Jack Downing Part 4
[This appeared in the newsletter of the Smoking Gun Research Agency of September 16, 1998.]
A Talk With Jack Downing
Recently online we met up with contact and friend Jack Downing and had the chance to chat for a bit. To give you a brief backgroud Major Jack Downing is retired N.S.A, and esteemed ghost hunter and paranormal researcher. He has helped us out here that the SGRA by providing us with many leads, and a lot of help. We are ever greatful for his help. And now for the interesting chat (as always) with Major Jack Downing. We (Jon Nowinski, and the SGRA) were chatting with Major J.D. over the strange occurances of bursts of movies on asteroids, and movies that seem to come out when the things are happining. Here's what he had to say... "When you see footage on a TV show about UFOs, consider this: I have acquaintances who produce these documentaries, and often they "rig up" and "fabricate" scenes and footage, in order to spice up the show....so I ask you to "Trust NO One", not in the media....anything you see on TV, read in books or magazines, or read on the internet should be viewed skeptically...When they say "The truth is out there" they literally mean that it is completely outside of the bounds of media....MKULTRA was a gov't "black" operation which focussed on the means, technologically or chemically, by which the human mind could be completely controlled. In essence, how to create "Manchurian Candidates" (have you seen that movie?) A few mega-corporations, all of which have gov't contracts, own most of the media, including the internet, and they DO have control over what is permissible.....what "reality" we may be permitted to see...."
We asked JD why he chose the SGRA to get in contact with and he responded, " I approve of your goals, I think that today's young paranormal researchers are tomorrows truth-exposers, and I've got lots of experience, lots of time, and enjoy giving advice. I've been locked out of my line of work by the gov't, but they never said I couldn't "consult and advise" others. Having spent my life as a cover-up specialist, I've had a change of heart as a result of what I feel is a betrayal by my former employers. Now I seek to expose their methods."
A Chat with Jack Downing By John Nowinsky (AgentJN1@aol.com) From the SGRA newsletter July 9, 1998
As many of you know from previous newsletters, Jack Downing is a well-known paranormal researcher, who has contributed to the growth of the SGRA in many ways. He is a swell fellow, and has helped us by providing many useful leads. I had the opportunity to chat with him again on Wednesday, and here's what he had to say . . .
Jack Downing: Cover-up research is about more than just finding out who manufactures what plane or weapon, and where they test it. What you really need to find out is who is manufacturing our consent. . .Until you can expose the unpleasant means by which the populace has been kept complacent and indifferent to the way their government is manipulating them, they will continue to not care about some of the technological nightmares which are looming on the horizon. . . . . .So at the root of all the cover-up issues is how people are kept in the dark about things. . .better you should look into how the military/industrial complex controls the networks and Hollywood, and uses them to control public opinion. . . . . .you should wonder why TV commercials and video games are so . . . stroboscopic. . . .& you should wonder why we are being bombarded by so many "Real Cop" and "Paranormal" television shows . . . shows which distort reality while asking us to believe that we are looking at, or for, the "truth" . . . . . . When you see footage on a TV show about UFOs, consider this: I have acquaintances who produce these documentaries, and often they "rig up" and "fabricate" scenes and footage, in order to spice up the show. . .this happens all the time, even for news programs. . .so I ask you to "TRUST NO ONE", not in the media. . .anything you see on TV, read in books or magazines, or read on the 'net should be viewed skeptically. . . . . .Only a few mega-corporations, all of whom have gov't contracts, own most of the media, including the internet, and they DO have a lot of control over what info is permissible. . .what "reality" we may be permitted to see. . . . . .when you are told "The truth is out there," you should understand this phrase to mean that the truth is completely outside of the bounds of print or broadcast media. . .and further, most people will say anything at all, and with a straight face, just to get a little attention, so don't even give complete credence to people you talk to, face to face. . .where do you think daytime talk shows get their guests? . . .our beliefs are force-fed to us. . .it happens in subtle ways, that sometimes we don't know how we came to think a certain way. We laugh when we are shown documentaries about Nazi or Communist propaganda, and we think that we are immune to such obvious stuff. . .but modern media is much more sophisticated than it once was. Propaganda has become a powerful art & science, especially in the wake of MKULTRA and related projects. Those in power can now very subtly bombard us with resonant icons, and we will take the bait, because there is a Pavlovian stimulus-and-reward feedback relation between us and the media. . .when you are dependent on something for all of your news and entertainment, you are vulnerable to it. . .more easily disinformed. Remember that in ancient Rome, the rulers recognized that the populace could be lulled with "bread and circuses". . .and today, every welfare household has a TV, which is just as important as food stamps in alleviating discontent.
