Washington’s The Makers are one of the most innovative and recognized bands in today’s thriving garage rock scene. We were able to grab a hold of singer Michael Maker before they played in Denver this past summer. As we stood down an alleyway just off the busy main street and began to chat Michael turned out to be an amazingly nice and sincere person. Him staying with me and arguing with the manager until they let me into the club is one of the moments that has single handedly proven to me that there is still good reason for me to have faith in this music. Interview by Andrew Bottomley with a good bit of help from Bob Goldie. Photographs by Christine Holmquist.
How’s your tour going so far?
It’s been all right, we’ve been doing some long ass drives, though. Everything is too fucking far away, by the time we get to the show we have to kind of re-energize. But it’s cool.
Where do you have your biggest fan base? Where are some of the craziest places for you guys to play?
Probably San Francisco but everywhere we go, even if it’s not the same amount of people, it’s still the same kind of people, they’re still pretty energetic. It’s pretty wild everywhere we go. There’s some places that it is more subdued they’re still singing along, being cool.
How does it work playing both bars and all-ages, do you notice much of a difference?
It wears away at you dealing with bars, the kind of people that work at taverns, because I never hang out at taverns and then we go on the road and that’s all we have to do every night is deal with people that work at taverns and bars for a living. And sometimes it really wears away at you. I would like to do more all ages shows but it’s just hard. It’s hard to find places that do all ages shows and then find it when they can do them because they are all really fickle. So it’s pretty tough. Nowadays it seems like we can never get an all ages show, we just don’t know how to work it I guess.
How would you say your live act compares to recordings?
I was just talking about that with my friend, Tim Kerr. When we started out it seemed like our live shows were what defined the group but now I find myself just wanting to go into the studio more and hang out in our practice space and work on songs. Right now, at this moment, that seems more important. Except you can’t beat just getting on stage and freaking out, that’s just fun. But as far as how I’m feeling right now, creating songs is way more interesting. The shows, like I said, it’s not like we get to pull into town and talk to our friends and get on stage and do a show, there is a lot of bullshit involved. The business side of it is a pain in the ass and that sometimes ruins it. If there wasn’t that then I would have no problem with it at all, I love doing shows.
It becomes more of a job than just playing?
[contemplating] Yeah. You’ve got to get into town at a certain time for soundcheck or it is a breach of contract. Or they fuck you over at the door. There’s so many different problems and I hate dealing with that stuff. I mean, if everyone would just be decent it wouldn’t be such a struggle all the time. That only happens occasionally but that’s just enough to piss everyone off and make everyone wonder if it is worth being out on the road. It is though, you can’t beat it. It’s just it’s own thing, there is nothing else that can replace it, but it’s also one of the hardest things you can do, I think.
Do you think you have gotten a reputation for your shows?
Our show is constantly changing. What we were doing a couple years ago...it’s different now. Sometimes we have periods where we are all feeling kind of stupid and goofy, we go on stage and clown around. And then sometimes we are all real pissy, not at each other but just at everything. Every year seems different. So, I think we do have a reputation for energetic live shows but the energy is any which way.
Do you feel the pressure to live up to your previous antics? Because you have a reputation for starting trouble in your old shows. Do you find that people expect that behavior from you?
Some people do but I don’t give a shit about those people. If something happens at a show it happens.
We are a band on the road, we really can’t afford to have shit happen but if it does I don’t care. None of us have money or anything; if something does happen, if we break equipment or if a fight breaks out, it means, ultimately, that we can’t play at that place again and we don’t get paid, or we might get fined. There are some rich kid bands out there that can afford to do that but we can’t. Also, some of that shit arises just because of the reputation we had when we were starting. It was years ago. We started playing in Spokane, our home town, and that is what happens to bands there, but it doesn’t mean that’s the kind of shit that happens in San Francisco or Denver. In Spokane, if you are going to try to start a band or play shows you are going to have to fight. Because the people at the bars, they are all old school people working at bars. If you’re different they think you’re gay and they want to bash you.
Old school? Like what?
