THE FANTAIL HOBBY/PAGE TWO * NEW LIST/ /THIS PAGE is DEDICATED TO JOE & DONNA SCHABERT, (MR & MRS FANTAIL) INDEEDY!!!

THE RECOGNITION PAGE./* text list below..../ABOVE IS PICTURE with the deeper, pocket and refinements suggested by TIM Kridera,SEE TEXT BOTTOM for more comparisons!/ MINN.as per txt .. below

• recognition* We will continue TO RECOGNIZE OUR GREAT FANCCIERS!
• GREGG & JOYCE DUFFY. also to: SCOTT AND JOAN SALTEE./ JOE AND CATHY YANCY...
• *(list additions) WE HAVE POSTED THE WHITE ARENA BELOW! KEEP AN EYE ON IT! jOHN ARENA WILL NOW DO A KVIDERA REFINEMENT TO THIS PICTURE!
• BELOW & LEFT IS THE ARENA WHITE RENDERING TAKEN FROM BOB POMMERS' CHAMPION//POMMER HAS HAD GREAT FANTAILS FOR MANY YEARS, ESPECIALLY THE RARE COLORS !! SALUTE'
• ALSO INVOLVED IN THE DEEPER HEAD SETTING: ARE THE FOLLOWING FANTAIL BREEDERS:
• JOE SCHABERT,THE IOWA FARMER,ROY WINKLES,BOB POMMER...AND OF COURSE, TIM KVIDERA, MINNOSOTA!
• JOHN ARENA WILL DO A , KVIDERA , ON THE WHITE BELOW;
• THE JOHN ARENA PICTURE, ABOVE IS NOW A STEP AHEAD OF THE ARENA, futura- 2000, ON MCK'S PAGE!
• THE IMPROVED HEAD POCKET, NOW, CONFORMS TO THE STANDARD , AS THE TEXT EXPLAINES HERE , AND, ON PAGE ONE!
• BOTTOM LINE, WE MADE GOOD-- BETTER, CLOSER TO WHAT THE FOREFATHERS LEFT US?
• JOHN IS STILL OUT THERE; IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING TO ADD, PLEASE EMAIL- MR POLLY & BOB VINCENT , OR, THE MAN HIMSELF..JOHN ARENA! WESTERN AUZZIE!
• PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, THAT, WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR HERE IS WHAT WE INTERPRET THE FOREFATHERS REQUIREMENTS IN THE STANDARD OF PERFECTION?
• ALSO, KEEP IN MIND, THAT THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE STANDARD OF PERFECTION /NOT/ SOMETHING WE HAVE IN OUR LOFTS.
• IT IS WHAT WE WILL ALL SHOOT FOR ? ITS CLEARITY,ITS BEAUTY, IT'S CREATIVITY; IS WHAT THIS HOBBY IS ALL ABOUT?
• OUR BREEDERS, OUR CREATORS,OUR NOVICE,OUR YOUNG PEOPLE; CAN EASILY SEE WHAT THE IDEAL FANTAIL SHOULD BE? (WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WHAT YOU SEE IS A COMPLICATED MIXTURE OF PIECES OF GENOME, WHICH ARE ALL INTERDEPENDENT ON EACH OTHER.
• AND, FURTHER, THAT PICKING THE BEST IN THE SHOW PENS IS NOT A CLEAR CUT VISION OF HOW TO BREED TOWARD THIS IDEAL! WE MUST THOUGHLY UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A CHEMICAL & A PHYSICAL MAKE UP OF NATURE;
• WHICH FOLLOWS THE LAWS OF GENETICS;WHICH, IS CERTAINLY NOT ALWAYS CLEAR? IE ENVIRONMENT DOES PLAY A ROLE!
• IT CAN, IN TIME , MAKE CHANGES OCCUR IN THE GENETICS OF INHERITANCE?
• HERE, WE CAN SAY THAT CONDITIONING,TRAINING,HANDLING,HEAT, COLD, WIND,AND THE MANAGEMENT OF THESE ENVIRIONMENTAL ELEMENTS ARE ALL CRUCIAL TO OUR SUCESSES.OR FAILURES!
• NUTRITION IS, OF COURSE ,PARAMONT; IT LEADS TO A HEALTH , THAT RESISTS ALL VARIATIONS/FLUCTUATIONS IN THE WEATHER AND THE ENVIRONMENT. STILL, WE CANNOT ALLOW THE INBREEDING COEFICIENT TO BECOME TOO HIGH! THIS WILL SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN? IE REPRODUCTION ALL BUT, STOPS ! THE SURVIVORS ARE NOT GOOD BREEDERS, BUT IF THEY ARE? YOU MIGHT CONTINUE ON WITH YOUR GOOD WORK ; ALAS, IT SELDOM PRODUCES SUCH INDIVIDUALS?
• IF WE COULD GO AHEAD WITH EACH GENERATION, THEN WE COULD BE THERE TOMORROW! MAYBE THIS IS WHY WE HOLD ON TO PREPOTENT INDIVIDUALS UNTIL THEY PASS ON, NOT TOO WORRY ABOUT TOO MUCH OF 'ITS' BLOOD RUNNING WITHIN? THE TRICK IS TO MATE ' IT' TO MANY SEMIRELATED INDIVIDUALS AND STUDY WHAT THEY PRODUCE.
• WE HAVE ALWAYS SAID:
• THIS IS THE LAST OF IT! IT HAS COME TIME TO BREED THEM! AND SHOW ?
• WE INVITE YOU ALL TO THE NATIONAL YOUNG BIRD SHOW HELD IN LOUISVILLE , KENTUCKY IN OCTOBER 2000. THE JUDGE WILL BE THE CHAIRMAN, AND THE MASTER: HIS HONOR, MR ROBERT(BOB) VINCENT, PHOENIX, ARIZONA. YOU ALL COME. WE, BE DOWN , & WE BE GONE!!