[a continuation of the above SGRA interview from 1998]
Q: What is MKULTRA?
J.D.: ...MKULTRA was a gov't "black" operation which focused on the means, technologically or chemically, by which the human mind could be completely controlled. In essence, how to create a "Manchurian Candidate" (have you seen that movie?) ...I'd like to clear up some confusion about the nature of projects or operations (or agencies) called "black"...most people think black simply means "ultra top secret," which is actually untrue...for example, there has never been anything black about Nevada test Site/Nellis Bombing range (which includes "area51") ...secret, yes...very secret. But there is no deception. It is federal land, and it's on the map. People are wasting too many brain cells caring about that place. ...a black operation is one that pretends to be something else. . .deception is a key factor. For example, the CIA recruiting people, while deceiving them into thinking that they are working for a corporation or activist group...they never know where their paychecks are coming from. Black is. . .your own government bombing a federal building and then blaming it on extremists or communists. . .you can see that something is going on, but the causality is completely displaced. . .another example is of course the building up of a UFO mythology in order to keep us from thinking about experimental warfighting technologies, or covert domestic operations. . . . . .as investigators of UFOs and paranormal phenomena, you should always ask yourself, when following clues or interviewing people, whether the lead you are following may have conveniently been set for you, by some individual or agency who has a stake in your deception. Most investigations of this sort amount to little more than a merry goose chase. Someone is laughing, at your expense. Remember what I have said in the past about the "hall of mirrors". . .
Q: Refresh our memories.
J.D.: The "hall of mirrors" is the modus operandi and sole function of at least a few "black" agencies within the U.S. and other governments. By means of spinning out distractions and alternate realities, public opinion is shaped, and people are kept from finding out what's really going on. This evolved after WWI [in the U.S.], when the U.S. and British gov't began to hire top advertising people to work in their propaganda departments. It became clear that wars could be won by the control of information alone. Many wars have happened in the 20th century with nary a shot fired, and the civilian population oblivious, until the forces of economic imperialism start setting up shop in their countries. The U.S. is now in a state of constant war with the world, and the stake is economic. The "hall of mirrors" functions to tell the world that the U.S. is the "good guy" and that "everything is okay, just you stay tuned to your TV sets"...
A transcription of a conversation between Raheem and Downing, which took place in 1997
Raheem's preface-- I caught up with Downing after a public event in Manhattan, and we sequestered ourselves in a quiet bar to talk about his experiences. He was at first reticent, but a couple of martinis loosened his tongue. Use your own judgement about the factuality of his statements.
RAHEEM: It has been said in some internet forums that you are an active part of the cover-up, having been in PSYOPS and worked with the CIA and NSA.
DOWNING: I wish somebody would pose similar questions to goddamn Ed Dames and Strieber whatsisface...
RAHEEM: Well...?
DOWNING: Let history be the judge. I stand behind my words. I'm sick of being jerked around by the government, my former employer, by the VA hospitals [Downing had cancer in '97 -ed.], and... yet I'm still technically sworn to hold secrecy about some things till the day I die.
RAHEEM: Can you comment on the whole Roswell craze?
DOWNING: Yeah. It is a damn media circus, nothing more. Nothing extraordinary happened ... an experimental stealth plane went down. The farmer was debriefed, the media got hold of it, and we had to contrive a story to keep details of the crash from the Russians ... it was (at) the start of the Cold War, if you'll recall.
RAHEEM: Were you there?
DOWNING: Nah! I was still a kid back then. How old do I look fer Chrissakes?! I had a briefing on that, got the whole story, saw the wreckage, and so forth...no aliens...saw some really neat Air Force documents too. A really cool book of photos of aircraft from various angles. It was very interesting, because some of them looked like classic flying saucers. Air Force and commercial pilots were shown this book to reassure them that no alien craft were seen.
RAHEEM: You never saw a flying saucer?
