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"We lobby freedom of speech and freedom of mass media"

Interview with Chris Schuepp, director of “Internews” in Kyrgyzstan.

Corr: what are the goals of the international non-commercial organization “Internews” in the Kyrgyz Republic?

Chris: The goal of our organization is the advance of independence mass media in Kyrgyzstan. mainly, we focus our attention on development of electronic mass media, namely TV and Radio. Also, we conduct a lot of work on legislative support to the journalists and organize seminars for them, give them equipment, in other words we do everything in our power to support professionalism of the journalists. Of course, we lobby freedom of speech and freedom of mass media. If you want to know the results, you just need to watch TV programs of those TV stations that we have. At the same time one cannot say however that all the TV stations are established by ‘Internews”, but they are actively supported by us. We are the only organization that focuses its attention only on development of mass media. Many donor organizations have separate projects with mass media, but we work only with mass media. We hope that this spring or summer we will conduct a successful lobbying in the Parliament and try to eliminate the libel article from the criminal code. You’ve probably heard that one journalist was sentenced couple of years ago in Jalal-Abad. Internews hired a lawyer who traveled there and submitted appeal.

We are trying to help journalists, and to make sure that the freedom of speech exists. When I first arrived here, we had only one lawyer, now there are three of them. It seems to me that it is very important for the journalists to know their rights: what they can do and what they cannot do. we do everything in our power to advance the issues related to legislation: one of our lawyers was dealing with Internet, another with the civil code, and the third with the criminal code. We try to cover not only Bishkek, but also regions of the country. Of course, politics is made in Bishkek, but overwhelming majority of the kyrgyz population lives in the regions. Legislative issues are also very important: previously, the government could squash independent mass media, if, let’s say, their documents or registration was not correct. We want to everything in the way that the mass media obeys the law. And then there will be no friction with the authorities. For instance, during the election many said that opposition needed support. However, that is not the goal of our organization here. Our goal is that journalists make objective and true shows. We did not ask anyone write bad articles about the president, neither did we ask to write something good about him. We simply wanted to provide people with the true picture and objective news. And even if its good or bad news for someone, for someone they are based on facts. There are some papers that always write only bad about the government. Our goal is to make sure that articles are written in an objective and true way

Corr: how long has the Internews been here?

Chris: We started our work here in 1995, at the time there was two people in the office and now we have 17 people working for us. Besides, we are planning to open a small office in Osh City. We are an American organization, but this does not mean that we are financed only by them. We are being funded not only by USAID, but also by the European Union, Swiss Coordination Office and Eurasia Foundation. We take money from everyone who wants to support development of free and independent mass media in Kyrgyzstan. since we are a non-commercial organization, we take the money and give it to the development of professional journalism. Now one of the grants received from the EU will help us open a branch office in Osh. Now we will have two offices that will be equipped with the two sets of professional montage digital equipment, that is one here and another in Osh.

Corr: how long have you been here:

Chris: Almost a year.

Corr: freedom of press means freedom of the people.. in your view, what principles from the Charter of press liberty are not observed in the Kyrgyz Republic?

Chris: I can say that in principle that law is good, but it is not always observed. It is hard to talk about this because people in the former Soviet Union did not always have the opportunity to express freely their thoughts. And we cannot expect that 10 years after collapse of the Soviet Empire there will be freedom of mass media and freedom of speech like in the US or in Germany. And if 10 years ago there were no good media associations, good laws about mass media and independent professional journalists, then how they come appear right now? I think your journalists do a good job, especially it concerns young journalists, for instance such TV stations as “Tatina” in Kara-Balta and “MTV” in Karakol. And although they do not have a special journalistic education, one can say that have a freedom of speech and can say that they have on their minds. And they do not earn much money in the process. The freedom of speech is a process, and it does not come in one day. Even in the countries of the Western Europe and USA this process is not yet completed and it is still going on. This is something that cannot be achieved instantly, but Confucius said: “the way is the goal”. I think it is very good when journalists of the TV station or your newspaper publish what could be prohibited here to publish, but nevertheless, they desire it and publish that they want.

