Message 1:
From: PersonNo6
Throwing in an Indian and stereotyping it as the herald of old myths seemed very cliche to me. All of a sudden the Indian walks in and kneels down and starts babbling about "Wendigo" and goes into the whole myth, I thought it was exactly the wrong way to introduce the myth and really throughout it belonged later in the movie after Carlyle kills some. They incredibly stereotyped Indians with that scene, it reminded me of a John Wayne movie where Kicking Fox explains in his native language the superstitious myth of some creature, and John Wayne makes fun of him. All right, well not exactly, but you get the point.
Besides that I thought the supernatural powers should be somewhat more limited. Jumping up from being shot at didn't make much sense to me, and I realize the whole myth supported the idea but it seemed almost exaggerated. The most annoying thing is to have the antagonist turn into Michael Meyers in a movie that feels so realistic.
Again I enjoyed the movie and feel it is horribly underrated, but there is no getting around the aforementioned points.
Message 2:
From: DanzigerE2@aol.com
Hmm, you have a wonderful point here. Here is a thought: the character George was made for the sole purpose of introducing us to "Wendigo". If you think about it, that is all he does, introduces us to it and then dies. The point is, they purposely choose a Native American for the role. Why? It works. Later Ives tells Boyd "an Indian Scout" told him so that might lead us to believe that it was a myth only among the Native American. Which is historically accurate. Here is a site about the legend: Weendigo
As for the stereotype: I am part Native American myself of the Onieda. This was more of an appeal to me in the film than an offense. I was not offended at all actually, if I was you wouldn't find me here. I loved the Native American music, the materials we see, and I don't know about you, but laughed hysterically when he said "White man eats the flesh of Christ every Sunday." If it was the line itself or the brilliant way Jeffrey Jones delivered it, I don't know, but I thought it was great.
My complaint is George was killed too fast. He was very likable. On the other hand, they could have done the film without the character of George at all. Martha could have introduced us to the Myth, but she is a woman of few words. I couldn't see her rushing in to tell Hart about the Myth. My question is, why did they name him George? But I think it does nicely at the place it is in the film: foreshadows it perfectly. (Although, for some odd reason my brother thought the first time he viewed it that Boyd was going to go nuts and kill everyone on the Mountain.)
Another great point, Jumping up from being shot it is sort of silly. Even Robert Carlyle notes that in his commentary on the film. But wasn't his face so great when he comes back
up?
Message 3:
From: PersonNo6
I won't forget the look on Carlyle's face, and the fingers, all that was so damn eerie.
The Christ comment was equally funny, especially when he pulled out the skinned hide with christ painted on it. I just thought the Native American running into the room, taking out a deer hide painting and laying it across the floor, kneeling down and going on a rant. It wasn't a subtle introduction to the myth, that was the problem I think. It was very blunt. I understand the myth is historically accurate (never doubted it) but there has to be different approaches.
I also didn't think it was necessary to bring back Jeffrey Jones, I realize eating people heals, but when you have your innards cut out how much healing can be done.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the movie.
Also did anyone have trouble eating meat after this movie? A friend and I bought Wendy's fast food but could hardly eat it. Mainly because of that last scene with the human stew. The problem was the stew actually looked good, and that in itself is disturbing.
Message 4:
From: DanzigerE2@aol.com
I think bring back Jeffrey Jones was a shock to the viewer like when Calhoun waltzes in as Ives and Boyd throws himself against the wall most unnaturally. You don't expect it. But, yeah, an ax in the back doesn't help too much ether.
Message 5:
From: Dave
I'm right there with you, I love this film and don't want to nitpick it, but there are one or two things that bother me. For one, how does Calhoun become Colonel Ives? I mean did he just waltz up to General Slauson and Lindus in the woods as they were passing by and say, Hey, I heard you all need a Colonel, how about me? That really left me at a loss. But, on the other hand, It was brilliant the way they had Cleeves and Martha away from camp and Knox drunk therefore not one of them could ID Ives. This even made me frustrated for Boyd. I think that is my only present complaint, but I'm sure I'll think of more. As for a character I wanted to see more of: Major Knox. I didn't even know who Stephen Spinella was till this movie and now he is my favorite actor. I have only seen three of his movies, but he is one heck of a talent.
Message 6:
From: PersonNo6
Calhoun was always Colonel Ives. During his story he talked about how Colonel Ives's hunger was the most ravenous, and how Colonel Ives is the one
that took the trail that ended up leading to disaster. I think Colonel Ives just returned to an outpost, knowing that Fort Spencer would need a new commander, and volunteered (since obviously no one else wanted to be there). Anyway - that's the impression I got.
Message 7:
From: Dave
I always thought that he was Colonel Ives the whole time as well, but there also could be the possibility that he was lying when he told Fort Spencer the story. He could have been Calhoun. Since he was ill and on his way to die or make peace with God, I can't recall the exact verbiage used in the film but this is what he tells Capt. Boyd, and when this Indian Scout tells him this tale, he turned on them all, including this Colonel Ives, who could have been an honest leader who took a wrong turn. We do see a bloody colonel's jacket laying among the skulls. I like the idea that he was Colonel Ives the whole time and was leading them to their graves while lying stating that he knew a fast way. It's more believable, but then you have the problem of why wasn't he acting as a Colonel in this time of war and off wondering about the West?
