-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: hello
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 04:46:52 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: "Mr. Khan"
assalamu-alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu Mr. Khan,
I have sent a few emails to you in the past, but I have not received any
response as of yet. I was hoping that we could commence a peaceful
dialogue, for I have a few questions that I would ask of you about
Islam.
I have heard that you have great character and a great heart, and
because of that, I desire to speak to you, for I know that you would be
helpful in my journey for truth. When we are truly seeking God with a
true heart, nothing but good can come about from it.
Please respond with your thoughts. May God's peace be upon you.
In Christ,
Brian Lucero
Subject: Re: hello
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:19:31 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
HI BRIAN:
I DO NOT RECALL GETTING ANY
EMAILS FROM YOU. THANKS FOR SENDING
ANOTHER
EMAIL, HOWEVER GUIDANCE TO A
HUMAN BEING COMES FROM GOD ALMIGHTY NOT FROM
TALKING TO ANOTHER MORTAL LIKE
MYSELF, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU HAVE READ
THE
QURAN AND RE-READ IT, THIS IS
ACCORDING TO EITHER ASRA OR ERUM. THE MAIN
PURPOSE OF THE MESSENGERS AND
PROPHETS OF GOD IS JUST TO RELAY THE MESSAGE
IN THE DIVINE BOOKS OF GOD NOT
TO MAKE THEM BOW OR SUBMIT TO GOD, THAT COMES
FROM MERCY OF GOD
ALMIGHTY. SO IF YOU ARE NOT CONVINCED
THAT THE QURAN IS
THE BOOK OF GOD THEN THERE IS
NOT MUCH CONVINCING I CAN DO TO HELP YOU.
I WOULD BE GLAD TO SIT DOWN
AND TALK TO YOU WHERE WE CAN EXCHANGE OUR
THOUGHTS FROM BOTH POINTS OF
VIEW VIS-A VIS THE HOLY BIBLE AND THE QURAN.
PLEASE CALL ME AT ANY TIME.
MAY THE ALMIGHTY GUIDE YOU TO
THE TRUTH, AMEN!!!!!!!!!
SINCERELY
MAHMOOD
Subject: Re: hello
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:03:09 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: m khan
Attachment: “Discussion.pdf”
Salaam,
Thank you for writing me back. I'd be honored to sit down and talk with you.
Maybe we could go out to a restaurant together and fellowship around a meal.
Please inform me of what day of the week you are least busy, and we can pursue
plans. My schedule is pretty much flexible, except for some night classes that
i'm taking. If going out to dinner would mean investing too much time that you
do not have, then we can work out something shorter.
In the meantime, before we meet, I would like for you to read something. Then
when we meet, you can share your thoughts about it. I will put it in the
attachment of the email. If you would like, you can print it out and read it on
your spare time. It's only 9 pages. It will break the ground for our dialogue,
and stimulate questions. Hopefully it will also answer some misconceptions that
many Muslims have about what Christians believe, and that most important thing:
WHY we beleive it.
May God guide you.
Peace,
Brian
Subject: Re: hello
Date: Mon, 24 Nov
2003 01:47:26 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
HI BRIAN:
PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING SO YOU CAN GIVE IT FOOD FOR THOUGHT :
<<http://www.islamonline.net/English/ram2002/10/Quran/ontheQuran/article13.shtml>>
THANKS
MAHMOOD
Subject: PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING BEFORE WE MEET !!!!
Date: Mon, 24 Nov
2003 02:08:56 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
<<http://www.missionislam.com/comprel/former.htm>>
Subject: Eid Mubarak
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:40:30 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: "Mr. Khan"
Eid Mubarak, Mr. Khan. I hope you have a blessed day. Also, thank you
for your emails.
In Christ,
Brian
Subject: asalaamu....
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:47:38 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: "Mr. Khan"
Attachment: “Discussion.pdf”
asalaamu alaikum,
Hello Mr. Khan. How has everything been going? How was Eid? I sent
you an email a few weeks ago saying eid mubarak, but I recieved no
response, so i'm assuming that you didn't get it.
So i've read both your emails, the one of the testimonies of Christians
from different backgrounds converting to Islam, and the one about the
Qur'an and how it says it must be from a divine source. They were long,
but very interesting papers. They would make good topics to talk about
when we sit down to fellowship. I wondering how your reading was coming
along, if you had finished the attachment, "Discussion with a
Marabout." If not, and you lost it, then I will attach another one to
this email, so you can go over it. I believe that it is a good
discussion in that it expells many misconceptions that many muslims have
about Christianity, about the trinity, and why we believe that Jesus
actually died and rose again. So please put time into reading it, cause
if there are blatant errors in its logical sequences, then you can show
me where. It'll be a good topic to talk around.
On other things, I hope that you are doing well, and that your family is
doing very well also. They are blessed to have a father like you who is
truly seeking after God's will and truth. :) Have a great week, and
hopefully we can talk soon. But for now I have finals to worry about -
i've got to get to studying..... pray for me. Alright, well have a good
night, and God bless you.
in sincerity,
Brian Lucero
Subject: RE: PEACE TO YOU AS WELL!!!
Date: Fri, 12 Dec
2003 00:58:10 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
HI BRIAN:
THANKS FOR WRITING AND THANKS FOR
THE NICE LETTER. I READ THROUGH YOU
LETTER AND THE ATTACHMENT
HOWEVER I DIFFER WITH THE EXPLANATION BECAUSE WE
ARE CLOSER TO THE OTHER
FACTIONS OF CHRISTIANS THAN THE ONES YOU ARE TRYING
TO EXPLAIN ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
P.B.U.H (PEACE BE UPON HIM). THERE ARE
OTHER
DENOMINATIONS IN CHRISTIANITY
THAT BELIEVE THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS GOD
ALMIGHTY AND JESUS CHRIST IS
JESUS CHRIST LIKE FOR EXAMPLE JEVOHAH'S
WITNESSES AND THE UNITY
CHURCH. PLEASE TELL ME WHO IS RIGHT
AMONG THE
DIFFERENT CHRISTIAN GROUPS I.E CATHOLICS, ANGLICAN, LUTHERANS,
PRESBYTARIANS, UNITARIANS,
UNITY CHRUCH, JEVOHAH'S WITNESSES, JESUS CHRIST
AND THE LATTER DAY SAINTS
(MORMONS), SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST, BORN AGAIN
CHRISTIANS OR SO MANY OTHERS WHO ALL CLAIM TO BE ON THE RIGHT PATH AND WHO
CLAIM THAT THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY
AND POSITVELY RIGHT, WHO FOLLOW THE
BIBLE TO
THE LETTER AND WHO ARE SO
CONVINCED THAT THEIR INTERPRETATION IS THE THE
RIGHT ONE, THEY HAVE NO PLACE FOR ANY OTHER EXPLANATION
OR ARGUMENT.
PLEASE CONVINCE THESE PEOPLE
FIRST AND THEN ONCE YOU HAVE DONE THAT AND FIND
OUT WHICH ONE OF THEM IS
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THEN LET ME KNOW IF YOU WERE ABLE
TO COME TO A CONCLUSION WHICH
ONE SHOULD ACCEPT AS SPEAKING THE TRUTH.
I
FOLLOW THE QURAN JUST LIKE YOU
DO THE BIBLE AND FROM WHAT I LEARNED
FROM
THE BRIEF READING OF THE BIBLE
(ALSO ATTENDED A CATHOLIC SCHOOL FOR 8 YEARS
AND SEVENT DAY ADVENTIST FOR 3
YEARS) IS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LOOKING UP TO
THE HOLY FATHER FOR HELP ALL
THE TIME AND HE HIMSELF IS ASKING
EVERYONE TO
WORSHIP HIM AND HIM ALONE,THE
FATHER OF ALL CREATION. LIKE IT IS MENTIONED
IN THE BIBLE TO REGULAR HUMAN
BEINGS "sons of God and "daughters of God"
JUST LIKE IT SAYS AT THE END
OF THE GENEOLOGY "Adam, son of
God."
THE FOLLOWING SURAH SUMS UP OUR
DIFFERENCES AND THEN WE CAN ARGUE FOR THE
SAKE OF ARGUMENT ONLY, HOWEVER
GOD ALMIGHTY SAYS IN THE QURAN NOT TO GO INTO
FUTILE ARGUMENTS AS IT LEADS
TO NOTHING BUT WASTE OF TIME, SO THE TIME CAN
BE WELL SPENT REMEMBERING,
THANKING AND GLORIFYING OUR ALMIGHTY
CREATOR
ATLEAST WE WILL GET SOME OF
HIS BLESSING AND MERCIES SHOWERED UPON US ( AND
I KNOW THAT YOU DON'T NEED
THAT AS JESUS CHRIST (p) HAS DIED FOR YOUR SINS
AND YOU HAVE ALREADY ACHIEVED
SALVATION THROUGH HIS BLOOD)
Surah Al-Kaafiroon
1. Say (O Muhammad () to
these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn
(disbelievers in Allâh, in His
Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His
Messengers, in the Day of
Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are
worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion
(Islâmic
Monotheism)."
