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Elizabeth (Liz) Hazel is someone whose work I have followed for years. I "discovered" her in an
on-line Tarot e-group, and watched as she did a marvelous job of combining Tarot and
Astrology into something meaningful and fun. Her posts were an excellent addition to an e-
group that was filled with "heavy hitters" - and she always retained a sense of humor, a sense
of respect for the tools that she worked with, and a caring way of working/dealing with other
list members (which is never as easy as it sounds!).
Liz has always been willing to share her knowledge freely - which has benefited more people
than she will ever know! In her latest book, Tarot Decoded, Liz takes on the world of Tarot dignities - and does an excellent job of accessing the Secret Chiefs of the Tarot world, as well as their counterparts in the Astrological world.
It's time for me to be quiet and let Liz do the talking!
BC: Liz, I have long admired the way that you combine the worlds of Tarot and Astrology. How
did they come into your life, and how did you come to combine them in such an effective
manner?
LH: I started my study of tarot very early in life, and one of the first decks I acquired was the Crowley-Harris Thoth Tarot. The zodiacal symbols on the deck made it apparent that combining tarot and astrology was possible. I studied tarot and astrology on my own for about ten years, until I was lucky enough to find an astrology teacher, Dr. Rilma
Buckman, to whom the book is dedicated. I studied with Dr. Buckman for three
years, until I mastered natal chart interpretation and forecasting methods. But I
continue to read anything new available on astrology! By working with various
astrological attribution systems over the years, I concluded that the Golden Dawn
attributions worked best for me. Once I had a good grasp of doing charts and
following planetary transits, I had the tools for combining tarot and astrology. I've had
twenty years to combine tarot with the full benefit of astrological techniques, and every
year find fresh methods for discerning the interactions of the stars and cards. The
bottom line for any new technique is: does this method benerfit clients? The
techniques I share in "Tarot Decoded" have been well-tested in the trenches.
BC: How did you first begin to work with Tarot dignities? Do you have a
preference for one system over another, or do you apply the layers of systems
and correspondences as they show up in each individual reading? (i.e. One reading may be better geared towards numerological and astrological
dignities, while another may feature elemental dignities being thrown into
the mix.)
LH: I have been my own test guinea pig for thirty years, and have had enormous benefit
from tarot journals and the constant review of previous readings. Hindsight is always
20-20, of course, but the value of dignities became apparent when events were related
to the spreads that preceded them. Each reading defines its own dignity
relationships. Some spreads focus on numbers; others on suits; yet others on Major
Arcana relationships. It undoubtably seems overwhelming to beginners to review each
spread for the various possible dignity relationships, but with practice, it becomes
second nature to the reader to be able to size these up with a few quick scans of the
spread. Dignities also convey the relative importance of a spread to the client. A
spread that is focused on a particular element indicates a period of time dedicated to
working through the issues of a suit. But a spread heavily populated with planetary
(or even zodiacal) trump cards shows significant and possibly life-changing events for
the client.
BC: Do you find that the system of dignities that you use for interpretation are
dependent on the deck(s) that you are using? What are some of your favorite
Tarot decks?
LH: I use the same thorough dignity analysis method regardless of the deck in hand.
Decks that contradict the GD element assignments can be jarring in this respect, and
sometimes disappointing! I adore the artwork on the Nigel Jackson Tarot deck, but
the elements of the Wands and Swords are switched (i.e., Wands are air, and Swords
are fire). I try to accomodate this adjustment by spending more time looking at the
artwork on the cards. Although I didn't write much about card meanings and artwork
in the book, they are important criteria in any reading.
Favorite tarot decks include my first two decks, the Aquarian and the Thoth Tarots.
But I also like Norbert Loesche's Cosmic Tarot, the Tarot of Shadow and Light, the
New Hurley Tarot, the Goddess Tarot, the Renaissance Tarot by Brian Williams, the
Tarot of St. Petersburg, the Winged Spirit Tarot, and the World Spirit Tarot, just to
name a few! I recently acquired the new English edition of the Ananda Tarot, and it is
just fabulous. I look forward to developing an acquaintance with this deck.
BC: I am very interested in the scanning system that you use during a reading.
Can you tell us a little bit about how you developed this system? (One of the
reasons that I ask this question is because when I make up new spreads, or am
working with someone else's spread that is new to me, the energy flow of the
cards seems most important. I even trace the flow with my hands to see where it
takes me.)
LH: One part of my writing process was to read tarot spreads in slow motion, so I could
identify exactly what it is that I do when I read cards. This allowed me to identify and
categorize the various dignities listed in the book. The true breakthrough came when I
separated the court cards - they are a microcosm of nearly all the dignities possible in
the whole deck. But one thing that became apparent was the physical exercise of
reading a spread - how the eyes observe the cards and communicate these images to
the brain. I realized that I'd been using the "Directional Scanning" technique for years,
but hadn't realized how fundamental it was to reading the cards. I had never seen any
mention of the physical/optical techniques of card reading mentioned in tarot books,
so included a chapter about it in "Tarot Decoded." The logic for including a section on
Directional Scanning was that if you can look at a spread efficiently, you'll grasp the
dignities of the spread efficiently.
BC: I am also interested in your comments on the sacred geometry within each
spread, as well as the example that you showed using the Astrological spread,
and the areas defined within it. Can you tell us about how this adds another
layer to the interpretation?