I think the biggest problem for the mass media of Kyrgyzstan is not the legislation and not the principles that one should follow. The biggest problem for the journalists is not even a census of the government but rather self-censorship. There are things that are not discussed at all. For if there is a self-censorship, then there is no need for a census at all, the government can say with pure conscience that there is no census in the country at all. Indeed, one can say that there is no census in Kyrgyzstan but there is self-censorship. The journalists are afraid to publish because they can get punished for that. I know many cases when the TV stations or newspapers received orders or phone calls to publish or not to publish certain materials. One can argue here whether this is a census or not. The government will tell that this is not census: we do not rule and do not send it for print. Well, it is good for the government, but it does not change the situation for the journalists. For instance, currently we are working to eliminate the article about libel in the criminal code. This is one of the steps to prevent self-censorship: if the journalist is sure that he will not be put in jail for his publication then it will give him internal freedom to talk about the things that has not spoke of before

Corr: the role of mass media in building of the civil society is well known. But we cannot diminish that positive role that Internet plays in today in the sense of free access to information. However, do not you think that the access to Internet in the regions is very poor?

Chris: Regarding first part of the question, I would like to refer to the words of Mr. S. Kopeikin who made a speech at our joint press conference last week. He said that the mass media is a bridge between the people and the government. I think we should add here that this bridge is crossed from the both sides. The role of mass media in the civil society can be expressed in the way that it is an instrument that can be used to ask government the questions and at the same time get the answers from it. “Media” means to transfer something. Here, media, like in other countries, must transfer something to the government and back to the people. The role of mass media and journalists is concentrated in its ability to reveal difficulties, go to the authorized people and deliver message of the people to them. We cannot expect that the president will open his doors for all the 3,5 million kyrgyz people. But if the journalist collects information and on behalf of the people sends it to the president, then the president will be to reply through the journalist to the people. And of there is no such a bridge, then there will be no communication between the government and the people. People will not know what is going on in the government and the government will have no clue what is happening with the people. Every president gives an oath that he will serve his people, and the role of mass media is to check it. They must know what people think and the government does because they serve the people, and not the president. The bridge is crossed from the both sides and the journalist must be located not on the one side but in the middle.

The same can be said about the Internet, because it is a mean of information delivery. It can serve as a virtual journalist if used rightly. It can be considered as a place where you can send information, questions and get answers. Internet can serve as a newspaper, because it has many virtual newspapers.

Internet-is when everyone who has an access to Internet can become a journalist and you do not need money for that. All you need is a computer, modem, internet-provider-and you can publish anything that you want. You do not need to write to the editor and worry whether it will be published or not. But as the same time such an opportunity makes Internet dangerous for the state because it does not want that a certain information be published. It will be very hard for the government to close down the web-sites that they do not like. With Kyrgyzstan’s population of 4,5 million people, there is a potential to have the same number of Internet users. How many people can today publish their own newspaper? 100-200 people, probably. It is a lot easier to control those 100 or 200 people that publish their own newspapers than it is to control millions of Internet users. I think personally that Internet is a very good instrument to broaden democracy and the freedom of speech. For this you only need a computer, money for communication and a good phone line. I cannot imagine what would happen if everyone had a computer. Life would be quite different then, probably.

It seems to me that even in Bishkek access to Internet is not good, because sometimes connection is very slow. I was in Almaty a month ago, and I was able to download the song that I like within seconds. However, in Bishkek it takes about 2 hours to do this, and there is a risk that having downloaded 97% of information you will not be able to receive it for use. In the regions the situation is far more complicated because you need to work on creation of the infrastructure, and you need a lot of money to make sure that Internet in the country is good. Last week UNDP project and Internews conducted a seminar on the network of information and communication technologies, and some good ideas and recommendations were expressed there. It they are introduced, then the Internet will have a good future in this country.

