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Talking Back: The Hydroplate Model
This is a response to Talk
Origin's response to Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Model for the
catastrophic events of the Noahic Flood of antiquity. You can read the
original at CH420:
Hydroplate Theory on their website.
The thing that struck me the greatest when I reviewed their claims, was
that either the author of the page didn't even bother to read Brown's
book or they purposefully ignored most of it. I say this because even a
cursory reading of Brown's book reveals that these "problems" have been
answered in detail. Either
way, it does not bespeak much of TO's neutrality or even superfacial
objectivity.
TO's statements are in bold and italics, and my comments are in regular
text.
"The rock
which makes up the earth's crust doesn't float. The water would have
been forced to the surface long before Noah's time, or before Adam's
time for that matter."
They are correct in stating that rock does not float, but the
completely unsubstanciated claim that it could have been forced to the
surface long before Adam's time is a prime example of the pure
"just-so" stories evolutionists often come up with to respond to
creationists.
Secondly, the issue has already been
addressed in Brown's book. This means:
a) They didn't actually read the book
b) They decided to ignore his response to such nonsense in order to
confuse the hapless reader.
I see no other explantions for what is going on here.
The solution to the puzzle is very, very simple. Rock "flows" at high
pressures. This means that the rock would literally "flow" down to form
supporting pillars meaning that the rock would not be floating, but
supported by these "pillars."
Brown states:"If the rock layer were
perfectly uniform in thickness and density, everything would be in
balance. Equilibrium would exist.
"No doubt variations existed in
the rock’s thickness and density. The heavier parts would sag (bend)
downward, like an overloaded floor, causing additional water on top to
flow into each depression. That added weight would increase each sag.
More surface water would flow into the growing depressions, driving
each sag even deeper."
It is likely that the scoffer would say, "but that's impossible! It
would crack!" Not really. Brown took that into consideration as well.
He states: "The rock layer would
have had some stiffness, because it was almost 10-miles thick. However,
the plate’s large area (basically the surface of the earth) would have
given it an area-to-thickness ratio of about 20 million to one! This
would be similar to a paper-thin sheet of tin, steel, or rock, 25 feet
on each side. Consider its flexibility and how quickly it would sag
downward just one-tenth of its thickness.
"The effects of the rock
sagging downward through water at one location on earth would spread
laterally, but only at the speed of sound. Outside that expanding “ring
of influence,” other sags could occur simultaneously."
Brown continues: "Some of the
sagging rock would also be squeezed downward through the subterranean
water, forming protrusions—or “pillars”—pressed against the chamber
floor. Here’s why. The rock’s pressure at the bottom of the rock
layer’s thicker, denser portions would exceed the subterranean water’s
pressure pushing upward. If that pressure difference exceeded the
rock’s shear strength at any point, rock would “flow” downward,
deforming like putty. High confining pressures would not allow cracks
to open up or rocks to break, as occurs with brittle material at the
earth’s surface. Compression tests on cylinders of rock subjected to
high confining pressures, but larger axial loads, show that the rock
cylinders deform like putty.
"Downward protrusions (pillars)
would grow like the downward flow in a lava lamp, except the rock,
being a solid instead of a liquid, had internal strength due to atomic
bonding. The deeper the pillars went, the greater this pressure
difference would become, so rock would “flow” even deeper until all
pillars pressed against the chamber floor. Pillars carrying an
excessive load would thicken and penetrate slightly into the chamber
floor.
"The same effects, but in the
opposite direction, would have lifted thinner, less-dense portions of
the rock layer up out of the water, forming continents. Keep in mind
that the confined subterranean water had essentially a fixed volume.
Therefore, as rock sagged downward and as pillars were squeezed
downward, this fixed volume of subterranean water had to displace
thinner parts of the rock layer, forcing them upward."
"Even a mile deep, the
earth is boiling hot, and thus the reservoir of water would be
superheated. Further heat would be added by the energy of the water
falling from above the atmosphere. As with the vapor canopy model, Noah
would have been poached."
