Session Start: Thu Feb 22 17:49:09 2007 Session Ident: #tatchat * Now talking in #tatchat Hi BJ 04hI! dID YOU GET MY SCANNED PIECES? I'm checking email now - haven't downloaded in 2 days 04KNOW THE FEELING, I WAS OFF LINE FOR TWO DAYS AND WOW - TOO MANY E-MAILS! 200+ again, HBT must be busy again. * Tatter has joined #tatchat 04I JUST DID 'BITS' & 'PIECES" OF SCRM AND HENS AND CHICKS ENOUGH TO KNOW I COULD DO IT! iF FOR SOME REASON SCAN DIDN'T COME THRU I CAN RE SEND LATER. I didn't get it, sorry. When did you send it? 04THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION? I THINK IT WAS TO THE SIMPLY SPACE ADD. I'D SAVED ALL OF THEM IN MY ADDBOOK, BUT OF COURSE, IT WOULD NOT GO THRU ON ANGELFIRE. ?? 04I SENT IT YESTERDAY send to ntrop@ix.netcom.com * Tatter is now known as Katia Bonsoir Katia 04NO DUMMY ME I'LL SEND IT THERE. DUHHHHH Bonsoir Mimi and good evening Bj Is Zach Valee your Zach? yes my youngest Such a cute little guy and a tatter already! ya so are his 2 older brothers So lucky to have tatting companions. My family all think I'm nuts. well they think im nuts also but i gave them the disease ;) Mine are immune :-( ! lol Luckily I have lots of nice friends who tat, so I know I'm not alone well im creating my tatting friend so i won t be alone 04GOOD EVENING KATIA - MIMI I SENT E-MAIL SANS NOTATATIONS ON FIRST E-MAIL. HOWEVER, IT IS ALL THE CLASS WORK PLUS THE MEDALLION MOTIF FOR MY TABLECLOTH. 04THE LOCAL GOLDEN THREADS - SILVER NEEDLES WANT ME TO OFFER A BEGINNING TATTING CLASS HERE IN SILVER. you going to do it? 04PERHAPS IN THE SUMMER BUT ONLY A CLASS FOR 6 TO 8. i have 3 classes that i teach per week and the max i take is 7 Good job! 04THAT IS GREAT. I'M LIMITED BECAUSE OF THE EFFECTS OF CANCER TREATMENTS. I HAVE TO DOLE OUT MY ENERGY. My student is becoming a teacher, awww (but you're the student of many aren't you) 04ENERGY! That That's right BJ, now I remember - you tatted before your treatment so you just needed a refresher. i have fibromyalgia so i know how it feel with no energy 04CONSIDERING I'D FORGOTTEN EVERYTHING I'D LEARNED BEFORE I FOUND YOU, MIMI, IT IS RATHER EXCITING. I've had some pretty severe anemia from time to time so I understand too the only thing i can tell you bj is that teaching is vry rewarding and help alot with the moral 04OH MY DAUGHTER HAS FIBROMYALGIA AND IS QUITE DEBILITATED SHE WAS A PSYCHATIRIC RN 04YES, I LOVE TEACHING - I TAUGHT COMMUNITY COLLEGE CLASSES FOR FIFTEEN YEARS BEFORE I RETIRED. nice` Now I'm going to be intimidated as probably the least experienced instructor here 04LAST SATURDAY MY DAUGHTER TOOK ME TO A CLASS WHERE WE LEARNED COLCHA EMBROIDERY USED IN SPANISH COLONIAL TIMES. wow bj Cool. I 04OH COME ON MIMI - I SEE THE BEAUTIFUL WORK ON LINE AND BEGINNING IS ALL I COULD TEACH - BUT THEN I COULD GET THEM ON LINE! mimi the experience for teaching tatting is nt most important but the way you teach his what counts 