was till later.
Ms. Arvizo said the presentation of the documentary in the United Stated was the night of her first full night in Florida, and she had wanted to see it, because of the sudden threats against her children. Previously she had mentioned the threat being directed toward Gavin, but Mr. Jackson had told her that had changed, and the threats were now directed towards all three children.
She explain the first time she learned of the presentation of the documentary was after Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner had extracted all the information from her, but nobody had explained what the documentary was, besides that it featured her children, but not in which manner.
When asked with whom she had spoken of ?Living with Michael Jackson?, she replied, ?At this point, the initial meeting. Then the Ronald and Dieter with Michael. Afterwards, let me see, they kept pulling Gavin into -- Ronald, Mr. Weisner and Gavin (sic) kept pulling Gavin into a room by himself. I was thinking they're talking about the press conference. Then Michael kept pulling Gavin into a room all by himself over and over. So it was in the middle of the pulling Gavin into the bedroom?
Again Mr. Zonen asked who had told her the documentary would be on television, she said nobody had, but that she had overheard Mr. Jackson talking to Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner. She had tried to be able to view the documentary, but did not view it, because Davellin had called her to the room, saying Mr. Jackson was angry.
She explained Mr. Jackson did not want her to see it, but offered no explanation why, and she did not ask why, because she kept thinking that since they were going to take care of her kids from the ?killers? she had better?
In Miami she had not clue about the contents of the documentary, and she did not make any questions or inquiries as to how her children were depicted until after Miami. She said, she had not seen the documentary in it?s entirety to this date, and no longer wanted to see it.
Mr. Zonen asked her, if she had any other conversation with Mr. Jackson on the full day she had spent in his room that she had not already spoken of which she denied.
The next day they had flown back to California, but not to her home. Ms. Arvizo said they never had a press conference, and nobody explained why a press conference had never taken place, or discussed an alternative. She did not ask anyone why there was no press conference and said that ?I did start to ask questions now, that's when a lot of craziness started happening?
She explained that she had approached Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, but they had shut her down saying ?Arghh, you stupid woman? and the entire situation escalated and ended with Roland saying things like he could have her erased if she made him angry, which terrified her.
Ms. Arvizo never went to Mr. Jackson and told him of the situation with Roland and Mr. Weisner, and she clarified that the situation did not happen till they got to Neverland.
The questioning turned to the flight from Miami to California, and Ms. Arvizo explained she wasn?t supposed to fly back with everybody else. Mr. Jackson?s head security of traveling, Big Mike, had spoken to her about flying separately. Ms. Arvizo said she did not know his real name. She said she had started crying, and Big Mike had told her he would speak to the boss, and then called her back, and confirmed she could fly back with the kids, if she would stay quiet.
On the flight the other passengers were Baby Rubba, Marie Nicole, all three of Mr. Jackson?s children, Patty and Grace, a doctor whom she knew as Dr. Farsha, her children, Mr. Jackson, one flight attendant and herself. Mr. Zonen asked her who Baby Rubba was, and Ms. Arvizo explained she had come to find out his name is Al or Aldo, and it was a relative of Frank Tyson.
Mr. Zonen asked Ms. Arvizo about whether or not she knew Frank Tyson at the time of the flight going back, and she explained she had met him in August of 2000 during the family?s initial visit to Neverland. Frank Tyson was also present in Miami, but did not speak to Ms. Arvizo.
The prosecutor also asked her about the possibility of a friendship between Davellin and Marie Nicole, and whether or not the two had gone to New York on a shopping trip. Ms. Arvizo said, ?A lot of things I haven't heard, and they just pop up?, and denied the two had been friends prior to Florida, or even in Florida. She said they weren?t together till Neverland.
When asked about if she knew where the plane was going to, she replied, ?Well, I thought -- I just thought that maybe it was going to land in Los Angeles, and then, you know, I'm -- you know, and that's it? but said nobody told her of the destination.
Returning to the trip to Florida, Mr. Zonen asked if she knew of the length of their stay in Miami when they flew to Miami, but she said she assumed they would just do the press conference and then go home, since the children were in school, and she noted the day of their departure for Miami was a school day, because they had to wait till Davellin got out of school.
Ms, Arvizo said there were no arrangements made to accommodate their absence from school, and she had not expected for the children to be absent from school for an extended period of time.
Mr. Zonen questioned Ms. Arvizo about the flight from Miami again, asking her when she realized the destination was not Los Angeles but rather Neverland and she replied it was on the flight.
The prosecutor then asked her if she remember which seats were occupied by herself, Mr. Jackson and her children, after showing her exhibit No 808, identified as a chart of the inside of an airplane. She explained some things ?Some things are just burned in here?
Mr. Zonen questioned her about the activity on the plane, and Ms. Arvizo replied, ?Baby Rubba, Marie Nicole were running all over the place. His kids were running all over the place? and that the flight attendant was very busy.
