| Reviews | Interviews |
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| Reviews | Interviews |
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Refused have recently found minor success with their latest and last offering, The Shape of Punk to Come. This album is certainly not your average hardcore release and will definitely appeal to a much larger crowd. With this release, Refused have combined many different genres of music and put out an excellent record. As opposed to the more straightforward hardcore approach found on past Refused albums, The Shape of Punk to Come crosses over into punk, metal, and even jazz and techno while still retaining glimpses of hardcore. The band remains politically-motivated, as shown through the lyrics of virtually every song and the linear notes. It is truly unfortunate Refused disbanded as this album was released, but at least they left us with great and innovative music as is demonstrated on The Shape of Punk to Come.
- Jason Isabel
Released 1998 on
Epitaph Records
Track Listing:
01. Worms of the Senses/Faculties of the Skull
02. Liberation Frequency
03. The Deadly Rythm
04. Summerholidays Vs. Punkroutine
05. Bruitist Pome #5
06. New Noise
07. The Refused Party Program
08. Protest Song '68
09. Refused are Fuckin Dead
10. The Shape of Punk to Come
11. Tannhauser/Derive
12. The Apollo Programme Was a Hoax
Dennis Lyxzen -
Vocals
Jon Brannstrom - Guitar
Kristofer Steen - Bass
David Sandstrom - Drums
Slave- We wanted to start the interview by
talking about some Refused related topics and then move on and
talk about Dennis. So hopefully this will be more of an interview
with Dennis, rather than a Refused interview.
Dennis-That would be nice. .
The first question I wanted to ask is about
what happened when your record was put out on Epitaph, after they
bought out your label. If you would, talk about music as an art
form and what happens when you lose control of the art you're
creating. .
-First of all, once you get into the music industry with the idea
that you want to reach out to people with your music, or when you
decide somewhere along the line that you want to go outside the
small realm of do-it-yourself 7"s, your art becomes
commodity. It was a weird thing when the Epitaph thing happened,
because it was really unexpected. Burning Heart were a semi-big
label, and working with them was weird for us anyway. Then when
they got sold to Epitaph we didn't know what to think of it. It
was sort of like "OK, now we're on Epitaph... I guess."
I don't really think it affected what we were saying or doing
with our music. It is a weird thing though, because a label like
Epitaph doesn't really know what we're talking about. Once you
get into a situation where you're working with a label that has
very little idea about the political ideas you're talking about,
it tends to become a little weird. Also, the crowd that Epitaph
focuses on is not the sort of crowd that has the political ideas
that Refused talks about embedded naturally into their scene, and
especially compared to the other punk rock scenes around. .
On the same note, there's a rumor that
Refused music appeared during a Burger King commercial in
Germany. .
-It wasn't really a Burger King commercial. German MTV did a show
during the elections in Germany, probably to get kids interested
in voting in the election. Burger King sponsored the TV show, and
somehow the intro to New Noise ended up on that show. It was
pretty fucked up. We heard about that about the same time we were
breaking up, and we were wondering what we should do about it. No
one really new anything we could do, so we just decided
"that sucks" and didn't do anything about it. There
wasn't much else we could do about that situation. .
I saw a video for New Noise when I was in
Europe. I'm curious if that was intended for MTV, or something
you did for other reasons? .
-Yeah, it's one of those things when you get caught up in the
"rock industry" or whatever. People make videos, and we
never thought about it as a thing like that. I mean it's sort of
fun to make a video actually. You get to goof around and someone
makes a short movie about what you're doing. It is kind of funny,
but we never thought of it as anything that was intended to be on
MTV. When they showed the video on MTV in Germany a friend of
mine told me that we were on MTV everyday. I was surprised
because that was never intended to happen. .
My next question is about the way Refused
presented themselves, with language and an appearance that came
across as fashionable and a little pretentious. Just by watching
you perform and looking at your records it seemed to be an
important part of the band. Basically I was wondering why it was
important to come across that way? .
-A lot of it is just because that is the way I talk, and even
more so with the way I write. It has a lot to do with empowering
yourself to learn a language so you can define the world around
you. A lot of times people think it's ugly, or a bad thing when
you use a language that they don't understanding. I really feel
like it's about empowering yourself and taking control of your
language. I've always had a Situationist fascination for
language. One other aspect is that I've been singing punk rock
lyrics for a good amount of years and I just wanted to do
something different. I wanted to try a new approach, and it came
really natural because of the literature I was reading and the
kinds of things I was in to. .
When you were in the U.S. you had mentioned
wanting to do solo acoustic performance, are you doing that as
well? .
