What make me so mad, is that I wasted so much time and effort with him. I offered to drive the tire (a set of 4 33" truck tires) to a FedEx hub over an hour from my house (one way), for free, to save him $50-$100 on freight charges. I measured the tread depth per his request before the bid, then after he had won the bid, he did not believe my measurements. To help assure him of the tires, I posted 30 pictures, and re-measured, with photo evidence of the caliper readings in the tires tread in over a dozen places. He then wanted me to guarantee that they will mount & balance, which I agreed to, and then he finally told me to keep them. My response was not too elegant, but you can read it all below.

Emails before the bid ended.
These are on my work computer, I'll post them later today (April 20th, 2002)

Emails after the bid ended.

Wagner, Joseph" wrote:
Mike,
Sorry for the delay. I am not home much, so I don't get my email every day. Thanks for looking into the shipping. I want to confirm the tires' condition before sending payment. Your email said 2 tires are at .42 and 2 are at .49. That is roughly 13/32 and 15/32. Generally, a new tire has 13/32, so I would like to get the correct reading on all four because that seems like a lot of tread for used tires. Please take a new measurement and let me know. A parts place or a tire place should let you use a gauge at no cost.

Also, if the measurement is accurate, I want to confirm that there are no objects protruding from the tread or sides, no plugs, no bulges in the sides, no ripped beads, and no slipped belts, and my acceptance of the merchandise is conditional to a successful mounting and balancing of all four tires.

I will be available at this address all day or you can call me at the number below.
Thanks!
Joseph Wagner
He left me a phone number here, but I removed it because I don't think he'd like me giving it out. I got screwed, but I don't hate the guy.

From: Mike Riley [mailto:mriley@dotnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:32 PM
To: Wagner, Joseph
Subject: Re: Tires

Hi Joe,
I will re-measure the tires for you, (I use a caliper) and send you more detailed pictures. I had these tires with no problems, and know of no defects. However, it seams to me that your are looking for a way out of this purchase. I have no problems with re-listing the tires and selling them to someone else, if you are no longer interested in them. I can not foresee a way of honoring you mounting and balancing conditions. Once they leave my sight, I can't control what happens to them, and I'd hate to end up with no tires and no money. Right now, I own 4 nice tires, and don't want to risk them in a conditional sale, where they get shipped off, and you are unhappy with them for any reason. Unfortunately, I don't know you and I don't want to get screwed, of course I'm sure you feel the same way about me. Let me know what you think. I'll send more pics tonight. I hope we can work this out.
Mike

This is a second email, later that same day, after I got home from work and was able to re-measure the tires, and take & post more pictures
Hello again,
I re-measured the tires a bunch of time, on different spots on all of the tires. All tires measured between .41 and .49 inches of tread depth. To get an idea of how deep a 33" tires tread can be, I measured the tread depth on my year old 33" BF Goodrich Mud Terrains. They measure .65 to over .7". I'm ordering new 35" tires (35x15.5r15 TSL/SX super swampers) which are supposed to have a tread depth of 21/32".
Let me put a correction in here, 35"tsl/sx are 25/32", on 21/32"
I looked at Goodyear's website to try and determine what the tread depth of the GSA tires was when they were new, but had no luck. I have a link to Goodyear's Wrangler GSA tire page on my web site. I have posted 20 more pictures of my tires on my website. Go to this address to see them. www.angelfire.com/wi/mikeswwwsite/ebay.html. If that doesn't let you connect directly to that page, go to www.mikesjeep.com, then click on the first page to get to the index page. When the index page finishes loading (It's big) look for the ebay logo on the left side of the page under the "features" heading. That will take you to the tire page, too.

