Appendix A: Comments & Responses
Here we list some of the more pertinent comments received that pertain to The Bible of the Good and Moral Atheist and responses to them, in a question and answer format, organized by the related book.
Q. Why do you argue for an underlying base morality? Morals are a human construct, and vary by society. How do you reconcile your position with the fact that seeing a woman’s leg uncovered is immoral in many parts of the world, while it is acceptable in the United States; and that seeing a woman without a shirt is immoral in the United States, but it is acceptable in parts of Europe? Doesn’t this prove that morals are all relative?
A. What we have is a difference in definition. Although we commonly use the word “moral” to describe things such as community standards of decency, I would define those as “cultural norms” instead. Cultural norms such as standards of acceptable clothing are indeed relative, and vary widely. But morals do not. Many people confuse the two because we sometimes see people who are willing to cross the boundaries of both cultural norms and morality, and wrongly paint any people who break cultural norms as immoral. Also, sometimes cultural norms intrude where we run into the gray area at the edge of morality. How much harm do things like drugs inflict on a society, is it better to ban them and jail users, or to legalize them? There are completely moral reasons for both solutions, so cultural norms come into play. How accepting is the culture of the use of such drugs?
Sometimes cultural norms themselves fall afoul of basic morality without there being two moral sides to the issue, such as slavery and racism in the past in the U.S., or currently with bride burnings in India and honor rapes and killings in Muslim societies. But as societies mature, such acts begin to earn condemnation, and eventually are removed from the list of cultural norms. Slavery has been removed from the United States as a cultural norm. Racism in the U.S. and bride burnings in India are strongly condemned, although they occur occasionally. Honor rapes and killings in Muslim societies still occur, although there is now increased awareness of the problem. Human societies are in various stages of moving their cultural norms to conform with the true morality of sympathy for others. Yes, at times we take steps backwards, such as in Nazi Germany. But as a species, overall we continue to move forwards.
Q. When you quote President Taft, you selectively clipped from his quote the preceding sentence, where he said, “I believe in God.” Why?
A. A more complete quote is as follows: “I believe in God. I do not believe in the divinity of Christ and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe.” But the point of the sections on quotes from American political icons was not to show that they were Atheists, it was to show that they did not follow the dogma of the Religious Right in America, contrary to popular belief and the common misconception that this country was founded on “Christian principles.” That most presidents since the first six—excluding Lincoln—were definitely theists is not news to the average American, and there was no need to add it there. But the fact that the early presidents and Lincoln were not Christians as we now know it, and that Taft, a 20th century president, could have made a statement that is outright blasphemy to most American Christians, is indeed news.
Q. Why wasn’t Thomas Paine’s birthday listed in the Book of Celebrations?
A. Although as a Deist, an American revolutionary icon, and as an author Paine was very important in the history of Freethought, Paine himself was also very much against the concept of Atheism. As Atheists, we recognize his contributions, and read the Age of Reason. But listing as a holiday the birthday (January 29th) of a man who was so definitely opposed to Atheism is not appropriate.
Book of Biogenesis / Book of Human Evolution
Q. One major argument I see often (which you did not cover) is that most mutations are harmful, and very few are neutral or beneficial. It’s clear that most humans do not have mutations. How could mutated DNA give viable offspring, much less ones that could reproduce? Given that, it would seem that evolution has a significant flaw.
A. The following explanation could be called the “Failure of the Most Mutations Are Harmful Hypothesis.” You make two very large and incorrect assumptions here, that “most mutations are harmful” and that “most humans do not have mutations.” According to a study by F. Giannelli, T. Anagnostopoulos, and P.M. Green published in the American Journal of Human Genetics in 1999, the authors estimated that the average human zygote has 128 mutations, and that only 1.05% of all mutations are detrimental. This result was based on studies in other organisms, so the actual numbers for humans will vary somewhat, but it gives you a good overall feel as to how common mutations are in humans and other mammals, and the relative level of harm caused by most mutations.
Q. Why weren’t blogs listed in the Book of Resources?
A. Blogs are, by nature, a more transitory medium anchored by a single person. Without that one person, that personality, the resource is gone. If you are interested in blogs about Atheism, there is an absolutely superb list available at AtheismOnline (atheismonline.com, click on “Directory”). There are also much smaller lists at WebRing (l.webring.com/hub?ring=athjourn) and Atheism.About.com (atheism.about.com/cs/atheismblogs).
Q. The Objectivist Center (www.objectivistcenter.org) does not truly represent strict Objectivism, they preach tolerance for other viewpoints. Why do you only list the website for the modified philosophy of The Objectivist Center, but not the more accurately Objectivist group, The Ayn Rand Institute (www.aynrand.org), the true heir of the philosophies of Ayn Rand?
A. Part of the difficulty in classifying sites and organizations related to Objectivism is that there is a tight link in Objectivism between metaphysics (Atheism), politics (laissez faire capitalism), philosophy (rational self-interest), and even the life and works of Rand herself. This makes it exceedingly difficult to separately identify groups that maintain a primary interest in Atheism from those that treat it only secondarily and are more interested in the politics and life of Rand and the anthology of her work. The sites in the Book of Resources were initially chosen to avoid those that were primarily political or biographical in nature, so you can see how this makes such choosing difficult.