Yeah, I'm doing a project called The Lost Patrol and basically
it's just me and my acoustic guitar. I'm putting out a 7"
with that project pretty soon-a friend of mine is putting it out.
.
How does this compare to the really produced
studio work you did with Refused? .
-It's amazingly nice. I always hated being in the studio and
always felt really alienated by being there. Comparing that to
sitting at home alone with your acoustic guitar and recording
songs on the four track is really nice and it sort of brings a
new level into everything. Playing live is really different; the
fact that I can sit down, play a song, and then talk for ten
minutes and I don't have to worry about people tuning their
guitars or the show losing speed. It's really scary as well,
because in a band you really rely on a band backing you up and
now I'm sitting there by myself. The first show I played was
terrible, I had never been so nervous in all of my life. .
I've been thinking a lot lately about the
European Union (EU), and I was wondering if you could talk about
that a little. Mostly just give pros and cons, and talk about how
it's changed things in Sweden as well as the rest of Europe. .
-The most important thing about the EU is to remember that now we
have less people in power over more people. That really rhymes
badly with how I want things to be. What we see here is a
concentration of power, with all of these lobby groups and
corporations having a huge amount of input. That fact is the
biggest and scariest. It's bad enough that we have an election
every fourth year and people are tricked into believing we are
somehow under a democratic system, but now we're taking the
politics away from the people and centralizing everything in
Brussels. Also, it's a fine example of how the market controls
the economy and dictates the politics around us. More than
anything, the EU has shown the power of market economy. It's a
really big issue. It's weird living here in north Sweden and
having people in Brussels deciding over issues that concern my
everyday life. People were already alienated by the political
system, and now it's worse because we don't even have the
politicians close to us anymore. .
Isn't the money created by the EU screwing
with the economies of several countries? .
-Yeah, now we're going to have equal currency in all of these
different countries. Now we're really trying to gear everyone
into believing that we really have to have a capitalist system.
Once again it's just the capitalist system trying to prove to the
world that it's the only way that works and not giving people an
alternative at all. It becomes and elitist club, with some
countries saying other countries are too poor to be in the
European Union. A lot of people who are really in need of
development or growing can't take part in the EU because they're
not rich enough. That only makes them poorer, because they can't
trade within the EU and it becomes more expensive, etc. It's a
really big issue. .
One of the most exciting things about being
in Europe for me was the cultural diversity. Just going from
country to country we would find a different culture every time
we crossed a border. The money is a small example of the
diversity because every country had their own currency, as well
as their own cultural identities. Do you think EU is playing a
part in chipping away at the individualism and diversity that has
always been found in European countries? .
-I think that's a plan. As you said, I think it's a plan to
deculturalize everyone. I don't know if that's going to work
though. What's happened many places is people have taken the
opposite road and now there's a lot of nationalist. People are in
desperate need of preserving their cultural heritage when they
see the European Union coming, and it just turns into crazy
nationalism instead which is not a good thing. .
One idea I wanted you to talk about is using
politics to communicate and educate only hardcore kids. How do
you feel about the fact that your politics only goes to this
specific audience, and do you feel limited by that? .
-I definitely feel like it's limiting. Once I analyze the
situation, I realize that most of the hardcore kids I meet aren't
in dire need of change. We're kind of comfortable with the lives
we live, and we're not that bad off actually. It becomes kind of
frustrating because you realize that the people who really need
the politics aren't going to be at the hardcore show. At the same
time, if you look at the reason why people got into to punk rock,
it's because they have this feeling that they do actually want to
change things and it's not just music. I look at it and I see
potential in the punk rock scene. There are people who actually
want to change things, and a lot of people with good ideas. At
the same time, for most people it is just music, it is just a
good time, or a social event. I had this brilliant plan: if I
become a singer/songwriter, I can actually play a lot of places
that Refused could never play. I could then put out music to
people who don't care about loud punk rock, wearing a mohawk, or
whatever comes along with their subculture. I'm trying to find
different approaches because right now most of the shows I play
are punk rock shows. At the same time I can play other shows like
a cafe or whatever, and play for a different crowd of people. I
think one of the biggest problems with the hardcore scene is that
people want to preserve punk rock exclusively for themselves, at
any cost. Therefore it doesn't matter if you talk politics, as
soon as you start doing it out of the punk scene or using means
of distributing yourself other than the proper punk rock channels
you become a sellout. That's a problem because I think the ideas
I'm talking about should not be exclusive for the hardcore scene.