04YES, MIMI IS A GOOD, ENCOURAGING TEACHER * Tatter has joined #tatchat thank you. if your student feel they learn something then you know your a good teacher ..... blush 04SO DO I GET AN A NOW LOL LOL lol lol Who's our new tatter? It's about time we started... * Tatter is now known as Sherree me me me me! Hi Sheree hello Sheree How about we all sign in no 04HI SHEREE Hi guys MIMI DILLMAN, ntrop@ix.netcom.com, SNOHOMISH, WA USA Katia Vallée Sherbrooke QC Canada lady_elhasa @hotmail.com 04BEVERLY DAVIS SILVER CITY NEW MEXICO BEELOYAL1@AOL.COM The lesson is found at http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/bonus_lesson.htm OOPS CAPS FOR ME THE TEACHER, BJ CAN YOU TURN YOURS TO LOWER CASE? Sherree Givens, Hesperia, CA sherree1o@yahoo.com SO DID ANYONE GIVE SPLIT CHAINS A TRY? 04YOU BET there it was so i could see :>( yes not yet 04Yes, bj did split chains from a book The Joy of plit Ring Tatting by Kuhn. I did initials. I'LL HAVE TO GET THAT BOOK. I DIDN'T KNOW IT HAD SPLIT CHAINS IN IT. THE SPLIT CHAIN IS A USEFUL TECHNIQUE BUT A BIT FIDDLY AND IT TAKES SOME PRACTICE BUT FOR THOSE OF US PERSNICKETY ENOUGH TO WANT TO AVOID KNOTS IN SOME SITUATIONS 04it is all split chains and there are a number of patterns. it is neat and easier for me to learn from a pattern. IT'S VERY HELPFUL AND ALSO IT LENDS ITSELF WELL TO COVERING RINGS COVERING THEM WITH TATTING THAT IS oh my stars also have a split chain patern I LOVE THE PADDDED EFFECT AND THE FACT THAT THE INSIDE IS RIGID SOMETIMES YOU NEED SOMETHING HARD INSIDE TO KEEP THE PIECE'S SHAPE KATIA YOUR STARS? 04i had the most problem with how to hold my hand and make the switch. the actual stitching and not popping/jumping wasn't a problem. DO YOU MEAN SPLIT RINGS BJ? 04absollutly! 04you know, the spider thingy? AH, SPLIT CHAINS ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE DEAD SPIDER in the book oh my star there a split chain pattern IS THAT KAY'S BOOK? 04I'm so articulate - well I did all the initials with split Rings because that is all that is in Kuhn's book... 04NO IT IS MARY SUE KUHN'S BOOK yes ANOTHER KUHN BOOK I NEED TO FIND. WOW! 04BOUGHT IT FROM HANDY HANDS ACTUALLY THERE ARE LOTS OF PATTERNS ON THE INTERNET TOO. SO ONCE YOU GET IT FROM THIS LESSON YOU'LL FIND YOU STUMBLE LESS ON SOME PATTERNS its from kaye b. judt SHE'S A NICE LADY. I'M WAITING FOR THE SPOKANE TAT WORKSHOP THEN I'LL SPLURGE ON BOOKS (COUNTING DAYS TIL APRIL_ 04i liked the initials because you had to keep repeating the split rings and after doing two or three letters - it came easily. ANYWAY, http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/bonus_lesson.htm SHOWS LINKS TO SPLIT *CHAIN* INSTRUCTIONS THE SPLIT CHAIN IS DONE AS FOLLOWS 04cool FIRST PART OF THE CHAIN - DOESN'T HAVE TO BE HALF, CAN BE A LONGER OR SHORTER SECTION - IS DONE LIKE A NORMAL CHAIN WITH FLIPPED STITCHES BUT THEN COMES THE "SPLIT" YOU TAKE THE WORKING SHUTTLE (THE ONE WITH THE CORE THREAD) OR WORKING NEEDLE, SORRY KATIA :) AND MEASURE A LENGTH OF THREAD TO COMPLETE THE CHAIN THEN MAKE A LOCK JOIN TO THE PLACE WHERE THE CHAIN SHOULD END i do both mimi so dont worry I do needle right now SO WHAT YOU'LL HAVE IS A CHAIN, SOME BARE THREAD, AND YOUR SHUTTLE THREAD JOINED BACK TO THE WORK OR NEEDLE SORRY SHERREE~! 