I will deal with
the canopy theory attack first. While
I am not like some creationists in a dogmatic assertion of a canopy
theory, the Bible does seem to be clear that there was some kind of
canopy, though of what size, thickness, etc is irrelevent to the
current dicussion. Suffice it to say that while Answers in Genesis no
longer teaches the canopy theory due to their inability to work out a
computer model for it that didn't poach the earth, there are other,
better indicators that there could have been a survivable canopy of
vapor. Vardiman
has done some research to contribute to this.
The solution to the heat problem is similarly simple and similarly addressed by Brown in his book,
which similarly reinforces the inference that TO didn't even bother to
give his work anything more than a skim if they read it at all.
Brown's theory states that originally the earth was not molten as it is
today, but solid. As the Mid-Oceanic Ridge bulged upward, it was pulled
from other areas, causing the materials all through the earth to
drastically shift and the friction of the shift caused it to heat up
and the inner earth to melt and the inner, outer and mantle divisions
to form.
He states:
"Toward the end of
the flood phase, erosion from escaping high-velocity water had widened
the globe-encircling rupture about 800 miles. Exposed at the bottom of
this wide, water-filled gap was the subterranean chamber floor, 10
miles below the earth’s surface. Before the
rupture, the gigantic pressure immediately under the floor corresponded
to the weight of almost 10 miles of rock and 3/4 mile of water that pressed down on the
floor. Afterward, with 10 miles of rock suddenly gone, only the
strength of the chamber floor and 10 miles of water on top of it
resisted this upward pressure. Consequently, as the rupture widened,
the Mid-Oceanic Ridge suddenly buckled up, as described on pages 107–110.
"The
continental-drift phase began with hydroplates sliding “downhill” on a
layer of water, away from the rising Mid-Atlantic Ridge. This removed
more weight from the rising portion of the subterranean chamber floor,
causing it to rise even faster and accelerate the hydroplates even
more. (If your are wondering how the hydroplates could slide away from
the Mid-Atlantic Ridge without encountering resistances on the opposite
side of the earth, see the paragraph “Continental plates ...” on page 108.)
"As that part of the
chamber floor rose to become the Atlantic floor, it stretched
horizontally in all directions, just as a balloon stretches when its
radius increases. This stretching produced cracks parallel and
perpendicular to the Mid-Oceanic Ridge. Because this began in what is
now the Atlantic, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and its cracks are the most
prominent of the oceanic ridge system.
"Obviously, the
great confining pressure in the mantle and core did not allow deep
voids to open up under the rising Atlantic floor. So even deeper
material was “sucked” upward. Throughout the
inner earth, material shifted toward the rising Atlantic floor,
forming a broader, but shallower, depression on the opposite side of
the earth—what is now the Pacific and Indian Oceans. Just as the
Atlantic floor stretched horizontally as it rose, the western Pacific
floor compressed horizontally as it subsided. Subsidence in the Pacific
and Indian Oceans began a startling 20 – 25 minutes after the
Atlantic floor began its rise, the time it takes a seismic wave to pass
through the earth. Both movements contributed to the “downhill” slide
of hydroplates.
"Centered on the
Pacific and Indian Oceans is the trench region of the western Pacific.
As material beneath the western Pacific was “sucked” down, it buckled
downward in places forming trenches. The Atlantic Ocean (centered at
21.5°W longitude and 10°S latitude) is almost exactly opposite
this trench region (centered at 159°E longitude and 10°N
latitude). [See Figure 80
on page 129.]
"A simple, classic
experiment illustrates some aspects of this event.
"A cup of water is poured into an empty 1-gallon (5
liter) can. The can is heated from below until steam flows out the
opening in the top. The heat is turned off, and the cap is quickly
screwed on the top of the can, trapping hot steam in the metal can. As
the steam cools, a partial vacuum forms inside the can. The can’s walls
buckle in, forming wrinkles in the metal—“miniature trenches.”