DOWNING: Never saw an "alien" flying saucer. Our government experimented with some oddball propulsion systems, saucer shapes, some Tesla stuff, but not a helluva lot came from that but a ton of wasted taxpayer dollars.
RAHEEM: So, what was going on...why all the covering up and confusion?
DOWNING: Politics. Ours is a government at war with itself. Special interests and distrust swirl together into this fractal mess, made worse by the media's involvement. There is a hall-of-mirrors effect which results...and it becomes impossible to see any verity amidst all the noise. Lots of secret clubs in our government. The goddamn COMM-12, AQUARIUS, the Black Ops Brethren...all at war with each other and with the people.
RAHEEM: The Black Ops Brethren...you have on past occasions also referred to them as the Men in Black. Is there any truth to the claim that you were once involved with them?
DOWNING: MIB SCHMIB! (laughs) They are...not what they used to be. Ah, in the early 80s they redefined themselves...women were admitted. The old boy thing came to an end. It became less social, less...amusing...more ruthless. I screwed up with them...out on my ear. The NSA didn't want me. My records were "wiped" and I was threatened with grave...unspecified consequences. Where they really screwed me is...my hospital benefits. I don't have access to the VA, even though I was in Viet Nam...a Dinky Dow GI [dien cai dao (sp?)=crazy -ed.] ...I went into Laos and Cambodia. Ran a radio show in Phnom Penh [w/the CIA -ed.] to undermine, uh, Sihanouk.
RAHEEM: I recall in an article you once wrote about the "Men in Black," you stated that they have a strong historical consciousness...
DOWNING: Well, some of those guys were the best. Elite. Ivy league. Top military honors. Distinguished service in clandestine services...etcetera. They were the top PSYOP and counterintell people. They saw that all of history had precedents (for them)...the Black Hand...Chicago gangland...Haitian secret societies...the TonTon Macoute...Swaarte Pieter...the Bon-Po the Tongs...
RAHEEM: All this-
DOWNING: All of it was employed, dragged into the grand psychological operation. Even science fiction stereotypes...silly hi-tech gadgets, the whole nine yards. It was incredible to see them in action. They had...ah...Ericksonian and NLP tricks [presumably an 80s development -ed.] ...martial arts...James Bond sh*t! The old days of sodium pentothal and Korean War era brainwashing stuff was left in the dust. One could now brainwash people without their knowledge...
RAHEEM: What about the implants? Mindcontrolled assassins with implanted...memories...electronic implants with strange alloys and microwave transmitters, etcetera?
DOWNING: Hee hee! The fun stuff! I was aware in the early 70s of experiments upon dependednts of military and civilian employees of the government. It was called "intelligence testing," as in "we're going to take your kid in to the nearby military hospital for intelligence testing." I suspect the government had recruited some old nazi doctors to tinker with the brain functions of these kids. I've seen scars on some of the kids...always on the right side of the head. God only knows what was going on, but it was all over the place back (then) in the 70s. I reckon it's still going on, some places. Parents are either in the dark about it or are complicit...but sworn to secrecy.
RAHEEM: Holy mackerel! You sound like you ought to be on Art Bell or something!
DOWNING: (grins) Don't get me started about that kook! ...heh heh... HE is part of the cover-up if there ever was one. Why on earth would he be so smitten about that pseudonymous Ed Dames...
RAHEEM: ...and about Bob Lazar?
DOWNING: THAT is not even the bastard's real name...speaking of pseudonyms. He is another one of those PSYOPS puppies. Where they found him I'll never know. At least Strieber makes a bit of sense, being a sci-fi writer. When I told this chick I was dating that he wrote "The Hunger" she just about fainted away (laughs)...those damn goths... crack me up.
RAHEEM: Um, Alex Constantine has written much about Dr. Louis Jolyon West. Have you heard of him?
DOWNING: Oh yeah. That creepy shrink. Never met him, oddly enough. His name's all over the goddamn place. All the US-funded nazi-type stuff has his fingerprints all over it. He's a player in the RV [remote viewing -ed.] stuff too, but like I said, I never met him.
RAHEEM: And Constantine?
DOWNING: ...the uh, mind control guy...
RAHEEM: Yeah. Any comment on him?
DOWNING: He writes in that mindcontrol newsgroup...probably right half of the time...I haven't read everything.
Part 5
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