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can be spread on good websites like FreeRepublic.com, but if someone like MAD
Magazine wants to use it, they really should hire me first. This is a listing for
Christians who are trying to live out the faith being saved by grace, not the legalistic
ravings of fundamentalists et al. Our goal is, as everything else a Christian is
supposed to do, devotional. However OUR PRIMARY
PURPOSE IS TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO ASSIST CHRISTIANS IN THE BUILDING UP THE KINGDOM
OF HEAVEN AGAINST THE TROUBLE THAT CLOUD AND OTHER FUNDAMENTALISTS ARE STIRRING
UP IN THEIR APOSTACY. And if it takes parody to do that, so be it! If you desire
to receive this type of material on a regular basis, let us know and we'll churn out
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WAY OF STRIFE LITERATURE PRESENTS DAVID CLOUD'S
INTERVARSITY CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP AND
ROME
March 4, 2000 (David W. Cloud, Fundamental
Baptist Information Service, 1701 Harns Rd., Oak Harbor, WA 98277,
fbns@wayoflife.org) - InterVarsity Christian Fellowship (IVCF), like Campus
Crusade for Christ and Youth for Christ, is dedicated to ecumenical
relationships with Rome.
Chalk this up as another one of Cloud's famous slanders.Darth Sidious sez: I spent four years with InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship. God led me to accepting Christ through this
organization. If they are so "dedicated to ecumenical relationships with Rome"
then our chapter was woefully negligent as I never swore allegiance to anything of
"Rome"... and if anything else, left educated from my fellow brothers and sisters
in Christ about the dangers of ecumenicalism.
In the early 1970s, InterVarsity Fellowship was already
working with Catholic coordinators in their Bible studies in Catholic
universities (Eternity, Nov. 1971).
The following report was made in 1971: "InterVarsity Christian Fellowship has been aided by the Catholic Alexian Brothers in operating a coffee house in Chicago’s hip ‘Old Town.’ Weekends, students from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and Wheaton College work at the coffee house and sleep free at the Brothers’ home nearby. Last summer thirty evangelical youth worked full time and were boarded by the Brothers for a nominal fifteen dollars per month each" (James Hefley, A Prejudiced Protestant Takes a New Look at the Catholic Church, p. 123).
Darth Sidious sez: ummmmm... some college kids find good room and board, and this proves... what, exactly?
IVCF has joined with all sorts of ecumenical rallies and conferences since the early 1970s. IVCF was represented on the Central Committee for Key ‘73 and was a participant of the North American Congress on the Holy Spirit & World Evangelization, both of which had strong Catholic participation (see descriptions at the beginning of Part III of this book). Catholic priest Thomas Welbers announced in the official Los Angeles diocese paper that a four-year dialogue between IVCF and the Catholic Campus Ministry has resulted in an agreement to seek "mutual understanding" and to "refrain from competition in seeking members" (Battle Cry, October 1992).
Cloud would have made quite a terrible lawyer, methinks... In 1994, InterVarsity Press came out with the
Handbook of Christian Apologetics by two Roman Catholic authors, Peter
Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli. Kreeft is a Catholic apologist who believes that Mary
will ultimately conquer Satan and who believes that even Muslims, Hindus, and
Buddhists will probably go to Heaven. Tacelli is a Jesuit priest and a professor
at Boston College. Why would InterVarsity choose Catholics to write such a book,
or why would they publish such a book by Catholics? That said, that I do have issues with the denomination, it must be said that as
far as can be determined, David Cloud slandered Peter Kreeft. I did an
extensive search for his words and found no such statement that Mary would
conquer Satan. He does believe in ecumenicalism as a solution for "the world's problems",
which I strongly disagree with (it sounds good on paper but it never works in practice,
folks). However, I could not find where he said that "Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists"
would get to Heaven. Nor could anyone else familiar with his work that I consulted with.
Do I agree with Kreeft on everything, even as a fellow "apologist" of sorts? Absolutely
not! There is little I do agree with the man about. However, that does not excuse him
to be slandered by someone.
Attacking Tacelli just for being Catholic is another famous hallmark of Cloud's. If
you haven't seen it before, you might as well get familiar with it.
In 1997, InterVarsity Press published
Reclaiming the Great Tradition: Evangelicals, Catholics and Orthodox in
Dialogue. It was edited by James Cutsinger and contained articles by Harold
O.J. Brown, Peter Kreeft, Richard Neuhaus, J.I. Packer, and others. The book is
a collection of material from an ecumenical dialogue held at Rose Hill College,
May 16-20, 1995. The objective of the dialogue was to answer the question: "How
can Protestants, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians talk to each
other so as together to speak with Christ’s mind to the modern world?" (p.
8). The only thing I can think of is, Cloud is using fear-mongering and
inflammatory language to scare people into something of a conspiracy mindset.