AGAIN THANKS FOR WRITING AND
AGAIN I PRAY THAT GOD ALMIGHTY SHOW YOU THE
RIGHT PATH AND GUIDE YOU TO
THE TRUTH, AMEN!!!!!!!!
SINCERELY,
MAHMOOD
Subject: Re: PEACE TO YOU AS WELL!!!
Date: Mon, 15 Dec
2003 01:10:50 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: m khan
Salaam Mr. Khan,
Adab arz Mr. Khan. Aap kaise hai? Please forgive me if my Urdu is wrong, or if I have
said anything offensive. I'm just not
sure if what I said was the
way I am supposed to speak to an adult, or if it's respectful. In any case I mean the best.
Hopefully I'll get more time
to practice Urdu in the future.
I am sorry if I have written
too much in the following email. It
seemed that were many questions to be answered. May God
be glorified. If you don't have much time, wate until you
have a little bit to be able to read through the following. Otherwise it
may be smart to just print out
the email and then read when you have time on a break or something. I did not spell check, so if
it seems that I said something
strange or disrespectful, then give me the benefit of the doubt and you can ask
about it later.
Thank you for your patience.
On with the email, I will
quote what you said, and keep your words in CAPS as you have written them, and
underneath each
section of your words, I will
respond. So please scroll down to see
the rest. ....>>>
HI BRIAN:
THANKS FOR WRITING AND THANKS FOR THE NICE LETTER. I READ THROUGH YOU
LETTER AND THE ATTACHMENT HOWEVER I DIFFER WITH THE EXPLANATION
BECAUSE WE
ARE CLOSER TO THE OTHER FACTIONS OF CHRISTIANS THAN THE ONES YOU
ARE TRYING
TO EXPLAIN ABOUT JESUS CHRIST P.B.U.H (PEACE BE UPON HIM).
Thank you for reading the
discussion. Hopefully you read it
slowly and completely, for the concepts build upon each other, and
in the end wrap up the whole
point of the discussion, that being "How are you getting to
heaven". If you are hoping for
God's
grace and forgiveness, it
talks about that: saying God has three
choices: 1, To forgive everyone; 2, To
forgive no one; or 3, To
forgive some. I would assume that you agree with the 3rd
choice. As do I. Further, the discussion progresses to
explain how
God is going to be fair: He has to be a perfect judge. But at the same time, God has to allow for
mercy if He is to fulfill his
other attribute of being
Love. I believe that the discussion
brings up some very serious questions that Islam would have a
difficult time answering,
.....despite whether Jesus Christ was God or not. I agree with you that there are many Christian
denominations that don't agree
on many of the mainline doctrines supposedly interpreted from the Bible. It is a subject of great
importance whether Jesus is
God or not. However, arguing over this
does not answer the question about the method or
medium of God's
forgiveness. One thing that ALL
Christians agree upon is that there needed to be a blood sacrifice of a
perfect "lamb" of
God to be able to create that propitiation for the sin of EVERY man, that
sacrifice being Jesus Christ.
If you read the discussion
again, it will soon show that as you and me choose the choices of what is
right. (i.e. choice 1,2, and
3 on who God forgives), that
there are only so many options, and soon, one has to concede that the only way
out is this sacrifice
that God's mercy gave. Whether or not you differ with the
explanation about 'who' Jesus really is, you have to logically and
completely ascertain whether
or not this medium of mercy, Jesus Christ, is the way out of the fix. Don't throw away the
argument just because certain
things don't sit well with you. I was
taught to eat the meat, and throw out the bones. If you find
any flaws in the argument
presented in the discussion, please bring those up so we can discuss them. The method of
forgiveness and the medium of
mercy is the key.
THERE ARE OTHER
DENOMINATIONS IN CHRISTIANITY THAT BELIEVE THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS GOD
ALMIGHTY AND JESUS CHRIST IS JESUS CHRIST LIKE FOR EXAMPLE JEVOHAH'S
WITNESSES AND THE UNITY CHURCH.
PLEASE TELL ME WHO IS RIGHT AMONG THE
DIFFERENT CHRISTIAN GROUPS I.E
CATHOLICS, ANGLICAN, LUTHERANS,
PRESBYTARIANS, UNITARIANS, UNITY CHRUCH, JEVOHAH'S WITNESSES,
JESUS CHRIST
AND THE LATTER DAY SAINTS (MORMONS), SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST, BORN
AGAIN
CHRISTIANS OR SO MANY
OTHERS WHO ALL CLAIM TO BE ON THE RIGHT
PATH AND WHO
CLAIM THAT THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY AND POSITVELY RIGHT, WHO FOLLOW THE BIBLE TO
THE LETTER AND WHO ARE SO CONVINCED THAT THEIR INTERPRETATION IS
THE THE
RIGHT ONE, THEY HAVE NO
PLACE FOR ANY OTHER EXPLANATION OR ARGUMENT.
You've listed some
"so-called" denominations of "Christianity" above. And you ask who is right. If this questions is so
important, may I also ask a
question: which denomination is right
is Islam out of the Ahmadiyya, An-Nusayriyyah ("Alawis"),
Nation of Islam, Yazidis,
Ismailis, Kemalism, Zaydis, Dawoodi Bohra, Sufiis, Shiites, Sunnis, and the
hundreds of many other
sects? Which is the right Islam. Your response would be the same as mine, in
that many of the sects of denominations listed
aren't true followers of the
respective religion. Jehovah's
Witnesses?? Have you heard how radical and loony their teachings
are? They don't follow the Bible.
They may pick and choose certain scriptures here and there and then
re-interpret them and
expand them to make a whole
new doctrine, but surely they don't follow the core beliefs of Jesus. The unitarians aren't even
considered Christians, and the
Mormons believe that they can become god's in their celestial bodies. This is not Christianity, as
you would also appeal that
many of the sects of Islam aren't really following Islam. We are both in the same boat. And I'm
sure we both have good
explanations about it. Just because
some people claim to be followers of something, it doesn't mean
that it is so.
I will quote some verses from
the Qur'an that also puts some of this burden upon you. These verses relate that a true relgion
woul not break into
sects. What does the fact that there
are many sects say about Islam?
42:13 The same religion has He established for you
as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have
sent by inspiration to thee -
and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should
remain
steadfast in religion, and
make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than God, hard is
the (way) to which thou
callest them. God chooses to Himself
those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
6:159 As for those who divide their religion and
break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is
with
God: He will in the end tell
them the truth of all that they did.
30:032 Those who split up their Religion, and
become (mere) Sects, - each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!
PLEASE CONVINCE THESE PEOPLE FIRST AND THEN ONCE YOU HAVE DONE
THAT AND FIND
OUT WHICH ONE OF THEM IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THEN LET ME KNOW IF YOU
WERE ABLE
TO COME TO A CONCLUSION WHICH ONE SHOULD ACCEPT AS SPEAKING THE
TRUTH. I
FOLLOW THE QURAN JUST LIKE YOU DO THE BIBLE
Basically, I can group many of
the sects together and discard their teachings because the are
"extra" teachings not of Jesus, but
brought by later
"Apostles". For instance,
Mormonism was birthed after Joseph Smith received the revelation in the form of
the
Book of Mormon. Other sects appeal to other revelations
extraneous to the Bible. This is why I
am so wary of following
them, cause they have extra
messages that are in contradiction to the Bible. The Catholics also appeal to the Catechism and
writings by the
"fathers", all being in contradiction to the Bible. I can throw out these beleifs because Jesus
didn't teach them,
Moses didn't teach them, and
Abraham didn't teach them.
This is also the same vein
that I feel Islam would be dealt with also.
It claims to beleive that Jesus was a prophet of God, but
then claims to have this new
revelation, the Qur'an. And since it
does not line up with the Bible, then I am wary of accepting
it. To sum up my beleifs on which denominations are right, I will say
the same thing that you said. You
follow the book. You
follow the Qur'an. As I follow the Bible. If it is taught in the Bible, then I will
believe it. These other denominations
don't
teach from the Bible, so they
are wrong. Just as the Sufis don't
teach from the Qur'an, and the Nation of Islam doesn't teach
from the Qur'an, you would say
they are wrong too. Again, we are in
the same boat. It makes me feel safe to
know that you
believe from the Qur'an, just
as I believe from the Bible. This means
that our talks will be more progressive, because now all
we have to do is compare these
two books and see where the dicrepencies are.
