Growing up in Tokyo, I had a misshaped vision of what punk and hardcore music was. The bands I would go see live were mainly from Tokyo and Osaka. They had elements derivative of traditional Western punk and hardcore but the way they sounded was so different from anything I’ve heard, even to this day, in America. This country, which consists of a small cluster of islands, has developed its sound in the depths of underground clubs in Tokyo (such as Antinock, 20000 Volt, and Shelter) where noise, hardcore, experimental, and rock music have been fused into a new entity – a growing organism that dwells in the bowels of the urban landscape until either discovered by the curious outsider or it gathers enough energy to conquer foreign territory. Some bands that come to mind, who play in this avant-garde rock vein, are The Ruins, Kirihito, Omoidehatoba, OOIOO, Man Woman, World, and, of course, Melt Banana.

When Melt Banana first appeared, I was excited that another great experimental rock band had emerged from Tokyo. When they started out I never thought they would be equated with hardcore music, and as you’ll find in this interview they didn’t either. Starting out as an abstract, structurally experimental band, they have progressed into one of the most driving, sonically challenging groups around. They tour constantly, letting crowds all over the world know that they will keep rocking until the roads go no further.

As a member of a touring band myself (Black Dice), I tried to ask questions I could learn from, and during the course of our conversation I was reminded again of the ups and downs of the touring lifestyle. It’s not all fun and games, especially if you are coming from another country where they don’t speak your native language at all. I conducted the interview in Japanese, in hopes of getting a clear vision of their mission. Black Dice had just done a few shows on the East coast with Melt Banana and after our last show with them (at the Otto Bar in Baltimore, Maryland) I got the chance to sit down with Yasuko (vocalist) and Agata (guitarist) to talk about Japanese music, the American audience, and touring.

How has Melt Banana’s style changed since the band started?

YASUKO: When we started playing people thought we sounded avant-garde. We didn’t really think we sounded that way but people grouped us together with the noise and avant-garde scene.

AGATA: I think the fact that we sucked at playing our instruments had something to do with it. [laughter] Before, we would try to come up with parts that we played in a strange way, but now we are more formulaic.

Y: Yeah, it was less about the riffs being this way or that way or the sound being good but more about just doing it. After we put out a split record with D.A., we started playing shows with hardcore and grindcore bands. We started getting more influenced by that stuff.

Where do you think you fit in with the Japanese music scene? Do you like doing shows with different types of bands or do you like playing hardcore bills?

A: We like playing with all kinds of bands. We play with fastcore/grind bands a lot and, also, alternative style bands (what do you call it… college rock?). There are also times when we play with noise bands. But we don’t have situations where we play with, like, jazz bands. You know?

Y: We run all over the place. We don’t stay put.

What are your influences when it comes to the way you play and perform? Both of you have very distinct styles.

A: I really couldn’t play the guitar when I started. Instead of trying to learn to play the right way I thought, ‘How could I play without working too hard and still sound like somebody who can really play?’ I started by changing from regular tuning to open tuning, so even if I couldn’t hold regular chords I could hold these ones. And I couldn’t move my hands quickly, so I fucked around with the slide. [laughs] After a while, I started using the top part of the neck. I guess I started practicing the guitar after that.

Y: Maybe you didn’t start practicing but you got better because you had been playing for so long. I guess for me, when I thought about bands I remembered ‘I can’t decipher these bands from each other because they sound similar.’ So, I really wanted to find a distinctive style – which is to make it so when you heard it you would go ‘Oh yeah.’ I was always into the “kyakyakyakya” type singing and by staying with it I found what I do now.

I think it’s important that you have such a strong stage presence. Everybody in the band seems confident and that really helps convince the audience that this is something they should keep watching.

Y: Maybe it’s because I have a “this is the way I am” type presence on stage. [laughs]

A: We’ve all talked about the Yasuko attitude. Even if you were about to beat her to the door…

Y: It’s me first. It’s all about me. [laughs]

Do you think the American and Japanese audiences react differently to you?

A: These days the audiences seem similar.

Y: I wouldn’t say similar but, before touring in the U.S., we didn’t play out that much and when we did the audience was quiet or reserved. We didn’t play for the hardcore crowd. Then we came to America and saw that the crowd would go nuts and I wondered if the Japanese audience was just quieter, in general. But these days the audiences in Japan have a lot of energy, too. The kids will come up to us to talk after the shows.