The witness was then asked to mark on the exhibit with a blue pen, where she sat by writing her initials, and Mr. Jackson?s seat with his initials, as well as anyone else she could remember the seat position for. Afterwards Mr. Zonen asked Ms. Arvizo to confirm that the names now written on the chart accurately depicted where everybody sat, and moved to have it introduced into evidence, which was allowed without object from Mr. Mesereau.
Mr. Zonen then had the chart published, handed the witness a laser, and asked her to point to where ?MJ? was. He asked if Mr. Jackson?s seat was facing the seat of Davellin correctly, which she confirmed, and she furthermore confirmed that Gavin was sitting next to Mr. Jackson, facing the seat of Star.
Questioning Ms. Arvizo about her seat, marked by ?JJ? the prosecutor asked what ?JJ? stands for. ?Janet Jackson?, Ms, Arvizo explained and showed in which direction her seat faced. She went on to explain that she was not able to see over the top of the seat, because they were really big and above her head. The prosecutor then asked her out about the people she sat with, which were Dr. Farshshian, facing her, as well as Patty and Grace, whom she said were nannies for Mr. Jackson.
Moving on to what Ms. Arvizo said was ?kind of like a couch? she confirmed four people were on that seat, and that there was another similar seat above it, but Ms. Arvizo did not remember if anyone sat in that seat. She furthermore stated the stewardess always sat in the back, because ?Grace would get mad at her and throw her in the back ? Like she had to be working, because ? and if you were not working, you go back?.
Mr. Zonen pointed the questioning to whether or not Ms. Arvizo saw anything on the flight what caused concern, which was confirmed by Ms. Arvizo.
When asked to describe what she saw, she turned to the jury and exclaimed ?Don?t judge me. At that time I was -- I hadn't slept for so long. When everybody had fallen asleep -- and it was hours into the flight. I hadn't gotten up, and so -- and I figured this was my chance to look and see what had -- what was going on back there. So I got up, and that's when I saw Michael licking Gavin's head. I thought it was me. I thought I was seeing things. I thought it was me. When we got off the airplane and I asked my son, I asked him, "Are you okay?" He said, "I'm okay." And that was it?
Ms. Arvizo explained Gavin was asleep at the time, and Mr. Jackson?s arm was around Gavin. She claimed Mr. Jackson licked the boy repeatedly in his hair on the side of his head, but she said she was not going to tell nobody of what she had seen. The first person she did tell was the police ?way, way after, way after Neverland? after Star had told her what he had seen.
The witness was not able to pinpoint exactly when during the flight the incident happened, except that it was after everybody had done to sleep.
After the plane landed, Ms. Arvizo said a car was right there when they got out of the plane, so she was unable to say which airport they landed at, or whether it was a small airport. She explained it took less than an hour to drive to Neverland, and that they had their luggage with them.
Mr. Zonen asked where the family stayed when they reached Neverland, and she explained she lived in one of the guesthouses, and that they arrived very early morning. She claimed Mr. Jackson had the car stop ?like way at the beginning, and then we all had to walk in the freezing night into Neverland? along a pathway.
Mr. Zonen asked if the family went straight to the cottage. Janet Arvizo's reply was "No. We went straight into the house. And then from the house, we got all our bags, and then that's where my garbage bag was missing I had tied up to my red sports bag. Mr. Zonen asked if she had a plastic garbage bag and she replied yes. She said "With my stuff. And then I had put in the Turnberry bag, I had put my shoes inside there, my Timberland shoes, so they wouldn't dirty the rest of my stuff."
Mr. Zonen asked if that was the only form of luggage she brought with when she went to Miami. She replied yes plus the red bag. Wasn't the red bag a Turnberry Hotel bag asked Zonen and the reply was "the red bag was my bag." Trying to clarify he asked "It was a separate bag that you had with you?" Ms. Arvizo said "Yes. And the white garbage bag was tied to the handles of my red bag." She added that the bag was not with her when she got to Neverland and she immediately told Jesus Salas and Jesus contacted Chris Tucker. Then Michael was told and he said "It's okay. We'll replace everything in there."
Janet Arvizo was then asked where she stayed that night at Neverland. She replied "Neverland, in the guesthouse." She was also asked where Davellin was and she said in one of the guesthouses. When she was asked where the boys were, she said with Michael. Where with Michael was the question and she replied "now I know, okay." At the time she knew they were in the house, but never walked there during the nighttime nor did she ever make an effort to contact either of the boys while they were inside the house.
Ms. Arvizo left her room about mid-morning the next day. Davellin was not with her. Davellin was with Marie Nicole and Baby Rubba. Zonen asked "Did Davellin stay the night in your room?" "Not in my room. In a guesthouse. She was asked if she knew where Marie Nicole or Aldo stayed or Baby Rubba. "Oh, Marie Nicole stood in the room ? they have a bed over there above the theater. There's a bed. That's where she slept. And Aldo and the boys, they slept with Michael."