Corr: the foundation of credits considered the issue of creation of independent printing house in Kyrgyzstan, and the possibility to give out credits was discussed. Considering that we do not have experience in that, would it be better to establish some sort of a joint enterprise or look for different alternatives? And taking in mind that peoples’ purchasing ability is very low, don’t you think that the cost of printing services will become a burden for consumers?

Chris: The issue about printing house is a very complicated one. Undoubtedly, independent printing house would help mass media in Kyrgyzstan. but the problem is who will pay for it and who will be responsible for it. You’ve probably heard about the attempts to establish independent printing house in Kazakhstan: American organizations allocated about 1,5 mullion US dollars for creation of a printing house. The pressure from the government followed, and in the end, one year later, the man responsible for the printing house had to sell the “Habara” printing house. So as you see, the US government allocated 1,5 million dollars to build a printing house that later became pro-governmental. The “Washington Post newspaper” published an article about this issue that is full of criticism. And therefore today the grant-makers are very careful when it comes to establishing a printing house. They do not want to repeat the mistakes. Of course, they want to support independent mass media, as well as business or NGO’s which could develop and earn money.

I do not think that if the printing house is established and it is financed by US or Europe and then it cannot function due to some reasons it will be of help to the kyrgyz people. Currently assessment work is under way on how to create a printing house with the efforts of local organizations. How it will be supported? We also were a part of the assessment group and discussed this matter. I was asked the question related to credits. Considering the economic situation in the country, everyone understands that it will be hard to return the credit, and therefore there is no need to invest a lot of money and bring special equipment from Germany or America. It is a lot easier and cheaper to bring it from India, the total amount of costs would amount to 300 US dollars.

Credit-is not a best solution. Here we have a lot of professionals that can make a realistic budget and in one year or two you will have a profit.

Corr: Complex situation in Batken and other hot spots serves as a justification for regulation of the level of access to information. Is this possible in the US? In what cases limitations of the freedom of speech are justified?

Chris: Remember the Gulf War? Perhaps, this was the first war that was on the TV. Journalists and operators stood on the ocean side and taped American attacks. I personally think that the whole truth about the Gulf War was opened, just like we did not hear the truth about the war in Vietnam that took place several decades ago. We also did not hear the truth about Kosovo and Serbia, and as you see, this is also possible in the US.

If the events in Batken will happen again and journalists are again not allowed to cover it, then no one will know about it. If the government allows the journalists travel there before the war starts, then it would be incorrect either. Sometimes wars are used as a propaganda, and this is possible in America too. If there is no information, you will not know the truth, if the government gives out incorrect information, then you are deprived of truth. This is my personal opinion.

Batken-is a very delicate issue: this is not just a war, and it concerns not just one country. Military actions take place every year (1999, 2000, 2001) between the three countries. And today when Kazakhstan agreed to help, we are actually involving another country into the conflict. Spread of danger throughout the region can be the consequence. And if this happens, then the governments of all the countries must be open. In 1999, when the first war happened, I was in Uzbekistan, and you know that the situation there is worse than in Kyrgyzstan. the Uzbek military and air forces were involved into the war not on their territory but in the third country. People in Tashkent then did not anything about it but Batken hosted press conferences. And last year also there were problems with information. Last year we received comprehensive information about the war from several NGO’s which told us what happened indeed there. And speaking frankly, no government in the whole world will ever tell the entire information about the war.

Corr: what legislative acts are necessary for Kyrgyzstan to achieve the real freedom of speech and freedom of press?

Chris: There are several articles in the Election Code that restrict the freedom of journalists. But these problems will come up again in 2005 during the next elections. We do not simply need change of a legislation, we need to introduce it and make sure it works properly. When we worked with the CEC, Mr. Imanbaev always had the election code on his table to which he referred. And when there were questions from NGO’s, he used to tell that this was stipulated by the Election Code and he works strictly according to the law. And I would like to see every journalist work the same way. And when someone from the government tries to hinder work of a journalist, then he can get the law “on mass media” and say: “here is the law and I work according to it”. The journalists today can do that, but the problem is that no one will listen to them. We do everything to make sure that the journalists’ rights are perceived seriously and that the law “on mass media” finally, begins to work properly.