04yes, it is scary at first lol it is scary THE TRICK IS TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCITONS TO MAKE SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE DOUBLE STITCHES WORKING FROM THE JOIN BACK TO THE PLACE WHERE YOU STOPPED THE ORIGINAL CHAIN IT'S MUCH EASIER WITH A NEEDLE lol i like the something that look part :) BECAUSE YOU CAN THREAD IT AROUND BUT US SHUTTLE TATTERS HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH MORE STEPS BECAUSE THE SHUTTLE IS MORE LIMITED WHERE IT CAN GO ok IF YOU LOOK AT GEORGIA'S INSTRUCTIONS AT http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/gssplitchain.html YOU'LL SEE THE STEPS SHE TAKES WITH A SHUTTLE 04i did get down to just a bobbin on a couple of occasions HER FIRST POINT ABOUT MEASURING THE THREAD IS A GOOD ONE THE LENGTH OF BARE THREAD YOU'LL LEAVE BETWEEN THE CHAIN AND JOIN SHOULD BE SOMEWHAT SHORTER THAN YOUR CHAIN THIS IS FOR 2 REASONS 1 THE CORE THREAD SEEMS TO INEXPLICABLY STRETCH A BIT DURING THE WORK I THINK IT'S POSSIBLY DUE TO THE PRESSURE YOU PUT ON THE LOCK JOIN, BUT THAT'S ME 2 THE CORE OF ANY CHAIN ACTUALLY IS SHORTER THAN THE CHAIN ITSELF WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE INSIDE OF A CURVE IS ALWAYS SHORTER THAN THE OUTSIDE MAIN THING IS MEASURE THE THREAD AGAINST A SIMILAR NUMBER OF ds ELSEWHERE IN THE WORK THEN SUBTRACT 1-2 DS FOR THE LENGTH WITH PRACTICE YOU'LL FIGURE OUT IF YOU NEED TO BE LONGER OR SHORTER BUT SO FAR I'VE FOUND IT DIFFICULT TO BE TOO SHORT! THE SCANS SHOW HOW SHE'S HOLDING HER WORK - LAST OF THE WORK TO THE LEFT, JOIN TO THE RIGHT. SO SHE'S WORKING RIGHT TO LEFT FOR COVERING THE CORE THREAD FIRST MOTION: DROPS SHUTTLE THREAD BEHIND THE WORK, LEAVING A LOOP DROOPING IN THE BACK THAT YOU CAN REACH FROM THE FRONT PULL THAT LOOP TOWARD YOU AND DROP THE SHUTTLE/NEEDLE THROUGH PULL UP ON THE SHUTTLE/NEEDLE THREAD SO THAT THE LOOP IS NOW ABOVE THE LINE OF WORK AND TIGHTEN UP A BIT IT WILL LOOK BIZARRE BUT BE PATIENT NEXT PULL SHUTTLE/NEEDLE TOWARDS YOU (THE FIRST HALF WILL ROTATE SOME) AND ALLOW A LOOP OF SHUTTLE/NEEDLE THREAD TO DROOP DOWN IN FRONT mimi is nt there an easier way for needle? DROP THE SHUTTLE/NEEDLE TO THE BACK AND PULL THAT LOOP FROM FRONT TO BACK YOU NOW HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S A VERY LOOSE THING THAT LOOKS LIKE A DOUBLE STITCH TENSION IT UP 1ST HALF FIRST THEN 2ND HALF FOR NEEDLE, I'M THINKING THAT YOU WON'T NEED THE EXAGGERATED LOOPS YOU CAN MAKE THE LOOP WITH YOUR FINGERS AND LET THE NEEDLE DO THE WORK. I'M THINKING A MINUTE WITH FINGERS, NO NEEDLE BY THE