Going back to the subject of returning to Neverland, Ms. Arvizo was asked if she expected to go back to Neverland and she replied no, that nobody asked her. She said she did not want to return because the kids were in school and she was just going to do this press conference and that's all.
Mr. Zonen asked if once she was back at Neverland if she saw either Mr. Konitzer or Mr. Weisner. Not immediately she said, but the next day Mr. Weisner came and Mr. Konitzer came several days later. However she admitted that she wasn't sure. When Ms. Arvizo was asked how long she stayed at Neverland, she replied until Jesus helped her.
Mr. Zonen asked to show an exhibit and then questioned whether or not it was in evidence. An off-the-record discussion followed. Mr. Zonen asked the clerk to confirm that No. 405 was in evidence and the clerk indicated that it was not. Mr. Zonen then asked for permission to approach the witness and showed her an exhibit for identification. He indicated that it was 405, a full page, and asked her to take her time and read it to herself.
When she had finished reading, he asked her if she knew who Bell Yard was. Her response was "no." She was asked if it was a press release and she didn't know. Was she quoted in it was the question and she said "yes" but she never made those quotes and wasn't interviewed for the content of the document. Actually she stated this was the first time she had seen it even though it was attributed to Janet Ventura-Arvizo on Sunday, February 9, 2003. At that point Mr. Zonen asked Judge Melville to introduce 405 into evidence and Mr. Mesereau objected stating hearsay and no foundation. Judge Melville said "I don't think there is a foundation. I was looking. It was identified on March 2nd, but I can't recall who identified it." Mr. Zonen thought it was Ann Gabriel and then asked to withdraw it for a later time.
Ms. Arvizo was asked how many days she stayed at Neverland and she had no idea. She said that she had indicated that she told Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, in Mr. Jackson's presence, that she wanted to leave Neverland. Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner told her she had to do the rebuttal.
When Mr. Zonen asked her if that was the first she had heard about a rebuttal she replied "Right on." She also indicated that she had many conversations with Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner while being prepared for the rebuttal. Mr. Zonen questioned what she meant by preparing and she replied "They had this -- this thing that I guess -- they had extracted all the information from us. It was like a script." Mr. Zonen continued by asking if anyone had mentioned a rebuttal in Miami and Ms. Arvizo said never.
The reply to who was the first person to broach the subject was Mr. Weisner. Mr. Zonen ask if Mr. Jackson had talked to her about doing a rebuttal and she said no, that Mr. Jackson said "Do everything that Ronald and Dieter tell you, and it will fix everything." Ms. Arvizo said, that Mr. Jackson had repeated the exact same thing as he had said earlier in Miami.
While Ms. Arvizo had concerns regarding Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, she never expressed her concerns to Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Zonen asked the witness what Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner had told her regarding the rebuttal video, and she explained that it was ?In answer to -- in answer to everything of the "Living with Michael Jackson." They were concerned about how he looked. They weren't concerned about my children, me, anything else. Only him? and in regards her to children, they had told her, it would ?appease the killers?.
The prosecutor asked exactly who had actually used the world ?killers? and she replied it was Mr. Jackson, Mr. Konitzer, Mr. Weisner and later on Mr. Tyson and Vinnie Amen, and she added ?And you know what? They ended up being the killers?
Mr. Zonen tried to figure out where the word ?Killers? started from, and asked who the first person to use the word was, after instructing Ms. Arvizo, to answer that question only. ?Michael? she replied, and explained it was in Miami.
Afterwards Mr. Zonen focused on the rebuttal video, wanting to know exactly what Ms. Arvizo knew of the video beforehand. She knew it was in response to ?Living with Michael Jackson? and when the prosecutor asked if anyone had explained her contents of the documentary, she replied, ?No. They just -- it was a script, and that was it, and expressed -- worked with us daily, numerous times, on what to do, what to do in between the outtakes, what to do before, and that's it?
She explained Mr. Weisner had shown her a script containing nothing but ?glowing things about Michael? and had told her it would ?appease the killers?. Mr. Zonen asked her if she had said she would do the rebuttal, to which she replied, ?No. Prior to Jesus, it was a no? and this was ?Because I told them, "What's wrong with the truth?" And that's it?
Mr. Zonen asked Ms. Arvizo ?Why did you to go Jesus?? She replied, ?Because after asking them to leave so many times and they wouldn't let me leave. And then they were all working on a positive PR for Michael. They also wanted to point out how they were doing things for the mother and the kids. It was -- they were going to use it -- it went back and forth, and then they were going to use it in lieu, like -- also, like, they don't think that they were going to put out there. They're crazy. So that was ??
Mr. Zonen interrupted her, ?You don't remember the question, do you?? ?No?, she admitted.
He tried again, ?Why did you go to Jesus? and her reply was ?To help me?. She explained she spoke to Jesus Salas in both English and Spanish, because she was very concerned about anybody hearing. She had asked Mr. Salas to help her and the children to leave, and he had replied that ?nobody should ever be held if they don?t want to stay there? and he had helped the family to leave.