May God lead us both to a productive seach
and comparison. :)
AND FROM WHAT I LEARNED FROM
THE BRIEF READING OF THE BIBLE (ALSO ATTENDED A CATHOLIC SCHOOL
FOR 8 YEARS
AND SEVENT DAY ADVENTIST FOR 3 YEARS) IS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS
LOOKING UP TO
THE HOLY FATHER FOR HELP ALL THE TIME AND HE HIMSELF IS ASKING EVERYONE TO
WORSHIP HIM AND HIM ALONE,THE FATHER OF ALL CREATION. LIKE IT IS
MENTIONED
IN THE BIBLE TO REGULAR HUMAN BEINGS "sons of God and
"daughters of God"
JUST LIKE IT SAYS AT THE END OF THE GENEOLOGY "Adam, son of God."
We can discuss this in the
future more. But I believe that the key
is the subject of FORGIVENESS, as I've said above.
THE FOLLOWING SURAH SUMS UP OUR DIFFERENCES AND THEN WE CAN ARGUE
FOR THE
SAKE OF ARGUMENT ONLY, HOWEVER GOD ALMIGHTY SAYS IN THE QURAN NOT
TO GO INTO
FUTILE ARGUMENTS AS IT LEADS TO NOTHING BUT WASTE OF TIME, SO THE
TIME CAN
BE WELL SPENT REMEMBERING, THANKING AND GLORIFYING OUR ALMIGHTY CREATOR
I agree with the Qur'an then,
in the respect. Because it is a waste
of time to argue with somebody who really isn't seeking
God's truth, but who is just
trying to show off who is right, and get glory for himself. We must always be ready to humble
ourselves when we see God's
light shine through to us, letting us know the truth. May we both be ready to accept what God
shows us in our conversations.
Do you think that our dialogue
is a waste of time?
ATLEAST WE WILL GET SOME OF HIS BLESSING AND MERCIES SHOWERED
UPON US ( AND
I KNOW THAT YOU DON'T NEED THAT AS JESUS CHRIST (p) HAS DIED FOR
YOUR SINS
AND YOU HAVE ALREADY ACHIEVED SALVATION THROUGH HIS BLOOD)
Amen!!
Surah Al-Kaafiroon
1. Say (O Muhammad () to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn):
"O Al-Kâfirûn
(disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His
Books, in His
Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are
worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion
(Islâmic
Monotheism)."
Yes, I like this Surah. It has much truth in it. Other Ayas that I would like to quote would
help show that it is every muslim's
duty to seach diligently and
truthfully the evidence that is set before him. I hope that his provokes you to keep our dialogue in
movement, and to beleieve that
God is doing a mighty work between us.
Here are the verses:
4:94 O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of God,
investigate carefully, and say not to any one who
offers you a salutation:
"Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this
life:
with God are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye
yourselves before, till God conferred on
you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For God is well
aware of all that ye do.
27:64 Or, Who originates creation, then repeats
it, and who gives you sustenance from heaven and earth?
(Can there be another) god
besides God? Say, "Bring forth your argument, if ye are telling the
truth!"
21:24 Or have they taken for worship (other) gods
besides him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof: this is the Message
of those with me and the
Message of those before me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so
turn away.
6:148 Those who give partners (to God) will say:
"If God had wished, we should not have given partners to
Him nor would our fathers; nor
should we have had any taboos." So did their ancestors argue falsely,
until they tasted of Our
wrath. Say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us.
Ye follow nothing
but conjecture: ye do nothing
but lie."
2:111 And they say: "None shall enter
Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain)
desires. Say:
"Produce your proof if ye
are truthful."
37:157 Then bring ye your Book (of authority) if ye
be truthful!
16:125 Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with
wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that
are best and most gracious:
for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, andwho receive
guidance.
13:40 Whether We shall show thee (within thy
life-time) part of what we promised them or take to ourselves
thy soul (before it is all accomplished), - thy duty is to make
(the Message) reach them: it is our part to call them to
account.
Hopefully, when you say
"Produce your proof," and when I try to give it, you will,
"Investigate carefully." And
the same goes
for me. I will investigate your claims as truthfully
as possible with the heart that is seeking God. Thank you for your precious
time. May we both seek God openly.
AGAIN THANKS FOR WRITING AND AGAIN I PRAY THAT GOD ALMIGHTY SHOW
YOU THE
RIGHT PATH AND GUIDE YOU TO THE TRUTH, AMEN!!!!!!!!
SINCERELY,
MAHMOOD
Thank you for writing your thoughts. I pray that God shows us both the right
path. It has been a pleasure talking to
you thus
far. Hopefully we will have the chance to talk more, and even in
person. God bless you Mr. Khan. And have a good night.
In Christ,
Brian Lucero
Subject: peace
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 22:04:27 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: "Mr. Khan"
Peace Mr. Khan,
I hope that you recieved my last email (I have not heard from you in a
while, so I am was not sure). In either case, I was wondering if you
would like to get together some time this break (which lasts up until
around Jan 20), for I have much more free time.
I hope that your family is doing well and is under God's supernatural
protection. "Seek God, and life will find you." May God lead you
continually. Have a good night Mr. Khan :)
In Christ's love,
brian j lucero
Subject: RE: peace
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:28:12 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
HI BRIAN:
PEACE TO YOU AS WELL, I DID
GET YOUR EMAIL HOWEVER BEEN BUSY WITH FAMILY,
WORK AND BUSINESS. LIKE I TOLD YOU BEFORE WE CAN GET TOGETHER
AND DISCUSS
OUR BELIEFS HOWEVER TRUE
GUIDANCE COMES FROM GOD ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF ALL
THINGS IN THE UNIVERSE
INCLUDING JESUS CHRIST(PEACE BE UPON HIM).
YOU CAN CALL ME ANYTIME AFTER
11 AM AND IF I NOT AT ANY OF MY BUILDINGS
WORKING OR ON A FLIGHT THEN WE
CAN GET TOGETHER I CANNOT GIVE YOU ANY
SPECIFIC TIME OR DATE.
THANKS
M. KHAN
Subject: Re: PEACE TO YOU AS WELL!!!
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:26:23 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
Hi Brian :
I have been trying to juggle between by job, apartments and family and have
been unable to meet with you. I will call you Inshallah (God willing) soon.
Meanwhile please read the following. Also please pay attention to verse
in the Holy Bible, ACTS 2:22 .
<http://www.drzakirnaik.com/pages/qanda/39.php>
Sincerely
Subject: Hello Mr. Khan 1 -Response to Zakir Naik's Claims for the Quran 2
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:22:07 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: "Mr. Khan"
Hello Mr. Khan,
Thank you for writing again. I read through all of the article that you
sent me. It was very interesting to say the least. What I see
happening here is that our focus is always being rebounded back to the
Qur'an and its authenticity. I have tried to focus more on forgiveness
and the logic of only two choices after death, the logic of only three
options for forgiveness, and so on. Because a TRUE relgion has to be
able to answer the most fundamental questions of forgiveness and the
life after death. It seems these issues are not being fairly looked at
as of yet. Hopefully we will have the opportunity to honestly weigh
these issues with impartiality.
As it seems that the Qur'an is the issue closest to your heart, I will
start to reply to some of the claims that you bring up. This I hope
will set the balance and allow for both of us to truly analyze the
other's stance. All I ask for is honesty and commitment. Too often
when people of different views talk about their differences, the
situation will only last as a sparkler - it will go on for a little
while with sparks flying, but offences and personal feelings soon set
the two apart from each other, and quickly the dialogue dies. It is
really easy to become offended by another person's remark or view. I
want to tell you that I my heart is not to offend you or to degrade your
religion. Please put us with me as I put up with you. Let's keep a
spirit of peace and optimism about the other.
I fairly read through all the points made in your emails. Let it be
mutual. Many of the following claims are based off of Bukari and
Islamically attested writings from the most renown Islamic theologins.
They must hold some water.
Thank you, and please read on below.
In deepest care,
Brian
The following are points made with focus on the Qur'an's "infallible
source".
<<http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Naik/quranclaims2.htm>>
Subject: Hello Mr. Khan 2 -On Muhammad Borrowing from the Holy Bible [Response to Zakir Naik's Claims for the Quran 3]
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:25:31 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: "Mr. Khan"
Peace again,
Here are some more points of evidence that help contribute to our
discussion about the sources of the Qur'an. In the last article you
sent me, it stated many things of which I believe you will be surprised
after comtemplating the following article. Please fairly read it, as I
do your's.
