topics

Threads - Frogs, Soundscapes & Smellscapes, Frog & Dogscapes

On 17/5/2004, Gerald Cairns wrote:

I have just photographed a small frog not seen before, could be quite common because my attentions have been directed to industrial matters for quite a long time. It is about 2 cm long and not a tree frog i.e. no suction pads and was calling vigorously near our dam so presume it is possibly mature. Definitely not a young cane toad.

It has a black centre stripe down its back in the centre of which is a fine yellow stripe. Either side of the black stripe are two orange stripes, the legs are orange and a black stripe runs from the side of snout to the shoulder. Sides are grey with black markings belly is plain grey.

Haven't been able to identify it, no time and did not examine the dentition for fear of injuring it

Two views of the frog found at Ferndale, May 2004

Podargus replied:

Nice pics.

It looks like Limnodynastes peroni. If so, it is not fully grown; on the given size . Gerald can you describe the call?

Gerald Cairns replied:

Now you ARE asking my last two neurones to talk to each other! The difficulty is that there were several calls at the time and I used them very carefully and quietly to locate the frog and you know how they go quiet as you approach. The problem is identifying the call with its owner. There was another frog about the same size but different species nearby but its call was a mournful sort of wail and it looked like sumo wrestler, like some of those burrowing frogs. I was lucky enough to actually see the second frog in mid call before it went quiet and jumped into the dam, so no photo.

It is probably too cold now but I will endeavour to do something about this next season. We are disturbing the local environment by doing a lot of regrowth and weed clearing that has got totally out of control while I have
been otherwise engaged. We have two dams fringed by various native trees on the banks and encouraged plenty of undergrowth around the banks even though the drought has made this very difficult. This has had two effects, firstly it has created a very attractive environment for the wildlife and secondly it caused some leakage in the dams from penetration by tree roots. The latter seems to have settled down and leakage is now reducing to a tolerable level. We also have a remanent vegetation area of about 3 hectares that will not be touched but the Wattles have gone mad, drought hasn't bothered them. Previously the Property was selectively cleared
leaving scattered groups of trees and associated undergrowth and this produced a very visually pleasing mix of pasture and bush. We had a lot of wild life in this environment, such as koalas, wallabys pottaroos, nesting
crested hawks etc.

It would be a lot easier If I could get paid for my R&D and resulting innovations instead of being ripped off all the time. I might then be able to afford the equipment to get the information. It seems that IP is still regarded as fair game for theft in Aust. "...you transfer it to us for nix then when we prove it commercially we will discuss a fee!"?????????????????

So much for the Clever Country/Smart State etc. you present them with IP that solves their work place health and safety, environmental problems and in the process will save millions of dollars annually internally plus give
them the potential to sell this IP World wide and they want it for nothing???????????

Right now I am kicking buts and have a representative on his way to the States where the US Armed Forces is interested so I guess I will give the local bunch of political half-wits the big "A" and finally give up on Australia. I have some heavy weight legal assistance but I am not sure that this will be enough to sort them out and we will probably be in our boxes by the time this lot wake up to themselves.

and later:

I did not ask the following questions that should have grabbed me,

1. do these frogs normally call as immature juveniles?

2. do these frogs actually breed at significantly below their presumed full
size?

3. why would an immature frog attract attention to itself?

Tamara answered:

YEP! Totally agree - Striped Marsh Frog. I think full grown size is approx 7 or 8 cm. I had LOTS of them in Southport.

Only have a few here.

Their call is akin to a tennis match.

Gerald Cairns replied:

Thanks to Tam and Pod for the ID.

Still leaves open the question why juveniles would bother calling?

Podargus responded:

It does. I have asked a mate who is even more knowledgeable than me :-) on this matter for a comment.

Could the ones you actually heard calling have been adults? They normally call from in the water, which makes the individual calling hard to find. Tamara's description of the call is a good one. You will note that I wasn't prepared to ask a leading question, I don't think Gerald would fall for agreeing with a leading question, but most people do in my experience, at least when identifying animals.