However, leaving Neverland with Jesus was not her first time off the Neverland grounds during the period of her time there. When Mr. Zonen asked her where, she replied, ?Ronald and Dieter said, like I told you about Michael's positive PR, and they wanted to show that he's doing things for the mother and the kids. And, you know, so -- they had me so wrapped up. I believed everything they said?. The prosecutor tried to catch the attention of the witness by calling out her name, and repeated his question ?Where did you go?? and she replied, ?Okay. I went to, like, a beauty place. And, oh, but get this-? Zonen again tried to catch the attention of the witness by calling out her name twice, while she said she paid for the treatment. For the third time Zonen repeated ?Where did you go?? and her reply was ?Okay. I went and got my legs waxed? and she continued before Mr. Zonen could speak ?And the key thing there??
?Hold on, hold on? Zonen said, but unfazed, Ms. Arvizo continued, ?-- I'll pay for it, because it was in replacement of my things?. Zonen instructed her to only answer the question asked, and he tried to clarify where she had been. ?You went to a beauty salon of some nature; is that right?? which she confirmed. ?Did you have a body wax?? ?No?, she replied, but acknowledged to have had her legs waxed. She said it was Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner?s idea, because they wanted to do some positive PR, by doing something for the mother.
Ms. Arvizo explained she had said ?I -- I told them, ?The only way I'm going to do that is if you deduct that from the things that were lost or stolen.? Who knows?? and this was agreed on. She explained Christ Carter had taken her to the beauty salon ?and then their little surveilling people?. Her children were with Mr. Jackson while she was off the ranch, but she returned after the treatment.
Mr. Zonen asked, if this was the day she left Neverland, and she replied, ?I think it was, because I figured, you know what? That's it. That's enough. They got their positive PR, and now maybe I can go?. But ?The Germans? followed her everywhere, so when they fell asleep, she contacted Mr. Salas who agreed to take her and her children off the property, and drove them home to her mother?s house. She explained ?They had me scared about going to my mom -- to my own place? and when Mr. Zonen asked her what they had told her about her Soto Residence, she replied, ?That the killers had been there, that it had even been broken into. I believed everything they said. Now -- now I don't?
Mr. Zonen wanted to know if Mr. Konitzer or Mr. Weisner knew where her residence was, and she told him, that they found out all details in Miami, plus Mr. Jackson had known beforehand, and had picked up the children from that residence.
Continuing questioning, the prosecutor wanted to know how long the Arvizo family stayed at Ms. Arvizo?s mother?s house, but she didn?t remember. ?But I remember Frank convincing me that it's too scary to stay there. And I figured my parents are old, and so I went to Jay's house? and she took her children with her, because she still didn?t want to return to Neverland.
Ms. Arvizo didn?t know how long she stayed at Jay Jackson?s house either, but testified she received a lot of phone calls while she stayed with both her mother, and Jay Jackson. Most phone calls were from Mr. Tyson, but Mr. Jackson had also called once to speak to the boys while they were at her mother?s house. This phone call from Mr. Jackson was almost immediately after the family had left Neverland.
Ms. Arvizo testified Mr. Tyson called ?all the time? and said ?That he loves us, Michael loves us, and, you know, loves -- he wants to protect us. I'm in so much danger, me and the children. Just ? just everything in those kind of topics? and he had described the danger by saying, ?You don't know, Janet. We're receiving constant death threats here about the children?.
Mr. Zonen returned to the phone call from Mr. Jackson and Ms. Arvizo answered that she did not speak to Mr. Jackson, and continued, ?Frank had already done the legwork for him, let him know?. The prosecutor clarified that his question had only been, whether or not she had spoken with Mr. Jackson, which she denied.
Moving on, Mr. Zonen asked about what happened when the family went to Jay Jackson?s residence in mid-Wilshire on St. Andrews Place, and asked if the phone calls continued there. ?Yes?, she replied. ?Were you called Frank Back? Was he leaving messages? Were you returning his call?? Mr. Zonen asked, and she answered ?The ones I returned, probably maybe ? at that time, before returning to Neverland? I think maybe -- maybe once. Once or three times. Very -- definitely less than five. The rest were all him?
?Did Frank, in any of his conversations with you, tell you who it was who posed a danger to your children?? the prosecutor requested, ?No. The killers, you know. Now when somebody knocks, I say, "Okay, it's either a subpoena or a killer? she replied.
Mr. Zonen wanted to know is Mr. Tyson had ever discussed other matters with Ms. Arvizo over the phone, and she confirmed that he had also spoken of how much Mr. Jackson loved her and her children, and that Mr. Tyson had spoken of the rebuttal video, ?And I had told them no, because Dieter and Ronald had scripted it, and so they wanted us to say exactly what they wanted us to say for -- what they wanted us to exactly say? she explained.