So that was a recent thing? I think the kids in Japan have been into you guys since the beginning.

A: Maybe the crowd [in Japan] is more positive or kids that want to go apeshit will come to our shows now. Before, I think most of the people who came to our shows were the serious listeners. Sometimes, when the crowd is going too crazy, I wonder if they are even listening. It’s nice that the audience has sort of widened; as a band, we like to have both of those types of people at the shows.

So, you like watching the crowd go buckwild?

A: Yeah, it reminds you that you are playing a show. [laughs] But the mixture is good. Even if the serious listeners are standing in the back with their arms crossed, if they are smiling I can hope that they are enjoying the show.

I thought the crowd in Philly the other day was pretty judgmental or stiff. They were the intent listener type, maybe. But they were into it.

A: We were worried that the sound was bad in the club because we didn’t have time for a soundcheck. Maybe that was why?

It sounded good where the audience was.

Y: It totally depends on the city. When you go to the South they go nuts.

A: It really does change. But that’s what touring is about: it can be fun or we can get self-conscious.

Are there any bands that you have played with in Japan recently that you have been into?

A: There’s some band from Osaka who we played with called Jelly O or Jelly Roll or something (I forget exactly what the name was but the drummer for World plays drums for them). It’s kind of like a typical fastcore band but they do INU and ABURADAKO covers. They are pretty cool.

Y: They are pretty poppy but the songs are cool. They were great.

Is Kirihito still around?

Y: Yeah, they’re still going on strong. We don’t do shows with them anymore, though.

A: It’s because we did so many shows with them at one point.

Y: We used to play with them all the time, but not very much these days.

A: Our timing is a little off or the events don’t mesh well with us. Anyway, when I first saw World I thought they were great. They don’t sound anything like [Black Dice] but the groove is similar to [that] style of music.

I haven’t heard them yet.

A: Oh yeah? They are definitely on the same wavelength or rhythm. The end result is totally different but the progressive aspect of the linear structuring is similar to theirs. World is awesome. Also, 3-2-4 is intense. That band plays so fast.

What American bands have you been blown away by on this tour?

A: Lightning Bolt blew me away by how loud they were. Blow Up were great. They’re from Columbus, Ohio. They sound like a less fucked up version of The Locust. But Providence bands are always the craziest. They’re all insane. They are all so loud. [laughs] Even Black Dice: while we were up here in the backstage waiting room [two floors above the stage] we could feel how loud you were… so much louder than the band playing now [Heroine Sheiks]. We could feel it all the way up here. We love Fat Day. Also, Sicbay was pretty cool.

Their rhythm was pretty interesting.

A: It sounded like it was crumbling but still felt together.

Y: But it still sounded pretty. Yeah, they were cool.

It’s funny how, depending on what kind of band you play with, you feel influenced somehow. When we played with U.S. Maple, I felt a little influenced by their live performance.

A: That happens to us, too. Depending on what bands we play with, we start listening to different music.

Y: Yeah, that happens…

A: You experience things at a live show that can’t be expressed on a CD or something. Sometimes you can’t understand why this or that music exists when you hear a recording but you get a greater understanding of that music when you experience it live. That’s why it’s fun to play shows with bands like [Black Dice]. You get influenced in a positive way. It makes it harder, too… we get nervous from it. [laughs]

It makes you work harder.

A: Absolutely.

Do you have any historically dreadful American tour stories?

A: The worst story is so bad I can’t even tell you about it.

Y: It’s too horrible of a story. But what else is there? I guess getting our t-shirts stolen.

A: We’ve had things get stolen now and then. Not on this tour. But we got our t-shirts stolen out of the van while we were recording in… Boston was it?

That sucks. You mean the last show in Boston?

A: No, that was three years ago.

Y: But the worst is van problems.

A: Yeah, that’s the worst. Last tour we had to cancel five shows because of our van. That was harsh.

Do you own that van or rent it?

A: This time around we rented a van.

Y: This van has got a lot of power, it doesn’t know when to stop. So far we haven’t had any problems but it’s only been two weeks…

A: You never know what’s going to happen on tour, something dreadful can happen so sudden. We could be happy with this van on the outside but deep down there is a little worry.

Van problems really suck…

A & Y: They really do.