Message 8:
From: greischar
When I was looking at the wallpaper I wondered where Ives went to clean up, shave and get a uniform? I realize that the film makers don't have time to take care of these details, so we let them breeze over some things. Yet, I ponder... Maybe I got the time frame wrong and Ives got back to the fort months later and he had time to get back to some headquarters where he was assigned to the Fort.
I don't feel that Ives had any magic powers( e.g.. able to change from one character to another by snapping his fingers) other than the regeneration of his body so, when Boyd expected him to still have the shoulder wound I thought it was a short time. I do not have any experience with shoulder wounds so I don't know long it would take to heal.
Message 9:
From: DanzigerE2
Well, you have to think that Boyd took a long time to return to camp. We are not sure how long he is in the hole, looks like a few nights or how long it took him to walk back in his state, but later Ives says he found what was left of Reich, which means he was there *after* Boyd left. So, that option is out. There seems to be some time passage while Boyd is back at camp, when he has the eating Cleaves day dream and Knox is looking at his leg, but I hardly think that would have been more than a week. I don't know how long the army would let the Fort go without a Colonel, but I don't imagine that long. But, then again, a week is time enough for him to do this. He would have found Reich after Boyd left and by the time Boyd was back at camp, Ives could have been leaving that area for the headquarters, I can't guess who long it took him to get there, but it is possible. I don't know, but I think I'm over analyzing it now so I'm going to stop. Anyone else have any ideas?
I think a gunshot wound to the shoulder would be there for a very long time. I mean, years later you would still see the remains of at the least a scar. But the wound itself would be there for *at least* as long as that time passage, most likely way longer. Now, I'm not a doctor and I have never been shot, but I imagine it would be a while.
Message 10:
From: Virginia (vlgood@email.msn.com)
I think Colqhoun had about a month to transform himself into a respectable-looking Colonel. Here's my timetable: Boyd was in the pit with the corpse-formerly-known-as-Reich for two weeks. You can tell by the shots of the moon...full moon to new moon--two weeks. It took Col. Hart's rescue party about three days to travel to the cave, so I'd guess it took Boyd about five days to hobble home. He is a new man, I know, after dining on Reich, but he still has a broken leg and is in pain, so I have to assume it took him at least five days to stagger down the mountain in the snow. It was probably a day or so before he was sufficiently strong enough to relate his tale to Major Knox, who's now in command. He sent for Gen. Slauson, who is now stationed in San Miguel, even though early in the movie he states he wants Boyd as far from my company as possible. "I'm sending you to California." Oh well, I guess he got transferred. San Miguel is a day's ride (remember Cleaves and Martha going for supplies? "I want you back in three days." They have a day to arrive, a day to shop, and a day to get back). We're up to three weeks now since the fiasco at the cave. Then a day for Gen. Slauson and members of his company to ride back to Ft. Spencer, and three days or so for them to find the cave (no mean feat), search it, look for any sign of the missing soldiers, and get back to the fort. That's over another week...probably eight days at least. So Colqhoun has about a month to heal from his shoulder wound (which may have been superficial), heal Col. Hart, clean up the uniform in the cave and make himself presentable. It could be done by any self-respecting Weendigo.
Here's my theory on how Colqhoun became Colonel Ives, and of course, this is all speculation: Hart was with him in the cave, and Colqhoun asked him what would happen now that he (Hart) was MIA and presumed dead. Hart said, "I expect they'll assign an interim commander to Fort Spencer until they can find a permanent replacement for me." Hopefully, he also said something about there being no paperwork involved due to emergency conditions at the fort (Colonel Hart missing and all) Then Colqhoun and Hart staked out the trail to the fort, and when the interim commander came riding by, they nabbed him, ate him, and with renewed vigor, Colqhoun strolled in and introduced himself as Colonel Ives, the interim commander. No problem.
Message 11:
From: Dave
I have a question, an odd one in fact, by the end of the film, I got a sense that Ives had become more and more powerful with the more people he ate. So did Boyd, but he didn't eat nearly 1/10 as much as Ives had. So, my question is: Why did Ives die before Boyd?
Message 12:
From: Hidden Faith
It's not a very inventive answer, but here is my oppion..... Ives *had* to die first. Because if Boyd had died, Ives would have eaten him, escaped, Lured Gen. Slousen into his fold, eaten Martha and that annoying officer that tags along after Slousen, and it would leave it wide open for a sequel. (Which I would absolutely hate!)
Sometimes storyline logic must be overlooked when the end of the film is near. Besides, the last shot of the two of them locked forever in that bear trap like doomed lovers is my favorite, last scene of any movie.
Maybe Ives died before Boyd, because the sharp teeth claws from the bear trap pierced his back soo deep that he lost much more blood as a result of it, which made his death alot quicker than Boyd's! I also thought that Ives and Boyd being trapped together in a bear trap was symbolic of two doomed
lovers tragic end! It's just as tragic as Romeo and Juliet!
Message 13:
From: Virginia (vlgood@email.msn.com)
Why did Ives die before Boyd? You got me. I like the theory that since he was on the bottom, and had the weight of another man on top of him, the teeth of the trap dug into him more deeply. And, like all the great bad guys of the world, he died with a smile on his face. I would not have expected any less of him.