I have this vague idea with my new band, sort of like my favorite
singer/songwriter Phil Ochs from the 60's, that you need
something familiar that people can identify themselves with and
recognize. That way they'll know what's going on. He suggested
the brilliant combination of Elvis and Che Guevera. I think what
we're doing with both of my new projects is trying to incorporate
a more familiar sound, something that you don't have to be a fan
of loud, crazy punk rock to like. If you like loud crazy punk
rock you'll still like it. You have the familiar element of
something you've heard before and on top of that you bring in the
really radical politics. Yes! .
I think that's an amazing idea. The acoustic
idea is good because you can play punk shows, but you can also
set up at the bar in your town where all the miners go to drink.
.
-Yeah and a lot of times the idealism within punk rock limits you
because you can't play that show, you can't play in front of
those people, or if you tour with that band you're a sell out.
You know? It's like the politics of conserving punk rock in some
original state is more important than actually reaching out to
people. I'm thinking to myself here: I'm 26 and turning 27 soon,
there has to be a way for me to reach out to other people than
just punk rock kids. So I'm trying out some new ideas here, and
I'm going to see where it takes me. I'm always going to be within
the punk scene because that's where I'm from, but if you're
really concerned with getting the politics out you have to
realize that there's a big world outside the scene that's not
going to care about the subculture phenomenon of punk rock. .
All of us talking right now were probably
introduced to politics through punk, and I think it's really
valid to take what you learn from punk rock and apply that to the
rest of the world. .
-That's how I feel. I don't think these ideas should be exclusive
for anyone, and I think they should be for everyone. It doesn't
really matter what certain people say about it. I think it's more
important to communicate with everyone and not just focusing on
the preservation of punk rock.
In
late 1997, sweden's REFUSED, recorded one of the most defining
and influetial punk/hardcore records of the decade. without
warning, the group disbanded soon after the records release. many
questions were left unanswered. buddyhead was able to track down
kristofer steen who played
guitar in the band. kristofer currently resides in orange county
while he attends film school. we didn't leave him alone until all
of our questions were answered and more. interview by aaron
icarus and travis keller.
buddyhead - when did the band break up officially? weren't you here in the u.s.?
kristofer - we were on tour here with frodus. we broke up for
good in atlanta. our other guitar player, jon, decided he
couldn't handle touring anymore. so we had this huge fight and
ended it.
buddyhead - some people assumed you guys had it planned beforehand that you were going to break up when you did. is that accurate?
kristofer - haha. that's kind of a rumor. i
don't want mr. brett to come and beat me up haha.
buddyhead - nobody at epitaph was mad you
guys broke up or anything were they?
kristofer - naw, i met brett (owner of epitaph) while my friends
band, milencolin, was recording their record in hollywood with
him. i talked to him briefly and he was just excited to finally
meet a member of refused. he said something about how we were
like operation ivy how we just put out 1 record and then broke
up, and i was like ehhhhhhh yeah.
buddyhead - hahaha. you mean you have never
even been over to epitaph?
kristofer - no. i called over there once to get somebody from
milencolin's phone number and they were like, "who are
you" and i was like, oh i think you guys put out one of my
band's albums, ya-know refused? and they were like
"what!" i don't think they knew we actually existed.
haha.
buddyhead - yeah it's really funny how nobody
over there seems to know anything about you guys except that they
put out your record and they have a video of you guys goin crazy.
kristofer - haha, i think it's better that way. we're just kind
of a mystery. isn't that better?
buddyhead - yeah perhaps. i bet half the
people at epitaph don't even know you guys broke up. but
seriously, you guys didn't know when you were going to break up?
kristofer - haha, i better talk to my lawyer before i answer
that. no, when we left for that last tour of the u.s., we knew it
was going to happen at some point. after the u.s. we wanted to do
europe and maybe a couple of tours at the beginning of this year.
but we had to break up at some point so whatever.
buddyhead - did you guys not get along
anymore?
kristofer - it was nothing unusual. just 4
guys that were beginning to not stand each other anymore. there
was basically a big rift between the singer and the whole band.
we actually recorded a whole other album without the vocalist.
it's being mixed at the moment. i don't know if it's going to be
called a refused album or something else. we recorded it right
before the american tour.
buddyhead - does it sound like
"shape"
kristofer - no. no. haha.
buddyhead - what does it sound
like?
kristofer - haha. well everybody kinda did their own thing. david
(the drummer) did a long dub and reggae epic. it was like 15
minutes long. hehe. it has like a gospel choir with it. jon
(guitarist/samplist) did like a 45 minute long dub song with his
friend who does a lecture on torture over it. it's funny. i'm not
exactly sure it's even any good.