PC FOR INSTANCE IF YOU HOLD UP A LOOP OF NEEDLE THREAD ABOVE THE LINE OF THE CORE THREAD YOU CAN GUIDE THE NEEDLE UNDER THE CORE THREAD AND INSIDE THAT SMALL LOOP AND TENSION. HOPEFULLY THAT GIVES YOU WAHT LOOKS LIKE THE FIRST HALF IF I SAID IT CORRECTLY YOU'LL HAVE TO GO FROM FRONT TO BACK TO MAKE IT WORK THEN TO DO THE 2ND HALF YOU CAN HOLD UP THE LOOP AGAIN i dont do the needle split chain like you explain mimi ONLY THIS TIME GUIDE THE NEEDLE BACK TO FRONT AND UNDER THE CORE THEN OVER THE CORE AND UNDER THE LOOP PLEASE HOW KATIA MY WAY IS A BIT LIKE SEWING BUT MAYBE THERE'S EASIER i think gale mashale do it like i do it easier then what you explain mine is like the plist ring needle tatter just need to do the first part of there chain normally then pull the needle off the stitch as usual then unthread the needle and start tatting with that thread withthe second half of the stitch first up till the end poke the end of the nedle to the part of the tatter piece that need to be join and rethread the needle and close the chain I'M STILL CONFUSED ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THAT JOIN when your chain is close youll get your 2 thread at the place you need to be for the next round oh, wow I CAST ON STITCHES AS NORMAL FOR THE FIRST PART OF THE CHAIN THEN I PULL THE NEEDLE THROUGH yes THEN I UNTHREAD THE NEEDLE AH I THINK I'M SEEING NOW I CAST ON MORE STITCHES THEN JOIN you do itexactly like the split ring BY PUTTING THE NEEDLE'S EYE END THROUGH THE JOINING SPOT THEN RETHREAD AND PULL THROUGH? bingo THEN IT'S THE CORE THREAD COMING UP OUT OF THE CHAIN TO MEET THE OTHER THREAD NOT THE CAST ON STITCHES exactly THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM THE SHUTTLE TATTED WAY BECAUSE THE THREADS THAT COME UP FROM TEH SPLIT CHAIN MY WAY BOTH COME FROM THE DS'S. THE CORE THREAD IS NOT INTERRUPTED true WITH GOOD TENSION DOES YOUR SPLIT CHAIN MAKE A CURVE OR A UPSIDE DOWN "V" but the way i do it his easier same base as the split ring for needle IT'S MUCH EASIER I AGREE! it make a nnormal curve THAT'S GREAT NEWS, I'LL HAVE TO TRY THIS. BJ DID WE LOSE YOU WITH ALL THIS NEEDLE TATTING TALK? me too thanks katia 04nope, i was following along and visualizing THANKS INDEED KATIA I'M GLAD YOU CAME! NOW THAT YOU HAVE THE MECHANICS OF THIS THING WHY DO IT? 04and since i print the logs - i can try it later with a nee3dle THE MAIN USE THESE DAYS IS TO AVOID STOPPING TO CUT AND TIE my pleasure ... this was very fresh information it was the class i gave monday 04yeah! why do it I didn't get any JOY lol MANY FAVORITE TATTING PATTERNS HAVE THEIR ROUNDS ARRANGED SO THAT ONE IS ATTACHING RINGS TO CHAINS EVERY ROUND SO IF YOU WANT TO CLIMB OUT YOU HAVE TO GO CHAIN-RING OR RING-CHAIN SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT YOU'LL COMBINE A SPLIT CHAIN (TO FINISH ONE ROUND) THEN WITH YOUR THREADS COMING OUT FROM THE 04on the K I made, one had to change core thread