When I bought my Jeep, these tires are what came on it from the previous owner. I don't know how long he had them. I ran them for about 6 months, before I changed them for a more aggressive tire. My Jeep has never been a daily driver, in fact, in the three yours I've owned it, I don't think I've put 2000 miles on it. I've had the Goodyear tires in my basement for about a year and a half. They are still perfectly good, and never gave me any problems when I had them on the jeep. Now I'm moving up to 35" tires, and I decided to get rid of the Goodyears, and the 33" Mud Terrain tires that are on my Jeep now. This is the first thing I've ever tried to sell on ebay. My brother has bought and sold a bunch on musical stuff via ebay with no problems, so I signed up to sell some of the Jeep stuff I don't use anymore.

I have done all I can to assure you of the quality of these tires. There real is nothing wrong with them. It's a shame you don't live closer, then you could look at them yourself. Let me know if you are going to stick to your bid, or not. I'm going to re-list these tires on Saturday night (April 20th) if I don't here back from you. You should have made these considerations before you placed your bid. If you back out of the deal, I'll have to pay another fee to relist these tires. I still hope this sale can be completed and look forward to hearing from you. I'm sorry I can not agree to any conditions, you will have to pay me in full before I'll ship you these tires. If the freight company damages them, they are insured for $100 each. If you'd like more insurance, let me know and I'll get more, at your expense. Please check out my website and let me know if you want any more info.

Mike Riley

P.S. I'm not going to pay for a long distance call to you. I've already spent the money on ebay listing the tires, and spent the time with the detailed web page with over 30 pictures! If you want to talk to me in person you can reach me at work (920) 922-7711 from 7:15am to 4:30pm.

"Wagner, Joseph" wrote:

Mike,
I am sorry you think I am trying to get out of this. Let me put it this way, I need tires for my jeep and these are what I am looking for at a fair price. However, I want to make sure that I am getting what is advertised. It is obvious to me that your initial reading is incorrect, and if I receive four tires with only 6/32-8/32 of tread remaining, I am sure that it would be difficult for me to get my money back. Also, these are used tires; if they don't balance because of a busted belt, they are no good to me, and I will want my money back. Just if you bought a computer part or a TV, if you plug it in and it doesn't work you want a refund. If you are selling these tires "as is" then I am not interested. I don't mean to sound rude, but I work hard for my money and I don't want to lose $400 for not being careful. If you agree send me the measurements and I will have the money to you within 5 minutes.

Let me know.

Joe

From: Mike Riley [mailto:mriley@dotnet.com]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:03 PM
To: Wagner, Joseph
Subject: Re: Tires

Hi,

Did you go to the web address I gave you with the 30 pictures on it? https://www.angelfire.com/wi/mikeswwwsite/ebay.html . There are about a dozen with caliper readings of them that you can see. I never got a reading less than.41" . This reading is not hard to believe for a used 33" tire. The 33" Mud Terrain tire I have on my Jeep, which are a year old, have over .65" of tread depth. New 33" super swamper TSL/SX have 23/32" of tread and 35" have 25/32" according to there website.

I will guarantee that they will balance, and are in the condition I say they are. However, I will not be responsible for any freight charges. I have been more than fair here, but I am out of patience with you. You should have asked all of these questions and been sure of your purchase before you bid! It says that right on ebay. This is the best I can do. Take it or leave it.

Mike

Sent: Fri, 19th Apr, 2002 16:04:11 - 0400
From: "Wagner, Joseph"
To: 'Mike Riley'

Keep them.

Subject: Re: Tires
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:48:54 -0500
From: Mike Riley
To: "Wagner, Joseph"

Fuck You!

That was my less then freindly reply, maybe I went a bit too far, but I should have taken my brothers advice. When I showed him the first email were Joe was now asking for "conditions" after he had already won the bid, he said "tell him to take them, or you'll give him a negative reveiw. He should have had all his questions answered before he even bid. That is one of Ebays requirements!" I thought I'd give the guy a chance, I personally feel that I bent over backwards for the guy. I offered a money back guarantee of the tires condition, and he still back out! What more could I have done?

Let me know what you think, America.
mike@mikesjeep.com