Interview with Air Force Lt. Colonel Wayne Mattson
on the UFO Phenomena
by Tony Rullan
I first met Wayne in one of El Paso's monthly MUFON mettings during a discussion of the just
released Phillip Corso book The Day After Roswell. I knew from references that Wayne was
a retired Lieutenant Colonel from the Air Force,and that he used to work at Holloman AFB. He
looked,behaved,and talked like a career military man. he knew plenty about missile technology
and military aircraft and seemed to be in the know of what is going on around Holloman and
White Sands. That day,when we were talking about the Corso book,I expected wayne to fully
debunk the book.Wayne,however,stated that Corso was not telling the full story.This piqued my
curiosity and forced me to learn more about this fascinating man. Below is a brief summery of an
interview I had with him in Roswell on October 11,1997.
Who is Lt.Colonel Mattson?
Wayne was born in Fon du Lac,Wisconsin.At the age of 17,he enlisted in the Army-Air Force,but
shortly after that,in 1951,he joined the Naval Academy.He graduated from Annapolis in 1955 and
joined the Air Force.(In 1955,25% of Navy midshipmen went into the Air Force since there was no
Air Force Academy at the time)Shortly after getting his wings in the Air Force,he joined the
Strategic Air Command(SAC).At SAC,he flew B-47 bombers from1959 until the end of 1962.
After SAC,he went to the Air Force Institute of Technology at the University of Wyoming,where he
got a degree in Aeronautical Engineering.After getting his degree,he went to Edwards Air Force
Base to do research testing of new aircraft.He worked on the testing of F-111.In 1968,after his
experience at Edwards AFB,he was ordered to go to Thailand to become the Forward Air
Controller on O2a aircraft flying reconnaissance missions over the Ho-Chi-Min Trail in Laos.After
his duty in Thailand,he was sent to Holloman AFB to do aircraft and missile tests.Then he went to
work at Wright Patterson AFB as Test Director fot the Air-to-Ground Missile Program.In 1979,he
retired and went to work for Hughes Aircraft Company.He worked on engineering,safty,security
and cryptography issues at Hughes.In 1989 he retired from Hughes and movet to Alamogordo
where he now resides.He currently does volunteer work at the Space Center Museum in
Alamogordo and spends his free time pursuing his interests in the History of Space Technology
and UFO's.
In the early 90's,Wayne researched and co-authored a book on the history of Holloman AFB.It
was a project called Legacy,funded by the Department of Defence.It's purpose was to recapture
the early history of Holoman AFB.Wayne wrote the third volume which is was the history ot the
testing done at Holloman.The title of the book was We develope Missiles not Air and it was
published in 1995. The document is not classified and there id a copy at the Space Center
Library and at the Alamogordo public library.In the process of writing this book,however,Wayne
met a lot of people and got a lot of interesting stories.
What got you interested in UFO's?
In 1953,the senior AF advisor at the Naval Academy,Colonel Dean Hess,talked to the Abvaition
Club where Wayne was the editor.Colonel Hess told a tale of the latest UFO incident in West
Virginia where a flying saucer landind was observed by multiple witnesses.The witnesses claim to
have seen creatures coming down the hill where the saucer landed and a terrible odor emanated
from the landing site. The local sheriff and a couple of armed troopers went up the hill and also
smelled the terrible odor.However,as soon as the sheriff and the troopers approached the hill,the
object took off.The odor disappeared along with the object.
This is the first time Wayne ever heard about UFO's directly from a credible AF officer and it
remained in his memory ever since.Nevertheless,it was just a tale and did not compel Wayne to
believe in UFO's.
It was a personal incident in 1959 that began to change his mind.In 1959,he was stationed in
Tampa Florida and was flying B-47's.One day he was flying north from his home base in Tampa
when he observed on his radar that 4 to 5 objects were crossing left to right in front of and
below the aircraft.These object were rapidly approaching his plane at about 1,700 M.P.H.The
objects eventually left and he never got to see them.Nevertheless,this was the first time he had
tracked UFO's on his radar and this made him think that maybe UFO's are for real.While this radar
sighting piqued Wayne's curiosity,he was too busy with his flying and ground work to do any
serious UFO research.What he did was to begin buying books and reading about the subject matter.
Wayne's first visual sighting happened in 1969 while he was flying over Thailand.On thei day,Wayne
was the navigator and a friend of his was piloting the plane.They were comming beck from a
mission over Laos,when he got a call from ground radar that said that there was an unidentified
aircraft following his plane from behind and above.Wayne.however,could not see any other planes
around him.He and the pilot decided to turn all the aircraft's light off and take a climbing right
hand turn to see what what was chasing them.Because it wea a full moon night and the moon was to
the west they were expecting to see the moonlight reflection on the enemy plane comming from the
east once they made their turn.Nevertheless,the moment they made their right hand turn,the object
from the ground radar scope.Because Wayne and the pilot did not see any aircraft either,they
decided to make a decending left-hand turn.Suddenly they saw two full moons just above,side by
side.Then the moon on the right rotated 90 degrees from a circular shape to a crescent disk shape
in a matter od seconds.It accelerated and just disappeared.Wayne and the pilot agreed not to
report what they saw because they didn't want to"screw up their military career".