Beyond that, there has been a schism in the Objectivism Movement. The Objectivist Center considers the philosophy of Objectivism to be open to refinement, and that dialogue with groups who share some similar goals (such as Libertarians) is a productive venture. The Ayn Rand Institute, however, follows the philosophies of Rand without modification or refinement. They do not support dialogue with groups such as Libertarians, considering other philosophical views to be flawed and therefore immoral—as Rand herself stated—and that collaboration with those holding such views is a compromise of basic principles. The intricacies of the schism are difficult for those not well-acquainted with Objectivism.
Both of the above groups are well-organized. The Objectivist Center (TOC) claims about 50 affiliated groups in the United States, plus several in Canada and abroad. Most of these are adult groups, although they have a few college and high-school affiliates. They focus primarily on the philosophy, and are more open to working with other groups as necessary to promote their goals. (Note that none of their groups affiliate with the ARI.)
The Ayn Rand Institute (ARI), on the other hand, focuses much more on education, and has around 70 affiliates in the United States (all of them college and high-school groups) plus 7 in Canada and 9 abroad. Again, the organization serves as a more “orthodox” promoter of the philosophy. They are the legal heirs to Rand’s legacy, as they own the copyrights to Rand’s work. Also note that the Objectivism Online Forum, mentioned in the Book of Resources, follows ARI’s stricter Objectivism, not that of the TOC.
In an attempt to split hairs, initially this book just listed the site for TOC due to its adult meeting groups and its willingness to work with other groups to achieve promotion of common goals, something The Bible of the Good and Moral Atheist also encourages. ARI’s site was seen as more of a political and biographical site, focusing more on Rand herself. But in retrospect, even though there is a philosophical schism, the content level of the two sites and the organizational level of the two groups are similar enough that both should be listed. So here we list the information on the ARI, similar in format to what we listed for TOC in the Book of Resources:
The Ayn Rand Institute: The Center for the Advancement of Objectivism
www.aynrand.org
2121 Alton Parkway, Suite 250, Irvine, California, 92606-4926
ARI follows the rational self-interest philosophy of Ayn Rand more strictly than The Objectivist Center, mentioned earlier in the Book of Resources, not accepting compromise with other philosophies. ARI also owns the rights to Rand’s written works. ARI promotes the philosophy of Objectivism through over 80 student organizations in the U.S. and abroad, and supports contests, offers internships, gives out teaching materials, and sponsors lectures and conferences.
Q. You included meetup groups for Atheists (atheists.meetup.com) in general, why didn’t you include meetup groups related to other Freethinker organizations?
A. Other categories do exist, but are not as large or established, and in some cases the groups use other mediums to organize besides Meetup.com. There are 58 larger (more than 25 members) meetup groups—out of 71 total groups—listed under “Atheists,” but a far smaller number under other categories. The other ones include 9 larger groups for Brights (brights.meetup.com), 4 for Humanists (humanism.meetup.com), 2 for Universists (universist.meetup.com), and 1 for Skeptics (skeptics.meetup.com). The Atheists Meetup pages give links to these other groups as well.
Q. Why didn’t you include any Yahoo groups or MSN groups in your list of discussion forums?
A. Unlike Yahoo or MSN, most of the discussion forums mentioned in the Book of Resources do not require the “global” type registration they offer, you can simply register for the individual board itself by being online and having a valid email address. Also, as of early 2006 the MSN groups are for the most part only lightly traveled, and the Yahoo Groups are unfortunately hampered by the older “message list” format that are much less user-friendly than the newer “discussion forum” format that most boards use. But for informational purposes, we will list here some of the more-traveled of those groups here:
Atheists Connected – groups.yahoo.com/group/AtheistsConnected – 17,000 posts in the last 12 months.
Atheist Empire – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheistempire – website mentioned earlier this chapter, 12,000 posts last year.
Atheist Moms – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheistmoms – for mothers, 10,000 posts last year.
Human_ism – groups.yahoo.com/group/Human_ism – Secular Humanist, over 6,000 posts last year.
Ask an Atheist – groups.msn.com/AskanAtheist – debate/discussion with theists (MSN), 6,000 posts last year.
Real World Atheism – groups.yahoo.com/group/realworldatheism – no proselytizing, over 3,800 posts last year.
The Atheism Mailing List – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheism – over 3,200 posts last year.
Young Atheists Freethinkers – groups.yahoo.com/group/Young_Atheists_Freethinkers – teen/college, 3,200 recent posts.
Atheist Only – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheist_only – over 2,000 posts last year.
Atheists Against Superstition – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheists – 1,800 posts last year.
Theism Free Zone – groups.yahoo.com/group/TheismFreeZone – totally secular, no theism, about 1,700 posts last year.
Atheists Area – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheistsarea – chat only, no ads, over 1,200 posts last year.
GALHA – groups.yahoo.com/group/galha – Gay/Lesbian, members of galha.org only, over 1,200 posts last year.
Atheist Libertarians – groups.yahoo.com/group/atheist_libertarians – libertarian, about 1,000 posts last year.
The Skeptics Forum – groups.yahoo.com/group/skeptics-forum – skepticism, over 800 posts last year.
The Canadian Atheist Forum – groups.yahoo.com/group/CanadianAtheist – Canadians, over 600 posts last year.
Atheist Teens – groups.yahoo.com/group/Atheist_Teens – moderated teen group, nearly 600 posts last year.