Mr. Zonen asked if the children had gone back to school, after Mr. Salas had driven the family away from Neverland, but Ms. Arvizo said they had not, because she still believed that killers were after her children, but she also stated ?then afterwards, I came to find out from Mr. Davie that honestly no reporter ever came to my children's school?
Ms. Arvizo testified that when she came home to her mother?s house, the tables were filled with offers from reporters, including offers for vacations, money, cars, and the presence of the offers, convinced her that the talk of killers chasing her family, was true.
?Did anybody actually call and contact?and talk to you while you were there?? Mr. Zonen questioned, and she replied, ?The phone was ringing like crazy, so I would pick it up and pretend it wasn't me, you know, just in case it was one of my parents' family members, because my mother's mother has Alzheimer's, so my mom and her sister, or a combination, they take care of her, so, you know ??
Ms. Arvizo explained that the many letters of the table included monetary offers in exchange for interviews with either her, her children or the entire family, one offered as much as 100,000$ in cash, for story about Gavin. Ms. Arvizo denied ever calling any of the reporters, or having had any conversation with any reporters, besides the initial contact by two reporters, previous to the trip to Miami. She also denied ever communicating to any reporters that she was willing to do a story or receiving payment.
To this day, she said, she has still not accepted payment from any reporter, or given a story to any reporters, nor does she have any intentions of making any arrangements to do a story in the future.
Judge Melville called for a break, and when they returned, Mr. Zonen returned to the phone calls received from Mr. Tyson. ?Miss Arvizo, I've been asking you about a series of telephone calls that you received from Frank, and I asked you, I believe, if anybody else had called you about this same issue. Your answer was what?? Ms, Arvizo replied ?About?? and the prosecutor clarified ?About this matter of returning to Neverland?. She confirmed that Mr. Jackson had also called about the issue, but denied anyone else having called.
Ms. Arvizo explained Mr. Tyson had spoken of the family returning to Neverland, and she continued in regards to the rebuttal, ?Yeah. And also, you know, about the media, that they were all bad people. And, you know, they -- they made me believe that.? She turned to the audience in the court, and said, ?I think different of you guys now. That -- that's what they made me believe about you guys, but, you know, you guys are basically good guys, too. You guys are the good side. It's okay?
Mr. Zonen asked if she was aware that the phone calls were tape-recorded, which she denied, but admitted having listened to one of the tape-recordings. She explained the D.A.?s office had played her the recording at the grand jury, and that the first time she had heard the recording, was just prior to the grand jury, and then again at the grand jury.
The prosecutor wanted to know, if Ms. Arvizo remembered the specific phone call which was played, but she said, ?It wasn't one specific phone call. It was many conversations, and the masters of choreography blended it all into one tape?. When Mr. Zonen asked how she knew there was more than one call taped, she explained, ?Because I?m the one talking?.
Mr. Zonen started to ask, ?You simply remember that it was ?? but Ms. Arvizo broke him off, saying, ?That, and also the key thing such as, you know, my being at my mom's, being at Jay's, there's a difference. My children all not being there, and then Gavin being there. Just different little clues. Since I was the one talking, I knew. And also, one key thing. The original phone number that -- that Frank had given me was very different than the conversation that ended up being on the tape. And that -- that number was actually towards more over here rather than in the beginning?. He tried again, ?I'm not certain I understood that. There was ?? but again, she interrupted him, ?There were many conversations blended onto one tape and made as if it was only one conversation. So you're going to hear a series of different conversations all blended into one?
In an attempt to clarify, the prosecutor asked about a phone number Mr. Tyson had given her, and requested that she clarified what she meant. She replied, ?That phone number, the 201 number, was not the one that was originally given to you, it was a different number, that's why I know? but she continued that she didn?t call Mr. Tyson at that number at the time.
?At any time during this period while you were in Los Angeles, before returning to Neverland?? Mr. Zonen questioned, and Ms. Arvizo answered, ?Okay. Before returning to Neverland, I?m seeing -- I'm being generous. Maybe if ? maybe less than three, less than five. And I ?? and after an attempt to clarify by Mr. Zonen, the conclusion was, Ms. Arvizo had called Mr. Tyson back on the number given, perhaps once. She explained Mr. Tyson called so often, that she did not need to ever return a phone call.
Ms. Arvizo testified that Mr. Tyson left phone messages if she did not pick up, but she was unable to estimate how many times a day Mr. Tyson called her. Mr. Zonen asked if the subject of the phone calls was the rebuttal video, and she replied, ?This is when he was pulling me back in?.
Mr. Zonen played a CD marked as exhibit No 809 and promised he would bring a transcript of the recording the next morning. He asked Ms. Arvizo to confirm it was the same tape she had previously listened to, which she did.
Questioning Ms. Arvizo about Mr. Tyson, Zonen asked how she felt about Mr. Tyson at the time of the played phone calls. ?Well, I -- I thought he was a good guy. And he ended up being the worst one out of all of them? she replied. ?At the time of these telephone calls, you had trust in him?? Mr. Zonen continued. ?Yes, because he was repeating the same things. Not identical, but he was repeating the same things that Michael had told me in the Miami thing; that we were family. He had said that family never leaves family behind.? She answered.