buddyhead - what did you do?
kristofer - well i had a really ambitious idea. i recorded 4
separate parts, but could never figure out how to combine them.
haha. they ended up editing it and i have no idea what it sounds
like.
buddyhead - so there'e no singer
or anything on it?
kristofer - well david sings. other than
that it's mostly instrumental. i wanted to do like a cheesy
r&b acapella thing, but like in a brutal, screamy hardcore
style.
buddyhead - do you know what
label that's going to be on?
kristofer - probably on a small label in
sweden. we let labels hear it, and they were like "no"
hahahaha. it's just too far out there.
buddyhead - so you guys were
always shown as a 4 piece band in all your pictures, videos and
on the last album. you never seemed to have a permanent bass
player. why was that?
kristofer - well magnus played bass for refused from the
beginning on like everything. he played bass on "shape"
too but he is just such a lazy bastard he didn't want to tour. on
"shape" i had to play all the bass parts he didn't
learn.
buddyhead - yeah like on the video for new
noise, the first thing i noticed was that there was no bass
player in the video. you guys were a 4 piece.
kristofer - yeah we were just like "fuck the bass
player" that was always such an issue. we had like a team of
bass players. like 10 people. we would just call one up and tell
them we needed one for a show or something. we knew we were never
going to find one we liked. so for the video we were just like
"let's not have a bass player!" it looks better anyway.
haha. we auditioned don devore from ink and dagger to play bass.
that was in like january of 98 right after we finished the album.
he convinced us he was the right man for the job. in his own
words he said "i got what you need" so he flew out to
sweden. i thought he was a pretty cool guy, i'm sure he still is.
it just didn't work out.
buddyhead - why didn't magnus
just commit to the band?
kristofer - he's strange. i remember when we
were on tour with earth crisis and snapcase in europe, he would
like disappear into the woods writing poetry and we would be
like, "where the fuck is he we need to soundcheck!"
he's a
really cool guy though. he's in a band called cobolt.
buddyhead - oh yeah i have one of their
7"s. it's a split with kevlar.
kristofer - yeah. wow, i'm surprised you've
heard of that.
buddyhead - so you joined the
band right before the "everlasting" e.p. right?
kristofer - yeah, just before in like 94.
buddyhead - who was in refused then?
kristofer - god, nobody knew who was in the
band at the time. there was a couple of guys who got kicked out
at the same time. it would be like a guy who got his first
girlfriend or something at the time. you know how that works.
same old story.
buddyhead - it seemed like every refused
release was totally different and you guys constantly evolved.
where do you think the musical progression came from?
kristofer - we were just really ambitious.
we really listen to a lot of music. i mean we are really
respectful towards music history and stuff like that. i mean
respectful and disrespectful at the same time.
buddyhead - i mean you go from "songs to fan..." to
"shape" and it's totally different. was there a
transitional period in between? did you know how different you
wanted "shape" to be?
kristofer - we wanted it to be really
eclectic. i remember the moment we knew things had to change. it
was the end of 96. it was like the last show of tour. we were
supporting milencolin and it was really good. then the last 2
weeks we toured by ourselves with this funk/metal band called
mindjive. it was like winter in germany and we were so miserable.
everyone hated it. we like never wanted to be on tour again. we
just had to do something different. then the first song we wrote
was "new noise" it kind of went from there. nobody even
liked it at first. i was kind of bummed cuz i wrote most of the
song.
buddyhead - who did the
programming on the record?
kristofer - the other guitar player, jon. he
didn't even really do much guitar playing on the album, he just
did all that stuff. that is what he does full time nowadays. he
is really, really talented. he was pretty good then, but he was
just starting out. i mean he's incredible now. he's become a
really great dj.
buddyhead - so nobody had any
objections to him doing his thing on the record?
kristofer - no everybody was totally into
it.
buddyhead - how did you mix
those elements into the songs themselves?
kristofer - i remember he'd just hear space
in the songs and be like, "we gotta put something in
there" we were supposed to record the whole album in 3
weeks, but it took us 6. dennis took a lot of time because he
couldn't sing in time. we had to cut every single word with a
computer and put it in time.
buddyhead - oh with like pro
tools?
kristofer - yeah. like every single word was
manipulated. it's so common too. like every hardcore band does it
that way. i mean dennis is a punk guy and just couldn't deal with
it. he was just all over the place.
buddyhead - haha. was there a
backlash from like hardcore kids who didn't think the band was
very hardcore anymore?