Peace from the ONE true God,
brian
<<http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Naik/quranclaims3.htm>>
Subject:
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:48:15 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
HI BRIAN:
THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THE
QURAN NOT BEING THE WORD OF GOD ALMIGHTY
BY DIFFERENT
PERSONALITIES. HOWEVER GOD GUIDES WHOM
HE WILLS AND
LEADS ASTRAY WHOM HE WILLS,
AS MENTIONED IN VERSE 31 BELOW. YOU
MENTIONED FORGIVENESS AND
LIFE AFTER DEATH AND I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM
IN BELIEVING IN THAT, FOR GOD
ALMIGHTY SAYS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND
THROUGHOUT THE QURAN THAT HE
IS THE MOST FORGIVING OF THOSE WHO
FORGIVE AND MOST MERCIFUL OF THOSE
WHO SHOW MERCY. THE HEREAFTER I.E
LIFE AFTER DEATH IS ALSO
MENTIONED NUMEROUS TIMES. I DO NOT SEE ANY POINT
IN THIS FUTILE ARGUEMENT, TO
YOU YOUR BELIEFS AND TO ME MINE. WE WILL GET
OUR ANSWERS ON THE DAY OF
JUDGEMENT. THERE IS NO POINT OF YOUR
TRYING
TO CONVINCE ME OR VICE VERSA.
TO ME THE HOLY QURAN IS BOOK OF GOD
ALMIGHTY AND I WOSHIP HIM
ALONE. ONLY GOD ALMGIHTY CAN MAKE THE
BLIND TO SEE AND THE DEAF TO
HEAR SO, IF AFTER READING THE QURAN YOU DO
NOT SEE THE LIGHT THEN LIKE I
MENTIONED IN MY EARLIER EMAILS THAT TO YOU
YOUR FAITH AND TO ME
MINE. TRUTH WILL PREVAIL, IT IS JUST A
MATTER OF
TIME. YOU ARE WAITING AND SO
AM I.
SINCERELY
M. KHAN
Surah Al-Muddathir
1. O you (Muhammad ) enveloped (in garments)!
2. Arise and warn!
3. And your Lord (Allâh) magnify!
4. And your garments purify!
5. And keep away from Ar-Rujz (the idols)!
6. And give not a thing in order to have more (or consider not
your deeds of Allâh's obedience as a
favour to Allâh).
7. And be patient for the sake of your Lord (i.e. perform your
duty to Allâh)!
8. Then, when the Trumpet is sounded (i.e. its second blowing);
9. Truly, that Day will be a Hard Day.
10. Far from easy for the disbelievers.
11. Leave Me Alone (to deal) with whom I created Alone (without
any means, i.e. Al-Walîd bin
Al-Mughîrah Al-Makhzûmî)!
12. And then granted him resources in abundance.
13. And children to be by his side!
14. And made life smooth and comfortable for him!
15. After all that he desires that I should give more;
16. Nay! Verily, he has been stubborn and opposing Our Ayât
(proofs, evidences, verses, lessons,
signs, revelations, etc.).
17. I shall oblige him to (climb a slippery mountain in the Hell-fire
called AsSa'ûd, or to) face a
severe torment!
18. Verily, he thought and plotted;
19. So let him be cursed! How he plotted!
20. And once more let him be cursed, how he plotted!
21. Then he thought;
22. Then he frowned and he looked in a bad tempered way;
23. Then he turned back and was proud;
24. Then he said: "This is nothing but magic from that of
old;
25. "This is nothing but the word of a human being!"
26. I will cast him into Hell-fire
27. And what will make you know exactly what Hell-fire is?
28. It spares not (any sinner), nor does it leave (anything
unburnt)!
29. Burning the skins!
30. Over it are nineteen (angels as guardians and keepers of
Hell).
31. And We have set none but angels as guardians of the Fire,
and We have fixed their number (19)
only as a trial for the
disbelievers, in order that the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)
may
arrive at a certainty [that
this Qur'ân is the truth as it agrees with their Books i.e. their number (19)
is
written in the Taurât (Torah)
and the Injeel (Gospel)] and the believers may increase in Faith (as this
Qur'ân is the truth) and that
no doubts may be left for the people of the Scripture and the believers, and
that those in whose hearts is
a disease (of hypocrisy) and the disbelievers may say: "What Allâh intends
by this (curious) example
?" Thus Allâh leads astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And
none can know the hosts of
your Lord but He. And this (Hell) is nothing else than a (warning) reminder
to mankind.
32. Nay, and by the moon,
33. And by the night when it withdraws,
34. And by the dawn when it brightens,
35. Verily, it (Hell, or their denial of the Prophet Muhammad ,
or the Day of Resurrection) is but
one of the greatest
calamities.
36. A warning to mankind,
37. To any of you that chooses to go forward (by working
righteous deeds), or to remain behind (by
commiting sins),
38. Every person is a pledge for what he has earned,
39. Except those on the Right, (i.e. the pious true believers
of Islâmic Monotheism);
40. In Gardens (Paradise) they will ask one another,
41. About Al-Mujrimûn (polytheists, criminals, disbelievers,
etc.), (And they will say to them):
42. "What has caused you to enter Hell?"
43. They will say: "We were not of those who used to offer
their Salât (prayers)
44. "Nor we used to feed Al-Miskin (the poor);
45. "And we used to talk falsehood (all that which Allâh
hated) with vain talkers .
46. "And we used to belie the Day of Recompense
47. "Until there came to us (the death) that is
certain."
48. So no intercession of intercessors will be of any use to
them.
49. Then what is wrong with them (i.e. the disbelievers) that
they turn away from (receiving)
admonition?
50. As if they were frightened (wild) donkeys.
51. Fleeing from a hunter, or a lion, or a beast of prey.
52. Nay, everyone of them desires that he should be given pages
spread out (coming from Allâh with
a writing that Islâm is the
right religion, and Muhammad has come with the truth from Allâh the Lord of
the heavens and earth, etc.).
53. Nay! But they fear not the Hereafter (from Allâh's
punishment).
54. Nay, verily, this (Qur'ân) is an admonition,
55. So whosoever will (let him read it), and receive admonition
(from it)!
56. And they will not receive admonition unless Allâh wills; He
(Allâh) is the One, deserving that
mankind should be afraid of,
and should be dutiful to Him, and should not take any Ilâh (God) along
with Him, and He is the One
Who forgives (sins).
Previous Surah
Index
Next Surah
Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:45:30 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
To: m khan
Salaam,
You are welcome. I agree that the truth will prevail and that on the day of judgement we will all know the truth when God reveals it to us. I am not worried that God won't provide us with that knowledge. However, I am worried that God will have to SHOW people the truth after it is too late. I am worried about people coming to the day of judgement and being horrified because they didn't care enough about their own soul to give the truth a fair trial in their life and finding out that they so in fact did not hold the truth but rather a grand deception. Of course God knows the truth, and of course it will prevail. But do you care enough about people, do I care enough about people, to keep on giving more sacrifices of our time, our efforts, our life to those who keep on rejecting? I know that it seems futile, that we have our differences and our different religions, to try and convince the other. But if your brother was about to jump off of the bridge to his death you would not just sit there and say "To your choice be your destiny, and to my choice be my destiny." NO, you would try with all your ability to stop him (whether it be
psychologically or physically) because you LOVE him. Yes truth will be revealed at the end. But who but the un-loving want to wait till then to find out, when they can spend all this time on God's given opportunity to search out the truth and even help the rejectors to search it out through dialogue.
About forgiveness: I do recognize that Islam knows about forgiveness. (According to surah 16:61 everyone better hope to be forgiven). That is not what I am trying to dispute. However, Allah forgives whom he wills. As you said, "He guides whom he wills and leads astray whom he wills." That is my whole point. Allah has no standard for who he is going to forgive. You don't know who will be granted forgiveness. You don't know if you will be forgiven. The most perfect men on earth are able to be sent to hell by Allah's wrath. And the most wicked of men may be granted eternal paradise. This seems like the character of a capricious person. That is not the way Moses described Almighty God. That is not the way David described Almighty God. And that is not the way Jesus described Almighty God. How can the God of this next revelation (the Qur'an) be the same God as of the three aforementioned? That is why the METHOD of forgiveness matters so much. It gives a hint to which God we are taking command from.
Let me ask you: Why does the Muslim world reinact the killing of some animal on Id Al-Athha? Why did Abraham need to
shed blood?
May God guide you to the truth,
In sincere love and respect,
Brian
Subject: how do you...