They’re old school hick. Nowadays, just because it is almost the turn of the century, people kind of know what they’re dealing with even if you are from Montana or wherever. In Spokane it’s tough because it is really kind of conservative. When we started off no one else was dressing like us and no one else around was making music like we were and it just rubbed everybody the wrong way and we got into fights all the time. Not to mention we each bought a fifth of Old Crow and we would just drink, we were total fuck-ups. That was years and years ago. I don’t even drink that much anymore, when I do I freak out and it’s just like the old days [laughs]. But I can’t even handle that shit anymore. I can’t afford the hospital bills, I seriously can’t. When I was a kid you would go into the hospital and they would pay for it because you were so young, the government just writes it off. Nowadays, if I get fucked up, I can’t afford it, I’m going to be in trouble.
Do you ever have the problem of clashing with the audience?
I think that there are certain people that go to shows for all the wrong reasons and they are the ones that start the fights. If they are expecting to fight when they go to a show they are going to get in a fight. And we are not expecting to get in a fight when we go to shows, we are expecting to play a show and entertain everybody and ourselves. But there is always some dick who goes to the show expecting a fight and that’s what they get because they have that attitude right when they go. Those are the same fuckers that ruin all ages clubs. They’re just ex-jocks or something that decided that they are going to be punkers and they don’t know what it’s all about. They think it’s all about kicking shit over and beating up girls or getting in the pit and knocking everybody down. In my hometown, when those fuckers started to evolve that’s when all the all ages started to close down. Nobody wanted to go to shows because all the reformed jocks started to take over and nobody wanted to deal with that shit. And there are still a lot of people that come to shows and they think aggressive music means just kicking ass. We still see that. There will be normal fellas and women up front dancing and then some big dudes will pull off their shirts and start knocking them over and that’s just not how you do it. But, you know, dumb people, they’re everywhere. Fuck them, we can’t think about them too much, we can’t let them dictate our lives.
You were saying that when you first started you were the only ones in the area dressing like you did and playing that style of music. How would you explain the current trend of garage rock?
That’s funny because a lot of those same bands were the ones that I remember reading in magazines and they would make fun of bands like us. They would think we were gimmick bands or something. They would make reference to bands that wore suits as if to discredit them from being serious musicians. And now you turn on MTV and those same fuckers are all wearing suits. Even these people that were like Eighties grunge rockers or Eighties metal guys, they are kind of wearing suits now and they are kind of dressing up and they kind of have shorter hair. It’s just funny because now they are where they are and nobody seems to question it but years ago, when we started, we were the ones who had to take all the shit just so they could do it now, I guess. But that’s kind of how everything goes. They look stupid and they make stupid music, so fuck ‘em. I mean, don’t they?
How does fashion play into the band? Was it a conscious thing, like "we’re going to dress up"?
Kind of, but we all kind of dress up... This is what I wear to a show [showing us the scarf around his neck] like a scarf. But other than that I dress like this anyway, we all basically dress the same anyway. I might put on a fur coat or something for a show. Since we were in high school we have gone to thrift stores and bought our own clothes. And it starts off as an embarrassing thing because you don’t have enough money to go to the mall but then you have to get an attitude about it and start getting wild stuff. And you make it like "I choose to dress like this" and after awhile you really start to dig it and you start to find out that you really do like it and you can dress however you want.
The Makers have a vintage clothing line now, correct? I saw that in the new record.
Well, that is in the works. I’m kind of in the business because I like clothes so much and I work at a clothing store in Seattle. We are working on getting some sort of catalog going as far as vintage clothes go because we always get people asking us how they can get a certain jacket or something and we thought it would be cool if we could supply all our fans with cool clothes. And they could come to our show wearing stuff that they got from us. [laughter] It is more about creating some sort of unity with us and the people who listen to our records as opposed to some great business idea. We just want to dress up our fans because our fans are the only ones that would be interested in clothes that we have. It’s just a fun thing that we want to do and if it works it will be interesting but it will be a ‘just between you and me’ type thing that no one else will know about.
So you’re not going to have boutiques? [laughter] How would you explain some of the anti-Maker flack going on in the Northwest?