kristofer - not really. that whole hardcore
scene had kind of diminished anyway.
buddyhead - after you finished the album, how
did the video come about?
kristofer - a friend of ours shot it.
burning heart gave us like 15,000 dollars to do it. that's kind
of standard. it looks good. it's cut with the music really well.
it was shot on 16milimeter. it was just good because it captured
how we were live.
buddyhead - where was it shot?
kristofer - at a big studio complex outside
of stockholm where most of the major swedish movies are shot.
buddyhead - where did you get
that wall of marshall stacks to put in the video?
kristofer - this one long haired guy owned
all of them. one day of filming we were just screwing around
running all over the place and i just tackled the marshall wall
and it just fell apart. and there were heads on top of the
cabinets too and i was just like "shit!"
buddyhead - hahahahaha. was it
weird to you guys when epitaph bought 51 percent of burning heart
so your record would basically be on epitaph?
kristofer - not really. i mean they were
still an independent label. they run their shit right not like
victory records or anything.
buddyhead - victory didn't pay
you guys or something for "songs to fan..."?
kristofer - not a fucking dime. fuck those
bastards. tony brummel wanted to do "shape" as well.
the rumor though was that he heard it and thought it sucked so he
didn't want to do it. but we wouldn't have done it with them
anyway.
buddyhead - what about equal vision? did they
pay you for "everlasting"?
kristofer - not a penny. having a record on
epitaph is such a relief in knowing that you're atleast going to
get paid what you deserve. i mean, we were just kids playing
hardcore getting screwed up our ass.
buddyhead - how old are all you
guys?
kristofer - well i'm not a kid anymore. i'm
25. dennis is 27. david is 24. jon is 22. that's the thing with
hardcore is it's such a youth thing. we didn't want to grow old
playing this kind of stuff.
buddyhead - what bands did you
like when you were younger that still are relevant to you today?
kristofer - born against is really good.
anything that is provocative. i still like the misfits too...
buddyhead - so where was the
last show?
kristofer - we played our last show in
virginia in this kids basement.
buddyhead - where did everyone
go after that last show?
kristofer - dennis went home to start
another band in like 2 weeks. literally. i came here to work,
well work is not the proper word, more like destroyed revelation
records due to my complete incompetence. haha. me and david both
actually. jon went home too. that was a fucked situation as well.
jon went home and all his equipment was lost. we're talkin like 3
thousand bucks of guitar equipment. and you know how the airlines
pay you if they lose your stuff?
buddyhead - oh yeah, you get
paid by the weight.
kristofer - yeah, and it didn't weigh shit cuz it's just like
wood. so they gave him like 200 bucks. he could have had a bag of
bricks and gotten more money.
buddyhead - ohhhhh man.
kristofer - yeah, then when he got home he
got dumped by his girlfriend. haha.
buddyhead - so what did dennis start when he got back?
kristofer - he started 2 things. his solo
thing with an acoustic guitar. he's recording an album of that
right now. then the international noise conspiracy which is kinda
retro. they actually toured china.
buddyhead - i heard about that.
so after you did the album you recorded a couple of songs for
that 4 song e.p. right?
kristofer - yeah, one song was on the e.p.
the other song was on a burning heart compilation. it's the most
ridiculous song you've ever heard. it's an old leftover riff from
"songs to fan..." hahaha. like a slayer rip off riff.
it was really really bad. and the lyrics dennis wrote were about
how everyone in the band started drinking. everyone but him that
is. the lyrics were somewhere along the lines of, "this has
turned into a one man crusade... blah blah blah"
buddyhead - so dennis still
doesn't drink or do anything?
kristofer - fuck no, he would never do that.
buddyhead - so there aren't any
other songs that were never released?
kristofer - we had this one song based on
this depeche mode riff or something. it was the most abominable
thing.
buddyhead - do you feel like you guys are
missing out when people say how your last record is one of the
most defining hardcore/punk records of the 90's and you aren't
around to benefit from it's success because the band is no more?
kristofer - no. i think it was the best
thing that could happen. in reality, people don't want you to
continue. you should quit on top.
buddyhead - have you guys ever thought of
getting it back together?
kristofer - yeah. with dennis i don't know
about. i don't really talk to him anymore. i talk to the other
guys, but not with dennis. we don't really have anything in
common.
buddyhead - so what are you up
to lately?
kristofer - i'm just going to school out
here and then i want to make movies. i'll probably move back to
sweden next year. i don't like garden grove. it's a cesspool.
haha.