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:47:03 -0600
From: Brian Lucero <brian@lucerofamily.com>
BCC: "Mr. Khan" , Abdullah Khan
Hello again Mr. Khan,
I already replied to your email today, but as I was trying to fall asleep I kept on thinking about what you said in your email about "To you be your religion, and to me my religion." And it seemed that you didn't much care about my welfare in this pursuit of truth in our dialogue. You didn't give any response to the articles, or should I say the points made in the articles, I sent you about the Qur'an. I sincerely desire to be on good ground in your 'relations book', and I sincerely desire to see our relationship progress into friendship with mutual respect. But what kept me from sleeping was this sincere curiosity about your conscience. How do you respond to the facts made in those articles that I sent? What do you tell yourself to appease your conscience about these points?
You say that the Qur'an is perfect because it comes from God. The Qur'an claims to be perfect, with no error or contradiction, in pure Arabic. Therefore, grammatically, scientifically, and historically, the Qur'an has to be 100% correct.
1. ) Pure Arabic.
Here are a list of words in the Qur'an that are KNOWN to not be Arabic: But according to Arabic scholars the Quran is not in pure Arabic, containing dozens of foreign words:
Abariq S. 56:18 Persian
Adam S. 2:34 Akkadian
Araik S. 18:31 Persian
Firdaus S. 18:107 Pahlavi
Fir'awn S. 73:15 Syriac
Habr S. 9:31 Hebrew (Haver)
Istabraq S. 18:31
Persian (Istabar)
Sakina S. 2:248 Hebrew
Sijjil (baked clay) S. 105:4 Persian
Taghut (idols) S. 2:257 Syriac (Teghutha)
Zakat S. 2:1 10 Syriac (Zkhutha)
Zanjabil (ginger)
S. 76:17 Pahlavi
2.) No Grammatical Errors:
After seeing the first standard copy of the Quran, Islam's third Caliph Uthman proclaimed, "I see grammatical errors in it, and the Arabs will read it correctly with their tongues."
Here are a list of Grammatical Errors in the Arabic. Any Arabic Grammarian will tell you the obvious. There is no one who disagrees with this, non-muslim or Muslim. I will put the list in 10-point font so you will have better organization. I will only cite two such errors for the sake of length in this email. Remember, only ONE error makes the Qur'an not perfect.
The First Error
In 5:69
"Surely they that
believe, and those of Jewry, and the Sabaeans, and the Christians, whosoever
believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness - no fear shall be on
them, neither shall they sorrow." (Arberry)
"Innal-laziina 'aamanuu wal-laziina haaduu was-Saabi'uuna
wan-Nasaaraa man 'aamana bilaahi
wal-Yawmil-'Aakhiri wa 'amila saali-hanfalaa khaw-fun
'alay-him wa laa hum yah-zanuun."
There is a grammatical error
in the above verse. The word Saabi'uuna has been declined wrongly.
In two other verses, the same
word, in exactly the same grammatical setting was declined correctly.
2:62 "Innal-laziina 'aamanuu wal-laziina haaduu
wan-Nasaaraa was-Saabi'iina ..."
22:17 "Innal-laziina 'aamanuu wal-laziina haaduu was-Saabi'iina
wan-Nasaaraa ..."
You notice that the word was
written Saabi'uuna in 5:69 and was written Saabi'iina in 2:62 and 22:17. In the
last two verses the word was declined correctly because the word inna in the
beginning of the sentence causes a form of declension called "nasb"
(as in cases of accusative or subjunctive) and the "yeh" is the
"sign of nasb". But the word Saabi'uuna in 5:69 was given the 'uu,
waw which is the sign of "raf'a" (as in cases of nominative or
indicative). This then is an obvious grammatical error.
The Second Error
In 4:162
"But those of them that are firmly rooted in knowledge,
and the believers believing in what has been sent down to thee, and what was
sent down before thee, that perform the prayer and pay the alms, and those who
believe in God and the Last Day - them We shall surely give a mighty
wage." (Arberry)
"Laakinir-Raasi-khuuna fil-'ilmi minhum wal-Mu'-minuuna
yu'-minuuna bi-maaa 'unzila 'ilayka wa maaa 'unzila min-qablika wal-muqiimiin
as-Salaata wal mu'-tuunaz-Zakaata wal-Mu'-mi-nuuna billaahi wal-Yawmil-'Aakhir:
'ulaaa 'ika sanu'-tii-him 'ajran 'aziimaa."
The word muqiimiin should be
muqiimuun. The word should be declined by the "raf'a sign" like the
other nouns in the sentence. Indeed the two nouns before it (Raasi-khuun and
Mu'-minuun), and the noun after it (mu'-tuun) are declined correctly. Some have
argued that this word was declined as such to distinguish and praise the act of
praying, but the scholar Ibn al-Khatib says that this is a sick reasoning. (al-Furqan by Mohammad M.
'abd al-Latif Ibn al-Katib, Dar al-Kutub al-'elmiyah, Beirut, p.43). Such reasoning defies logic. Why would one
distinguishe prayer which is a branch of religion, and not faith which is the
fundamental and root of religion? Besides can this logic apply to the error of
declension in the previous verse? Do we conclude that the Saabi'iin are more
distinguished than those who believe, and the People of the Book? And why do
they get distinguished in one verse and not the other as we have seen? God is
much higher than this sick logic. This again is an obvious grammatical error.
(The above taken from: <<http://debate.domini.org/newton/grammar.html>>)
3.) No Variant Qur'anic
readings.
Muslims always claim that the Qur'an has not been changed - that it is perfect in transmission. If this is the case, then why are there presently variant readings in the Arabic? Here is a list of a few variations. To see the actual arabic, please go here
(http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm#compare), for I could not paste the arabic script.
THE QUR'AN ACCORDING TO THE
TRANSMISSION OF IMAM HAFS
THE QUR'AN ACCORDING
TO THE
TRANSMISSION OF IMAM
WARSH
surah 2:132 (wawassaa)
surah 2:131
(wa'awsaa)
surah 91:15 (wa laa yakhaafu)
surah 91:15 (fa laa
yakhaafu)
surah 2:132 (himu)
surah 2:131 (hiimu)
surah 3:133 (wasaari'uu)
surah 3:133
(saari'uu)
surah 5:54 (yartadda)
surah 5:56 (yartadid)
4.) Source of Qur'an is
from Allah.
Muslims boast that the source of the Qur'an is from Allah alone - that Muhammad copied nothing from any human or jinn. I will give only one such example for the sake of length (but take note, there are many dozen more). This is very interesting. I will give the quote from a Jewish targam that was in existence long before Muhammad's time. Then I will give the quote from the Qur'an. You are able to see that they are amlost identical. You may rebut by saying that if God almighty gave the revelation to the Jews AND to Muhammad, then the story SHOULD be the same, so there is no problem. Well, the thing is that the Targams are not revelation from God, but fairy tales told by the Jews. Many of these fairy tales started out by a mistranslation by a Jewish commentator, where he made an obvious mistake, and so the tales was spurned. Why is an obvious Jewish mistake repeated in the Qur'an?
Story of the Queen of Sheba's
visit to Solomon.
Here is the Qur'an's
account taken from (Surah XXVII., An Naml, v. 17 and vv. 20-45)
"And his hosts
(composed) of jinns and men and birds were gathered together unto Solomon. And
he reviewed the birds: then He said, ‘What (hath happened) to me that I do not
see the hoopoe (hudhud)? Or is it among the absentees? Truly I shall punish it
with severe punishment. Either I shall slaughter it assuredly, or it shall
surely bring me clear proof39.’ Accordingly it delayed not long. Then it said:
‘I am aware of what thou art not aware of, and I have come to thee from Sheba40
with sure information. Verily I found a woman who reigneth over them and who is
brought some of everything, and she hath a great throne. And I found her and
her people worshipping the Sun instead of God, and Satan hath made their deeds
attractive
unto them, and hath turned
them aside from the way, therefore they are not guided aright so that they
should worship God, who bringeth forth what is concealed in the heavens and the
earth, and knoweth what ye hide and what ye reveal. God! there is no god but
He, the Lord of the Great Throne.’ He said, ‘We shall see whether thou hast
spoken truly or art among the liars. Go thou with this my epistle, and cast it
down to them; then turn thou away from them: then see what (answer) they will
return.’
"(The queen) said, ‘O
nobles, verily to me hath a gracious epistle been cast down: verily it is from
Solomon: verily it is "In the name
of God the Merciful, the Compassionate! Rise not up against me, but come unto
me submissively41."’ She said, ‘O nobles, instruct ye me in my matter: I
do not decide a matter until ye bear witness.’ They said, ‘We are men of
strength and of mighty courage and command (belongeth) unto thee: therefore see
thou what thou wilt command.’ She said, ‘Verily when kings enter a city, they
destroy it and make humble the most honoured of its people, even so do they.