Ms, Arvizo acknowledged she had only met Mr. Jackson on one occasion, and continued, ?But because he was going ? I knew violence, and so when he presented to me that there was a violence to my son and my kids, I thought, you know, what a nice guy?. She furthermore explained that she believed Mr. Tyson.
Mr. Tyson had explained to her when she returned to Neverland, that Mr. Jackson had fired Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner because of the way they had tried the Arvizo family. In the phone conversations Mr. Tyson had asked if it was okay to post a 24-hour guard outside your home, and Mr. Zonen asked if that was the case. Ms. Arvizo said she repeatedly said no, and that she in fact never did have a guard outside her house.
She had turned down the offer, because she did not want her parents to get scared, and because of this, she hid many things from them.
Mr. Zonen asked when Ms. Arvizo returned to Neverland, and she testified it happened after Mr. Tyson convinced her. The prosecutor, still inquiring about what was said on the tape, asked if the mention video, equaled the rebuttal video, which Ms. Arvizo confirmed. She explained that she had agreed to do the rebuttal video, as long as it was not scripted, and that she at the time, had nothing but positive things to say of Mr. Jackson.
Also in the taped conversation, Mr. Zonen pointed to references to Mr. Jackson and Mr. Tyson being family, and Ms. Arvizo said she believed him, because she wanted friends ?so bad?, because her ex-husband, David Arvizo, had always told her nobody loved her.
Mr. Zonen also asked about what Mr. Tyson knew about her ex-husband, and she explained, ?He already had known. I was just gathering? She turned to Mr. Jackson and continued, ?I was still trying to help you. I was gathering paperwork to prove of David committing these crimes on me and my kids and my animals? Mr. Zonen asked why she was gathering up paperwork, and she replied ?To give it to you?, still addressing Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Zonen wanted to know why she gathered up paperwork for Mr. Jackson, and she said, ?. Because David was interview after interview and after interview; so they could know that he's a liar? Ms. Arvizo testified her ex-husband had given several interview to reporters, or at least Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner had told her so.
She explained the two Germans had said bad stuff about her, the children and Mr. Jackson, and denied that anyone had asked her to gather paperwork, but did it to help. She had wanted to prove, ?everything that this man is saying from his mouth is untrue. David?
Zonen returned to Mr. Salas returning to her parents? house and asked what time of day or evening this had happened. ?I think -- I don't know. Maybe about one- something a.m? she replied. She testified she did not speak to Mr. Jackson before leaving Neverland. She also testified that the phone calls to her parents? house, and Jay Jackson?s house were continuous, and that it was the news of Mr. Jackson having fired Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, which caused her to return to Neverland.
Ms. Arvizo said she believed that the talk of the rebuttal video was over, that Mr. Tyson had told her, that she didn?t have to do it after all, and Mr. Zonen asked if she had expressed reservations towards Mr. Tyson about doing the rebuttal video. ?No, he -- I had told him that the Germans wanted to dictate exactly what we wanted to say, so I was -- I told him no. And so afterwards, towards when -- the end, Frank had said that, okay, that I didn't have to do it at all, me and the kids? she replied.
Before returning to Neverland, Ms. Arvizo testified she had an interview with Brad Miller, a man whom she did not know. She had never met him before, but the interview was arranged by Mr. Tyson. The interview took place in Jay Jackson?s apartment, and took place only hours after Mr. Tyson had arranged it for her.
Ms. Arvizo was asked which reason Mr. Tyson had given for the interview, and she explained, ?He had called me like in a state of panic, and he was telling me, "Quick, Janet, quick. We need you to talk to Bradley Miller because he's a P.I., and he just saw" -- "he just saw David make contact with the killers." And then he's -- he told me about how important it is to say nice things about Michael and that Michael was going to protect me and the kids?
Mr. Miller arrived by himself, had introduced himself as Mr. Jackson?s P.I. Ms. Arvizo said she had not had the opportunity to listen to a tape recording of the interview, but remembered at some point during the interview, Mr. Miller had turned off the tape recorder, and explained it was because ?I had walked in for that second, and then I had walked back out right after he had turned it back on, and he said that -- that -- here's that phrase, to say nice things about Michael, because that would appease the killers. That phrase is burned in my brain?
Ms. Arvizo testified she was not in the room throughout the interview, but that she kept going in and out, because Jay Jackson was very militant, and seemed upset, so she wanted to check on him. Regarding the length of the interview, she answered, ?It -- I since have seen the transcript to it, and it shows an ending time, and the ending time is inaccurate. It's incorrect?. In her opinion the interview lasted for a little over an hour.
She explained Mr. Miller instructed her before turning on the tape recorder, ?Yeah, he fed us. Sometimes we would rewind, stop, rewind, stop. And so he was feeding us, but everything I said, I said it with my heart?. She spoke nicely of Mr. Jackson, and believed in those things at the time.