My Favorite Web sites

Angelfire Home Pages
JIM & ELAINE ERVIN HOMEPAGES,FORTE PAYNE ALABAMA
DYNAMIC'S LOFTS', PAUL POLLY HOME PAGES/ A BREEDER FOR 41 YEARS, AND NOW A GENEPOOLER!!
MCK ON NETSCAPE/NO NEW PICTURES IN 1999. 2000 HOPEFUL....STILL NO BARLESS OR ORIENTAL FRILL COLOREDFANTAILS

COMPARISON of DEEPER HEAD SET verses the FUTURA 2000

IF we go to the NATIONAL BOARD PAGE on NETSCAPE(from National BOARD on ANGELFIRE) We can see what some are predicting will happen with the deeper head setting, seen ?? in above pix, by J Arena.For an exaggerated view of what deeper head pocket might do in the breeding pens..go to National Board on fantails on NETSCAPE. this was done by pixel increase on width dimension!Still, so far, in our own breeding, and as well, the topper Champions at present , are small; still, lack body depth. Note that with the deeper pocket, not only the scanner, but real life breeding yields the same thing? A LOOK of a loss of body depth! At this point in time, a 'quest' for the POLLY/Vincent/Mck Visual,(THE FUTURA 2000) and the current breeding results places us in a can not do situation? OR, have not done so far? this might change tomorrow? But, we must hold ALL OTHER REQUIREMENTS define in the FUTURA 2000!! It is my understanding, that presently , the above mentioned are with the FUTURA 2000. BUT, we will endeavor to get the deeper looking pocket after we approach the FUTURA 2000? Maybe help me out here...maybe the titans, coupled with Mods times 4 can do it? Maybe it will take them lark tails and Mod number 5 infusion?

We will seese and desist, at this time. Because, it is a put up or shut up situation! And, We , cannot, put up at this time..so we accept the FUTURA 2000 and keep the deeper pocket in mind; along with that herendous 25mm plus of meat & feather in front, and under the wing lines! MCK Friday NIGHT CHAT brought a tenative plan by Vincent& Polly to have John Arena, Western Australia to make improvements to the head pocket. These changes will reflect a deeper pocket, but, will " not" change the ball shape of body, allows for a hollow back; which will create a head position slightly forward/into that hollow back; but also eliminating the appearance that the head is setting back on the tail. To, achieve this the tail angle and rump will be raised to create the maximum top tail , as defiened in the General Requirements of the Present Fantail Standard. (Please see above/top/ center by John Arena..OK..it is having your cake & eating it TOO??) { We think, that anything we can visulize in 'MINDS EYE', can be bred in meat & feather!!) O'Dell, says here it it BOYS, now let'us see who will come the closest in the Melennium?}

We really like what Kvidera has issued here. And, we think that Aren's rendering(translation of englist) is fantastic!!)

A little reminder, that O'Dell has had Six Champions at the NYBS in Louisville, Kentucky. That, show this year is in OCTOBER XX,2000! THe Judge will be the Master-mind, The master breeder& CHAIRMAN of the BOARD: MR BOB VINCENT ARIZONA...

Permissions has been granted to the Genepoole to post a picture of the John Arena white, a mirror image of a 'white' FUTURA! (AND the original of BOB POMMER, CANADA) See above left, the silvery white!!

You will also take notice of the AUSTRALIAN LINKS on the POLLY PAGE, DYNAMICS LOFTS...

The concerns about the deeper pocket, and 30mm of meat and feather to the front, from the buried wing lines and butt; will, now be eliminated from the FUTURA 2000 DRAWING.

The drawing should present what we would like to 'create'! It is now in the Breeders hands to move in this direction.