Do you have jobs when you are in Japan?

A: Yeah, just here and there. Short-term/part-time jobs.

So, can you live off of the money you make at shows?

A: That is definitely not the case. [laughs] I was lying when I said here and there. We work pretty steadily.

Can you make enough while on tour here to take back to Japan?

A: We can make a decent amount but it isn’t, like, ‘Oh, we did the tour so we can hang out for the rest of the year.’ [laughs] Before we come here for tour we all have to save up to pay our rent and what not. Honestly, it gets pretty annoying when drunken kids come up to us and tell us to go out to a party or something… We don’t mind putting our friends or acquaintances on the guest list but when some kid rides up on his skateboard and says, ‘My friends told me about you guys, I don’t have any change so can you get me in?’ It just gets annoying because we come here to work hard on the tour.

That is a frustrating situation.

A: It is frustrating sometimes.

Have you toured in other parts of Asia?

Y: No, we haven’t.

Do Japanese bands ever go to other Asian countries?

A: I’ve heard of bands going to China to play.

Y: Ruins went to China to tour, right?

A: This band Envy went, too.

Envy, who’s that?

A: They’re an “emo grind” band. So, it’s really fast but they are still crying. [laughter] But they are pretty good, though.

Y: Those bands have made it over.

A: Ruins said their tour was on the intellectual side, but was good. Envy did a more punk tour. So, they played in totally different places.

I never hear that much about bands from Asia.

A: I guess we don’t hear about anything above average [in the rest of Asia]. In Japan, you hear of bands because you’re, like, ‘What the hell is that about?’ But maybe we don’t hear about them because everything is just standard. We’ve never heard anything out of the ordinary.

Y: It sounds like there are a lot of bands in Singapore. There are supposed to be a lot of fastcore bands, but I’ve never heard of anything strange coming from there.

I wonder if they just don’t exist?

Y: It sounds like they are doing a lot in Singapore (or in that area). It sounds like a fun scene.

A: It sounds like fun. We get a lot of mail from Singapore and Malaysia telling us about the fastcore scenes.

Wow, I want to hear what that stuff is like.

A: We got a tape from someone in China, didn’t we?

Y: Yeah, I think so. I left it at home.

A: One time, this band from Japan called Nikudorei brought a band over from Singapore for a hardcore festival – a bunch of bands on an all night bill at Club Citta.

Wow, all night?

A: Yeah. So, since they came so far, they put them on at the end of the bill as the draw. But by the time they went on everybody was so exhausted. It was 3 or 4a.m. by that time. It was just so many hardcore bands… I sort of felt bad for them. People were just covering their ears by the end.

That can be so exhausting, when you play on a hardcore-only bill.

A: Yeah. It was fun, anyway. We knew everybody there. The best shows I’ve seen in Japan are when all different types of bands play together. Even if the bands are “hardcore” bands, the bill would be, say, the Ruins, Spasmom, Kirihito, and Melt Banana. That is so much funner.

What cities in Japan do you like playing in, other than Tokyo?

Y: Osaka is really fun.

A: Fukuoka was fun, too.

The audiences at shows in Osaka really get into it.

A: Yeah, they have a good time.

I went to a Spasmom, Kirihito, Droop show there and the crowd kept joking around with the bands. It was fun.

A: One time we played and we kept trying to speak in Osaka accents during the show. And because we were trying so hard the crowd started getting annoyed. Somebody wrote on the bulletin board: “They were trying too hard.” That was a little sad. We practiced at three shows in Tokyo, speaking in an Osaka accent during the shows, but they didn’t get into it in Osaka. We played in Tokyo with an Osaka band, Assfort, and they taught us the accent backstage.

Y: We haven’t toured Japan the way we tour in the U.S.

A: We would like to do an extensive tour there, playing all over the mainland.

That sounds like fun. The audience must be out there.

A: It’s just a pain because at clubs in Japan the bands have to sell a certain amount of tickets to play or you have to shell out your own money to play at a club. It’s not like over here where you book a show at a club and they let you play pretty much for free, as long as they get a small percentage from the door and make money at the bar.

Y: This band Forward has toured all over Japan and has been successful because they have so many connections. We don’t have those connections to all regions in Japan, so it’s hard.

A: I’m envious of that. We wish we could do that.

Have you ever played in Hokaido [northern most island of Japan off the mainland]?