I have no idea. There has always got to be people that are a little bit hiper-than-thou and if anything gets a little bit popular they have to denounce it just because it’s a little bit popular. I know people like that and I don’t hold it against them because they are usually the ones that start off liking that certain band and they are the first ones to denounce them because they are popular. My problem with that is that those people they just want to keep everything down just because they want to keep their little secret to themselves. I’m just not into that. I like making records and having a lot of people hear it and you can’t hold that against us because we’re not making any money. Every record that sells just gives back into making more music and going on the road. When we get back, the money we make from touring is just going to go so we can record our next album. That’s just how it works. It’s a fucking waste of time for those assholes out there to talk shit about us, a band that is not making money, when they could be talking about Pearl Jam or something. I mean, they can’t possibly like them more than us. I can’t figure that out, why anybody would talk shit about us, when we are a working band of normal guys. And I think we are making pretty cool music, too. But, like I said, those people that are denouncing us are probably the ones that were the first ones to start digging us, that’s just the way people are.
How do you see yourselves fitting into rock’n’roll, punk, the music that’s around you?
We have never felt like we fit in anywhere and it’s kind of cool that way because that is kind of what keeps us going. When we started off we didn’t fit in with the mods, we didn’t fit in with the Sixties rockers, and we would go to San Francisco and we would clash with everybody because they would want to put us in a certain category and they couldn’t. They would try to talk shit about us but we still do great in San Francisco, people still love us there. We just did two shows in a row there and they were huge. It goes beyond that, we have always looked our own way and it’s always, I guess, been half this and half that. And we just don’t give a shit. We definitely don’t consider ourselves punk rockers anymore. I did when we were just starting, when I was in high school, because we were. We were punk rockers who found some thrift store suits. But nowadays I wouldn’t dare call myself a punk rocker when we just put out Psychopathia Sexualis, and especially the new songs we’re working on, it’s just fucking not punk rock. If I called it punk rock I would feel like an idiot. I think it has always been it’s own thing but now it is definitely just Makers, just our own music. When I listen to the stuff we are doing now I hear more of The Kinks and things that I grew up listening to, even Elvis Costello and stuff like that. As opposed to before it all sounded the same. It was us freaking out, going into the studio, getting really drunk and rocking out as hard as we can and recording an album in a day. Now we actually hang out in the studio a little bit longer and work on the songs. I don’t know what the fuck it is, I don’t even care. We don’t fit in anywhere and that’s bad for us, financially, because we could really try to appeal to indie rockers or garage rockers but we don’t. We are split, a quarter of this crowd likes us and half this crowd likes us. It’s not good for business but that’s how we are, that’s what makes us happy right now.
What kind of criticism have you gotten, good or bad, for Psychopathia Sexualis because it is a lot different?
We have actually gotten tons of good critiques. A lot of people are real optimistic about it, saying ‘fuck garage punk, it’s a dead end street.’ A lot of people tell us that we kind of helped define what garage punk was, so it was kind of up to us to work out of it, to get out of it. Kind of like The Kinks, I think. They were the first ones to play Sixties rock and then they were the first ones to work their way out of it, not into psychedelic but into pop kind of. Not to say we are a pop band, either. I think people look at us as people that represent them, underdogs who get to do what they want. Especially people that know us, our friends are happy that the album is successful because they can’t believe that a bunch of guys like us from a shitty little town who work shitty jobs can put out an album like this and have people like it and respect it. So it feels good because people they look at it as a representation of artistic freedom, I guess, because the garage punk scene is so facist. If you’re not playing through the right amp people get on your ass. People write insulting articles about you if you are playing through the wrong fucking amp. So we just made an album that we wanted to make and somehow people are still liking it. I mean, even Shane White in San Francisco, who is the most anal punk rock asshole, he totally loved it. He says he wants his next band to sound like that, he wants to be more melodic, and that just blew my mind because, to me, he is the quintessential purest punk rocker and if he’s into it then there must be something right on about it.
With the garage sound as well as the art on the records always having a retro look to them, is that intentional or also just kind of natural?
It’s just our tastes. We are the kind of guys where we’re not collectors or anything but we like old things. We like to go to thrift stores and buy our clothes instead of going to some hip new clothing store, for some reason we all drive old Sixties cars but they’re not all shiny and cool they’re beat up cars but they still look really cool. It’s just our tastes. I can only think of a couple bands nowadays that I listen to, most of the stuff I listen to is old. I like old rock’n’roll and old punk rock.