It also might help him sell a few copies of... ____________________________ The book EVANGELICALS AND ROME: THE
ECUMENICAL ONE-WORLD "CHURCH" (D.W. CLOUD) [ISBN 1-58318-058-3] is a
diligently researched volume which traces the journey to Rome by Evangelical
Christianity. Nothing more plainly demonstrates the ongoing fulfillment of
prophecies pertaining to end-time apostasy and the formation of a world-world
harlot "church." The Introduction extensively documents the history and
apostasy of Evangelicalism since the 1940s. Part 1 answers the
question "Is the Roman Catholic Church Changing?" It includes a study from
official Vatican II documents as well as from the New Catholic Catechism proving
that the RCC has not changed its heretical position on such things as the mass,
the papacy, Mary, purgatory, the priesthood, prayers to the dead, and the
sacraments. The author also shows that Vatican II and the New Catechism affirm
the blasphemous declarations of the Council of Trent. Part II covers
"Billy Graham and Rome," documenting Billy Graham's relationship with the
Roman Catholic Church from 1950 to present. Part III covers "Other
Influential Evangelical Leaders and Organizations and Rome," documenting
dozens of popular evangelical leaders and organizations, including Bill Bright
and Campus Crusade, Tony Campolo, Christianity Today, Christian Research
Institute, James Dobson, Chuck Colson, Elizabeth Elliot, Jerry Falwell, Fuller
Seminary, Franklin Graham, Carl Henry, Bill Hybels, Inter-Varsity Christian
Fellowship, D. James Kennedy, J.I. Packer, Luis Palau, Robert Schuller, John R.
Stott, Thomas Nelson, United Bible Societies, Jack Van Impe, Wheaton College,
World Magazine, World Vision, Wycliffe Bible Translators, and Youth for
Christ. Part IV deals with "The Southern Baptist Convention and
Rome." Part V deals with "The Charismatics and Rome." Dozens of
influential Charismatic leaders and organizations are documented, including 100
Huntley Street, 700 Club, AGLOW, Assemblies of God, Jamie Buckingham, Morris
Cerullo, David Yonggi Cho, Paul Crouch, Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship,
Kenneth Hagin, Michael Harper, Jack Hayford, Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard-Browne,
Rex Humbard, Kathryn Kuhlman, David Mainse, Melodyland Christian Center, Oral
Roberts, Pat Robertson, James Robison, Vinson Synan, Trinity Broadcasting
Network, Ralph Wilkerson, John Wimber, and Youth with a Mission. Part VI
deals with "Promise Keepers and Rome." Part VII deals with
"Contemporary Christian Music and Rome." Part VIII deals with the
subject of "Evangelical Catholics." This section looks at the phenomenon of
so-called evangelical Catholicism and charismatic Catholics. The book
"Evangelical Catholics" by Keith Fournier (foreword by Chuck Colson) is reviewed
and refuted from Scripture. Part IX looks at the many ways "Rome Denies
Salvation by Grace Alone." Part X deals with the recent agreement between
"Lutherans and Catholics on the Doctrine of Salvation by Grace." Part XI
looks at Evangelicals and Catholics Together II. Part XII answers the
question "Was Mother Teresa a True Christian?" Did she teach the people
under her care the true Gospel? This study contains an interview with a nun who
works with Mother Teresa’s Sisters of Charity. Read this amazing interview and
learn what this Calcutta-trained nun does to prepare Hindus for death. Part
XIII examines the charge that we don’t understand the Catholic Church. 352
pages, 7X8, perfect bound. $19.95 + $4 S/H. Way of Life Literature, 1701 XXXX
Rd., XXX XXXXXX, XX XXXXX. XXX-XXX-XXXX (voice), fbns@wayoflife.org (e-mail).
June 10, 2000 Way Of Strife Literature
Darth Sidious sez: this "evidence" wouldn't
hold up in any court of law. What kind of case is Cloud trying to delineate? Where
is it to be said so far that IV is about anything but the finished work of and the
salvation available from Jesus Christ?
Darth Sidious sez: let me say this right now:
I'm not a Catholic, nor ever will be. I don't hate them, in fact I have several
Catholic friends who I consider brothers and sisters in Christ. I just don't
agree with Catholicism as a definition for who I am in Christ, just as I don't
consider myself a Baptist or a Methodist, or whatever. Even in Catholicism there
are to be found disagreements with "canon". "If Mary were always a virgin,"
a Catholic friend studying to be a priest once told me, "that means Joseph is
the greatest saint who ever lived!"
Darth Sidious sez: at this
point, ask yourself, as an independently-thinking adult, this question: HOW
has David Cloud validated his claim that InterVarsity Christian Fellowship is
"dedicated" to a relationship with and promulgating the beliefs of "Rome"?
Where is the evidence, the REAL evidence? Have they put out any position papers
stating that all IV members should partake of Mass? Has IV said that
prayers are to be offered up to Mary or to saints? Cloud is so sure of
his bold claim, but how can any reasonable adult be convinced that any
of this is true?
Darth Sidious sez: notice how
HALF of his "special report" is given over to Cloud's self-shilling for his
cheesy wares? Not even the 11 o'clock news is usually THIS bad at building
something up... sheesh!