A: No.

It seems like there are a lot of bands up there.

A: He’s from Hokaido [pointing at the drummer, Ohshima]. So, if we go there, I’m sure something good could happen. But the trip there is the problem.

When you play in Japan do you use your own equipment? [Most bands in Japan don’t need to own equipment because clubs have amps, drums, and PA systems already there. The same with practice spaces.]

A: I usually bring my own head and use the club’s speaker cabinet. If they don’t have one, I’ll borrow one from somebody.

Oh, wow.

A: We don’t have a van in Japan, so we just bring our heads.

Do you think there is a good scene in Japan right now?

A: Yeah, definitely. Especially fast hardcore bands – new ones keep forming where, when you hear them, you think ‘Oh, that kind of hardcore exists, too.’ So there seems to be a lot of fun bands out there. There are so many. I don’t really know what unknown great bands exist right now.

Y: The alternative rock scene [emo/indie rock] is a little weak right now.

A: Bands like Kirihito, Man Woman, or Kira.

Man Woman is still around…?

Y: There hasn’t been a band like Kirihito that stands out as an interesting group but…

So, there are a lot of normal sounding bands that don’t stand out as gems right now?

Y: Yeah.

A: It’s probably because we haven’t seen that much.

Y: They probably exist, but one that shines hasn’t emerged in a while. So, compared to that scene, it seems like there are a lot of fastcore bands.

A: Even if we’ve never heard of them, when we play with new bands and there is something good happening, we find ourselves asking about the band that just played. Our roadie has some live recordings of Man Friday and Tomorrow that sound good.

So, there’s an emo scene in Japan?

A: Emo is really popular right now.

Y: It’s really big.

I was surprised when bands like Gaji started appearing.

A: They sound more alternative than emo. If you’re talking about emo, there are bands like Blood Thirsty Butchers or Number Girl. Number Girl is so popular they’ll draw one thousand people to a show, easily.

Really?

A: They’ll sell out On Air East [a very large rock club] in Tokyo. I don’t know much about them.

I don’t get it. I don’t get into emo, so it confuses me as to why it exists in every country and is such a popular thing.

A: Yeah.

Over here At The Drive-In…

A: We heard that for the first time the other day.

They are really huge here right now.

A: Really? We didn’t know that.

Y: I wasn’t very impressed by it. It sounds like American music that was popular for a while…

A: They sound a little junkie… like they were into Big Black but instead of making something good out of it they made something bland. [laughter] Oh man, I am talking so much shit.

Y: They sound kind of old school. I thought the singer was good; it sounds like he was working hard.

A: Yeah, the vocals were good but the rest of the music was pretty normal.

They sound like a Dischord band.

A & Y: I can see that.

I’m excited to see more bands like yours and mine - who use sounds in a different way in musical structure - keep popping up. Do you have any favorite places in Europe?

A: Italy is definitely the craziest.

The crowd is wild?

A: Not just that but the promoters and…

Y: The country, as a whole, is nuts.

A: From the driver to everybody else. You know those skinny little Japanese roads? Well, the drivers would drive 90 miles an hour through the skinniest streets.

Y: So fast, so fast.

A: Really late at night. Just so insane.

Y: They have some crazy traditions. Like, they won’t start a show unless everybody has sat down at the dinner table and eaten together.

A: They give you amazing food but they make you keep eating until right before you play. I wondered if we’d even be able to play, we were so full.

Y: They have such a chaotic lifestyle.

A: I don’t like that kind of atmosphere, usually, but in Italy it feels right. We can enjoy it. That’s why it’s such a different type of country.

Y: France was really fun, too.

A: Yeah, France was fun, wasn’t it?

Y: Before we thought they were the intellectual types, with their noses up high, but last time we went I was, like, ‘Are they wild dogs instead of being intellectual snobs?’ [laughter]

A: They were energetic there. It was really fun. Europe is really great. Usually everything is set up well. Once you are there: the club is set up, we’ll have a hotel, they feed you well.

Does the label take care of that stuff?

A: The European promoters deal with it. If it’s really well set up you can tell that the countries are supporting it financially.

Wow, I see.

A: There would be cases where we thought we shouldn’t be getting so much money, because not that many people would be at the show.

Y: It’s definitely different than the U.S. That’s why it’s fun.

A: We just ended up buying equipment.