Afterwards she returned to Neverland, per arrangements by Mr. Tyson. Mr. Zonen asked, ?When you got back to Neverland, what did you see?? ?And another thing, too, that I seen, which I wasn't that correct on, I noticed that there is -- the only way I can know this is because when Chris Carter brought me back, immediately the phone ? the phone stuff was subpoenaed, so on the day that I used Chris Carter's phone is the day that ?? she replied.
Mr. Zonen tried to back up ?We're jumping ahead of ourselves?, he said, but Ms. Arvizo continued, ?Well, okay. I feel the date may be incorrect also. But the only reason is because I found out afterwards of that phone call?. Again Mr. Zonen backed up, ?We're going to get there. We're going to get there. You're back in Los Angeles. Who is it who brought you back to Neverland?? She explained Gary Hearn had taken her and her children to Neverland, and they had arrived during the afternoon.
Mr. Zonen asked what she saw when she got there. ?Ronald and Dieter?, she replied. ?Did that surprise you?? the prosecutor asked. ?Minutes -- minutes into being inside the house? she replied. Mr. Zonen asked her to clarify which house she was talking about. ?Michael?s house? she replied. Mr. Jackson had been there, and had gone straight to the children, and took them into his office. Ms. Arvizo said she did not speak to Mr. Jackson when she arrived, but she saw Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner right away, and knew Mr. Tyson had lied the entire time.
?What did you do when you saw them?? Mr. Zonen asked, ?I told them that I had an emergency and I have to go back home, me and the kids have to go back home? she replied, and explained she said it to Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner. They had said no, the kids couldn?t go. She could go if she had an emergency, but the kids had to stay. She said, ?And that at this point is when they had pointed out to me that my outside phone calls are being monitored, that I'm being watched, listened to, and they can make my kids disappear?
Mr. Zonen started to ask, ?What this the first time?? but Ms. Arvizo interrupted, ?And that anybody -- anybody I told -- and at this time I'm like, what am I going to tell? That we're walking across the grass? You know, what am I going to tell? And that anybody that I told, their life was going to be in danger?. Mr. Zonen asked if she made a decision about whether or not she would leave Neverland, which she confirmed. ?What was that decision?? he asked. ?That?s the only way I could get out, because the other time it took -- it took a long process for me to leave. And this time, Jesus had told me he couldn't help me?. Mr. Zonen repeated his question, adding ?To leave?? She confirmed.
The prosecutor asked if Ms. Arvizo if she had spoken to anyone besides Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner about leaving Neverland, and she replied, ?Yeah, well, Jesus, I asked him for help. We went from the -- from the video place, tried to talk -- I tried to talk secret with him in Spanish because I was talking to him in English and that's when Dieter had walked up, and then I -- and then I tried to talk to him in Spanish. And we went to the train station, and we went up -- up to the -- way up on the top, and I tried to talk to him, plead for him to help me, and he said he couldn't help me anymore, because when I had -- when I had left, the whole house turned into chaos?
She explained she had asked Mr. Salas specifically to take her children and her back to Los Angeles, which she confirmed, and when asked what Mr. Salas told her, she said, ?That he couldn't; that to ask Chris for help, because he doesn't know, and -- and I found out that everybody was on a need-to-know basis; that not unless they stumbled upon the problem or they were pulled into it, other than that, everybody was clueless?
Ms. Arvizo testified she was going to go look for Mr. Carter, but she didn?t have to, because she happened to see him. She knew Mr. Carter from a prior visit to Neverland, and knew him as Mr. Jackson?s personal bodyguard, and she had found him to have been nice in the past. She went up to him to ask if she could leave with her children, but she then she saw Mr. Konitzer and Mr. Weisner, and ?so I completely, you know, "pshooo," played it off; it was just an emergency?
She explained she did leave Neverland without her children, and when Mr. Zonen asked her why, she said ?Because I did. Because of the reasons that I just told you?
Ms. Arvizo had used Mr. Carter?s cell phone on the drive back to Los Angeles to call Jay Jackson, and she explained that she had been praying in the car, because she was scared. ?What were you worried about?? Mr. Zonen asked, and she replied, ?That they were going to make true on everything that they had said?. She testified she was not able to reach Jay Jackson on the phone, but that Mr. Carter had dropped her off at Jay Jackson?s apartment.
?Do you recall at approximately what time you arrived?? Mr. Zonen asked, and she replied, ?Oh, I don't know, but that -- that telephone call is -- you could see it on the subpoenaed phone record?. Mr. Zonen asked about how many phone calls Ms. Arvizo made to Jay Jackson, but all she could say was ?A lot of them?.
Zonen turned the attention to the conversation which had been played in court, and asked ?Frank mentions a trip, going someplace; says you'll be dancing every night. Do you remember that conversation?? which she confirmed. Mr. Zonen asked if she had had more than one conversation with Mr. Tyson about going someplace, and she replied, ?Yeah. They wanted us to leave the country?