"The upper 5 miles
of the earth’s crust is hard and brittle. Below the top 5 miles, the
large confining pressure will deform rock if pressure differences are
great enough. Consequently, as the western Pacific floor subsided
(sank), it buckled into “downward creases,” forming trenches. The hard
crust and deformable mantle frequently produced deformations with an
“arc and cusp” shape. The brittle crust cracked and slid in many
places, especially along paths called Benioff
zones.9
"Deformations
throughout the earth slid countless pieces of highly compressed rock
over, along, and through each other, generating extreme friction—and,
therefore, heat.
"To appreciate the heat generated, slide a brick one
foot along a sidewalk. Both the brick and sidewalk will warm slightly.
Sliding a brick an inch but with a mile of rock squarely on top would
melt part of the brick and sidewalk. Earth’s radius is almost 4,000
miles. Place a few thousand of those miles of rock on top of the brick
and slide it only one thousandth of an
inch. The heat generated would melt the
entire brick and much of the sidewalk below.
"Small movements
deep inside the solid earth would melt huge volumes of minerals,
especially those with lower melting temperatures.
"Much of this magma
squirted up through cracks and flowed on top of the depressed granite
hydroplate that formed the western Pacific floor. Researchers have
begun to detect this granite under the floors of the Pacific and Indian
Oceans.10
Other magma gushed out on the continents as flood basalts. Some magma,
unable to escape fast enough, is trapped in pockets called magma
chambers.
"Let’s suppose the
inner earth initially had a more uniform mixture of minerals
throughout. Melting, as described above, would cause denser minerals to
settle and lighter minerals to rise. This partial settling would
generate even more heat and produce more melting and gravitational
settling—followed by more heating, melting, and settling. After many
such cycles, the earth’s core would quickly form with the densest
minerals settling to form the solid inner core and the melt rising to
form the liquid outer core. (For details and calculations, see
pages 346–348.)
"This frictional
heating, internal melting, and gravitational settling of the denser
components would have increased earth’s rotational speed. Today, the
earth spins 365.24 times each year, but there are historical reasons
for believing a year once had 360 days.11
"We saw in Figure 81
that skaters spin
faster as they become more compact. Likewise, as denser minerals
settled through the magma toward the center of the earth, the inner
core spun faster than the outer earth and the melt moved upward. The
inner core is still spinning faster (1.1° per year),12
because the liquid outer core allows slippage between the faster inner
core and the slower outer earth. Other evidence supports these
dramatic events.13"
TO concludes their "response" with:
"The escaping waters would have eroded the
sides of the fissures, producing poorly sorted basaltic erosional
deposits. These would be concentrated mainly near the fissures, but
some would be shot thousands of miles along with the water. Such
deposits would be quite noticeable but have never been seen."
First of all, the sides of the fissures
were granite, which is the third indicator that TO didn't even bother
to read Brown's work.
Secondly, this incredible statement
reveals a lack of geologic knowledge. Sediments like sand and clay are
produced by eroding crystalline rock, such as granite and basalt, meaning that the deposits
that TO claims have "never been seen" are in fact everywhere and they
are "quite noticeable." They are sedimentary rocks.
TO then claims that the eroded basaltic
and granite rocks would produce "poorly sorted basaltic erosional
deposits." What basis is there for this completely unsubstanciated
claim? Are the writers at TO completely unaware of the process known as
liquifaction?
Liquifaction is what causes quicksand, and can explain cross-bedded
sandstone, mounds, and plumes, etc. It can account for the arrangement
of sedimentary layers and the arrangement of fossils, as well as
perfectly explaining how fossil footprints, raindrops, were preserved.
Clearly we can see that TO's response to
Walt Brown's book are total nonsense and falsified by operational
science. It is clear that they were blinded by their humanistic,
evolutionary philosophy and were relying on the reader to be uninformed
on these issues.
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