LH: This is a good example of how astrological conventions can be merged with tarot
techniques. A significant first-glance method for viewing charts is to analyze sectors
and house relationships. The same technique translates well to tarot spreads by
designating segments, or quadrants, to relate to a special area of the client's life. The
quandrants described in the book are the same as those used by astrologers.
Geometry is an inherent quality of most symetrical spreads, easily related to the
qualities of geometric shapes - the circle, the square, and the triangle. The meanings
of the segments of these shapes is already standardized through astrology and
numerology - it is just a matter of syncretic application in tarot.
BC: "Tarot Decoded" seems to me to be the beginning of a series of books on
Tarot and Astrology. Is there a second book in the works?
LH: I am working on a manuscript about merging tarot and astrology techniques. Authors tend to do well when they write to their strengths! I don't know if this will amount to an actual series of books, but there is plenty to say about the subject of tarot-astrology. It might well take a few more books for me to exhaust the subject, at least from my own perspective.
BC: I understand that you also have a Tarot deck in the works (the "Vala Tarot").
Are you going to publish this deck (either privately or through a deck
publisher)?
LH: It is a finished deck, and was premiered at the 1999 International Tarot Congress in
Chicago to a rave response. I've been a bit diverted with writing for the past few years,
and have not really had the time or energy to continue submitting the deck to
publishers. No surprise - I'm picky. I want it produced in a particular way, with good
packaging. I also refuse to surrender my artwork to the publisher - that's an
outragiously ludicrous expectation on the part of a publisher. I'm sure I'll find a good
publisher eventually, once I get back to the submission grindstone, but the truth of the
matter is, tarot artists are the whipping boys of the art world.
BC: I have to ask this question - even though it has nothing to do with
interpreting the Tarot! You have shared some marvelous work on the Internet
involving Tarot, Astrology and ritual/ceremony. When and how did you become
interested in ritual/ceremony, and what part does it play in your life? (I ask
because it plays a major role in my life, as I am sure that it does for some of my
readers.)
LH: As a musician, I've been saturated with religious ceremony most of my life. It was a
natural transition to move to earth religion ceremonies. I've also had a life-long interest
in world religions and mythologies, as well as ethnic folk tales and fairy tales. Earth
religions emphasize the relationship of the earth to its seasons, which are sun-related
cycles. As an astrologer, I've been watching planetary cycles for decades, which has
resulted in a hypersensitivity to lunar and solar cycles (this is a mixed blessing,
especially at eclipse time!). The corresponding relationship between sabbats and the
sun's cycle make perfect sense to me, and celebrating these phases of the zodiacal
clock seemed like a return to a fundamental truth of faith: we belong to nature, nature
does not belong to us. After my first Saturn return, I also realized that fear, guilt, and
prejudice did not belong in a true spiritual practice.
Merging ceremony and astrology is not original by any means. Henry Cornelius
Agrippa relied heavily on specific planetary positions and relationships in his talisman
making techniques (see "Three Books of Occult Philosophy"). Choosing
astrologically-correct timing enhances any ceremony, spell, or making ritual. One
way that I use astrology is in making my magical potions for incense and perfumes
under specially selected planetary combinations. Bad planets make bad smells, and
are worth avoiding unless I'm concocting some sort of banishing potion, like my
"Wallopin Wolfbane" incense.
BC: What other irons does Liz Hazel have in the fire?
LH: As usual, there are plenty of irons! At the moment, I'm recording an original song.
We recorded the bass and various keyboard parts last week, and now I need to coral
the lead guitar player and drummer, and do the vocal tracks. I do session work in
studios, play in a band and have filled in on keyboards for other groups. I'm continue
to write articles for the ATA, as this is the best way I can support this important
group. Maybe someday they'll ask me to write a theme song for them! My garden
and house always need more attention than I actually have time for. And I got a
sweet little girl kitten in February, named Pixie for Pamela Colman Smith. I haven't
raised a kitten for many years, and it is such a joy to watch her grow. She just got
her adult fangs a couple of weeks ago, and is using her mother's fingers to practice
chewing (ouch!).
 Pixie in person! BC: Liz, this is your time. What would you like to say - about Tarot interpretation or about anything else that comes to your mind? LH: First, I'd like to thank you for providing this forum, and thank the readers for their kind attention. By way of advice to beginners - keep a tarot journal, and be diligent about reviewing the spreads you've copied into them. This is an incredible learning tool. Get past the fear of memorization - any skill worth having requires memorization, and the more you memorize, the better you get at it. Spend plenty of time practicing tarot on yourself before offering to read for others - far too many readers have been thrown into a trial by fire before they are truly prepared for the responsibilities that come with reading for others, especially on a professional level. The tarot is not only a tool, it can be a source of power. The same is true about astrology or any form of divination. The person who learns any of these divinatory or forecasting systems has an obligation to be rigorously honest about their motivation for learning and using these systems, and must develop some iron-clad rules and limits for their own well being. Any motivation other than humble service to others is going to lead to trouble - I've learned this through personal experience and by watching the careers of other readers. Learning is a life-long process. A life-long dedication to learning tarot and astrology is enhanced by being open to any new technique or method, and makes these occult arts a continual source of joy and fascination. I want to thank Liz for being willing to take the time to share both her time and her wisdom with us. She has opened up the world of Tarot to an unimaginable level with her work - I highly recommend that you at least look this book over. IMHO - It should be considered a Tarot resource and should be in every serious Tarot students library. A review of "Tarot Decoded" can be seen here.
Bonnie Cehovet
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