And verily I do send unto them a gift and see with what (answer) the messengers
return.’
"Accordingly when (the
messenger) came to Solomon, (the king) said, ‘Do ye increase my goods? since
what God hath brought me is better than what He hath brought you. Nay, ye boast
of your gift. Return thou to them: for indeed we shall come to them with hosts
which they cannot resist, and we shall expel them from it (the country)
humbled, and they shall be small.’ He said, ‘O nobles, which of you will bring
me her throne, before they come to me
submissively41?’ An 'Ifrit of the jinns said, ‘I shall bring it to thee
before thou risest up from thy place, and verily I am indeed able to do it (and
am) faithful.’ He who had knowledge from the Book said, ‘I shall bring it to
thee before thy glance shall return42 to thee.’ When, therefore, (Solomon) saw
it placed beside him, he said, ‘This is from my Lord's favour, that he may
prove me, whether I be grateful or ungrateful. And he who is grateful is
grateful indeed for himself, and he who is ungrateful, verily my Lord is rich
and gracious.’
"He said, ‘Alter her
throne for her! we shall see whether she is rightly guided or is among those
who are not guided aright.’ Accordingly, when she came, it was said, ‘Is this
thy throne?’ She said, ‘It is as if it were.’ ‘And we were brought knowledge
before she was, and became Muslims: And that which she used to worship instead
of God hath led her astray: verily she is of an unbelieving people.’ It was
said to her, ‘Enter the palace.’ When therefore she saw it, she accounted it an
abyss, and she uncovered her legs. He said, ‘Verily it is a palace paved with
glass.’ She said, ‘O my Lord, verily I have wronged my soul, and I resign43
myself along with Solomon to God, the Lord of the worlds.’"
Second Targum on Esther, which is printed in the Miqraoth Gedoloth. Here is the Jewish Targum's account:
"Again, when King
Solomon's heart was merry with his wine, he commanded to bring the beasts of
the field and the fowls of the air and the creeping things of the earth and the
jinns and the spirits and the night-goblins to dance before him, in order to
show his greatness to all the kings who were prostrating themselves before him.
And the king's scribes summoned them by their names, and they all assembled and
came unto him, except the prisoners and except the captives and except the man
who took charge of them. At that hour the cock of the desert was enjoying
himself among the birds and was not found. And the king commanded concerning
him that they should bring him by force, and wished to destroy him. The cock of
the desert
returned to King Solomon's
presence and said to him, ‘Hearken, my lord the king of the earth, incline
thine ear and hear my words. Is it not three months ago that I took counsel in
my heart and formed a firm resolution with myself that I would not eat, and
would not drink water, before I had seen the whole world and flown about in it?
And I said, Which province or kingdom is there that is not obedient to my lord
the
king? I beheld and saw a
fortified city, the name of which is Qitor, in an eastern land. The dust is
heavy with gold, and silver is like dung in the streets, and trees have been
planted there from the beginning; and from the Garden of Eden do they drink
water. There are there great multitudes with garlands on their heads. From
there are plants from the Garden of Eden, because it is near unto it. They know
how to shoot with the bow, but cannot be slain with the bow. One woman rules
over them all, and her name is the Queen of Sheba. Now if it please thee, my
lord the king, this person45 will gird up my loins, and I shall rise up and go
to the fortress of Qitor, to the city of Sheba; I shall "bind their kings
with chains and their nobles with links of iron," and shall bring them
unto my lord the King.’ And the saying was pleasing before the king, and the
king's scribes were called, and they wrote a letter and fastened the letter to
the wing of the cock of the desert. And he arose and went up high into the sky
and bound on his tiara and grew strong, and flew among the birds. And they flew
after him. And they went to the fortress of Qitor, to the city of Sheba. And it
came to pass at morning time that the Queen of Sheba went forth by the sea to
worship. And the birds darkened the
sun; and she laid her hand upon her garments and rent them, and she became
surprised and troubled. And when she was troubled, the cock of the desert came
down to her, and she saw, and lo! a letter was fastened to his wing. She opened
and read it. And this was what was
written in it:— ‘From me, King Solomon. Peace be to thee, peace be to thy
nobles! Forasmuch as thou knowest that the Holy One, blessed be He! has made me
King over the beasts of the field, and over the fowls of the air, and over
jinns and over spirits and over night-goblins, and all the kings of the East
and the West and the South and the North come and inquire about my health
(peace): now, if thou art willing and dost come and inquire after my health,
well: I shall make thee greater than all the kings that bow down before me. And
if thou art not willing and dost not come nor inquire after my health, I shall
send against thee kings and legions and horsemen. And if thou sayest, ‘What
kings and legions and horsemen has King Solomon?’ — the beasts of the field are
kings and legions and horsemen. And if thou sayest, ‘What horsemen?’ — the
fowls of the air are horsemen, my armies are spirits and jinns, and the
night-goblins are legions that shall strangle you in your beds within your
houses: the beasts of the field shall slay you in the field; the birds of the
air shall eat your flesh
from off you.’ And when the
Queen of Sheba heard the words of the letter, again a second time she laid her
hand upon her garments and rent them. She sent and called the elders and
nobles, and said to them, ‘Do ye not know what King Solomon has sent to me?’
They answered and said, ‘We do not know King Solomon nor do we make any account
of his kingdom.’ But she was not contented, nor did she hearken unto their
words, but she sent and called all the ships of the sea and loaded them with
offerings and jewels and precious stones.
And she sent unto him six thousand boys and girls, and all of them were
born in the same (one) year, and all of them were born in one month, and all of
them were born in one day, and all of them were born in one hour, and all of
them were of the same stature, and all of them were of the same figure, and all
of them were clad in purple garments And she wrote a letter and sent it to King
Solomon by their hands. ‘From the
fortress of Qitor to the land of Israel is seven years journey. Now through thy
prayers and through thy petitions which I entreat of thee, I shall come to thee
at the end of three years.’ And it came to pass at the end of three years that
the Queen of Sheba came to King Solomon.
And when King Solomon heard that the Queen of Sheba had come, he sent
unto her Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, who was like the dawn that rises at
morning-time, and resembled the Star of Splendour (Venus) which shines and
stands firm among the stars, and was similar to the lily which stands by the
water-courses. And when the Queen of Sheba saw Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, she
alighted from the chariot. Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, answered and said to her,
‘Why hast thou alighted from thy chariot?’ She answered and said to him, ‘Art
not thou King Solomon?’ He answered and said to her, ‘I am not King Solomon,
but one of his servants who stand before him.’ And forthwith she turned her
face behind her and uttered a parable to the nobles, ‘If the lion has not
appeared to you, ye have seen his offspring, and if ye have not seen King
Solomon ye have seen the beauty of a man who stands before him.’ And Benaiah,
son of Jehoiada, brought her before the king. And when the king heard that she
had come to him, he arose and went and sat in a crystal house. And when the
Queen of
Sheba saw that the king sat
in a crystal house, she considered in her heart and said that the king sat in
water, and she gathered up her garment that she might cross over, and he saw
that she had hair on her legs. The king answered and said unto her, ‘Thy beauty
is the beauty of women, and thy hair is the hair of a man; and hair is
beautiful for a man, but for a woman it is disgraceful.’ The Queen of Sheba
answered and said to him, ‘My lord the king, I shall utter to thee three
parables, which if thou explain to me, I shall know that thou art a wise man,
and if not, thou art as the rest of men.’ (Solomon solved all three problems.)
And she said, ‘Blessed be the Lord thy God who delighted in thee to seat thee
upon the throne of the kingdom to do judgment and justice.’ And she gave unto
the king good gold and silver. ... And the king gave her all that she
desired."
In this Jewish narrative we
see that there is mention made of certain puzzles which the Queen of Sheba
desired Solomon to solve for her. Although this matter is not mentioned in the
Qur'an, yet it is all recorded in the Traditions. And since what the Qur'an says with regard to the Queen's
mistaking the crystal pavement for a deep pool of water is not quite so full an
account of the incident as that given in the Targum, certain Muhammadan writers
have filled up the details exactly. For instance, in the 'Araisu'l Majalis (p.
438) we read: "She uncovered her legs that she might wade through it, unto
Solomon. Then Solomon beheld her, and lo she was the fairest of women as to leg
and foot, except that she was hairy-legged. When therefore Solomon saw that, He
cried out to prevent her, and he called aloud to her,
‘Verily it is a palace paved
with g1ass.’"