?Did you tell you where they wanted you to go?? Mr. Zonen asked, and she replied, ?Well, this is in Neverland, when I -- and I found out that they were monitoring my phone calls inside Neverland. They had first mentioned Austria. And so I had mentioned it to -- to Jay, I think it was Jay, over the phone, and then they came in hollering, because nobody was supposed to know. Then they found out that I had -- that I knew Spanish and was a Spanish-speaking country and the end result was Brazil, so I knew that they wanted me out of the country since then?
Mr. Zonen wanted to know if the idea of wanting Ms. Arvizo to Brazil had begun prior to Mr. Salas, which she confirmed, and said, that Mr. Tyson had often mentioned it in the phone calls she had had with him. Mr. Zonen asked if Mr. Tyson had given a reason why he wanted her to go to Brazil, ?At first -- everything ? everything evolved. At first, it was to keep me and my children safe from the killers. Then -- then it just evolved into that, into -- and one of the maximum points was until they had damage-controlled everything for you?. ?No, you need to address us, okay?? Mr. Zonen instructed Ms. Arvizo, and she corrected, ?I mean for Michael. And it escalated to that there was no definite time of return, until they fixed everything for you, for Michael?
Mr. Zonen asked, ?Now, at some time after you came back to Jay's residence, at some point around that time, did you become aware of the fact that the Department of Child & Family Services wanted to talk with you?? and she said she became aware immediately. Mr. Zonen asked if it was before or after she returned to Neverland, and she replied, ?When Chris Carter brought me back, immediately like that, so then I said yes, I'm going to use this as an excuse to get my children out; that I need them for that. Oh, they went into high gear now, more?
The prosecutor tried to pull back, ?Hold on. We'll get there. We'll get there, okay? Now, who was it who called you from the Department of Child & Family Services?? and Ms. Arvizo replied, ?On the phone I spoke to three ladies at three different times, because I was trying to meet with the Child Protective Services by myself, in their office, because I figured -- because I believed what the Germans had said. So I figured, you know what? Maybe inside their office, you know, it's going to be safe to express to them that my children are still there and they're not letting them out?
Ms. Arvizo testified she had asked if the interview could be held at the office, but they had denied the request, and she added they were not helpful. Mr. Zonen asked for a clarification of who ?they? were, and Ms. Arvizo explained, ?Karen Walker. LaVerne. And I think ? I don't know whether it's Jackie or Yvonne. She goes by two ??
?There you two people that you had spoken with?? Mr. Zonen interrupted, and Ms. Arvizo replied, ?Three? and confirmed she had spoken to all three over the telephone. ?Same conversation or different conversations?? Mr. Zonen asked, ?Different conversations, because I couldn?t make them aware over the phone that - because I believed that my phone calls were being monitored - that they were over there? Ms. Arvizo answered.
She further testified that she did not know why the DCFS wanted to speak to her, and they offered no explanation either. They had said they would inform her in the meeting, and had not told her of any allegations till the meeting. Neither did they discuss the video ?Living with Michael Jackson?.
Mr. Zonen wanted to know if Ms. Arvizo had told anyone at Neverland that she had been contacted by the DCFS, and she said, ?Yes. I had called the administration office. I had called -- I had called -- I had called Jesus. Jesus did not return a -- not a single phone call of mine. And the administration offices, their business offices did not return any of my phone calls. And then so there was contact made between Frank and me?. Ms. Arvizo did not know if Frank had called her back, or if she had called him, but she said she remembered being ?completely desperate?.
Mr. Zonen asked if anyone from DCFS has requested the presence of the children during the interview, which Ms, Arvizo confirmed, and she testified they had told her they needed to see the children themselves. She had communicated this fact to Mr. Tyson, but had not told anyone else. The two had had a number of conversations regarding the interview with DCFS, and Mr. Zonen asked if she remembers any of these conversations, ?Yeah. That -- I mean, my kids, because of this meeting? she replied. She explained what Mr. Tyson told her during that time, ?At first, it was no, unless I do the video. Then it evolved into -- it evolved into more?
Ms. Arvizo testified that it evolved into that if she did a good job in the rebuttal video, she would not have to leave the country, and eventually she agreed to do the video. Mr. Tyson had told her the video needed to be before the DCFS interview, but she had no recollection of any of the dates of the events. The only date she remembered was that the interview was scheduled for the 20th, which was a Thursday.
Mr. Zonen asked the court to check that the 20th was indeed a Thursday, and Mr. Mesereau asked to see the calendar, after which it was decided it was time to call it a day. The day ended with Judge Melville instructing everyone, ?Is it time to stop? Okay. We'll stop. See you tomorrow morning at 8:30. Remember the admonitions? and court adjourned at 2:30 pm.
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Updated: Sun, May 22 2005 2:18 AM JST
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Updated: Sun, May 22 2005 2:18 AM JST
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Judge: Talk show host's testimony isn't relevant
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