for last part the upleg of the K MIDDLE OF THE CHAIN, YOU MAKE A MOCK PICOT AND START A SPLIT RING TO FINISH THE CLIMB OUT MIGHT BE THE SAME IDEA BJ HERE'S AN EXAMPLE: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/rodgers/carnation.html 04it was 'interesting' to figure out TAMMY RODGERS CARNATION A SIMPLE RING-CHAIN REPEAT ROW AFTER ROW 04in all fairness, after one gets going it isn't that bad! THAT'S RIGHT - IT'S THAT PRACTICE THING AGAIN TOO! ANYWAY, LOOK AT TAMMY'S DIAGRAMS SHE SHOWS THE STRUCTURE FIRST IN THE 2ND ROUND, 3 RINGS ARE ATTACHED TO A SINGLE CHAIN OF THE PREVIOUS ROUND - THAT'S HOW SHE GETS THE RUFFLE BUT THINKING SPLIT CHAIN STRATEGY, SHE DREW ANOTHER DIAGRAM SEE THE ONE NEXT TO "RND 2" IT SHOWS DOING THE LAST CHAIN OF THE FIRST ROUND ACTUALLY AS A SPLIT CHAIN BUT BY MAKING THE CHAIN AS FOLLOWS CH 3-3-3-3-3 STOP THEN MEASURE OUT A SMALL BIT OF CORE THREAD, SHUTTLE JOIN TO THE FIRST RING, THEN SPLIT CHAIN STITCH BACK UNTIL YOUR FIRST THREAD AND 2ND THREAD ARE TOGETHER AND EXITING THE TOP OF THE CHAIN THEN YOU LEAVE A MOCK PICOT (SHE CALLS THEM FAUX PICOT) BEFORE MAKING YOUR SPLIT RING TO BEGIN THE 2ND ROUND french term for mock picot yes I see SINCE THE 2ND ROUND RINGS ARE R 3-3+3-3 (WHEN MADE NORMALLY) YOU'LL SUBSTITUE A SPLIT RING OF 3-3/3-3 YOUR 2 THREADS WILL BE AT THE TOP OF THE RING WHEN YOU'RE DONE, AND YOU CAN MAKE A CHAIN AS CALLED FOR IN THE PATTERN, 04what does the + stand for in a pattern? AND CONTINUE AS CALLED FOR IN THE PATTERN. the + mean join SCROLL TO THE TOP BJ TAMMY GAVE A NICE LITTLE TABLE OF HER ABBREVIATIONS A VERY CONSCIENTIOUS PATTERN WRITER 04thanks! yeah! like I've told students over and over Read the Directions! WE THANK HER FOR THAT!! NOT EVERYONE DOES true AND THEN YOU HAVE TO READ THE PATTERN, STUDY THE DIAGRAMS AND PHOTOS, AND MAKE AN EDUCATED GUESS NOT HERE THANK GOODNESS lol right I ALSO LIKE THE WAY TAMMY SHOWS HER MT STRATEGY AT THE END OF THE PATTERN 04ok when one finds parts of the pattern in ( ) I can't find a place anywhere that explains that. REMEMBER MAGIC THREAD TRICK? (MT) 04yes yes IF YOU SCROLL DOWN TO THE END OF TAMMY'S PATTERN SHE EXPLAINS WHERE IN YOUR WORK YOU CAN EMBED YOUR THREADS SO THAT YOU CAN PULL THROUGH FOR FINISHING INSTEAD OF HAVING TO SEW IN LATER THIS IS MORE DIFFICULT IN NEEDLE TATTING. kATIA, DO MOST NEEDLE TATTERS JUST SEW THEM IN ANYWAY? bj the ( ) give you more explication of what you need to do 04I really like tatting them in as I go - like padding. i hide my end exactly like shuttle tatter 04Thanks katia EXACTLY BJ. I ALWASY FORGET WHERE MY TAPESTRY NEEDLES ARE SO I HAVE UNFINISHED OBJECTS HERE AND THERE UNTIL I GET MORE :-( THANKS KATIA SO ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT TAMMY'S PATTERN? no 04I bought short tapestry needle but i've done it for so long just as I go that it seems redundant AND ABOUT STRATEGIZING CLIMBING OUT FROM ONE ROUND TO T HE NEXT USING THE TOOLS OF SPLIT RING, SPLIT CHAIN AND MOCK PICOT? 