The mention of the crystal
pavement may be due to a confused recollection of the "molten sea" in
the Temple at Jerusalem (1 Kings vii. 23). All the other marvels seem to be
purely Jewish fancies. The Jewish account is so evidently fabulous that it is
surprising that Muhammad so evidently believed it to be strictly true. But some
of the incidents mentioned can be somewhat more fully explained than others.
For instance, the idea (widely prevalent in the East to the present day) that
Solomon ruled over various kinds of evil spirits was derived from the Jews from
a misunderstanding46 of the Hebrew words
in Eccles. ii. 8.
These words probably mean
"a lady and ladies." But the commentators seem to have misunderstood
the terms, which occur nowhere else in the Bible, and to have explained them as
denoting certain demons (fem. of ). Hence he is spoken of in both the Jewish
legend and in the Qur'an as having armies composed of various kinds of spirits.
The story of the Merchant and the Jinni in the Arabian Nights is another
instance of the same belief. It is strange to find the Prophet Muhammad
emulating the writer of that wonderful book as a story-teller even though the
source of the Qur'anic tale is known. In credulity, however, Muhammad
undoubtedly eclipsed his
rival, for the latter cannot be supposed to have believed his own wondrous
tales, nor does he profess to have received them from above.
The historical basis for the
whole tale is afforded by the record given in 1 Kings x. 1-10 (and repeated in
2 Chron. ix. 1-9), which tells us nothing whatever marvellous about Solomon,
nothing about Jinns and 'Ifrits and crystal palaces, but is a simple narrative
of a visit paid to Solomon by the Queen of Sheba, a well-known part of Arabia.
"And when the Queen of
Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the Lord, she came to
prove him with hard questions. And she came to Jerusalem with a very great
train, with camels that bare spices and very much gold and precious stones: and
when she was come to Solomon, she communed with him of all that was in her
heart. And Solomon told her all her questions: there was not anything hid from
the king which he told her not. And when the queen of Sheba had seen all the
wisdom of Solomon, and the house that he had built, and the meat of his table,
and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their
apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house
of the Lord; there was no more spirit in her. And she said to the king, ‘It was
a true report that I heard in my own land of thy acts, and of thy wisdom.
Howbeit, I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it:
and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the
fame which I heard. Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which
stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom. Blessed be the Lord
thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because
the Lord loved Israel for ever, therefore made He thee king to do judgment and
justice.’ And she
gave the king an hundred and
twenty talents of gold, and of spices very great store, and precious stones:
there came no more such abundance of spices as those which the queen of Sheba
gave to King Solomon."
Although many others of the
narratives that are contained in the Qur'an have been borrowed from Jewish
fables, yet here it is not necessary to quote them all at length. In every case
Muhammad seems to have been ignorant of the true history of the Prophets as
related in the Canonical Books of the Old Testament. This was doubtless due to
the fact that the Jews of Arabia were not learned men, and that they were
better acquainted with the fables of the Talmud than with the Bible.
The above being taken from (http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Tisdall/Sources/chap3.htm).
5.) Source of Qur'an is from Allah alone, part
2.
What is very interesting is that many of the most renown Muslim authorities admit to the following account of Adbullah Ibn Sarh, who was Muhammad's scribe (i.e. -Al-Tabari, -Al-Wahidi, -Al-Sira by al-'Iraqi, -Al-Baidawi, and others). When Muhammad told the scribe what to write down, the scribe added stuff, and Muhammad said, "yes, this is from Allah too", and so it was put in the Qur'an. On many ocassions when Muhammad told the scribe to write something, the scribe wrote something else. For this reason, the scribe forsook Islam because he thought to himself that if he can change Allah's revelations, then this revelation is not really from the One true God. So he forsook Islam. And because of this, Muhammad killed him later. Another interesting note is that Muhammad lied to the scribe that he would be safe. So Muhammad lied in his face and then seconds later Muhammad scolded his followers for not killing the scribe when Muhammad said that he should not be killed.
'Abdullah ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi
Sarh Inspires the Revelation
Abdullah was one of
Muhammad's scribes who actually changed the revelation with Muhammad's
approval. In fact, according to some Muslims S. 6:93 was revealed concerning
Abi Sarh:
Who is more wicked than the man who invents a falsehood about
God, or says: "This was revealed to me", when nothing was revealed to
him? Or the man who says, "I can reveal the like of what God has
revealed"?
N.J. Dawood
According to the following
Muslim expositors the phrase, "I can reveal the like of what God has
revealed', refers specifically to Abi Sarh:
"Islamic commentators claim that the first part of this
verse refers to Musaylima (the false prophet), but that the second part is
about Abdallah b. Sa'd b. Abi Sarh. In fact, Abdallah was the scribe who wrote
down the so-called divine revelation for Muhammad and ended up becoming an
apostate. He later joined the polytheists (idolaters). Islamic expositors
provide us with a full account of the incident. When Sura Al-Muminun 23:12 was
inspired, 'Verily, we created man from a product of wet earth,' the Prophet
called him and dictated it to him until he finished with, 'and then produced it
another creation' (Sura Al-Muminun 23:14). At that moment, Abdallah was so
impressed with and amazed at the detailed stages of man's creation that he
said: 'Blessed be Allah, the best of creators!' (Sura Al-Muminun 23:14). Immediately Muhammad said, 'This is how it was
inspired to me.' This definitely made Abdallah very suspicious and he said to
himself: 'If Muhammad is a true prophet, then I also receive divine inspiration
(wahy) like him. And if he is false, I only say what he has said.' For this
reason, he deserted Islam and joined the idolaters. This is what the verse
means: 'I will reveal the like of that which Allah has revealed.' Al-Kalbi
related this account as he heard it from Ibn Abbas. Muhammad b. Ishaq also related it. He said: 'Shurahbil said to
me: "This verse was inspired regarding
Abdallah b. Sa'd b. Abi Sarh. I will reveal a similar inspiration like
that of Allah.' In fact, he deserted Islam.
When Muhammad entered Mecca, he commanded that he be killed, together
with Abdallah b. Khatal and Maqias b. Subaba even if they were to be found
hidden behind the Ka'ba curtains. Abdallah b. Sa'd b. Abi Sarh fled to Uthman,
who was his foster brother. So Uthman concealed him until he was brought to
Muhammad, having sensed security and safety from Uthman's assurance. Muhammad
kept silent for a long time, but then said:
'Yes!' When Uthman left, Muhammad said: 'I only kept silent so that some
of you may go and cut off his head.' A man from the Ansar said to him: 'Will
you make a gesture to do that for you?' Muhammad replied: 'The Prophet should
not give orders through an eye-gesture.' (i.e., he implies that he can, with
authority, command Ibn Sarh be killed without resorting to eye gestures. See al-Qurtubi on Sura
al-An'am 6:109).
Al-Sira by al-'Iraqi:
The scribes of Muhammad were 42 in number. 'Abdallah Ibn Sarh al-'Amiri
was one of them, and he was the first Quraishite among those who wrote in Mecca
before he turned away from Islam. He started saying, "I used to direct
Muhammad wherever I willed. He would dictate to me 'Most High, All-Wise', and I
would write down 'All-Wise' only. Then he would say, 'Yes it is all the same'.
On a certain occasion he said, 'Write such and such', but I wrote 'Write' only,
and he said, 'Write whatever you like.'" So when this scribe exposed
Muhammad, he wrote in the Qur'an, "And who does greater evil than he who
forges against God a lie, or says, 'To me it has been revealed', when naught
has been revealed to him." So on the day Muhammad conquered Mecca, he
commanded his scribe to be killed. But the scribe fled to 'Uthman Ibn `Affan,
because 'Uthman was his foster brother (his mother suckled 'Uthman). 'Uthman,
therefore, kept him away from Muhammad. After the people calmed down, 'Uthman
brought the scribe to Muhammad and sought protection for him. Muhammad kept
silent for a long time, after which he said yes. When 'Uthman had left,
Muhammad said "I only kept silent so that you (the people) should kill
him."('Abdallah 'Abd al-Fadi, Is the Qur'an Infallible?
[Light of Life, P.O. Box 13, A-9503 Villach, Austria], pp.
366-367)
Taken from (http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Naik/quranclaims3.htm)
If this is how Muhammad revealed scripture, how do you respond to this Mr. Khan. What is a Muslim supposed to think in light of this evidence? Obviously you don't want to disagree with all the great Muslim authorities on its authenticity. So how do you cope with this?