This incident convinced Wayne of the reality of the UFO phenomenon.He continued to collect UFO
books and today he has over 380 books on the subject matter.While for many years he treated the
subject matter as interesting,he decided to get serious about investgating the phenomenon only after
he retired from Hughes Aircraft and in particular after he nearly died of a mysterious and
unexpected internal abscess in 1991.Ever since 1991,he has dedicated plenty of time investigating
landing and sighting cases around Alamogordo and pursuing the rich UFO history around Holloman
AFB and White Sands Missile Range.Today,Wayne is an authority on what has happened(not just
UFO phenomena but also the history of the basea and their technologies)around Holloman and
White Sands.
The best case that he has investigated happened in 1996 when a UFO landed at the La Luz gate to
Holloman AFB.To get to the La luz gate you go west on hwy.544 from la Luz cross hwy.70,and go
all way to the boundry of White Sands Missile Range.The La Luz gate allows access into Holloman
AFB.This incident was witnessed by a law enforcement officer from Tularosa.This police officer
was on patrol when he saw this strange craft land just in side the gate.He left it alone because
it was on the military side.During his next go around patrol,however,the place was swarming with
military personnel but the object was gone.He decided the described the object as a disk with a
dome on top.
Wayne believes the UFO phenomena is real and that we are being visited by creatures or beings
from another planet or another world.These beings do not want to land here because he says,"why
would anybody want to meet with a race whose major occupation is inter-tribal warfare"?They are
physical and not figments of our imagination.They might know how to manipulate time in a fashion
that we don't know yet.
Wayne also believes that Humans were seeded here on planet Earth by extra-terrestrial beings.He
says"we were genetically altered by some Extra-terrestrial race and this race is constantly
checking on how their experiment is doing."
Does the US Military know about the reality of UFO's?
In his personal opinion they do.He has talked to many military people who have been involved in
sighting incidents that have never bothered to report them.Many militer personnel are averse to
report any UFO sightings because of the large amount of paperwork required and the expected
ridicule.Nevertheless,the US government does not want to admit the UFO reality because they
fear the reaction of the population.According to Wayne,past surveys(late 40's)commisioned by
the US military to study the reaction of the population to the reality of the UFO phenomena
have concluded that people will react violently towards the UFO's and their occupants.
Wayne's personal opinion is that the US Military has physical proof of the UFO existence.
Wayne had a friend who worked at the Air Force Materials Laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB
in the late 40's-early 50's.The Materials Lab was given some metal and asked to analyze it.
His friend was told thet this piece of metal came fron a new Russian experimental aircraft
that had crashed.The metal was analyzed and the lab concluded that the piece of metel was
not from this earth.This incident highlt disturbed Waynes frient to the extent that he
eventually became an alcoholic and ruined his career.Unfortunatly this man has passed away
but Wayne trusted his friend and believes his story.
Do you believe there is a spiritual dimension to UFO's?
Wayne responds,"the religion we have on Earth is a crock of BS".He thinks that the little
gray beings are android types and that the preying mantis,tall blonds,and big nose ones
could be flesh and blood.He does not believe these beings are angels.
What do you think of the abductees claims of grays going through walls?
He believes that the aliens that go through walls are using some sort of technology that
changes the vibrational frequency of their own matter and thus allows them to go through
other matter.He does not believe that you have to invoke paranormal phenomena or angelic
beings in order to go through walls.
Do you believe in the reality of the Roswell crash? Why?
He believes that something definitely happened in Roswell.But that there has been so much
dis-information put out and so amny conflicting tales that it is difficult to tell what
really happened.While there too many alleged crash sites,Wayne believes that something did
indeed crash in 1947 in Roswell New Mexico.Wayne does not beleive that the Mogul balloon
project explains away the mystery surround the Roswell UFO crash.
Do you believe the Phillip Corso story on the Roswell debris?
Yes he does.Mainly because in 1972,while he was at Holoman AFB,he was testing a certian
type of technology,and 3 months later there was a quantum leap in technology from one
system to another.Wayne,as an aeronautical engineer,failed to comprehend how earthly
technology could take that much of a leap in a 3 month time frame.
Is there anything mysterious going on in Holloman AFB or
White Sands connected to UFO's?
His personal opinion,without any verification,is that he would not doubt that White Sands
has possossion of UFO's and/or testing them.Why he believes this?As a volunteer at the
Space Museum in Alamogordo,he has interwiewed many people while putting together the Oral
History Program.He obtains a lot of information off the record from people he interwiews.
For example,he learned that at White Sands,during the 60's and 70's,the folks who were
handling the photo theodolite cameras were ordered to stop filming and tracking their test
target and start filming the UFO's whenever ther heard a code-word.These operators,however
never saw the developed films of UFO's because their undeveloped films were always confiscated
by the Air Force(Foreign Technology Division perhaps).
Wayne can be contatced at this address:
Wayne O. Mattson
1901 Ocotillo Drive
Alamogordo,NM 88310
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