Ray commented:

>>>Still leaves open the question why juveniles would bother calling?

Maybe they just like the sound of their own voice? -or perhaps they're practicing for their adult choir.

Ray responded:

>>Could the ones you actually heard calling have been adults?

Now why didn't I think of that Podargus?
D'oh!

Ray
-who kind of likes leading questions and very much appreciates a person who knows their stuff.

Gerald Cairns answered:

You are right, it is difficult to pinpoint the source for reasons already mentioned but the one which I did see so could identify with the one of the many sounds floating around at the time was about the same size. I simply do not have enough knowledge of amphibians here but my reaction was that it seemed too small to be mature. This was the one that looked more like a toad (sumo wrestler) very much like the burrowing frogs I have seen illustrated in various places. This does not preclude that this one was mature.

The reason for my interest was the seemingly unusual range of sounds for the first time in about 22 years here, hence the curiosity. Lots of new noises since the "drought has broken" up this way, keeping my fingers crossed. I guess there are still possibilities of undiscovered species in these relatively populated areas. I argue that if I see it then it is more than likely than not to have been described already.

I am certain that there are more than one New Age Serf and Dancing Bears around, and this evening with my doctor, whilst digging out a very large splinter from my hand, we have decided that we need to set up a conservatory in the form of a sheltered workshop for pollies. I will nominate them and he will certify them. I suppose I should not have said that.:-)

and to Tamara:

This is the only specimen that I have seen around here let alone a mature adult of 7-8 cm but they must exist obviously. I did not hear the "TOC TOC" sound but there were lots of new, to me, sounds at the time including the mournful wail of the other small frog that I managed to locate and identify as the source. I am encouraged that they should be present after such a severe and extended drought and the presence of so many cane toads that lately I have done little to curb.

The overall effect was a background of life noises that we tend to associate with environments like Kakadu, it was a pleasant experience after such a long time of relative silence. There should be more of it, but it only lasted a couple of nights and things went more or less quiet again - why??? Synchronised joy perhaps.

Margaret Ruwoldt wrote:

>The reason for my interest was the seemingly unusual range of sounds for
>the first time in about 22 years here, hence the curiosity. Lots of new
>noises since the "drought has broken" up this way...

I've had a similar experience down south, where some sort of frog has decided its preferred evening entertainment is to sit in the shrubbery under my lounge-room window and sing a few old favorites. The recital seems to start at about 7.00 pm and finishes at around 11.00 pm and, as far as I can tell, is a solo performance. Rather lovely :-)

This frog is definitely *not* living in the water-lily tub out the back of the house, and there are no other ponds or pools in the immediate vicinity (ie my or my neighbors' gardens), so where the frog comes from and where it goes after the show is a bit of a mystery. And it won't come out of the shrubbery so I can see what it looks like: vocal, but shy ;-)

Tamara responded:

like synchronised lust.

The Striped Marshies are very good at colonising and breeding up. They are also refered to as "acid frogs" because they can stand a low pH. Watch they don't become the "new toad on the block".

With regard to your sumo wrestler frog - there's a LOT of froggies with that body shape but I am betting on a Banjo frog.

In my shower here in Gin Gin I very appropriately have naked tree frogs and quite a few of the Peron's / Tyler's Tree frogs (I can't tell the difference). Outside I have found banjos, greenies, striped marshies, eastern sedge, red tree frogs and of course a lot of toads!

Gerald...do you have a cattle prod? If so can you please try it out on a toad or two? I want to know if it works on them - if it does I'll buyor make one. My friend seems to think their nervous system might be too simple to be affected by a quick jolt of electricity. I really don't want to spray them with dettol and I'm running out of room in my freezer.

Ray suggested:

Increase the Wattage.
They'll cook irrespective of any voltage tolerance.

