1) Simon, called Peter = a manNot only was the mission to the Twelve a limited one focused only on the "lost sheep of Israel" (Mt 10:6), but also Jesus did not choose women to fill this role - He chose men. The Friends & Workers are being selectively literal in their interpretation of Mark 6:7 because they ignore the fact that nowhere in Scripture did Jesus send forth women to travel preaching two by two. Basically, this argument fails the test of the scholastic dictum: qui nimis probat, nihil probat, or "he who proves too much, proves nothing".
2) Andrew, his brother = a man
3) James, son of Zebedee = a man
4) John, his brother = a man
5) Philip = a man
6) Bartholomew = a man
7) Thomas = a man
8) Matthew the publican = a man
9) James, son of Alphaeus = a man
10) Lebbaeus, surnamed Thaddaeus = a man
11) Simon the Canaanite = a man
12) Judas Iscariot = a man
"And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren."Nate tries to claim that this proves that women preached, but it does nothing of the sort. The passage only says that the women were in one accord in prayers and supplications, not that they went out preaching two by two. Philippians 4:6 says, "Be nothing solicitous; but in everything, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God." This is the universal directive to all believers as part of the community of worship, so offering prayers and supplications is NOT the same as two celibate women traveling in a pair as part of homeless, itinerant ministry instituted by Christ - there is a big difference between the two. Furthermore, whom does Peter address on the subject of replacing Judas? He talks to the men of the group, saying "My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand...." (Acts 1:15). Scripture shows quite clearly that when Peter addressed the issue of replacing Judas, he directed his statements to the men of the group, not the women.
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."Nate tries to claim that those speaking in tongues at Pentecost included women; however, this is not true either. Luke, the writer of Acts, had already shifted attention away from the 120 men and women gathered together to focus on the Twelve, as seen in Acts 1:26 where they find a replacement for the Apostle Judas (a man). After casting lots, Matthias (a man) is selected to replace the man who abandoned his apostolic call, even though there were plenty of capable women available. In fact, Mary the Mother of Jesus was there, but even she was not considered for the position.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus".Although Nate quotes this passage without any supporting argument at all, some people will quote this passage in Galatians as if it somehow proves that men and women are seen without distinction, and they are, but not in terms of church leadership roles! This passage is talking about justification of our souls through faith, not the gender-specific duties of men and women in the church community because, if anything, there is a male-oriented leadership. By this I mean that the New Testament is full of references to spiritual fatherhood; for example, Stephen called the Jewish leaders "father" (Acts 7:2), as Paul also calls Jerusalem Jews "father" (Acts 21:40, 22:1) and Abraham the "father of us all" (Rom 4:16-17). Paul told the Corinthians that "I became your father in Christ through the gospel" (1 Cor 4:14-15) and refers to Timothy as "my true child in the faith" (1 Tim 1:2). The writers of Hebrews tells us that we have "earthly fathers" to discipline us (Heb 12:7-9). In fact, Abraham's name literally means "father of all nations", and this spiritual fatherhood was to continue in the New Testament by Christ choosing 12 men as His apostles and by His apostles ordaining and appointing men to the office of bishop or priest (Titus 1:5). So, to try to apply this to women in the church is to yank the verse completely out of context.
"Then Peter began to speak: 'I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear Him and do what is right."Here Nate completely ignores the surrounding context and gives another irrelevant passage having nothing to do with either men or women in leadership positions. In Acts 10 Peter had received the vision from God that the Gentiles would be allowed into the church. Given the traditional disparaging view Jews had of Gentiles, this was a monumental development in the early church, so what Peter was doing was explaining that the revelation of God's choice of Israel to be His people did not mean that He withheld that divine favor from other people (non-Jews). This conversation had NOTHING do with the women in ministry - a fact which should be obvious to even a casual reader who notices that Peter is speaking of nations, not individual gender issues.
"...Peter went to the house of Mary, the mother of John whose other name was Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying."Some of Nate's proof-texts prove too much, but this one proves too little. All this passage shows is that after his miraculous release from prison, Peter went to the house of Mary, where others were meeting and praying. Since Christians were persecuted for their faiths, they would often meet secretly in homes - in this case a woman's home. The passage says absolutely nothing about women workers traveling two by two (note also the mere fact that people met at Mary's house shows that she was not a homeless female ministers like the women workers of today).
"Phoebe our sister, which is the Servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: that ye Receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in Whatsoever business she hath need of you. For she has been a succorer (help) of many and of myself also."Nate understandably wants to try to make Paul's words to Timothy in 1 Tim 2:11 mean something other than what they actually do, so he mentions Phoebe and others as counterexamples. However, it should be noted that Phoebe is only described as a helper - this passage says that Phoebe was a help to Paul as well as others. The Greek term in this passage for "helper" is sunergos, which Paul also used to describe Urbanus (Rom 16:9) and Timotheus (Rom 16:21) and Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas (Phm 1:24), all of whom were men. It is an word that is too generic to be anachronistically designated the exact same meaning by the Friends & Workers, 1800 years after the fact, to mean "Worker" with a capital "W" . Instead, it is to be used to convey the message of shared faith, as in 3 John 1:8 "We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers (sunergos) to the truth." (see also 2 Cor 8:23, 1 Cor 3:9).
"Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord.""Labouring in the Lord" does not mean that they were given authority to travel two by two and preach in church. The Greek word here in Romans 16:12 is kopiao, which in this case is used by Paul merely to refer to "labour with much effort" (see 1 Tim 4:10, 2 Tim 2:6, Eph 4:28, 1 Cor 4:12). However, when kopiao is specifically applied to leaders in the church, he refers to himself (Col 1:29, Phil 2:16, Gal 4:11, 1 Cor 15:10), himself and Timothy (1 Tim 4:10), or the elders of the church (1 Tim 5:17). The common denominator is that when Paul uses kopiao in leadership terms, he always involved men, not women. Note also that with respect to the elders, he uses kopiao in a specific way: "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." In other words, these men were not just "labouring in the Lord" in the general sense like Tryphena and Tryphosa, but labouring "in word and doctrine". The only time Paul writes of labouring in word and doctrine, i.e. teaching authority, it pertains to the elders of the church. Furthermore, when Paul lists Timothy as a "fellow labourer", he further qualifies his title with the Greek term diakonos, i.e., deacon. He uses similar language in Colossians 4:7, "All my state shall Tychicus declare unto you, who is a beloved brother, and a faithful minister (diakonos) and fellow servant in the Lord" and again in Ephesians 6:21, "But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister (diakonos) in the Lord, shall make known to you all things".
"As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says..."There are clear directives from Paul outlining the role of women, but when it comes to Paul's statement to Timothy, Nate says in the beginning of his article that "Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the Congregation who were out of ORDER. With respect to 1 Cor 14:34-35, he says later that "we must interpret those verse [sic] in the light what we have established--that there were women in leadership positions of the church. Obviously Paul is NOT writing to them. He MUST be addressing another issue entirely -- the women who were LOUD and UNRULY during the service, causing DISORDER and CONFUSION." He then says that "When Paul wrote to the Corinthians, he was dealing with a church that was very disorderly in their service. Much of the letter was spending Correcting excesses and abuses. Some of these pertained to women in particular and some were to the entire church. Paul is not being Prejudiced against Women when he instructs the Corinthian women to keep silent."
"A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet."Nate correctly identifies that "a careful reader becomes aware that many severe HERESIES and False teachings were being dealt with. We can draw a conclusion here that many of the proponents and victims of the false teachings were WOMEN.". While it is indeed true that Ephesus, (where Timothy was appointed bishop) was the primary site where the goddess Diana was being worshipped, his conclusion that the false teachers were women is unsubstantiated. This is an example of the logical fallacy called a non sequitur which means "it does not follow"; in other words, just because Diana (transliterated as Artemis) was a female goddess, it does not mean that the false teachers were also female. And again, Paul states unequivocably that women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men in church - he does not stipulate that this only applies to women teaching pagan practices. Nate only offers conjecture and logical fallacy.
"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me"This passage proves only that Junia was well-known and respected among the apostles - it does not prove that she herself was an apostle, nor does it say anything about her teaching capacity within the church. Paul applied the terms like "fellow labourers", etc equally to women AND men, but they are merely descriptors of action, not office. The office of church leader was through appointment, including Paul: "And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and and apostle" (1 Tim 2:7); and nowhere in Scripture are women appointed to positions of leadership - nowhere are women called elders or bishops or apostles. In contrast, we see the process of establishing male leadership in "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee." (Titus 1:5) The Greek word kathistemi is the same word used to describe the appointment of men in Acts 6:3:"Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint (kathistemi) over this business."
"Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved. I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life."Again, labouring with Paul in the gospel does not specifically prove that they were given preaching privileges, and it most certainly does not say that they traveled in pairs from town to town. Even the deacon Philip could not perform certain duties; for example, he had to wait for Peter and John to come from Jerusalem to impart the Holy Spirit by the imposition of hands (Acts 8, 14-17). While women could prophesy, they could not preach and teach in church; this responsibility was reserved for the men. Just as the office of the Old Testament priesthood was limited to males (Lev 8:1-36), so too was the New Testament priesthood, as Paul wrote that he received from God the "priestly duty" of proclaiming the gospel, saying, "I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God..." (Rom 15:15-16)
Old Testament High Priest = Aaron (Ex 31:30) Ministerial Priests = appointed men (Ex 28:21) Universal Priesthood = people of Israel (Ex 19:6) |
New Testament High Priest = Jesus (Heb 3:1) Ministerial Priests = appointed men (Rom 15:16) Universal Priesthood = all Christians (1 Peter 2:5,9) |
"Paul's company departed and came unto Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven, and abode with him, and the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy."The gift of prophesy was not restricted to men only, as seen in both the Old Testament (Miriam in Ex 15:20, for example) and the New Testament (Anna in Luke 2:36). There is actually ample biblical evidence that women did prophesy; however, this does not mean that women were in positions of authority to lead Sunday Morning Meeting or speak at Convention. This passage proves nothing.
"It is not permitted to a woman to speak in the church; but neither is it permitted her to teach, nor to baptize, nor to offer the eucharist, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say in any sacerdotal [priestly] office." (On the Veiling of Virgins)As the role of deacon for men became more fully defined, the church began to also explicitly define roles for females. By 441 A.D., The Council of Orange stated: "Let no one proceed to the ordination of deaconesses anymore." (canon 26) and again in 517 A.D. at the Council of Epaon: "We abrogate completely in the entire kingdom the consecration of widows who are named deaconesses." (canon 21). So, it is true that there "deaconesses" in the early churh, but it remains unclear what they actually did.
"Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function." (Rom 12:4)