What’s the reason behind your fascination with old stuff?
I think it has to do with growing up and having to go to thrift stores and having to buy your records from the thrift store instead, as opposed to a big music store. That was never an option. Maybe on your birthday you would get a record from Tower. When I was younger and you would go to a thrift store you would still find old Sonics and Rolling Stones albums and Sam &Dave albums and John Coltraine and Leadbelly. You would actually find those in thrift stores and you would just, for some reason, instinctively know that that was what you wanted to hear as opposed to Herb Albert or something, not that that’s bad but where I was coming from those records never appealed to me. But for some reason you look at the cover of an old Impulse John Coltraine album and you just think ‘God, there’s got to be something to this,’ even when you don’t know. But you know how that feels?
Yeah, I love that you can tell just by the cover...
You’re just right. If you trust your own instincts you’re usually right because you know what you like. And when I was younger it’s not like we had any real peer pressure or anything because there was nobody around, most of the kids at our school we didn’t get along with that much, we just had a couple friends and we were all kind of doing the same thing. We didn’t have anybody else interrupting our thought. So the thrift stores are to blame, I guess, which is kind of weird.
Plus most modern music sucks.
Yeah, most modern music, for some reason, does suck. I like a few bands. I think what the Lord Hi Fixers are doing is pretty interesting, and the Make-Up, and there’s some other ones that I like too except I can’t remember, but those are the ones that I can think of off hand. There’s just not that many. Most of the bands I just like a little bit of what they do. It’s hard for me to listen to an entire album but that’s just how I am. Modern music is weird, maybe because I know where it is all coming from, there’s no mystery. I rarely hear something where it just blows my mind and I think "God, where are these people from?" I know and I can tell all their references and usually I don’t really like it. But I think bands like the Make-Up, what they are doing is really cool. And it’s the way that they have good tastes and they obviously are putting different elements together, old elements, but it works the way they do it. They’re D.C. kids making soul music and that’s exactly what it sounds like and that’s why I like it, it sounds weird. They know that it’s not real soul music, they just know what it is but they do it whole heartedly and you got to admire it.
They created their own style: Gospel Yeah-Yeah.
[laughter] Anybody who does something and it is so full on, you got to admire it. What they are doing, that’s the way they are. I’ve met them on their off hours and that is just how they are. They are the Make-Up all the time, it’s really cool.
How come you haven’t included lyrics on your records?
Probably because we can’t afford to have the lyric sheets, but with our latest album we probably should have done that because in our CD we had a booklet and we had postcards in our LP. It is kind of a big, bold step. For some reason I would cringe at that idea, I would have when we were putting together our last album but now I don’t think I would have a problem with it. But before it seemed like a real pretentious thing. I mean, I was worried about putting our artwork in there because I thought that is kind of our own thing but then I realized it is no different than music, your own music. What’s the difference? It’s all the same, it’s something that you have created and it’s you, and that’s the same with lyrics. Why should I be shy about writing my lyrics down? Unless they really suck. I think with our next album we will probably do that. I don’t know, do you think it would be cool if we did?
Certainly. I always like a lyric sheet. It always makes a record better.
That’s the weird thing because I always love it too. I always read lyrics but with our own albums I never really thought that was a good idea. That’s a problem, I guess I was considering too much of what other people would think instead of just what I would want to do. That is something everyone has got to overcome.
What direction do you see the next album taking?
It is going to be like Psychopathia except more, if you know what I mean. It is hard to say because you never know how it’s going to turn out until it’s done. It’s always the opposite of how you think. It depends on where you go and how you are feeling at the time. From what I can sense from our songs that we have written--we have already written thirteen more songs--they are all good. It is in the same vein as Psychopathia except twice as much, it’s twice as sincere I think. Probably less of a party album and I think it will be a lot more personal which sounds pretty stupid but also I think that’s an important thing. I mean, that’s what I look for in music. That’s why I like the bands I like nowadays, is because there is some sort of emotion to it. You listen to it and you can hear a person coming through and I think our next album is going to be a lot more like that.