Gerald Cairns wrote:

What intrigues me is how these animals have managed to survive this drought. For virtually years now we have had either dust or vegetable trash that crackled like walking on spilt sugar. These frogs must have capacities way beyond what I expected of them, how deep do they burrow etc. There has been virtually no soil moisture close to the surface for a long time and even now the soil is a long way from being fully hydrated again.

Anyway nice to know they have survived and might be able to do in spite of the cane toads.

I made a trap using a plastic box with two spring loaded trap doors and a solar light on top with a white background to attract the insect to. Caught a couple of toads but the light has insufficient intensity and durability so its back to the drawing board. If a low cost durable trap could be designed and these placed around as many lakes and dams as possible we could make a big dent in their numbers. But I suppose we would be required to service them on humanitarian grounds and that could be a problem.

When you hear the melodious trill of the cane toad you should shudder as they will have made it to Vic.

Tamara observed:

The problem is if a trap can catch a toad then it can catch a frog and the toads will happily make a meal of them while in the trap.

John Winckle commented:

A trap can be made that catches all hoppers but frogs (being better jumpers) can hop out of and cane toads cannot. A low netting wire fence should do.

Gerald Cairns posted:

My plan was to use PVC tube with netting around the inside diameter to provide a means of escape and for the smaller frogs and any small mammals a space behind the wire while they climb out. Toads are lousy climbers. Still thinking about this but considering the number of toads that inhabit the region of white wall outside my "lab" and the virtual non existent frogs from the same region I suspect that the frogs would avoid the location. All of the frogs that take advantage of the lights from the house at night are up on the windows. Even if a few frogs were eaten, provided the number of toads captured was high then this would surely be compensated for by the removal of the toads from circulation.

I investigated using tritium light panels that are good and very bright for about 11 years but apart from the associated reactions to radioactivity from the public I got interrogated why I was interested in radioactive substances and no answers were forth coming from the suppliers they just stopped corresponding. I also investigated the fluorescent paints but despite the claims of last for 10 hours and being very bright none came near what was required.

Another problem would be vandalism but if enough of these were around in out of the way areas we would be attacking the toad where it is at present unchallenged.

The other problem facing this approach is flooding during rain with the escape of the toads.

Of course we could get into GM and begin implanting our reptiles and birds with genes for resistance to the bufo toxins.

and to David Allen:

I find that if a deep PVC tube of say 150 mm diam. is used the toads have great difficulty in jumping out, they seem to limitations in the angle of inclination. My trap also had drop doors so that if they tried to jump out they hit the doors and fell back. Still cogitating on this there has to be an acceptable and effective way of limiting these toads.

Kurt Alexander replied, in the thread "Frog & Dogscapes":

Frogs in that typically moist environment would necessarily engage in olfaction with more fluids so leave most 'odours' where the environment remains moist though I understand there is a secondary olfaction with them via their skin or at least channelling of solutes into olfaction/taste from the skin like the fish and shark with their sense of touch extended by the lateral line wherein the sexual pheromones were/are prevalent in that gathering den of iniquity of your bathroom and enroute like a string of text messages teenagers fan out behind them on arriving at a 'hip' and necessarily parent imposed illegal party where booze, boys and chicks/babes are at free to do as they will namely be silly, make a mess and fools of themselves for usually apparent parental units detection later

ahhh everything in the microsm is reflected in the macrocosm
and everything in the macrocosm is reflected in the microcosm
(Kurt's underlying fine arts assertion)

frogs in the south west unlike those I have seen in the north west recently viz the Pilbara who love to gravitate to toilet cisterns too and make a big noise for their comparatively small size, are shy of humans and their habitats because moisture prevails in those environments longer elsewise they lay dormant in moist soils until the rains begin again

I dare say if you had these (south west frogs) Pobblebonks in your loo defecation and urination notwithstanding you'd leave them there for the amazing sound they make of which I have a recording somewhere when I find it, I'll send you a sample

<< home < Articles

Australian Frogs -

was "Can You Name this Frog?",

Australian Frogs -

was "Can You Name this Frog?",