The Genepoole(POLLY,MCK,& ERVIN,BRONSON,R SMITH,B Anderson,P McColeman) are all working , and have been; on the creation of "rare colored fantails". To this end, JIM ERVIN, has created , in 'Minds' EYE' several phenominal ideas. That of "ATTITUDE"( see definetion on first Hobby page)

Mr Ervin has been working behind the scenes, as well, Paul McColeman(who made a family of browns from modena crosses.Ervin made the faded browns, as well bowns in a separate family. Ralph Smith has made a nes family of reduced, because of a weakness, linked? to the reduced color.

It is ERVIN's Latest Idea, that has us most excited!! That we have accidently added some pieces from the outcrosses, that will place us in a POSITION to create this FUTURA 2000 image in 'meat & feather' in our breeding programs. THE GENEPOOLE is working to this end!

Paul POLLY is making crosses to understand what the Modena breed can add to the present fantail genome. (very carefully, we might add!!) But, some startling youngsters have already appeared. Polly, will advance quickly for two reasons: One: He has Fantails with several Modena infusions to cross to the modtails(MOTAILS)He will also study the F1, F2, and F3 infusions...

Mr Polly also, has the 'huge' tail gene(s) to use in the first crosses. In three years Polly, will be untouchable for a small fantail, with large tail and undercarriage!!! Mr, Polly , however, is supported by the National Genepool.

Further, the idea that the Genepoole is in a position to create the FUTURA; NOT in 100 years, but, in the melennium, is what all the excitment is all about.

The fact, that, THE GENEPOOLE can run 'Quad' genome with the type requirements of both fantail and Modtail,(LarK,Angeltails are right behind to back up the 'MODS) has become the top priority! Even over Coloration? But, the coloration is already set, along with a rather interesting fantail genotype! IE COMPETATIVE SHOW FANTAILS.

There is more? Bob Vincent has dedicated of himself to the Fancy, IN every way!THE GENEPOOLE will add MR BOB VINCENT to the National Genepoole, Today..For his contribution to the developement on the brown fantail. NOT, with an outcross, but, with an inspiring, and interesting genotype he has CREATED within his Bar family(and otherwise!)

The line we are discussing is the "TITANS". THE GENEPOOLE, will also add this TITAN GENOME to the QUADS. We have never worked with so much power in the GENOME.!

Mr Paul Polly, has requested John Arena to do several 'renderings' of a deeper head pocket. See posted some opinions of what we can expect in the breeding pens with a deeper head setting!

I don't feel we can make a call, set in granite, at this time..on deeper head pocket, nor the meat AND feather Dimension that shows in front of the wing/below as well, at this time? Nor do we want to?

We only want everybody to feel confortable with the 'over-all-Visual', as Polly defines it! I don't feel that we can critically address the small size at this time? but, if we did; we might say, that: The smallest looking fantail, that still pocesses' the other qualities; which are: body approaching roundness, first, or, at the same time; as we can see a proper 'wide' (defined on the Polly Article page by Vincent) set legs..! The legs 'MUST' be longer than those seen frequently on those shown today, that look small. These small 'lookers' seldom have proper legs, length included. As Well, these small ones presently, although they give us a proper visual(if you don't look closely at the legs/or at the short 'COUPLED' effects on the visual) even with some extremes!As a manipulated tail pocket/tail, to get head room.These are short coupled; they are an abomination in the breeding pen; and can destroy years of hard work! THEY are, indeed "up types"!

Any tendency to 'short couple' is considered the worst fault in breeding of the 'NEW TYPE FANTAIL'!(IF)We use them, as we would use a Mod cross...very carefully!

We have seen deep head pockets on the up types..Now, can we perpitrate a similar deeper pocket on the New types, like FUTURA 2000? Probably so, but it won't ever be DEEPER than the top chest, and rump setting allow. "TOP TAIL" is a must in the Standard.. A properly set, higher rump, makes the old deep pocket prohibitive! We fully agree with the disertation from Paul Polly & bVincent.(This is also POSTED)

The hollow back is , however a plus, and should be very possible. This feature alone, will allow the head to come down to set, as called for...BUT, FORWARD, as well ,into this hollow back..This would take the 'on the tail look' away; and, WE think this is now ready to set in CONCRETE? "THE DEEPEST possible head-setting, without the appearance of struggling for position of head or legs! (IE 'BREAKING UP') HERE, WE FIND THE PROBLEMS WITH 'SHORT COUPLED INDIVIDUALS'? ALL.........small, low , looking UP TYPES are short coupled. They come from other shallow depth individuals and the "STRING" was lost several generations prior, when all of the depth loss, changed the STRING..and so: Short coupled.WHY for, What? TO GIVE THE ILLUSION OF SMALL!! But, the over all Visual is great! WE want the Futura to show this same "VISUAL" with the other Fantail Qualities, as outlined in the present STAND of PERFECTION.

It is bad enough that they break apart into some very ugly pieces...which we simply cull..I ask You ,Why? I also ask you, why you would settle for more of the same PROBLEMS with pieces ,we definetly do not need. McK

THE NATIONAL BOARD ON FANTAILS