Joey Ramone and The Offspring's Dexter Holland Hold a Punk Summit

No matter how big a star you are, you don't lose your musical heroes. The Offspring's Dexter Holland, a big Ramones fan, as well as lead vocalist of one of rock's most commercially successful acts, can attest to that.

Despite being out on the road in support of Offspring's wildly popular Americana, Holland was more than happy to take time out to interview Joey Ramone, the former frontman for the legendary Ramones.

As the recently released Hey Ho Let's Go – Anthology reminds us once again that the Ramones - from "Blitzkrieg Bop" and "Sheena is a Punk Rocker" to "Teenage Lobotomy" and "The KKK Took My Baby Away" - founded the union of punk and pop that such bands as the Offspring and Green Day have made so popular in the '90s.

Ramone and Holland talked about everything from music to the state of today's youth in this revealing two-part interview.

Joey Ramone: So, that version of "[I Wanna Be] Sedated," it's great.

Dexter Holland: Thanks a lot. Of course we love the song and didn't know how to approach it; I didn't want to try to twist it into something else, so we just did it more or less faithfully. It seemed like it would work best that way.

I took some time there and re-listened to some of your records and watched a long-form video of you guys. One of the things that hit me was how many songs there were. Of course, people know the real familiar ones, like "Sedated," but you watch this video, and you're like, "Oh my God"; it was hit after hit after hit. Do you think maybe that people don't realize what a long career you guys really had?

Ramone: Yeah, I think so, except for the real diehard fans. But I feel a lot of people, in more of a general sense, know about some of the songs. That's definitely the case.

Holland: Do you ever feel like you were one of those bands that never got their fair shake?

Ramone: Yeah, we never did get a fair shake. We were always like the underdogs. We kind of created something just because we were out to amuse ourselves, and we came up with something cool, and it was kind of a blueprint for everything else to follow.

"When we came out we were like aliens; it was us and Kansas, us and Toto. People were like, 'Who are these freaks?'" - Ramone

Holland: It really was.

Ramone: It's kind of exciting now with the bands like you guys. You guys got it right from the start, but I guess when we started out it was us and disco and us and corporate rock. Things were totally different back in the dark ages; it was like starting from scratch.

Holland: One of the things that was real groundbreaking was that you were completely different from what else was going on at the time.

Ramone: We stood alone, we were our own island. When we came out we were like aliens; it was us and Kansas, us and Toto. People were like, "Who are these freaks?"

Holland: I think though, because you guys always stayed the underdogs, it gives you that much more of a cult or legendary status.

Ramone: Yeah. We were always purists at heart. We retained our vision; we knew exactly what we wanted to do and retained that. If anything, I feel like we played our own sound and style, and we never sold out or compromised ourselves. That's something that few people can really say for themselves.

Holland: From what I understand, the Sex Pistols saw you guys before they got started.

Ramone: Malcolm McLaren was hanging out in New York, back in '74-'75; he was trying to salvage the New York Dolls' career at the very end, and he'd be hanging out at CBGB's when we were playing and Richard Hell [was playing]. He copped all the ideas he got from us and Hell, as far as a way to dress, a way to play. That's where all the ideas came from.

Holland: There was something kind of in your face and aggressive about it.

Ramone: We were inspired by the Stooges; they were one of many influences. We liked the MC5, we liked the NY Dolls, and all that stuff. But what we were doing was our own thing, it was a combination of influences that you absorbed, but the output was you.

Holland: Yeah, I was reading something about you guys that said a lot of your sound came from the '60s pop.

Ramone: We liked a lot of stuff. Our tastes were really broad. To me the '60s were probably the most influential time in the history of rock & roll because there were so many sounds and styles. It was so eclectic then.

Holland: What's cool about the '60s as well is the word pop didn't have the same negative connotation it tends to today. Phil Spector or Motown, which we would consider pop, was really classic stuff. It was popular music, but it was really great.

Ramone: Yeah, like listening to the Who or something like that, that was pop. It was pop but it was really exciting at the same time.

Holland: I still love listening to all that stuff. I admire the songwriting of it. When you look to the disco era, or even a lot of stuff today, dance music in particular, there isn't the real craftsmanship in songs that you found in the '60s, and I think that was a real important part of your music.

Ramone: It was more impassioned. When people got into music, especially in the '60s and '50s, it was more like a subcultural thing, like music, art, rock & roll. There was a certain person that got into it, and it was for the love of it. Today, it's all just generalized.

You've got to be really adventurous to find anything good, because everything has gotten kind of corporate again, like with MTV. MTV always pushed that corporate stuff. It's not really about guts and challenges and taking a dare.

Holland: Even beyond the style, or the validity of what's coming out now, I think kids are overwhelmed by so [many] media choices - "Do I get on the Internet or do I play Nintendo or do I listen to a record?" Me personally, I always listen to records; that's what I like to do. And I think it's a shame kids grow up without as much appreciation for music.

Ramone: For me, listening to music was always kind of a lifeblood. A personal thing was listening to the radio, and today everything is just for the money. It's rare that you find people that are really making great music.

Holland: Do you think it's more rare today, in 1999, than it was 10 years ago? Or has it just always been hard to find?

Ramone: Well, it goes through cycles. Right now, there's a handful of artists really doing anything that is original or fresh or fun. Like you guys are fun, Green Day is fun, but people get too ego'd out. Or they just kill themselves or whatever it is. I thought Nirvana was a great band; I remember at the time I thought, "Wow, finally somebody good around." And that didn't last too long.

"This is what I hate about a lot of journalists; they'll say, 'Who do you hate?' They just want to get some dirt." – Holland

Holland: I think that's really exciting to see a band come along and do that kind of thing. That's why I could never understand why you see all these bands on the charts who tend to pick on each other a lot. When I see a band, especially a rock band, because there's so much pop crap around, do good, I want to pat them on the shoulder and say, "Hey, way to go." You don't see that very much.

Ramone: I like Jane's Addiction. There's a handful of talented people out there that are into it for the right reasons and that know how to make it fun and cool. And then there's bands like … I don't know, the list goes on [they both laugh].

Holland: No, I won't try and bait you. This is what I hate about a lot of journalists, they'll say, "Who do you hate?" They just want to get some dirt; they want to get you started on something.

Ramone: A lot of times though, there's a band that you just don't like, but then you meet them, and usually they're pretty nice people. It always seems as though the bands that I don't like are nice people, and usually the bands I like are real assholes.

Edited by Steve Baltin, from CDNow

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