04no - no I FORGET SOMETIMES TO PUT IN MT - GO TO WORK TOO QUICK :-( SO I HAVE TO BAIL MYSELF OUT BY SEWING! OK LET'S GO ON i have a question mimi OK KATIA and is for shuttle picot on split chain how do you manage that part? AH, THAT QUESTION :) JUST LIKE YOU WOULD WITH A NEEDLE LEAVE A SPACE BUT IT'S MORE TRICKY TO DO SO A GAUGE IS GOOD TO SLIP IN TO HOLD IT IN PLACE WHILE YOU TENSION UP THE STITCH OR YOU SHOULD HAVE ENOUGH BARE THREAD THAT YOU CAN MAINTAIN THAT THREAD SPACE AND TENSION THE DS FURTHER OUT OR I SHOULD SAY FARTHER AWAY FROM THE LAST DS MADE but when you have that tiny little space its dreadfull to do (SORRY MY TEXAN SLIPPED OUT THERE WITH FURTHER) IT IS KATIA THAT'S WHY I SUGGESTED A GAUGE IF YOU DON'T HAVE ROOM k OR IF YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE JUGGLINE JUGGLING PULL UP THE PICOT AFTER YOU TENSION THE 1ST HAVE OF THE STITCH dont worry about the miss type im use to read georgia ;) WITH THE POINT OF YOUR SHUTTLE - OR IF NEEDLE TATTING, A CROCHET HOOK OR SIMILAR YOU CAN WIGGLE IT INTO PLACE OR I SHOULD SAY, YOU CAN WIGGLE IT UNTIL IT'S THE HEIGHT YOU WANT THEN FINISH TENSIONING k AND PROBABLY WIGGLE AGAIN :) OK ON TO ONE OF MY FAVORITE OTHER USES: COVERING RINGS SEE ROSEMARIE PEEL'S PATTERN: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/peelhome/freepat/christmas2.htm SEE THAT RING IN THE MIDDLE? 04that is intriguing 04yes IT'S A PLASTIC RING THAT SHE TATTED OVER! yes 04oh boy! IN THIS CASE KATIA YOU'LL HAVE TO NEEDLE IT MY WAY :) BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT CASTING ON STITCHES ONTO YOUR NEEDLE hehe i know BUT YOU'LL BE CASTING THE STITCHES ONTO THE RING but i usually finger tat those ring ;) ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS VISUALIZE THE PLASTIC RING = CORE THREAD TRUE BUT THAT'S A LOT OF THREAD TO PULL AROUND IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO THE NEXT ROUND OUTSIDE, SAY WITH A SPLIT RING 04I'd like to see someone finger tat - it eludes me! IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY EASY BJ JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU NEED "JUST ONE MORE CHAIN" 04easy's good AND THE THREAD FALLS OFF YOUR SHUTTLE AS TOO SHORT! 04I've gotten too short thread, taken out bobbin and finished that way - but fingers? THEN YOU HAVE TO GUIDE THAT THREAD WITH YOUR FINGERS OR ELSE FIGURE OUT HOW TO JOING IN A NEW THREAD FOR A SHORT SPACE BOBBIN WORKS TOO, BUT YOU CAN GUDE IT BY PINCHING WITH YOUR FINGERS TOO. 04yes, that's hard LIKE YOU SAY, IT MAY BE SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO SEE SOMEONE DO FIRST. 