6.) Scientific Evidence:
In your emails and in many articles that i've read on the Qur'an, there have been many, many so called scientific evidences that prove that the Qur'an is from Almighty God. If there is one scientific error, then you have admitted that it cannot be from God. Let’s just look at one:
We gave knowledge to David
and Solomon: And they both said: "Praise be to Allah, Who has favored us
above many of His servants who believe!" And Solomon was David's heir. He
said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and we have
been given of every thing: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)" And before Solomon were marshaled his
hosts,- of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.
At length, when they came to a valley of ants, one of the ants said: O ye ants,
get into your habitations, lest Solomon
and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it." So he smiled,
amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! So order me that I may be
grateful for Thy favors, which Thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and
that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: and admit me, by Thy
Grace, to the ranks of Thy Righteous Servants." And he took a muster of
the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among
the absentees? I will certainly punish him with a severe punishment, or execute
him, unless he bring me a clear reason (for absence)."..... Surah 27:15-44
I will not quote this whole passage again, for we have already done that under section 4.) i beleive.
According to Naik, the
statement regarding the ant's speech is in complete agreement with modern
scientific discoveries that show that ants do in fact communicate among
themselves in order to accomplish specific tasks. The problem with Naik's claim
is that it overlooks the fact that this passage has ants, birds, demons and
Solomon all communicating amongst themselves! Therefore, this passage indicates
that Solomon and his animal friends all understood the language of the others!
[Note: See the article
Talking Ants in the Qur'an for a detailed discussion of Surah 27:18-19.]
Interestingly, whereas Naik
sees prescientific information in the preceding fable another Muslim, Muhammad
Asad, actually allegorizes this passage in order to avoid the obvious absurdity
of viewing this historically:
"In this instance, Solomon evidently refers to his own
understanding and admiration of nature (cf. 38:31-33 and the corresponding notes) as well as to his
loving compassion for the humblest of God's creatures, as a great divine
blessing: and this is the Qur'anic moral of the LEGENDARY story of the
ant." (Asad,
p. 578, f. 17)
Taken from (http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Naik/quranclaims2.htm#part5).
7.) Conclusion:
These evidences above show very conclusively that the Qur'an is not perfect, and more importantly that the general Muslim authorities, past and present, Arabic Scholars, most renown Islamic commentators, and the Sahih Hadith like Bukhari and Muslim, all are in baisc unity for the truthfull accounts of the above evidences. I know that you might not have read the above in scrutiny and depth and that it might not have "shaked" or "phased" your faith in the Qur'an. But what do you say to the FACT that the Qur'an is NOT in perfect Arabic, that the Qur'an is NOT perfectly grammatically correct, that the Qur'an
does have the exact same stories of those fairy tales of the Jews and Arabians and Sabeans before Muhammad's time, that the scribes of Muhammad forsook Islam because they were able to change the revelations that Muhammad recieved? How do you still hold that the Qur'an is perfectly from God? Do you just brush aside these FACTS with just "To you your religion, and to me my religion"? And take no further thought of it?
May Almighty God guide you Mr. Khan.
In deepest sincerity and frienship,
Brian Lucero
Subject: RE: how do you...
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:22:14 -0600
From: "m khan"
To: brian@lucerofamily.com
HI BRIAN:
IT SEEMS THAT ALL YOU HAVE
SAID ABOUT MY FAITH AND MY HOLY BOOK
THROUGH THESE LENGTHY EMAILS
IS BAD. YOU HAVE NOT SEEN OR SHOWN ANY
GOOD POINTS AT ALL!!! ONLY
BECAUSE I DO NOT ACCEPT THE CONCEPT OF TRINITY
AND WILL NOT WORSHIP JESUS
CHRIST(P), YOU HAVE SAID ALL KINDS OF NEGATIVE
THINGS ABOUT MY RELIGION AND
MY HOLY BOOK. SINCE THE QURAN IS ALL
WRONG AND A BAD BOOK ( ALL
1200 MILLION MUSLIMS ARE WITH NO BRAINS OR
INTELLECT TO THINK FOR
THEMSELVES, GOD HAS GIVEN ONLY YOU AND A SELECT
FEW THAT ABILITY), THAT BOOK
HAS TAUGHT THEM TO LEAD A BAD LIFE
STYLE. THERE IS HARDLY
ANYTHING GOOD IN THAT BOOK ACCORDING TO YOU.
SO
I WOULD SINCERELY APPRECIATE
IF YOU COULD STOP SENDING ME EMAILS AS I
HAVE NO REASON TO DISCUSS
ANYTHING FURTHER WITH YOU. PLEASE TELL
THE
PEOPLE OF MOSES (P) TO ACCEPT
JESUS CHRIST(P) BECAUSE AS MUSLIMS WE HAVE
ALREADY ACCEPTED HIM. THEY DO
NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST (P) IS THE
MESSIAH.&n bsp; THERE
WERE MANY A GREAT PROPHETS THAT COULD NOT SHOW
THE RIGHT PATH TO THEIR OWN
PEOPLE INCLUDING FAMILY MEMBERS ONLY GOD
ALMIGHTY GUIDES THEM IF HE SO
CHOOSES. SO I CANNOT GUIDE YOU AND YOU
CANNOT GUIDE ME. AGAIN TO YOU YOUR FAITH AND TO ME MINE. JUSTICE AND
TRUTH WILL PREVAIL. AMEN!!!
IN URDU THERE IS A SAYING
WHICH GOES LIKE THIS, THE BEST ANSWER
TO THE
IGNORANT ONES IS TO IGNORE
(BE SILENT, NOT REPLY) THEM. I FEEL YOU
ARE A
VERY OFFENSIVE PERSON TALKING
BAD ABOUT MY BELIEFS AND MY HOLY
BOOK FOR SATAN HAS SURELY
TAKEN OVER YOU AND ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY CAN
SAVE YOU!!!. I DO NOT THINK THAT JESUS CHRIST (P) WOULD
APPROACH PEOPLE
THIS WAY. YOU ASKED ME IF MY BROTHER WAS JUMPING OFF
WHETER I WOULD
TALK TO HIM OR NOT, THERE ARE
CLOSE TO 6 BILLION PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD
TODAY AND IF THEY ALL WANT TO
JUMP AND DIE I CANNOT BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS
HOWEVER IF ANY OF THEM WANT TO COME
WITH AN OPEN MIND AND OPEN
HEART AND ACCEPT ISLAM OR IS GENUINELY
INTERESTED IN GAINING
KNOWLEDGE THEN I CAN HELP BY GIVING THEM THE
ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE
HOLY QURAN AND SHARE WHATEVER LIMITED
KNOWLEDGE I HAVE OF ISLAM.
ONLY LAST FRIDAY I MET DAVID (SAID HE IS A
CATHOLIC) AT THE MOSQUE AS I
WAS COMING OUT OF FRIDAY CONGREGATIONAL
PRAYERS. HE WORKS FOR AMERICAN
EXPRESS IN DOWNTOWN MPLS AND SAID HE IS
SERIOULY STUDYING ISLAM AND
WANTS TO BECOME A MUSLIM SOON, HE SAID
THAT HE READ THE QURAN AND
BELIEVES THAT IT IS A WORD OF GOD ALMIGHTY.
SO YOU SEE THE RELIGION IS
SPREADING INSPITE OF US AND NOT BECAUSE OF
US. IN ISLAM HUMAN BEINGS ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ALL THEIR DEEDS
UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY AND HERE
AGAIN THERE IS NO ARGUMENT I WILL HAVE WITH
YOU. SO I AM SINCERELY REQUESTING THAT YOU LET ME
PRACTICE MY RELIGION
AND YOU PRACTICE YOURS. EVEN
BEFORE PROPHET MOHAMMAD (P) BROUGHT THE
MESSAGE OF THE HOLY QURAN,
THE WORD ALLAH EXISTED IN THE ARABIC
LANGUAGE, IT HAS ALWAYS (IN
ARABIC) BEEN IMPLIED TO THE SUPREME
BEING,
THE SUPREME CREATOR OF THE
UNIVERSE, IT DOES NOT HAVE A GENDER OR
PLURAL LIKE WE HAVE IN THE
ENGLISH LANGUAGE, GODDESS AND GODS. IF
YOU
DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THAT
ALLAH (SWT) IS T HE ARABIC WORD FOR GOD
ALMIGHTY
I AM NOT HOLDING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD TO ACCEPT IT. FOR IN ONE
PART OF THE HOLY QURAN IT
SAYS THAT THE MOST BEAUTIFUL NAMES BELONG TO
ALLAH (SWT).
REGARDS
M. KHAN
P.S SUBHANA WA T'ALA (SWT) MEANS THAT I GLORIFY GOD ALMIGHTY.