04i think so 04i'm a visual learner I GAVE SOME MORE LINKS IN THE LESSON TO OTHER PATTERNS USING SPLIT CHAINS AND/OR COVERED RINGS (OR BOTH) I HOPE YOU ATTEMPT ONE OR TWO AND SEE IF YOU LIKE SPLIT CHAINS you can also make a small ball of thread that you can pull in the ring tie it with rubber band to keep it togetter yes I will AT THE VERY LEAST NOW YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SO IF YOU SEE THEM IN A PATTERN YOU CAN EITHER DO THEM OR FIGURE OUT HOW TO AVOID THEM BY FINISHGIN THE ROUND, TYING, CUTTING AND STARTING OVER :))) MY MAIN GOAL IN THESE LESSONS 04actually, it became fun doing the letters and khun gives the amt of thread one needs for shuttles A and B IS TO EQUIP YOU WITH ENOUGH EXPERIENCE AND TERMS TO FOLLOW GEORGIA'S CLASSES WHILE YOU WONT' INSTANTLY UNDERSTAND ALL THE LESSONS HOPEFULLY YOU'LL HAVE ENOUGH BACKGROUND KNOWLDEGE 04i'll just come back to beginner's one more time. its comfy here THAT ONLY A LITTLE BIT IS NEW, SO YOU'LL ATTEMPT THE NEW PART G`s class are very easy to follow and if you dont understand you just need to ask TRUE! AND BECAUSE YOU'LL UNDERSTAND MOST OF WHAT YOU'RE READING, YOU CAN KEEP UP AND NOT BE TOO LOST 04i looked at some of her logs = but the assignments seem too advanced for me JUST YOU WAIT BJ they are not RUTH'S DAISY PICOT HANGING CLUNIES ARE GOING TO BE A DOOZY!! 04I guess I'll bite the bullet and just try and not be such a fraidy cat lol yep the hanging clunny is fun when you gt the hang of it I'M GLAD I LEARNED DAISY PICOTS AWHILE AGO SO I'M HOPING I'LL BE ABLE TO MANAGE IT. 04Cluny seems a lot like weaving - I want to conquer the tatting techniques first I'VE DONE HANGING CLUNY FOR ALONG TIME - BUT THIS WON'T SURPRISE YOU KATIA - IT WAS A MORE COMPLEX WAY! IT'S EXACTLY LIKE WEAVING BJ THE TOUGH PART IS MAKING UYP THE LOOM SO THAT YOU CAN GET RID OF IT ONCE THE WEAVING IS DONE 04Well at least I understood that much lol "GET RID OF IT" IS A SHORT VERSION LOL how did you do it mimi ... i know your web site about clunny helped me alot I CALLED IT SPLIT CLUNY http://home.netcom.com/~ntrop/cluny/instructsplit.htm ACTUALLY, I SHOULD MORE PROPERLY SAY MY FRIEND MELANIE CALLED IT SPLIT CLUNY BECAUSE SHE NEEDED THE THREAD ENDS TO DO LEAVE THE LEAF DIFFERENTLY THAN USUALSOMETHING DIFFERENT HANGING CLUNY SEEMS TO BE A MORE POPULAR TERM AND CERTAINLY IN RUTH'S WORK IT DOES HANG. I WAS USING THEM TO CLIMB FROM ONE ROUND TO THE NEXT WHEN THE ROUND ENDED WITH A CLUNY. I PLAN TO TRY RUTH'S SOON I'M AFRAID I'LL WRECK MY TENSIONING FOLLOWING HER METHOD BECAUSE WHAT I'M USED TO IS VERY DEPENDENT UPON THE PATH OF THE LOOM THREAD 04where can i get a pattern for what they call a (spelling) chatalaine misspelled BUT HER WAY IS A LOT SIMPLER AND SO I SHOULD TRY IT. MELANIE DID IT THIS WAY BECAUSE IT WAS THE SAME AS THE WAY I SHOWED HER "NORMAL" CLUNY CHATELAINE PATTERNS ARE RARE ON LINE I'M AFRAID BJ and Sherree a month ago i was intimidated by the thought of cluny now im doing a pattern my own with hanging and normal cluny THERE'S AT LEAST ONE PUBLISHED IT'S A FLYER 04ok is it in the handy hands cat? MAYBE 8 PAGES? I'M SORRY I CAN'T REMEMBER THE AUTHOR. HANDY HANDS WILL KNOW wow Katia, i'm still afraid of the cluny